Snorkles

[Four Boar]

Hi Landy Lovers,

I am really just after information to better me knowledge about snorkles.

What do they acually do?

I believe they are a source of air intake for when the rest of the vechiel is submerged.

But there are other things to consider after reading different posts on the forum such as the air filter gettin soggy, water getting into the engine (esp. deisel), fans and fan belts going like the clappers etc are there not?

With so many modles of snorkle facing forwards, wouldn't this just coolect a whole lot of crap bugs etc ?

Or do they have a filter aswell?
If so does it need cleaning/ to b replaced?

Any additional info much appriciated.

Kind Regards Four Boar.

[blitz]

G'day Four Boar
Snorkles do several things, by having the air intake outside of the engine bay it gets cooler air therefore a bit better bang for your buck.

It also has a very mild ram effect therefore more bang for your buck.

Obviously having the air intake up so high means that water cant get in as easily.

On the question of being a bug catcher - not really I change my filter when I think of it, and while yes there are bugs that get in there is not as bad you might think.

It probably gets a bit soggy in the rain but your filter has a drain hole at the bottom so it shouldnt get any more soggy than a normal one.

Finally yes you still need a filter as all the snorkle does is move the place of air intake from inside the engine bay to outside and higher up.

Hope that helps

Cheers Blythe

[spudboy]

The forward facing Safari snorkels have grooves for the water to run out of the head, so even in heavy rain at speed water just exits the back of the head - never even makes it into the "down-tube" part.

I just got a new Mantec snorkel for my 110 and this has slots in the bottom (instead of being forward facing) so there are other designs out there apart from Safari/AirTech

[mrapocalypse]

Good Post Four Boar.

I'm also interested in some of these issues. Wasn't there a debate re whether Snorkels were bad for Petrol motors etc... What are you running?

[Lucus]

My experience with a recently fitted lra snorkel

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/range-rover/48595-lra-snorkel-my-experiences.html

:)

[Four Boar]

Good Post Four Boar.

I'm also interested in some of these issues. Wasn't there a debate re whether Snorkels were bad for Petrol motors etc... What are you running?

I have a TDI.

I was on the forum in the Discos can swim section and a bloke pictured his
v8i Disco goin for it when non of the others would. Another bloke posted a coment on how his air filter would have been soaked/ soggy, but the LR kept on keepin on. So would the water still enter (eventually wreck) my engine even with a snorkle if the air filter gets soaked?


What does this mild RAM effect mean?

And what about the fans (belts) and water going up the exhaust?
Not to menchin any other factors that I don't know of?
I really am interested in this topic hence trying to absorb as much info as possible.

[BigJon]

What does this mild RAM effect mean?

And what about the fans (belts) and water going up the exhaust?
Not to menchin any other factors that I don't know of?
I really am interested in this topic hence trying to absorb as much info as possible.

Air getting forced into the engine because of the motion of the vehicle through the air and the shape of the snorkle head.

There is a chance that the fan will be pulled into the radiator, but I don't think it is a common Tdi problem (moreso TD5).

If the engine is running, water won't go up the exhaust (too much exhaust gas coming out).

[RonMcGr]

Four Boar,

I have just ordered one from British 4WD, ($200 cheaper than local dealers).

I'm hoping to get more cooler air into the V8 when towing.
It may help a little :-)

Water crossings will be a plus, if I every have to!

Next step is a bigger exhaust with less retrictive mufflers.

Cheers

[Bulldog]

AFAIK the 'water up the exhaust' happens when you stall it with the exhaust pipe under water. Nothing to do with snorkels, but an important thing to know.

I'm interested in snorkel theory too at the moment. I have recently been informed that my air intake (RRC, carby) is right over the (hot) inlet manifold, and therefore probably not helping my hot running engine.

I am thinking about a DIY snorkel system using PVC plumbing pipe and just buying the top piece (i hear they're only $30 or so). Does anyone know what pipe size (diameter) they are?

