85/ 140 gear oil sooo much better!.

[sumo]

about 6mths ago i changed the deefer transfer case , rear diff (salisbury) and front diff from 90 grade gear oil to 85/140 mobil gear lube.

Man! what a difference, noticed it straight away, but was a bit unsure whether it be good or bad in the long term. But after about 15000ks i say its all ;)good, just so much quieter, especially on long highway runs, bugger all noise out of the fransfer box, where as before it had that famous landy scream after a few hrs travelling. i would recomend the heavier grade any day.

cheers Sumo:D

[B92 8NW]

about 6mths ago i changed the deefer transfer case , rear diff (salisbury) and front diff from 90 grade gear oil to 85/140 mobil gear lube.

Man! what a difference, noticed it straight away, but was a bit unsure whether it be good or bad in the long term. But after about 15000ks i say its all ;)good, just so much quieter, especially on long highway runs, bugger all noise out of the fransfer box, where as before it had that famous landy scream after a few hrs travelling. i would recomend the heavier grade any day.

cheers Sumo:D

I'll let a lubrication expert say whether its good or bad in the long term, but that is some pretty psycho stuff - Mobilube HD. It's has the highest KV @ 40 of any Mobil Gear Oil, 328 cSt.

With the amount of diff wear and T/C wear at 305,000 thats likely to exist, I might give it a run, provided:

a) its not deleterious; and
b) my disco ever moves again.:D

[Blknight.aus]

just watch the temperature and speed that you operate the vehicle at as the 85/140 tends to make the box work significantly hotter.

Not so much a problem in the series as they arent real quick but there is the potential due to the generally lower pourability of 85/140 that the outputshaft of the gearbox might suffer increased wear Especially while the tcase is cold.

[rick130]

<snip>
...... but there is the potential due to the generally lower pourability of 85/140 that the outputshaft of the gearbox might suffer increased wear Especially while the tcase is cold.

that's about the only downside I can think of in the t/case.
Experiments have shown that some of the very heavy mineral based diff oils can take minutes to reach critical areas at not very low temps.
There never used to be an official range between SAE 90 and SAE 140, and the differences in actual viscosity can be huge, so some blenders started offering offering 75W-110, which made sense, and so the ranges were split.

SAE 90 ranges from 13.5 to 18.4 cSt @ 100*
SAE 110 ranges from 18.5 to 23.9 cSt @ 100*
SAE 140 ranges from 24 to 32.4 cSt @ 100*


I'm currently running a mix of synthetic 80w-140 and 75w-90 in the t/case.
Interesting that some manufacturers are now offering 'mid weight' gear oils.

In the past, prior to the seals being replaced I just threw in whatever I had on hand spare, anything from the trickest 75w-90 to basic 80-90 EP fluid as it found it's way out fairly quickly.
When the box and case was apart six months ago there was absolutely no wear on the input shaft splines.

Sals rear ends almost demand a 75w/80w-140 in summer when working hard, eg. towing as they run very hot. Rover diffs run significantly cooler and so IMO nothing above an SAE 90 is necessary.

[Slunnie]

Just to check I'm interpreting this correctly, for an LT230 I should stay with 75-90 and for the Rover diff likewise, but it doesn't matter if I've got 80w-140 or the normal 75w-90?

[Bigbjorn]

Just to check I'm interpreting this correctly, for an LT230 I should stay with 75-90 and for the Rover diff likewise, but it doesn't matter if I've got 80w-140 or the normal 75w-90?

Castrol recommend VMX80 for the LT230

[rick130]

Castrol recommend VMX80 for the LT230

and they're wrong if they do.


Factory fill these days is a Texaco semi-synthetic 75w-90 GL5
In the past it's been anything from SAE 80EP from -35*C up to 30*C to SAE 90EP from -10*C up to 50*+, so a 75W-90 GL5 covers that nicely.

Generally, you will get better gear protection with a heavier grade oil, (This is from a bloke who's job is blending industrial oils, and has been to seminars and lectures on gear/diff lubrication with some of the brightest in US lube blending) but thicker isn't always better. As with anything, a lot depends on the quality of the lube too.
I wouldn't dump a good 75w-90 in a t/case just to add some 85w-140 whatever. It could be a backward step, and you have to use a bit of common sense.

FWIW, I nearly burnt the skin off my hand one day when I just touched the Sals after a hard run, I should have put a thermometer on it just to see how hot it was, whereas the front diff I could hold my hand on easily.

[B92 8NW]

Castrol recommend VMX80 for the LT230

No they dont, they recommend EPX 80W90, it clearly says that right here. (http://www.datateck.com.au/lube/castr_au/default.asp?Section=2&Make=75&Model=2193)

[Wortho]

I usually put Penrite 80w/90 hypoid gear oil in the transfer and diffs, am i doing the right thing there or not?, It has started to whine a bit. Gearbox i usually put Penrite 75w/80 manual transmission oil, i give the old girl a pretty tough time offroad so usually change transmission oils every 10k and check them weekly. Is there anything i should be doing different?

[rick130]

<snip> Is there anything i should be doing different?

I don't think so.

[Bigbjorn]

No they dont, they recommend EPX 80W90, it clearly says that right here. (http://www.datateck.com.au/lube/castr_au/default.asp?Section=2&Make=75&Model=2193)

'phone their technical reps in Mlbourne and ask. They say
Syntrans for the gearbox and VMX80 for the transfer.

[B92 8NW]

'phone their technical reps in Mlbourne and ask. They say
Syntrans for the gearbox and VMX80 for the transfer.

There is better stuff than Castrol around, I wouldn't waste the money phoning them:)

[JDNSW]

.........
FWIW, I nearly burnt the skin off my hand one day when I just touched the Sals after a hard run, I should have put a thermometer on it just to see how hot it was, whereas the front diff I could hold my hand on easily.

Interesting point, and relevant to the comments in other threads lambasting Landrover for sticking to spiral bevel diffs rather than using hypoid gears - as well as having a larger tooth contact area (everything else being equal), the hypoid diff has more sliding action, and hence more severe lubrication requirements, and loses more power, and gets hotter. Maybe Landrover has some reasons for sticking to the spiral bevel?

John

[Bigbjorn]

Interesting point, and relevant to the comments in other threads lambasting Landrover for sticking to spiral bevel diffs rather than using hypoid gears - as well as having a larger tooth contact area (everything else being equal), the hypoid diff has more sliding action, and hence more severe lubrication requirements, and loses more power, and gets hotter. Maybe Landrover has some reasons for sticking to the spiral bevel?

John

Spot on, JD. Hypoid gearing was developed to lower the driveline in passenger cars so a smaller driveline hump was causing less interference with passenger space as cars got lower in the 1930's. The converse is amboid gearing in which the pinion contacts the crown wheel above the centre line. This is, to my knowledge used only in some heavy truck tandem drives to reduce driveline angularity as the intermediate shaft exits the power divider on the forward diff and drives the rear diff. Hypoid/amboid does have more sliding friction than spiral bevel which in turn has more friction than straight cut bevel gears. The reason for spiral bevel gearing was to reduce the noise made by straight bevel gears which emit an annoying whine in service.

[Slunnie]

It also produces a stronger diff for the same given size.

[JDNSW]

It also produces a stronger diff for the same given size.

Precisely! But as I comment above, you don't get something for nothing, and the penalty in this case is more friction, making for lower drive efficiency, more critical lubrication, and higher operating temperatures.

A design decision that the manufacturer has to make, influenced, no doubt, by what they have on the books, what they need in other applications, what their available tooling can make, etc etc.

John

[Slunnie]

The other thing that I had wondered about hypoid diffs, is as they become more like screws, do they also increase what would seem to be an engine braking effect as the crown wheel loses its ability to drive the pinion during overrun.

[rick130]

well there is more friction involved as this is what generates the heat, so probably.

It's worth noting that the pure race transaxle manufacturers in the world, eg Xtrac, Hewland, Emco, etc., if using a longitudinal gearbox use a spiral bevel CWP.
So all your Formula Fords, Formula Three, GP II, F1 and Champ cars, etc, use a spiral bevel diff.
More power transfer/less heat.

[rick130]

<snip>
The converse is amboid gearing in which the pinion contacts the crown wheel above the centre line. This is, to my knowledge used only in some heavy truck tandem drives to reduce driveline angularity as the intermediate shaft exits the power divider on the forward diff and drives the rear diff. <snip>

the front diff on a few 4WD's, inc Nissan's GQ and GU Patrol and Toyota's 78/79/80/100 series solid front axles use this, as did Ford in a couple of years of the F100/150 ('78/'79 ??) with a Dana 44 and you can get some Dana 60's in high pinion, too.

[Fausto79]

Sorry to reopne such an old thread but in the factory manual it states a dexron II ATF for the gearbox. is this correct? seems a bit too runny putting that stuff in a gearbox. is this correct? is an atf about the same viscosity as a 90EP gear oil?

[PAT303]

I ran ATF in my R380 for 400,000k's. Pat

[JDNSW]

Like all (I think) Landrover gearboxes from the LT95 on, your gearbox has a small oil pump on the front. This will fail if asked to pump an excessive viscosity oil such as cold EP90 (if you live in a hot climate you will probably get away with it, but why not stick to what is recommended?). If the pump fails, there will be no overt symptom, just that the gearbox will have a fairly short life, depending on how hard it is worked.

