Transfer rubber mounts

[DRanged]

Hi all

Just want to run one by you all. I have always had a vibration in the engine- trans area at around 2000 - 2200.
I am thinking it could be the transfer case mounts. now when we installed the Isuzu into the RRC we used Isuzu engine mounts, but retained the V8 transfer case mounts. The Transfer is mounted with one rubber mount either side in a ''V'' configeration.. I have noticed on my diesel 4x4 work ute it has only one trans mount and its in the centre and is very flexible.

So should an Isuzu set up be very flexible or a bit ridgid.

Your thoughts and experiances and set ups may save me a lot of trials.

Justin

ps i am leaning towards the flexible option.

[harry]

justin, i think if you set up a single mount the torque would tear it out, even if you set it up so it was central to the load.
if you went for a flexible mount it would want to be one of the modern type mounts where the mounting would still carry the case even if the shock mount failed.
maybe those circular mountings where the outer is a circular bush and the engine / case attaches to a bush in the centre of that, can show you what i mean in the proton tomorrow if you like. if you're going to be home.

[DRanged]

justin, i think if you set up a single mount the torque would tear it out, even if you set it up so it was central to the load.
if you went for a flexible mount it would want to be one of the modern type mounts where the mounting would still carry the case even if the shock mount failed.
maybe those circular mountings where the outer is a circular bush and the engine / case attaches to a bush in the centre of that, can show you what i mean in the proton tomorrow if you like. if you're going to be home.

Will give you a call and catch up Harry as I will be in Lismore all tomorrow.
would like to have a look at the set up.

Justin

[JDNSW]

The 110 installation retains the same transfer case mounts as the V8s - at least the position is the same and they look the same. As for vibration, Isuzu engined 110s can be easily identified without looking at the engine, by the loose rivets!

The Isuzu engine has a number of advantages - smoothness is not one of them.

John

[DRanged]

The 110 installation retains the same transfer case mounts as the V8s - at least the position is the same and they look the same. As for vibration, Isuzu engined 110s can be easily identified without looking at the engine, by the loose rivets!

The Isuzu engine has a number of advantages - smoothness is not one of them.

John

Good point but I have had it smoother in the past, I wonder what the 110 engine mounts are from????

Justin

[Dougal]

I have some industrial AV mounts which I use at both engine mounts and both transfer case mounts.
Same envelope as the rover V8 ones (3" round, 1.5" thick with a M10 stud each side) but much softer.

They cost about $20 each I think, from TWL.

It lets the engine and gearlevers wobble around at idle without ratting the rest of the vehicle.

[DRanged]

I have some industrial AV mounts which I use at both engine mounts and both transfer case mounts.
Same envelope as the rover V8 ones (3" round, 1.5" thick with a M10 stud each side) but much softer.

They cost about $20 each I think, from TWL.

It lets the engine and gearlevers wobble around at idle without ratting the rest of the vehicle.

Thanks mate, what does TWL stand for.

Justin

[Dougal]

TWL = Transport Wholesale Ltd, a NZ truck parts supplier. But any industrial or automotive parts supplier should be able to get some. I'll try to throw up a picture later.

[KhunMoo]

Justin, my 110 3.9d has the std mounts and has an engine rpm related vibration at around 2000rpm. Mounts are all in good order so I won't try to fix it, just adjust speed when necessary to saty off the resonant point.

JohnS
(khunmoo)

[Dougal]

Here are two of them with a 3/8" ratchet for scale.

[DRanged]

Thanks john and Dougal for the info. Will have a protoype mount finished tomorrow so will see if the vibs decrease. Will also look for those softer mounts.

Thanks justin

[Larns]

That's weird Justin, mine is actually at it's smoothest at 2-2200rpm I usally try and keep the engine running at 2200 cruise speed. In 4th this means 80 in fith this means 105.
I think I do know the small vibration that your talking about though, mine is higher in the rev range however. around the 2400 rpm though. I just had put it down to my bodjied up rear propshatf, I really should go get it properly balanced sometime.

those different mounts sound interesting though, keep us posted.

Cheers

[DRanged]

That's weird Justin, mine is actually at it's smoothest at 2-2200rpm I usally try and keep the engine running at 2200 cruise speed. In 4th this means 80 in fith this means 105.
I think I do know the small vibration that your talking about though, mine is higher in the rev range however. around the 2400 rpm though. I just had put it down to my bodjied up rear propshatf, I really should go get it properly balanced sometime.

those different mounts sound interesting though, keep us posted.

Cheers

It could be 2400 as the RRC tacho may not be too acurate. Have made a custom crossmember using a GU nissan rubber mount. Much much smoother at idle as it lets the drive train move around. testing with some hard rock crawling tomorrow and will post pics if all goes well. This set up is on a LT230 by the way.

Justin

[Blknight.aus]

umm which vibration are ou trying to get rid of?

the one at idle or the one that they get when they are up near the top third of the rev range?

the one at idles easy, wind the idle up 50 or so rpm.

The one at the top end is a lot harder to get out of the engine but when it gets really bad its usually a sign of a hardened+cracked mount (usually the passangers side one) and occasionally the harmonic balancer being dead.

[sclarke]

Hi all

Just want to run one by you all. I have always had a vibration in the engine- trans area at around 2000 - 2200.
I am thinking it could be the transfer case mounts. now when we installed the Isuzu into the RRC we used Isuzu engine mounts, but retained the V8 transfer case mounts. The Transfer is mounted with one rubber mount either side in a ''V'' configeration.. I have noticed on my diesel 4x4 work ute it has only one trans mount and its in the centre and is very flexible.

So should an Isuzu set up be very flexible or a bit ridgid.

Your thoughts and experiances and set ups may save me a lot of trials.

Justin

ps i am leaning towards the flexible option.

OMG someone with an Isuzu has admitted they Vibrate.............
So when i tell you they rattle apart and destroy gearboxes if left idling for long periods, you might believe me???

[DRanged]

OMG someone with an Isuzu has admitted they Vibrate.............
So when i tell you they rattle apart and destroy gearboxes if left idling for long periods, you might believe me???

My R380 is 4 years old behind the Isuzu all off road work with plenty of idling. How many gearboxes has your Isuzu killed;)

Justin

[DRanged]

umm which vibration are ou trying to get rid of?

the one at idle or the one that they get when they are up near the top third of the rev range?

the one at idles easy, wind the idle up 50 or so rpm.

The one at the top end is a lot harder to get out of the engine but when it gets really bad its usually a sign of a hardened+cracked mount (usually the passangers side one) and occasionally the harmonic balancer being dead.

Thanks dave will check it out a bit closer, did have some cracks in it but did the normal mount check all ok. Might just order a new unit and replace it to be sure. Probably would be old age rather than use. 450hrs in 4 years. Can you get these mounts from Isuzu or are they a LR part. I cant remember where I ended up getting them. Have a feeling they were LR stock.

Justin

[Blknight.aus]

the mounts should be available from both sources...

if you have a close look, providing they are both standard rover mounts you will find that one has a rubber sleve over it and the other doesnt. if you can get both of them with the rubber sleve that seems to help the life of them.

(but you have to rememeber to wash inside the sleeve after you go fording or on the beach)

[Dougal]

So should an Isuzu set up be very flexible or a bit ridgid.

They've gotta be flexible mounts, otherwise you'll break stuff. Remember it's a big four cylinder with no balance shafts.

Mine rocks around maybe +/-15mm at idle on the mounts.

[Dougal]

So when i tell you they rattle apart and destroy gearboxes if left idling for long periods, you might believe me???

Not likely.:p

[Blknight.aus]

So when i tell you they rattle apart and destroy gearboxes if left idling for long periods, you might believe me???

oh paffle. they do not Ive never seen an isuzu destroy a gearbox...













the bearings shafts and gears inside the box, however, are another story.

[1103.9TDI]

I'm inclined not to leave mine in gear for too long, while it's idling, not just bad driving technique, but i'm sure it wouldn't do the thrust washer much good!. As for destroying gearboxes, fifth gear in my LT85 suffered a failure after 320,000KM, now giving a LT95 a workout, hopefully will do better!.


My R380 is 4 years old behind the Isuzu all off road work with plenty of idling.



Probably would be old age rather than use. 450hrs in 4 years.

Thats only 19 odd days of full on driving, should get better life than that if they were new when installed, four years also shouldn't be a problem. Maybe you should look at the angle the mounts are on, it may not be ideal for that particular mount.

[Dougal]

You guys really need to start using the Isuzu gearboxes. Ludicrously strong (but I'm sure someone here will break one) 5 gears with a good spread. Just need to sort out an easy retrofit for the cable change lever.

[DRanged]

I'm inclined not to leave mine in gear for too long, while it's idling, not just bad driving technique, but i'm sure it wouldn't do the thrust washer much good!. As for destroying gearboxes, fifth gear in my LT85 suffered a failure after 320,000KM, now giving a LT95 a workout, hopefully will do better!.





Thats only 19 odd days of full on driving, should get better life than that if they were new when installed, four years also shouldn't be a problem. Maybe you should look at the angle the mounts are on, it may not be ideal for that particular mount.

Fair point but 98% of that is with both lockers engaged turning 35'' Creepies under full load.:D Shortens my life sometimes I can tell you.

Justin

[DRanged]

You guys really need to start using the Isuzu gearboxes. Ludicrously strong (but I'm sure someone here will break one) 5 gears with a good spread. Just need to sort out an easy retrofit for the cable change lever.


Have you got an adaptor for sale to an LT230????????????

Justin

[Dougal]

Have you got an adaptor for sale to an LT230????????????

Justin

I can send you the model and drawings for the one I have. I plan to draw up a better adaptor, when I do the drawings will be shared.:)

If someone else wants to sort out the gearlever, we're sweet.:cool:

[DRanged]

I can send you the model and drawings for the one I have. I plan to draw up a better adaptor, when I do the drawings will be shared.:)

If someone else wants to sort out the gearlever, we're sweet.:cool:

I,ll be in that. What model gearbox is it??. I,ll keep an eye out and pick one up. Saves having to worry about the Santana bellhousing and the hard to get sandwich plate. Standard truck bell housing I assume.

justin

[DRanged]

the mounts should be available from both sources...

if you have a close look, providing they are both standard rover mounts you will find that one has a rubber sleve over it and the other doesnt. if you can get both of them with the rubber sleve that seems to help the life of them.

(but you have to rememeber to wash inside the sleeve after you go fording or on the beach)

Thanks Dave, drivers side has the rubber skirt over it, and both appear to have cracks in then, so I.ll be thinking you nailed it. Thanks again. Tested the new crossmember and mount and all is a lot smoother at idle.

Justin

[Dougal]

I,ll be in that. What model gearbox is it??. I,ll keep an eye out and pick one up. Saves having to worry about the Santana bellhousing and the hard to get sandwich plate. Standard truck bell housing I assume.

justin

Yep, standard NPR bellhousing. Gearbox models you want are the MSA series. Mine is an MSA-5G.

[DRanged]

Thanks to Dave as he nailed the cause. L/H engine mount had compressed and was as hard as nails. Obviously the foot they put on the mount is meant to hit the chassis when the mount is at the end of its life:D

If anyone needs a modified 17mm spanner to get the top nut off the mount let me know:cool:


Justin

[KhunMoo]

Interesting thread chaps. I replaced the LHS engine mount 3 yrs ago but the other three mounts are probably very old although appear intact. Might be worth while changing the others and see what happens in the noise & vibration dept.

I like the idea of switching to the Isuzu gearbox. My old LT95 never lets me down, but syncros are tired and I hate the wide spread of too few ratios for high range work. Never an issue in low range, as nearly any gear will do.

JohnS