[Blknight.aus]

so far everyone is on the right track..

the issue of snorkles not being any good for petrol engines is 2 fold. Primarily that electricry and water dont mix so well especially the HT side of the ignition so by the time your deep enough to need a snorkle your engine will have already stopped because of electical issues.

The secondary issue is only applicable to carbied engines and even then only some of them and that is the forced air induction issue. This can mess with the mix coming out of the carby and lead to bad running at speed. the solution to that is simple just turn the head of the snorkle around.

the precautions you can take to prevent your fan eating the radiator is to loosen off its drive belt, fit a viscous coupled fan or better pull the fan out totally and fit up electric fans with an off switch.

as already covered with regards to rain entering the snorkle new heads are designed to shed the water before it gets into the downpipe, but even then most engines have a small one way vacuator type valve at a low point in the system where the airspeed is lowered, or the air turns a corner and the water will gather there and drain out automatically when the engine shuts off or when the relative air pressures permit.

One more benifit of the snorkle is that it can free up space inside the engine bay by shifting the first leg of the air intake out of the engine bay and putting it outside the vehicle. A 93 v8 D1 is a good example of this, removing the airhorn on the front of the filter leaves enough room for a dual battery system.

Another yet unmentioned benifit of the snorkle is the fact that the air outside your engine bay and up at roof height is usually cleaner than the stuff in your engine bay when you're working off road or in convoy on gravel roads. However this benifit is not always as great as it might sound depending on how well your air inlet is set up.

hope thats helpful.

[WildOne]

:eek:
Four Boar,

I have just ordered one from British 4WD, ($200 cheaper than local dealers).

I'm hoping to get more cooler air into the V8 when towing.
It may help a little :-)

Water crossings will be a plus, if I every have to!

Next step is a bigger exhaust with less retrictive mufflers.

Cheers

G'day Ron,
I presume your newly ordered snorkle is an "Airflow" brand as i bought mine from British 4wd.
Don't rush the install and be very carefull with your measurements before drilling any holes, the template supplied does'nt match the snorkle:eek:
I also had to fabricate an extension onto one of the pieces supplied, situated inside the front quarter panel, that connects the snorkle to the airbox, as there was no way to do the connection in a suitably watertight manner.
I suspect the piece supplied, when removed from the injection mould after being made, was trimmed a bit too much........

[Bulldog]

Thanks Dave,

What about the heat issue? Is it better to run an extension to the front/side of the engine bay instead of a snorkel? I've seen a few pics lately that show (what appears to be) a radiator hose on the air intake to extend it to the front left side... I'm talking RRC carby model with short air intake above the inlet manifold...

[Blknight.aus]

The snorkle beats an in engine bay air intake every time (unless your driving in say antartica or the top of everest) and even then there are ways to "optimise" your air intake to minimise air intake

things like a short straight run done with smooth piping (think downpipe)

[HangOver]

so far everyone is on the right track..
the precautions you can take to prevent your fan eating the radiator is

Anotheer tip I read somewhere for the viscous type fan is to drill a small hole in a couple of blades of your fan and before entering deep water hook an Occy/Bungie strap through the hole and secure the other end.
Never tried it but the theory seems sound.
Stops it eating your radiator and throwing water where it's not meant to be.



Another yet unmentioned benifit of the snorkle is the fact that the air outside your engine bay and up at roof height is usually cleaner than the stuff in your engine bay when you're working off road or in convoy on gravel roads. However this benifit is not always as great as it might sound depending on how well your air inlet is set up.

