Anyone know the max tow ball weight for 110 landrovers?

[Taz]

Hoping someone can help..

Seeking max tow ball weight (according to landrover) for

V8/izuzu County
Tdi Deefer
Td5 Deefer
2007 Deefer

ta.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

The last two are 3500kg braked. :)

[hiline]

towball weight is 150kgs on my 2000 TD5 130

[camel_landy]

Hoping someone can help..

Seeking max tow ball weight (according to landrover) for

V8/izuzu County
Tdi Deefer
Td5 Deefer
2007 Deefer

ta.

You might want ti clarify if it's the trailer nose weight or the total weight of the trailer that you're after.

M

[Blknight.aus]

Varies according to you tow hitch....

the vehicle (all LWB shed types after the stage 1) is capable of hauling a 4 ton trailer with a maximum 250kg downforce limit.
However.

Most tow packs will slice that back to 3500kg and 150kg downfoce.

Depending on local regulations the vehicle will only be written up as able to deal with the local legal limits for the vehicles class.

What you can tow with it is the lesser of all of the above....

Big red is 3.5T with 250kg downforce.

[Taz]

Thanks guys,

Yes sorry - I'm interested in the maximum legal down force on the tow bar/ball/hitch, not the ATM that the vehicle can legally pull.

D1 = 150kg
RRC = 150kg
D2 = 250kg (need to confirm)
110's = ???

Blknight - are you saying the vehicle manufacturing limit is 250kg for all 110's after stage 1 ? And why would local regulations restrict the down force on the tow bar beyond manufactures recommendation?

cheers,
Taz.

[Bigbjorn]

Thanks guys,


Blknight - are you saying the vehicle manufacturing limit is 250kg for all 110's after stage 1 ? And why would local regulations restrict the down force on the tow bar beyond manufactures recommendation?

cheers,
Taz.


Because local regulations are drawn by gullible bureaucrats, vote counting politicians, and self-serving police forces, and often bear no resemblance to reality.

[Blknight.aus]

Blknight - are you saying the vehicle manufacturing limit is 250kg for all 110's after stage 1 ? And why would local regulations restrict the down force on the tow bar beyond manufactures recommendation?

cheers,
Taz.


yep, even the series rovers can deal with 250kg downforce but they are only rated to 2t draw....

the regulations change over time to reflect "aparent" safety. get a couple of idiots who dont know what they're doing that have accidents with 150kg of downforce and then they'll probabley change it to 75 KG max....

[incisor]

it is based on what the manufacturers submit or plate the vehicle at.

coroners and therefore the insurance industry go with that value and have been enforcing more diligently of late.

[LandyAndy]

Hi Taz
From my D2 tow hitch.
max trailer nose weight 250kg,max trailer mass 3500kg.
If you are looking at a Defender,let me know.Can give you a ph no of one for sale in Perth.2002 extreme,95000ks,unmarked dark blue,saw it in Williams the other day,looks real neat.
Belongs to an older bloke,bought it to tour but he has trouble parking it and his missus has trouble getting in and out.
Send me a PM if you want contact details.
Andrew

[malleefowl]

The plate in my towbar on 98 defender 110 says 4000kg with a MAX static ball weight of 120kg and a message to refer to the manufacturer" guidelines

[Redback]

The plate in my towbar on 98 defender 110 says 4000kg with a MAX static ball weight of 120kg and a message to refer to the manufacturer" guidelines

The 4000kg max tow weight is only when the LandRover factory electric brakes are fitted and it's a tandum trailer, this is for all LandRovers.

All TD5/V8 Rovers DEF/Discos also RR/RRS/D3 too are rated to tow 3500kg with a max ball weight of 250kg, they are also rated to tow 4000kg if fitted with the LR electric braking system for a tandum trailer only.

Baz.

[slug_burner]

HR tow bar is rated to 3500 kg. I believe this to be the case for all rigs that use a 50 mm towball.

[p38arover]

I looked at a tow hitch on a Rangie the other day. It was made in WA by Parkside Towbars. It was a Disco bar Model HC17 (I think - maybe HU17) - it was placarded as rated for 4000 kg max load and 200 kg down weight.

[Taz]

Thanks Ron
I think your on to something... I just found a reference in the workshop manual for the '89 Rangie that says maximum tongue weight should not exceed 250kg !

The refence (general specification data) is from an pdf workshop manual I found online somewhere that I think is originally from the north america market.

