"White Spirit" - (British People please)

[B92 8NW]

Hello all,

On Top Gear they once gave a recipe for Bio-diesel by adding "White Spirit" to Canola/Vegetable Oil. Thing is I have NFI what "White Spirit" is.

"Naphtha (CAS No.: 8032-32-4 (http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0664.html), 8030-30-6 (http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0438.html), 8002-05-9 (http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0492.html); aka petroleum ether (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_ether), white spirit (though in the UK white spirit is something completely different), Ligroin; VM&P Naphtha (CAS No. 64742-89-8); Varnish Makers and Painter's Naphtha [1] (http://www.brown.edu/Administration/EHS/resources/NPG/npgd0664.htm); Benzin; Petroleum Naphtha, Naphtha ASTM, Petroleum Spirits, shellite, ronsonol; not to be confused with Naphthalene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naphthalene)) is a group of various liquid hydrocarbon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrocarbon) intermediate refined products of varying boiling point ranges from 20 to 75 °C (68 to 167 °F), which may be derived from oil or from coal tar, and perhaps other primary sources." - WIKIPEDIA.

OK. So to Australians White Spirit is Naphtha which we commonly call Shellite.

But in a British Context (see red bit), what is White Spirit? I've been told its equivalent is Mineral Turpentine.

Any ideas?

PS. Don't panic this is not going into a Land Rover. $2,000.00 later and my Disco will never see Bio-diesel again.

[Rosco]

AFAIK it's dry cleaning fluid here. Definitely not Shellite, which is purely the original unleaded petrol ... from way back.

Cheers

[B92 8NW]

More from WIKI

"Mineral Spirits also called Stoddard solvent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoddard_solvent) [CAS 8052-41-3][1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_spirits#_note-0), is a petroleum distilate commonly used as a paint thinner and mild solvent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solvent). In Europe, it is referred to as white spirit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_spirit)".

Does herein lie the correct answer:confused:

[B92 8NW]

Another clue... http://www.palacechemicals.co.uk/Solvents.htm

"SOMETIMES CALLED MINERAL TURPENTINE, WHITE SPIRIT IS THE BEST SOLVENT FOR THINNING ALKYD BASED OIL PAINTS. CONFORMS TO BS245"


http://fuel.papo-art.com/ - This explains international names of fuels.

UK White Spirits = Mineral Turpentine
AU White Spirits = Dry Cleaning Fluid (cheers Rosco)

[5teve]

AFAIK it's dry cleaning fluid here. Definitely not Shellite, which is purely the original unleaded petrol ... from way back.

Cheers

deffo not dry cleaning fluid....

see here http://www.ec.gc.ca/nopp/docs/rpt/degrease/en/problem.cfm

its trichloroethylene used for dry cleaning

but always willing to contradisct myself.... see here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_spirit

thanks

Steve

[numpty]

AFAIK White Spirit is Pure Gum Turpentine as opposed to Mineral Turpentine. Commonly used to thin artists paints. Also a good mix in wood finishes as it melts beeswax.

It is plant based not petroleum based.

And I'm not a Pom:D

[B92 8NW]

The next question I have is does anybody know what the Mobil Equivalent to Naphtha (Shellite) is? I need to buy bulk Naphtha and as I have a MobilCard it needs to be Mobil. Their Shellite equivalent "Mobilite" hasn't been available for ages. I think its now called "Mobil D3135 Naphtha"

[RonMcGr]

AFAIK White Spirit is Pure Gum Turpentine as opposed to Mineral Turpentine. Commonly used to thin artists paints. Also a good mix in wood finishes as it melts beeswax.

It is plant based not petroleum based.

Now that sounds more like it.
I can remember the oldies having it on the farm in the 50's :D

[dobbo]

Heres me thinking Bio was just a bit of chip fat and moonshine?

[Frenchie]

I thought it was gin. :eek:

[dobbo]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2007/11/18.jpg

I'm sorry but someone was bound to put it up eventually




I think Numpty is right it's mineral turps

[isuzurover]

Heres me thinking Bio was just a bit of chip fat and moonshine?