I also have the manual choke carby V8 and an observation I made a year or two ago after a sandy convoy trip to wedge/Lancelin, around that area anyhow long dunes trip. After the trip several participants complained about a lot of sand in their filters and had to enpty them at the end of the day, and the second day!
I checked mine and nothing !
I have changed my air filter once in about 2-3 years not because I'm a cheap B..........., (I am but thats besides the point) but because it's spotless.
I think the air intake position for the carby V8 isn't too good for cool air but it's about the best place to avoid crap getting sucked in.
If/when I fit a snorkel no way will I get an air ram, maybe one of those centrifugal jobbies?.
Just my 2c

[Blknight.aus]

Anotheer tip I read somewhere for the viscous type fan is to drill a small hole in a couple of blades of your fan and before entering deep water hook an Occy/Bungie strap through the hole and secure the other end.
Never tried it but the theory seems sound.
Stops it eating your radiator and throwing water where it's not meant to be.



urrmmm sounds like a disaster waiting to happen to me.... picture the cord snapping and then flailing your electrics while on the way to gettting sucked into the belts to throw them off but only after the hook of the strap stresses the end out of the fan, which fails later, unbalancing it so that even after you fix all the other stuff the fan now vibrates the snot out of the viscus coupling causing the seal to fail letting all the fluid out contaminants in which then prevents any significant drive from actually getting to the fan.

But since you drive it 2000Km on the road at highway speed the airflow of the vehicles motion is enough to keep the engine cool so your not aware of the damage to the coupling and the fan untill the water pumps shaft bearings fail letting all the coolant out which doesnt register as the temp gauge wont read correctly while its in air and the engine siezes up after blowing the head gasket.

Or even more entertaining the vibration causes the viscus coupling to fail as previously mentioned and with no lube the bearings shred themselves and build up enough heat and scoring away enough metal that the fan comes off and is stabbed through the radiator and the aircons condensor which you dont notice as its night time, the aircon is off and once again the temp gauge doesnt read air temps so the engine cooks itself with no warning...

If I had the viscus coupling Id just take the screwdriver to remove the shroud and the right size spanner to undo the nut that holds it on the pump shaft then fit a dummy nut to stop the threads from getting fouled....

[HangOver]

urrmmm sounds like a disaster waiting to happen to me.....

Hmm prob not a great tip then :D:D:D
Sounded good at the time but like I said never tried it.

[feraldisco]

I have my doubts about the 'ram air' benefits of a snorkle - would have thought the length and convoluted route of a snorkle would have meant that is anything, airflow is slightly constricted. A short 'cold air' intake pointing straight out of the front of the car would result is some positive pressure in the airbox, but of course wouldn't have the other benefits of a snorkle...

[RonMcGr]

I have my doubts about the 'ram air' benefits of a snorkle - would have thought the length and convoluted route of a snorkle would have meant that is anything, airflow is slightly constricted. A short 'cold air' intake pointing straight out of the front of the car would result is some positive pressure in the airbox, but of course wouldn't have the other benefits of a snorkle...

You obviously missed the link Lucas put it!

" LRA Snorkel: my experiences.
Hi Guys,
yesterday i installed a Les Richmond Autos snorkel to mmy 93rrc. Heres what i discovered.
( i am able to read all these parameters on my wolf 3d ecu screen)

Pre snorkel
Ambient 30deg c(tested using a small digital thermometer)
Intake air temp (at 70 k's per hour) 65 to 70deg c
Coolant temp 95 to 99 deg c dependant on load (ie up or down hill)
AFR at 70kph cruise set 15.1:1
Vacum at W.O.T. at 70kph 20 to 25kpa.


Post snorkel:
Ambient 44(phreaking hot!!!)deg c
Intake air temp (at 70 k's per hour) 45 to 49deg c
Coolant temp 92 to 95 deg c dependant on load (ie up or down hill, remained below thermo fan cut in temp at 70kph)
AFR at 70kph cruise set 16.2:1(lots more air!)
Vacum at W.O.T. at 70kph -02 to 00kpa.

To say i am happy is an understatement. I tested the before and after runs on the same 30km route between mny house and my fiance's house.
I went 4wding today in 33deg c heat and the hottest the car got was 102deg c and that was after about a 2km slog in 3rd gear low range at 40kph in the sand. The car would normally reach 108+ doing this. I also managed to banish the dreaded pinging i had in low range at high load but i also ran octane booster so i will have to retest the car again minus the o2 booster. But the 20 deg reduction in intake air temp had got to help. Btw the car had a totally standard intake system prior to fitting the snorkel and is fitted with a 4.6ltr.

cheers
Luke"

I'm sure that proves otherwise.

[Dougal]

You obviously missed the link Lucas put it!

" LRA Snorkel: my experiences.
Hi Guys,
..............................


If you read that link again, I've added some more comments.

Basically with two runs, one at 30 deg C and the other at 44 deg C the aerodynamic drag on the vehicle changes quite a lot (lower drag in hotter, thinner air).
This alone accounts for the better result at higher temps.

IMO the changing AFR between the two runs is also a concern.

[RonMcGr]

If you read that link again, I've added some more comments.

Basically with two runs, one at 30 deg C and the other at 44 deg C the aerodynamic drag on the vehicle changes quite a lot (lower drag in hotter, thinner air).
This alone accounts for the better result at higher temps.

IMO the changing AFR between the two runs is also a concern.

Yes I did, home made filter and housing, sucking air near the bonnet.

I think snorkel up near the roof is going to pick up cooler air and less dust.
The top of the snorkel will also draw FAR more air than the tiny funnel sitting behind the head light in my Disco 1.

FWIW, Norm Dewis drove a Jaguar XK120 in Belgium, 1953, and won the highest speed for a production car.
He was in Brisbane at one time and told us they removed the drivers side headlight and put a funnel in it's place, leading straight to the twin SU's. He got that car that normally did a 120mph, to do 173 mph. He achieved that by the funnel and sitting on the floor with no windscreen.

Compressed air does work.

[RonMcGr]

More info on Snorkels, this one a test on a dyno, not the open road.

http://www.lcool.org/technical/120_series/snorkel/snorkel_performance.html

"A straight forward test is to see the affect of a snorkel on engine performance under the worst possible conditions. That is, stationary on a chassis dyno. This will highlight any deficiency of the snorkel system when compared to standard because the test is conducted with zero air velocity (hence zero positive pressure over atmospheric conditions) to the snorkel air ram. Much like holding your open hand out of the window of a fast moving car, the air ram takes advantage of that additional air flow to move the point of zero positive pressure further inside the snorkel body, thus improving air flow further.

An automatic V6 Grande was used as the test vehicle and 3 full throttle power runs (in 2nd gear) were conducted on the dyno to determine the standard power at the wheels. The best power and torque curve was plotted below (124.7 kW). A Safari SS186HF snorkel was fitted to the Grande and another 3 power runs were conducted. In this case, the lowest power curve was plotted over the standard power curve (127.2 kW).

The result was a worst case net gain of 2.5 kW at the wheels or 2% improvement. This indicates that the Safari SS186HF snorkel delivers a less restrictive air inlet than standard. This also suggests that at speed, the improvement will be greater, however it is all but impossible to conduct accurate and repeatable tests when the vehicle is speeding along. None the less, on the 120 Series, the improvement in engine performance is real and quantifiable under worst case conditions."

[Dougal]

Yes I did, home made filter and housing, sucking air near the bonnet.

I think snorkel up near the roof is going to pick up cooler air and less dust.
The top of the snorkel will also draw FAR more air than the tiny funnel sitting behind the head light in my Disco 1.

FWIW, Norm Dewis drove a Jaguar XK120 in Belgium, 1953, and won the highest speed for a production car.
He was in Brisbane at one time and told us they removed the drivers side headlight and put a funnel in it's place, leading straight to the twin SU's. He got that car that normally did a 120mph, to do 173 mph. He achieved that by the funnel and sitting on the floor with no windscreen.

Compressed air does work.

Yes ram air does work, when you're doing between 200-300km/h. At legal speeds it does nothing but collect insects.
At 100km/h the maximum air pressure increase possible is 0.4% of atmospheric.

That link shows the stock air intake on a V6 Grande can be improved upon. I bet without a 2m long snorkle on it'd do even better.
But remember, intake restrictions on a petrol engine do not harm fuel economy. You can make that intake as open as you like and not get any improvement.

I've checked out the dust cloud when following other vehicles on gravel roads, a snorkle aint going to help there. If you want a cold air intake, there are ways to do it without adding 2m to your intake tract.

[RonMcGr]

Yes ram air does work, when you're doing between 200-300km/h. At legal speeds it does nothing but collect insects.
At 100km/h the maximum air pressure increase possible is 0.4% of atmospheric.

That link shows the stock air intake on a V6 Grande can be improved upon. I bet without a 2m long snorkle on it'd do even better.
But remember, intake restrictions on a petrol engine do not harm fuel economy. You can make that intake as open as you like and not get any improvement.

I've checked out the dust cloud when following other vehicles on gravel roads, a snorkle aint going to help there. If you want a cold air intake, there are ways to do it without adding 2m to your intake tract.

Okay, I can see your point of view!

Keep smiling and have a good day :)

[RonMcGr]

Luke,

The tests you did was closer to the truth :)
The Snorkel does have a big impact on the air flow to the engine. :D
I'll let you know what it does to my asmatic disco :p
On it's own it is okay, but under load it ????

Maybe Phil has more info.

Cheers,

[Bulldog]

FWIW, Norm Dewis drove a Jaguar XK120 in Belgium, 1953, and won the highest speed for a production car.
He was in Brisbane at one time and told us they removed the drivers side headlight and put a funnel in it's place, leading straight to the twin SU's. He got that car that normally did a 120mph, to do 173 mph. He achieved that by the funnel and sitting on the floor with no windscreen.

Compressed air does work.

An earlier post in this thread mentioned a point about "air rams" not helping a carby engine, as the carby would have to be tuned for the different air/fuel mixture (which would change as you increase speed i assume)... Anyone know anything about this (before i make a snorkel for the carby'd Bulldog... ;)

[feraldisco]

thanks to both Luke and Ron for providing some actual data rather than just opinions... of course the best set-up for a ram air effect (for those of us unlikely to do deep water crossings) is a short direct air flow into the airbox. On my S1 Disco, I had a Safari snorkel head going straight through the bonnet into the airbox. Not pretty, but effective. I'm obviously not keen to do that on my S2 Disco, and don't think I'll start butchering the front grill/headlight area to put in a cold air intake...looks like I'll be getting a 'proper' snorkle set-up this time... I guess one alternative would be a GU bonnet scoop feeding into a cold-air intake which wouldn't look too bad...(and was actually how I tidied up my S1 Disco before selling it)

[Tank]

Just thought I would post some pics of my setup showing stormwate pipe fittings and othe PVC fittings available at your local hardware or plumbers supplies, only cost a few bucks and has lasted OK for 2 years now, Regards Frank.

Cant get pics up from Gallery, has it been changed, haven't had problems before, any tips appreciated, Thanks Frank.

Can check out pics under "T" in the Gallery section, go to "Tank"

[vnx205]

Just thought I would post some pics of my setup showing stormwate pipe fittings and othe PVC fittings available at your local hardware or plumbers supplies, only cost a few bucks and has lasted OK for 2 years now, Regards Frank.

Cant get pics up from Gallery, has it been changed, haven't had problems before, any tips appreciated, Thanks Frank.

Can check out pics under "T" in the Gallery section, go to "Tank"

I found your pics OK. I did a search in the Gallery section for picture by Tank.

I was hoping when you mentioned PVC pipe that you had made the whole thing from PVC including the external part.
I have considered making a snorkel for my 300Tdi Defender from PVC and wondered if anyone could think of any reason why it would be a bad idea.
My thinking was that there are so many sizes and so many angle fittings available it should be possible to get just the shape I need.
I also thought that if I made a new plate for where the air intake is in the mudguard, I could return the vehicle to standard just by putting the original plate back.
I figure that if I bump into a tree or something, it doesn't matter if it breaks because I still have the original air filter doing what it always did.
I thought it would be easy to seal and pretty cheap to make.
My main concern was the heat in the engine bay, but your experience suggests that is not a problem.

Any thoughts on the subject?

[RonMcGr]

Just thought I would post some pics of my setup showing stormwate pipe fittings and othe PVC fittings available at your local hardware or plumbers supplies, only cost a few bucks and has lasted OK for 2 years now, Regards Frank.

Cant get pics up from Gallery, has it been changed, haven't had problems before, any tips appreciated, Thanks Frank.

Can check out pics under "T" in the Gallery section, go to "Tank"

Hi Frank,

Interesting set up :D

How do you find the extractors?
More heat inside the cab?
Noise?

Cheers

[RonMcGr]

:eek:

G'day Ron,
I presume your newly ordered snorkle is an "Airflow" brand as i bought mine from British 4wd.
Don't rush the install and be very carefull with your measurements before drilling any holes, the template supplied does'nt match the snorkle:eek:
I also had to fabricate an extension onto one of the pieces supplied, situated inside the front quarter panel, that connects the snorkle to the airbox, as there was no way to do the connection in a suitably watertight manner.
I suspect the piece supplied, when removed from the injection mould after being made, was trimmed a bit too much........

Phill,

It arrived today.

I guess you are talking about the odd dog leg bit that is very sloppy on one end?
I guess you get what you pay for :(

The supplied template appears to match the three bolt holes on the snorkel, so is it the position on the guard that is out?

Cheers,

[Dougal]

Here's a very good article on ram-air tests done on motorbikes.
Sport Rider-ram air induction test for sport bike motorcycles (http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_9910_ram/index.html)

[Cap]

Good read. So cant I ask a stupid question then?

If on a petrol Rangie, if you saying that the electrics will cause the engine to stop because of deep water, then how can one prevent this? Or if it cant be prevented, then is it worth spending the $$ (although I wont, ill make one) on a snorkle assuming you do want deep water crossing (aside from other benefits)?

Hmmm, I should ask justinc how much it costs to install a diesel isuzu in my Rangie :p

[RonMcGr]

Good read. So cant I ask a stupid question then?

If on a petrol Rangie, if you saying that the electrics will cause the engine to stop because of deep water, then how can one prevent this? Or if it cant be prevented, then is it worth spending the $$ (although I wont, ill make one) on a snorkle assuming you do want deep water crossing (aside from other benefits)?

Hmmm, I should ask justinc how much it costs to install a diesel isuzu in my Rangie :p

I would imagine $$$$$$$$$$$$$, then if it breaks down more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ :D

[Dougal]

Hmmm, I should ask justinc how much it costs to install a diesel isuzu in my Rangie :p

Do it, you will never look back.
When the engine wears out the rest of the vehicle, bolt it into another one and keep goign.:)

[Four Boar]

I don't even know what a carby is!?:wasntme:

[Dougal]

I don't even know what a carby is!?:wasntme:

It's like an abacus, but bolts to a petrol engine.

[Tank]

I found your pics OK. I did a search in the Gallery section for picture by Tank.

I was hoping when you mentioned PVC pipe that you had made the whole thing from PVC including the external part.
I have considered making a snorkel for my 300Tdi Defender from PVC and wondered if anyone could think of any reason why it would be a bad idea.
My thinking was that there are so many sizes and so many angle fittings available it should be possible to get just the shape I need.
I also thought that if I made a new plate for where the air intake is in the mudguard, I could return the vehicle to standard just by putting the original plate back.
I figure that if I bump into a tree or something, it doesn't matter if it breaks because I still have the original air filter doing what it always did.
I thought it would be easy to seal and pretty cheap to make.
My main concern was the heat in the engine bay, but your experience suggests that is not a problem.