[mark2]

Regardless of the towbar rating, a 200/300 TDi towing 3-4t is going to be dangerous because of the lack of power.............

[Dougal]

Regardless of the towbar rating, a 200/300 TDi towing 3-4t is going to be dangerous because of the lack of power.............

How does lack of power make it dangerous?
Power/weight is still better than the average 40ton truck. Chassis, suspension, brakes and loading are safety concerns, power isn't.

[p38arover]

I'm sure that my old '83 RR had a weight limit of 12 tons in low range towing. I remember reading it somewhere in the handbook or workshop manual.

[mark2]

How does lack of power make it dangerous?
Power/weight is still better than the average 40ton truck. Chassis, suspension, brakes and loading are safety concerns, power isn't.

If there was no other traffic on the road, I might agree with you, however the inability get through an intersection in a safe time, the total lack of any reserve power, the inability to maintain a reasonable speed on any sort of a gradient, long queues of traffic following are all unsafe/undesirable situations.

Comparing with a truck is not realistic due to gearing, torque and the fact that a truck is designed for this purpose. Most modern trucks dont hold up traffic, A 2.5 liter powered Land Rover towing 3 or 4 t definitely will. Not sure what would be worse, being stuck behind it or driving it!

[Dougal]

I'm sure that my old '83 RR had a weight limit of 12 tons in low range towing. I remember reading it somewhere in the handbook or workshop manual.

8 ton in emergency situations at a maximum speed of 30km/h.:o

[twitchy]

You might want ti clarify if it's the trailer nose weight or the total weight of the trailer that you're after.

M

He want's the MAX TOWBALL WEIGHT

[Dougal]

If there was no other traffic on the road, I might agree with you, however the inability get through an intersection in a safe time, the total lack of any reserve power, the inability to maintain a reasonable speed on any sort of a gradient, long queues of traffic following are all unsafe/undesirable situations.

Comparing with a truck is not realistic due to gearing, torque and the fact that a truck is designed for this purpose. Most modern trucks dont hold up traffic, A 2.5 liter powered Land Rover towing 3 or 4 t definitely will. Not sure what would be worse, being stuck behind it or driving it!

I don't see your point.
Any towing vehicle is a slug. When comparing the power/weight of a landrover towing at capacity (say 130hp with 6 ton all up) it is far better than the modern trucks which you claim don't hold up traffic (500hp with 44ton all up).
It is power to weight that defines your speed uphill and accelerating on the flat.

Watch a loaded truck crossing an intersection, have a calendar ready to time it.
Follow a loaded truck up a hill. See if you need low range to go that slow.

IMO towing or anyone else driving below the speed limit is not a safety concern. The safety concern are the people who pass in downright dangerous locations.
It is not the slow vehicle which creates a line of traffic, it's the person second in line who can't or won't pass. This means the third person has two vehicles to pass, a significant physical and psychological barrier.

[mark2]

I don't see your point.
Any towing vehicle is a slug. When comparing the power/weight of a landrover towing at capacity (say 130hp with 6 ton all up) it is far better than the modern trucks which you claim don't hold up traffic (500hp with 44ton all up).
It is power to weight that defines your speed uphill and accelerating on the flat.

Watch a loaded truck crossing an intersection, have a calendar ready to time it.
Follow a loaded truck up a hill. See if you need low range to go that slow.

IMO towing or anyone else driving below the speed limit is not a safety concern. The safety concern are the people who pass in downright dangerous locations.
It is not the slow vehicle which creates a line of traffic, it's the person second in line who can't or won't pass. This means the third person has two vehicles to pass, a significant physical and psychological barrier.

I'm not sure what your point is either. If its trying to justify the inconsiderate holding up of traffic by using an underpowered tow vehicle, you still havent convinced me.

My point is simply that there are far better tow vehicles out there for a 3 or 4 ton load than a 2.5 TDI. A manufacturers rating of 3.5t does not mean this is a realistic, safe or considerate proposition in modern traffic.

[Blknight.aus]

gee Id hate to be you behind an army convoy....

mogs have less ponies than a tweaked tdi300 and empty weigh more than a fully loaded landrover with 3t of trailer behind it....

and macks only have 275hp which is about 2.5times more power but they weigh 6 times as much....

lets not forget the overladen towing 6x6 workshops....

Having a slow vehicle isnt dangerous, Idiots who dont know the road rules or have any common curteosy are.

[mark2]

Actually I've never had a problem with army convoys. I spend a LOT of time on the Bruce Highway and so does the army, on the way to Wide Bay, Shoalwater etc and for the most part they maintain reasonable speeds and are very considerate of other road users. Neither do I have a problem with trucks, Series 1's etc when they are also driven considerately. I'm still not convinced by power to weight comparisons as torque and gearing make up for lower power figures when it comes to pulling a load.

I cant tell you how many times I've seen amateurs in underpowered tow rigs try to speed up on overtaking lanes for some perverse reason or fail to pull over or slow down when appropriate to let traffic past. Consideration goes both ways.

Anyway, regardless of what individuals views are on how far courtesy extends to other road users, the main point is that a small capacity diesel towing 3.5 tonnes on public roads is less than desirable for many reasons which should be obvious.

[incisor]

Idiots who dont know the road rules or have any common curteosy are.

here here..

[Dougal]

I'm still not convinced by power to weight comparisons as torque and gearing make up for lower power figures when it comes to pulling a load.

You need to work on your physics then.
The power you have on tap and the weight your pulling defines absolutely your hill climbing speed.
Poor gearing can only reduce that speed, not improve it.

[rick130]

anyway, back to the original Q.

11/98 Defender, first registered '99 has a 4000kg max rated towbar, with a max. static towball weight of 120kg as per the rating plate. OE Oz towbar.

This may have been retrospectively revised to fall into line with the TD5, as most manufacturers were petitioned to increase them in the last few years as the towball weight should be 10% of the rated towing capacity, and none of the big 4WD's were, making most technically illegal towing what people put behind them in Australia.
It was a bit of a bunfight with the manufacturers unwilling to budge, and the consumer being the meat in the sandwich, as usual.

[DarrenW]

TAZ,

the ball weight is something I spent a bit of time investigating as I have a 1997 Disco and did have a 21ft Roma Van with a plated ball weight of 190Kg. As far as I'm aware the Tdi and Td5 Disco and 110 Defenders are the same for towing.

There's 2 things you need to be aware of,

a) Whats written in the LR Manual
b) The compliance plate on your towing hit.

For a Tdi Disco in the manual the relevant words are

(from Towing and Load Carrying section)
The recommeded trailer nose weight limit is 150Kg. The nose weight plus the combined weight of the vehicles load carrying area and rear seat passengers must never exceed the maximum rear axle load.

(& in General data)
Max rear axle weight 1650kg
Kerb Weight (unladen weight +full fuel tank +75kg driver) 1040Kg

I had a lawyer friend of mine read this and he confirmed that the first statement is a recommendation and not a firm maximum, the issue is around the axle loading. So as long as you don't overload the 1650kg number your sweet.

Now the compliance plates on your Tow kit. When I bought the Disco new I had a Haymen Reece fitted , it said MAX 150Kg. I subsequently bought a KMAR rear step which had a 120Kg limit.. Then I bought the caravan and this is when I realised I had a problem. Luckily the TOW hitch ARB sell (Tow Master) is plated to 200kg.
Legally I'm OK for the caravan.

For a TD5 I don't have a manual but I believe the wording in the manual is different and it talks about 250Kg as a maximum, not recommended so you can't go above that. Also I've seen a lot of TD5 Disco's and Defenders with 250Kg on the TOW Hitch.

Darren :cool:

[mark2]

You need to work on your physics then.
The power you have on tap and the weight your pulling defines absolutely your hill climbing speed.
Poor gearing can only reduce that speed, not improve it.


This is getting way off topic. However, by gearing, I mean multispeed gearboxes which allow a truck engine with lots of torque but a limited rev range to use that in a flexible way on the road. On paper power figures do not necessarily translate to towing ability, it all depends where in the rev range the power is produced. TDi's arent exactly reknowned for great bottom end torque either btw. As an extreme example, try towing a car trailer with a WRX which has twice the power of a Land Rover and 3x the power to weight ratio. See how long the clutch lasts and check out the fuel economy. This illustrates why comparing power to weight is meaningless when it comes to towing ability.

Anyway if it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy to think/brag that a Land Rover can tow 3.5t or 4.0t in the REAL world, far be it from me to spoil the illusion or prevent someone from buying an unsuitable vehicle.

[Dougal]

it all depends where in the rev range the power is produced. TDi's arent exactly reknowned for great bottom end torque either btw.
The power and torque curves for these engines show a good fat spread, most of it is available without revving the snot out of the engine.
The bottom end torque is certainly there.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/


As an extreme example, try towing a car trailer with a WRX which has twice the power of a Land Rover and 3x the power to weight ratio. See how long the clutch lasts and check out the fuel economy. This illustrates why comparing power to weight is meaningless when it comes to towing ability.

How does burning clutches and fuel in a wrx show why power to weight is meaningless?
More power/weight makes you potentially faster up a hill. It's quite a simple concept.



Anyway if it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy to think/brag that a Land Rover can tow 3.5t or 4.0t in the REAL world, far be it from me to spoil the illusion or prevent someone from buying an unsuitable vehicle.

You've mentioned unsuitable several times, but you haven't yet said what you think a suitable vehicle is.
Do you know more about this subject than the vehicle makers? Or do you want everyone to buy something ridiculous like a dodge ram or F250?

[mark2]

The power and torque curves for these engines show a good fat spread, most of it is available without revving the snot out of the engine.
The bottom end torque is certainly there.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/


How does burning clutches and fuel in a wrx show why power to weight is meaningless?
More power/weight makes you potentially faster up a hill. It's quite a simple concept.



You've mentioned unsuitable several times, but you haven't yet said what you think a suitable vehicle is.
Do you know more about this subject than the vehicle makers? Or do you want everyone to buy something ridiculous like a dodge ram or F250?


Are you saying that you think a WRX would make a good tow vehicle because it is powerful?:eek:

If someone NEEDS to regularly tow 4t, an F250 would be a far better choice than a Land Rover. Despite other shortcomings this is what they excel at, largely due to the torque characteristics of their large capacity engines. (Powerstroke Diesel has approximatly 770Nm @ 2000 rpm). A wheelbase which is much longer than 100/110" also helps greatly with towing stability.

For towing 750kg - 2t, which pretty much covers most camper trailers, average caravans, average sized trailer boats and small horse floats, a LR is adequate, not great but adequate. I certainly wouldnt advocate an F250 for loads of this nature.

[Blknight.aus]

How does burning clutches and fuel in a wrx show why power to weight is meaningless?
More power/weight makes you potentially faster up a hill. It's quite a simple concept.


when it comes to towingpower to weight is totally meaningless

lets take a 300hp 1.1t wrx and a 275hp 12t R series mack...

ok so the wrx is faster up a hill and off the mark.

now add 8t of trailer and 26t of M113s to both.

ok you cant as the WRX cant actually carry an m113 on its back so lets let the wrx try to pull 8t of trailer and 1 m113 at 13 t (21t all up)

even if it could overcome the rolling resistance of the trailer and load It wouldnt get it over the first decent speed bump let alone anything like a hill.

the landrover is very capable at towing upto and including 4t Having done it in both disco 1's and big red. Well unless you want to be able to tow at WRX speeds but thats pointless because its not legal anywhere in aus.

Just because someone happens to want to be in a screaming great hurry isnt the problem of a person in a slower vehicle in front its up to the someone to overtake SAFELY. Its not the problem of the slower vehicle to get the hell out of the way.

Id hate to want to be in a hurry in cane cutting seaon or harvest season in the north... those tractors are flat out at 40kph and they often take up 1 + 1/2 lanes And you cant tell me that a tractors a Bad towing vehicle

[mark2]

I've towed 2.5t with a Disco and that was enough for for me. I could not imagine what it would be like with 4t on the back:eek:.

Tractors make great short haul tow vehicles, if you dont want to go over 40km/h. Not many trucking companies use them here for moving freight long distances however........
In cane areas, specials signs are in place to warn drivers of slow moving cane hauling machinery during the cutting season. Bins are hauled by truck for anything more than a short haul.

[Dougal]

Are you saying that you think a WRX would make a good tow vehicle because it is powerful?:eek:

You bought up the WRX, don't try to hang that crap on me.:D

[Taz]

After a few phone calls, it seems I can change the placard on my hayman reece tow bar on the '89 Rangie from 4000/120kg to 3500/250kg just by taking the vehicle to a service agent so they can see the bar, then they send away for a new placard, once arrived they weld it over the old placard. Cost = $10.

This is the R1253 towbar from hayman reece, exactly the same towbar that is fitted to my D1 and which hayman reece will only allow 3500/150kg. I guess hayman reece are responding to the 'recommendation' in the owners handbook.