REAL Biodiesel is transesterified fat or oil. Made using oil/fat methanol and either NaOH (sodium hydroxide) OR KOH (potassium hydroxide). The "trans-etsterification" process breaks up the fat molecules into smaller molecules, which make the properties close to normal diesel. A by-product of the conversion is glycerine, which needs to be removed, as it precipitates out in contact with water and could clog filters.

Naptha flakes (mothballs) or pure naptha, can be added to petrol or diesel to boost octane and clean the fuel system. Many "injector cleaners" (petrol and diesel) are mostly naptha.

But to answer the original question:

Common names: white spirit, Stoddard solvent.

White spirit is a mixture of saturated aliphatic and alicyclic
C7 to C12 hydrocarbons with a maximum content of 25% of C7 to C12
alkyl aromatic hydrocarbons.

Molecular formulae:

CnH2n+2 ( n-alkanes and isoalkanes)
CnH2n (cycloalkanes)a
CnH2n-6 (aromatics), n > 6

Relative molecular mass:

150 (Approximate average value)
92-170 (for single constituents)

Common synonyms:

Lacknafta (Sweden); Lakkibensiini (Finland); Mineral Spirit;
Mineral Turpentine; Mineralsk Terpentin (Denmark); Mineralterpentin
(Sweden); Petroleum Spirits; Solvent Naphtha; Stoddard solvent;
Terpentin (Denmark); Testbenzin (Germany); Turpentine Substitute.

[mcrover]

What he said lol :D

[rick130]

The next question I have is does anybody know what the Mobil Equivalent to Naphtha (Shellite) is? I need to buy bulk Naphtha and as I have a MobilCard it needs to be Mobil. Their Shellite equivalent "Mobilite" hasn't been available for ages. I think its now called "Mobil D3135 Naphtha"

Joel, I get my White Spirit in 20l drums through the Mobil distributor and it's made by Reochem in Brisbane. It also says on the label 'Turpentine Substitute'. It isn't mineral turps as it's definitely 'cleaner' or less oily than any mineral turpentine I've used.

[CraigE]

AFAIK White Spirit is Pure Gum Turpentine as opposed to Mineral Turpentine. Commonly used to thin artists paints. Also a good mix in wood finishes as it melts beeswax.

It is plant based not petroleum based.

And I'm not a Pom:D
This is correct and most Bunnings will stock White Spirit.

[isuzurover]

Joel, I get my White Spirit in 20l drums through the Mobil distributor and it's made by Reochem in Brisbane. It also says on the label 'Turpentine Substitute'. It isn't mineral turps as it's definitely 'cleaner' or less oily than any mineral turpentine I've used.

Turpentine (or gum turpentine) was originallly made from plants. Mineral Turpentine was supposed to be an equivalent (but not quite the same), made from mineral (crude) oil. I believe that Terpentine Substitute may be a blend that more closely approximates original (plant-derived) turpentine.

[gromit]

I think that White Spirit is either mineral turpentine or something very similar.
When living in the UK some years ago White Spirit was much cheaper than Turpentine and was generally used for thinning paints, cleaning brushes etc. I don't think I ever used genuine Turpentine.

Due to EEC regulations there may be issues using the word Turpentine if the product isn't actually Turpentine, hence maybe the name White Spirit.

As an example of the daft EEC regulations there was an issue with 'baked beans' because they aren't actually baked therefore you can't call them baked beans !

Gromit

[Bigbjorn]

As far as I can tell mineral turpentine and white spirits (Shellite) are quite different products of oil refiners. Turps has an oily feel and is less volatile than Shellite. Other Turpentine come from pine trees as far as I know, and I have not seen it for years and years. Maybe artists still use it, but I cant remember seeing a painter and decorator use it since I was a lad. They thin and clean up oil base paints with mineral turps. I use Shellite in a Coleman pressure lamp and a Coleman three burner stove when camping.