Any thoughts on the subject?
Alan, if you were going to have a long length of PVC under the bonnet I would use 90mm drain-pipe (not stormwater down pipe) as it is built to handle hot water with no problems and if it were to pass near a hot spot I would sheild it, if you wish I'll drop down and have a look at what's needed.
Took a run down Rebecca Fire Trail on the way to Bendethra on Tuesday, spent a lovely night at Bendethra, only 1/2 a dozen campers there, water was like ice, but was good once you were in for a while, Regards Frank.

[Tank]

Hi Frank,

Interesting set up :D

How do you find the extractors?
More heat inside the cab?
Noise?

Cheers
Ron, thanks, the extractors dont seem to make it too hot under the bonnet, they are fairly low down, I havent noticed any extra heat in the cab. I have a 2 1/2" exhaust system with a straight thru muffler and a resonater and it's a little bit too noisy, but it sure sounds sweet, it probably would have been quieter with twin exhausts but hard to get thru the drivers side as I have a 135 litre fuel tank and would have cost twice as much, Regards Frank.

[Bulldog]

Good read. So cant I ask a stupid question then?

If on a petrol Rangie, if you saying that the electrics will cause the engine to stop because of deep water, then how can one prevent this? Or if it cant be prevented, then is it worth spending the $$ (although I wont, ill make one) on a snorkle assuming you do want deep water crossing (aside from other benefits)?

Hmmm, I should ask justinc how much it costs to install a diesel isuzu in my Rangie :p

Water on the distributor, leads and plugs will stop it even before its submerged if its anything like mine. I believe that EDIS (electronic distributorless ignition system) will solve alot of this. Its my next project, but not for underwater reasons...

However, i don't believe the comment your replying to is 100% correct (:o), as water can still splash/spray into the air intake before you're up to your knees in water. IMHO a snorkel will solve half the problem of swimming 4x4s, and more importantly, solve the more serious one (water in the air intake can be very bad news, water on the dizzy means SFA except the car stalls).

As with all my technical posts, please correct me if i'm wrong :(

[Bulldog]

I would imagine $$$$$$$$$$$$$, then if it breaks down more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ :D

Are you're $$$ refering to the snorkel conversion (which his $$$ were), or the deisel conversion? :p

[Blknight.aus]

Good read. So cant I ask a stupid question then?

If on a petrol Rangie, if you saying that the electrics will cause the engine to stop because of deep water, then how can one prevent this? Or if it cant be prevented, then is it worth spending the $$ (although I wont, ill make one) on a snorkle assuming you do want deep water crossing (aside from other benefits)?

Hmmm, I should ask justinc how much it costs to install a diesel isuzu in my Rangie :p

depending on how permanant you want to go and how much ease of servicability you wish to retain will change the cost. The simple way is to be very generous with the sealastic gun and it just gets more complicated from there up to and including secondary shields over the plugs and leads and compressed air flowing thorugh (at about 1-3psi) all the major electrical components with a driver controled fan clutch to disengage the fan drive and an isolation system for the alternator so that its not going to arc out while under..

I have once seen a petrol old school engine running with about a 3 foot head of water over the rocker covers.. just to prove it could be done.


Water on the distributor, leads and plugs will stop it even before its submerged if its anything like mine. I believe that EDIS (electronic distributorless ignition system) will solve alot of this. Its my next project, but not for underwater reasons...

However, i don't believe the comment your replying to is 100% correct (:o), as water can still splash/spray into the air intake before you're up to your knees in water. IMHO a snorkel will solve half the problem of swimming 4x4s, and more importantly, solve the more serious one (water in the air intake can be very bad news, water on the dizzy means SFA except the car stalls).

As with all my technical posts, please correct me if i'm wrong :(


nope your pretty much on the money but the amount of water that is usually sprayed up into the intake of a petrol engine (assuming its stock as designed) will be passed through the engine without too much hassle it'll just run a bit rough for a while and maybe better after as the cylinders will have been steam cleaned. Diesels are a differnt story.

[RonMcGr]

Are you're $$$ refering to the snorkel conversion (which his $$$ were), or the deisel conversion? :p

Diesel :)

[WildOne]

Phill,

It arrived today.

I guess you are talking about the odd dog leg bit that is very sloppy on one end?
I guess you get what you pay for :(

The supplied template appears to match the three bolt holes on the snorkel, so is it the position on the guard that is out?

Cheers,

Hey Ron,
I found the position of the large hole to be slightly out and the fixing stud nearest to the hole to be out. The template appeared to be a photocopy which seemed to have lost some of the correct proportioning?!?

In the end i took the quarter panel completely off, installed the "dogs leg" bit, replaced the quarter panel, then drilled a 25cm hole into the correct spot, enlarging the hole with a series of drilled holes - finally finishing off with a half round file.
This way i was working from the airbox back to the final fixing of the snorkel, as opposed to fixing the snorkel only to find it's in the wrong spot:eek:

[RonMcGr]

Hey Ron,
I found the position of the large hole to be slightly out and the fixing stud nearest to the hole to be out. The template appeared to be a photocopy which seemed to have lost some of the correct proportioning?!?

In the end i took the quarter panel completely off, installed the "dogs leg" bit, replaced the quarter panel, then drilled a 25cm hole into the correct spot, enlarging the hole with a series of drilled holes - finally finishing off with a half round file.
This way i was working from the airbox back to the final fixing of the snorkel, as opposed to fixing the snorkel only to find it's in the wrong spot:eek:

Thanks Phill,

I guess that is why they have in big letters, "GUIDE ONLY" :D

Cheers

[CSR454]

The main purpose for a Snorkle is:
1: To enable water crossings without water entering the motor through the air intake, thus causing damage to the motor.
2: To enable clean air to enter, and not suck up dust from your own vehicle.
As to the RAM air theory of more power who are we kidding, we drive Landrover's, If you want more power buy a Sports bike.
As to the only problem with petrol vehicles just stalling in deep water crossings, because of the electrics. Where do you think all the water goes,once it has stalled, back up the exhaust and into the motor.!!
Check out this site for a great example:-
YouTube - Billing April 2007 Dad in VERY Deep Water In Lightweight!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mysp9FeOfd8)

85 110 3.9 County
95 130 Defender
Kawasaki ZX7R

[CSR454]

The main purpose for a Snorkle is:
1: To enable water crossings without water entering the motor through the air intake, thus causing damage to the motor.
2: To enable clean air to enter, and not suck up dust from your own vehicle.
As to the RAM air theory of more power who are we kidding, we drive Landrover's, If you want more power buy a Sports bike.
As to the only problem with petrol vehicles just stalling in deep water crossings, because of the electrics. Where do you think all the water goes,once it has stalled, back up the exhaust and into the motor.!!
Check out this site for a great example:-
YouTube - Billing April 2007 Dad in VERY Deep Water In Lightweight!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mysp9FeOfd8)

85 110 3.9 County
95 130 Defender
Kawasaki ZX7R

[procrastination inc]

Austin Champ Engine Bay (http://www.4wdonline.com/Mil/Champ/EngineBay.html)

my neighbour has one of these. Never taken it for a deep swim though

[DeeJay]

Austin Champ Engine Bay (http://www.4wdonline.com/Mil/Champ/EngineBay.html)

my neighbour has one of these. Never taken it for a deep swim though

I used to drive Champs in the army reserve in the early 70's, The water crossings were the best (only??) feature of them due to the marinised RR engine. There are probably a few seat squabs out in the ocean by now as they would float away in the streams:o:eek:
David

[feraldisco]

just wondering if anyone has fitted the 4WD Systems snorkle to a S2 Td5 Disco? - any problems with fitting this particular unit?

They're around $300 and available in colour coding:

::4WD Systems - Snorkels:: (http://www.4wdsystems.com.au/html/snorkels.htm)

[lambrover]

Hi there bulldog, I have posted somthing in the tech section 'Home made snorkel for disco, I made my own and it is great much better air flow I made it 80mm all the way through, have a look there are a few pics as well. I have a V8 disco