John

[Fausto79]

Pardon me if i'm wrong but doesnt my 1996 Disco 1 have an R380 box? Would what you said about the pump still apply to this?

[JDNSW]

Pardon me if i'm wrong but doesnt my 1996 Disco 1 have an R380 box? Would what you said about the pump still apply to this?
Yes.

John

[luke68]

Around 1999/2000 LandRover updated to MTF94 from the auto trains oil..There is a list on here somewhere that let's you know other brands.

[rick130]

Sorry to reopne such an old thread but in the factory manual it states a dexron II ATF for the gearbox. is this correct? seems a bit too runny putting that stuff in a gearbox. is this correct? is an atf about the same viscosity as a 90EP gear oil?


Pardon me if i'm wrong but doesnt my 1996 Disco 1 have an R380 box? Would what you said about the pump still apply to this?

Have a look in 'The Good Oil' forum on here, lots and lots of info and FWIW the corrects spec for the R380 is a manual transmission fluid (MTF) meeting a 75W-80 viscosity. Land Rover issued a revised spec in a Technical Bulletin around 1997 and it superseded the earlier oil specification, and although most manuals don't reflect this, they are wrong.

In Australia, particularly in summer a 75W-85 works very well too.

[Fausto79]

Have a look in 'The Good Oil' forum on here, lots and lots of info and FWIW the corrects spec for the R380 is a manual transmission fluid (MTF) meeting a 75W-80 viscosity. Land Rover issued a revised spec in a Technical Bulletin around 1997 and it superseded the earlier oil specification, and although most manuals don't reflect this, they are wrong.

In Australia, particularly in summer a 75W-85 works very well too.


thanks rick, i ended up looking up the good oil forum and reading up a bit about it so im even more confused :)

basicaly ive always been happy with penrite oils and found good oils for different parts all that match specs from them. i was going to buy a few different drums but found the receipts from previous owner and the oils were done quite recently.

i pulled off the filler plugs just to make sure and the oil in there looks pretty clean and is quite full so ill leave it for now, but ill be using these guys when im ready:

transfer and diffs
Penrite Oil - A Better Class Of Oil (http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products.php?id_categ=4&id_products=371)

gearbox
Penrite Oil - A Better Class Of Oil (http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products.php?id_categ=4&id_products=375)

engine
Penrite Oil - A Better Class Of Oil (http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products.php?id_categ=1&id_fuel_type=3&id_products=2)

i hope no1 will argue with me on this one coz i wont listen

[wsp]

Thanks Rick

[ATH]

I haven't done a lot fiddling with the oils on the Puma as it's still under warranty, but it feels to me on that first run in the morning as if it's much smoother all round.
Gear changes are very good and smooth with no slight "gnashing of teeth" and the engine even seems quieter.
Wouldn't this indicate that a thicker oil would be better especially on long runs during a hot Summer?
AlanH.

PS. The more I read about the right oil for the engine the more I got confused especially when the recommended oil wasn't freely available at local stockists.

[Sprint]

I'll let a lubrication expert say whether its good or bad in the long term, but that is some pretty psycho stuff - Mobilube HD. It's has the highest KV @ 40 of any Mobil Gear Oil, 328 cSt.

With the amount of diff wear and T/C wear at 305,000 thats likely to exist, I might give it a run, provided:

a) its not deleterious; and


gah?

[rick130]

Wouldn't this indicate that a thicker oil would be better especially on long runs during a hot Summer?
AlanH.

No.

If it's still the OE/factory fill oil, it's a 75W-90 anyway, but a pretty good full synthetic 'special' from Castrol.

[uninformed]

year I brew my own special blend in my lab:

X amount of Husqvarna Xp + X amount of maxima 927......mixed at the right ratio is actually creates more power

[rick130]

year I brew my own special blend in my lab:

X amount of Husqvarna Xp + X amount of maxima 927......mixed at the right ratio is actually creates more power


Go away and stop giving out my secret recipe......

[goingbush]

I usually put Penrite 80w/90 hypoid gear oil in the transfer and diffs, am i doing the right thing there or not?, It has started to whine a bit. Gearbox i usually put Penrite 75w/80 manual transmission oil, i give the old girl a pretty tough time offroad so usually change transmission oils every 10k and check them weekly. Is there anything i should be doing different?

You check them WEEKLY ??? Why, does it leak that badly ?


On oils I use Castrol Syntrans in my R380 and Syntrax in my LT230 ,
The r380 has a remote finned cooler about 600ml extra capacity and the LT230 had a rover canada sump, They both run as cool as a cucumber - (Im towing a Van full time now.) any Hypoid 85w 140 in the Sals and any diff oil in the front with some molybond & moreys mix in the CV's, Td5 runs HPR 5 full syn