Replaced head gasket now wont start 300 TDi

[kangoloo]

Hi all, I just replaced the head agsket myself, i have know mechanical knowledge but did everything by the book. The engine wont fire and i may not have set the firing order right, is it open when the spring is down or up?
I have bled the injectors as well.
The vehicle was running well before hand, just emmitting a lot of steam.

rgs Les

[Lucus]

Valves are open when the spring is down and compressed.

[kangoloo]

Can anyone advise 1 through 8 is it from front of motor, and do i set them one at a time.
Rgs Les

[Blknight.aus]

the valve train starts from the front of the engine (where the fan is) and works backwards...

the best way to do the valves is thusly

get the engine at TDC on #1 (use the timing mark on the crank) then check which set of valves are on the rock, which means that both valves are open a little bit and the opposite piston on the crank (cyl 1 or 4) will have its valves both closed. this will be apparent by both valves having some lash on the rockers. These are the valves you adjust. Turn the crank over 180 degrees and the next valves in sequence will be ready to adjust (cyl 2 or 3). keep turning the crank in 180 degree increments untill youve done all the valves.

Theres a few differing opinions on weather you should do them with the engine hot or cold.

Mine says you do the final check and adjust on a hot engine and others (rovercare for one :D ) thinks cold...

This is a topic thats been covered a couple of times before if you search the tech threads you should find a much more detailed effort..

But if you need more help let us know.

[camel_landy]

The power of 9... :D

Count from the front 1 - 8. When valve 3 is fully down, adjust valve number 6 (3+6=9). When 4 is down, adjust number 5 (4+5=9). Etc...

When you go to fire it up, just make sure you've re-connected the fuel pump solenoid. ;)

HTH

M

[Rovernaut]

Instructions from Rave


ENGINE
1 ADJUSTMENT REV: 05/99
VALVE CLEARANCES - CHECK AND ADJUST
Service repair no - 12.29.48
Adjust
CAUTION: If the crankshaft is rotated with
excessive valve clearace, it is possible
that the push rods could be dislodged
from the cam follower seating and fracture the
cam follower slide. To prevent damage, eliminate
all clearance from any loose rockers before
turning the crankshaft to adjust clearances.
1. Rotate crankshaft until No.8 valve (counting from
front of engine) is fully open.
2. Using a 0,20 mm (0.008 in) feeler gauge adjust
clearance of No.1 valve.
3. Slacken locknut and turn adjusting screw
clockwise to reduce clearance and
anti-clockwise to increase clearance. Tighten
locknut to 16 Nm.
4. Repeat operation for remaining tappets in the
following sequence:
No.3 tappet with No.6 valve fully open.
No.5 tappet with No.4 valve fully open.
No.2 tappet with No.7 valve fully open.
No.8 tappet with No.1 valve fully open.
No.6 tappet with No.3 valve fully open.
No.4 tappet with No.5 valve fully open.
No.7 tappet with No.2 valve fully open.
5. On completion, recheck clearances and adjust
as necessary.

[kangoloo]

Hi all, still having some problems understanding how the firing order works.
Is there a mark on a pully somewhere that indicates when a valve is open or is it by sight. What am i looking to achieve to get it to start.
rgs Les:confused:

[rick130]

there's a 5mm slot in the flywheel that indicates No. 1 cyl, TDC (top dead centre) Look up though the bell housing to sight it. Be careful, there are actually two slots in the flywheel, the correct one is exactly 5mm wide. I have a 1/4 BSP nipple that I've tapped to 6mm internally, and I've machined a 6mm bolt to 5mm on the end to lock the flywheel there.

TDC is when the pump has sent it's shot of fuel to the injector, which ignites when it hits the compressed, hot air in the chamber.
At this point No. 1 cyl valves are closed. Both rockers to valves will have play (0.008'') and you should be able to slide a pin (IIRC it's something like 9.5mm) into the relevant slot/hole through the pump pulley in the timing case cover.
If you have done all this and you have fuel at the injector it will fire.

BTW, I've always adjusted 4cyl valves the way Dave describes. (used to do it a lot on certain race engines).
Just seems easier/more intuitive to me.

[stevo]

is it possible that the cam is 180 degrees off from the injector pump?? ie when #1 is on compression # 4 is getting the fuel?? I have never done a TDI but there are engines out there were this is possible

[kangoloo]

still trying to fathom the information, i have not as yet located the notch in the pulley as yet, is it the drive pulley below or is it up high?
Can anyone advise how to get the fan off, the allen keys i have dont seem to have enough room to get in and i have the long shanke type with smaller head.

rgs Les

[Blknight.aus]

that is possable although if everything is done "by the book it shouldnt happen"

theres a simple test for it...

remove all the glowplugs (not required but it makes baring the engine over easier)

line #1 up on top dead center and then crack the injector lines off at the injector unions (dont totally remove them just a couple of turns)

turn the fuel solenoid on and prime the system then bar the engine over by hand. when you see the valves on a clinder go on the rock (both just open together) then that cyl will fire when you complete 1 more full turn of the crank or if you mark and watch the inlet valves when they close your 1/2 a turn of the crank from firing. Firing is indicated by fuel exiting the injector line for that cylinder and should occour a few degrees before you get the crank back to TDC or 180 degrees off.

If your not getting anything out of the injector lines double check the fuel cut out and then reprime. Once youve got the filter draining clean bubbleless fuel leave the glow plugs out and keeping everyone well clear of the injectors and glowplug holes crank the engine over on the starter to get the lines to the injectors bled out.

Once youve got the injector lines beld out double check them for firing on the right pot at the right time and then tighten everything up, install the glow plugs and give it a kick.

So long as youre valve timing is on or 180degrees out you will then be able to get it to go. (if its 180 degrees out mark the injector housing pull the injector pump out, turn the shaft 180 degrees and reassemble if your not in the mood to pull the front off of the engine again)

somewhere in there lies the answer.

[460cixy]

if you have only had the head off you should only need to bolt it back together adjust valve clearance bleed the fuel system and start it up nothing else should be out

[kangoloo]

I am in Mackay Qld, is there anyone who can get to my place and help, i am willing to pay or is that not what we do on the forum???
rgs Les

[460cixy]

i would no worrys but its a bit of a treck

[Blknight.aus]

I am in Mackay Qld, is there anyone who can get to my place and help, i am willing to pay or is that not what we do on the forum???
rgs Les

nope we do that

but your a bit far from most of us...

[rick130]

still trying to fathom the information, i have not as yet located the notch in the pulley as yet, is it the drive pulley below or is it up high?
Can anyone advise how to get the fan off, the allen keys i have dont seem to have enough room to get in and i have the long shanke type with smaller head.

rgs Les

NOT THE PULLEY/HARMONIC BALANCER.

The timing mark/slot is on the FLYWHEEL

crawl underneath the car and you'll see a threaded hole in the bellhousing. Shine a light in there and turn the engine over with a socket on the crank pulley and you'll see a slot appear, eventually.
Be careful, as I said in the above post there are two slots. This is your TDC timing mark.
Make a tool as I described above, or if you are careful, just keep checking this 5mm slot is dead centre of the bellhousing hole as you work.
When this slot is in the centre of the hole as I've described, there is a hole that lines up in the back of the timing case with the fuel pump drive pulley. This is why it is advisable to lock the flywheel in position so that things don't move.
If you haven't already found this, it is behind an access cover in the timing case.
In air-conditioned vehicles, it is the a/c tensioner pulley, which must be removed to access the timing holes.

When the engine is at TDC, a pin slots through the pump drive pulley into a hole behind. The size of the pin/rod used is fairly critical, as a touch too small results in a slight amount of retarded timing, but the vehicle will still start.
If your pin doesn't slide all the way in easily, the pump pulley bolts need loosening (10mm hex, use a 6 point socket and be careful, it is easy to round these off) and the pulley moved slightly until the pin goes all the way home.

I use a drill shank, and IIRC it is the shank of a 10mm masonry bit, so the hole is a bit smaller than 10mm, approx 9.5mm.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on the bit size, it's been two years since I've played with the pump timing.

[awabbit6]

if you have only had the head off you should only need to bolt it back together adjust valve clearance bleed the fuel system and start it up nothing else should be out

I agree. The timing should be fine. Even with loose valve clearances, it should run. If the valves have no tappet clearance they won't close and it won't run. I think it is most likely a fuel system problem - ie not bled.

While this isn't the way I do them (I prefer the 1 rocking, set 4 etc method), this video shows a quick way to set the valve clearances. It's being demonstrated on an MG engine, but the procedure is exactly the same for the 300Tdi (and most other 4cyl pushrod engines).

YouTube - MG Valve Adjustment (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fezXUwVfH7U)

Hope this helps as I too am a bit far away to call in ;)

[Blknight.aus]

sorry thats my bad...

I line it all up once then I hand mark the front pully when I do this stuff...

[kangoloo]

Hi all,
I got it going thankyou.
Next scenario is it is running rough and white smoke emmitting from the exhaust, when i bleed the injectors it labours noticably on 3 & 4 and not so much on 1 & 2, a freind who is a diesel fitter said it is possibly unburnt diesel from the front 2 cylinders, any other ideas or can you confirm the unburnt diesel.

rgs Les:D

[Blknight.aus]

so what was it? bad bleed, valves not closing?


If it was a valve problem read on. if not skip this paragraph

how many times did you try to crank it over before it fired up. IF it was injecting but not firing on a couple of cylinders there will be a fair bit of fuel in the pot that will need to be burnt off/exhausted out of the cylinder. That usualy doesnt take more than a minute or 2. you might also have a build up of fuel in the exhaust.

Assuming that it wasnt a valve problem but a fuel supply problem then its the pots in question not getting enough compression to fire off the fuel.

to prove which pots put a spanner on the injector line nut on the injector wrap a rag around it and with the engine running crack the nut and let the fuel out there, when it stops blowing whiteish smoke thats the culprit pot.

double check the vavle clearances to begin with.

White smoke is also symptomatic of late injection but it should clear up if you can give it a rev. Dont try revving it up unil you are certain that theres nothing thats going to go metal to metal that might get damaged.

[kangoloo]

Ok i have identified it is the front cylinder, what do i need to do, it wont clear itself and i have tried bleeding it. Any ideas.
rgs Les

[kangoloo]

Everone thanks for your help, it beat me and is on its way to the shop, but gee i learnt a lot.
rgs Les

[460cixy]

let us know what it turns out to be

[kangoloo]

Electrolosus, was the problem, i was chasing my tail, the smoke was steam again.
rgs Les

[sclarke]

Ignore me...... i'm lost....

[460cixy]

so the head was eaten out at a water galery and entering no1 cyl and causeing the steam ect. when i rebuilt my 300tdi the head was very close to failing in a water galery. when or if it does fail in the next 3/4 years i should be able to just get another head knowing my bottomend is strong as an ox

[kangoloo]

Hi all,
A bit of advice if unsure on your own ability dont chase your tale go to the experts, my outcome was over $4500 at the shop,it is now fixed, i got a new head etc, etc, etc.
thanks again for everyone who had input to my problem, everyone was on the money, i just had it all.
rgs Les