[rick130]

As far as I can tell mineral turpentine and white spirits (Shellite) are quite different products of oil refiners. Turps has an oily feel and is less volatile than Shellite. Other Turpentine come from pine trees as far as I know, and I have not seen it for years and years. Maybe artists still use it, but I cant remember seeing a painter and decorator use it since I was a lad. They thin and clean up oil base paints with mineral turps. I use Shellite in a Coleman pressure lamp and a Coleman three burner stove when camping.

well, that's two of us now with the same observation.

White Spirit, at least the stuff I use is what is used in most commercial parts washers, and according to an old friend of mine, the only solvent that should be used when re-building an auto tranny as it leaves no residue on evaporation.
FWIW, the tiny little hardware store adjacent to the General Store in Murrurundi stocks Gum Turpentine as well as the mineral stuff. ;)

[numpty]

As far as I can tell mineral turpentine and white spirits (Shellite) are quite different products of oil refiners. Turps has an oily feel and is less volatile than Shellite. Other Turpentine come from pine trees as far as I know, and I have not seen it for years and years. Maybe artists still use it, but I cant remember seeing a painter and decorator use it since I was a lad. They thin and clean up oil base paints with mineral turps. I use Shellite in a Coleman pressure lamp and a Coleman three burner stove when camping.

As has been said (by me);) Gum Turpentine (white spirit) and Mineral Turps are two completely different animals and are both available at most hardware stores, the former in smaller capacity containers.

[Rosco]

I think Numpty is right it's mineral turps

Nope ..... mineral turps will leave an oily residue. White spirits evaporates, much the same as shellite and leaves naught behind, bar a slight odour.

[B92 8NW]

Mineral Turpentine and White Spirits (Shellite) are indeed two different things altogether, so yes Brian and Rick your observations are quite right. My only point of confusion was the British use of the word White Spirits, meaning Mineral Turpentine. Funny how the two countries are separated by a common language:eek:. I was told the only thing to use rebuilding autoboxes is Shellsol X55 Solvent:p.

For my benefit the stove I use is multifuel so I just chuck in any fraction of distillation from heavy gas oil (44 carbon atoms per molecule) to Naphthas:D (Damn the Swedes know how to make a nice stove.). It saves me putting the wrong fuel in and cremating myself.

[gromit]

White Spirit is used as a Turpentine Substitute (which confirms my experience in the UK).
See link to the Diggers MSDS sheet & Wikipedia, seems to have also been used as a less volatile dry cleaning solvent from late 1920's to late 1950's (if you believe everything you read on Wikipedia).

http://www.diggersaust.com.au/files/White%20Spirit.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_spirit

[redrover3]

This could be a thread hijack but what was the $2000 damage to your engine from using bio?
Tony

[B92 8NW]

This could be a thread hijack but what was the $2000 damage to your engine from using bio?
Tony

1. Lift Pump - Hole, leaking
2. Injectors x4 - 2x broken springs, 1x broken needle, all needles worn beyond tolerance (none of the injectors were "firing" when tested, just leaking)
3. Injection Pump various seals leaking
4. Fuel pipes - internal corrosion from residual corrosive elements of Bio-diesel (ie lye etc)
5. Leaking lines (yes they were Viton, they still shrank)

The Biodiesel B100 was to the federal standard and bought from a proper fuel station

(allegedly under the pressure in the injectors it loses its claimed greater lubricity than normal diesel. Evidence to show poor lubricant to injector parts was clear.)

[AndyK]

Hi there from sunny (!!!) County Durham,

turpentine is a plant derived liquid whereas white spirit is a cheap substitute derived from petroleum - they are very definitely different.

White spirit is the distillate from 115 deg C to 180 deg C according to a british recycling web site.

Hope this helps!

Andy

[DEFENDERZOOK]

i think the closest thing to white spirits you will find easily......will be prep-sol.....
AKA known as wax and grease remover.......available from automotive and panel supply stores......

[numpty]

I stand by my original comments.

The original White Spirit is Gum Turpentine, whatever you want to call it now. Mineral turpentine is a petroleum derivative.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

X55 is the ducks nuts,,,

just remember to put the cap back on----:angel: