Any comments on 4WD Action Top 5 Test, NO L/R

[Tank]

Looking at the Test criteria the Major points were, that the vehicles would be 4 door, capable of carrying the whole family and enough camping gear for major touring, cost around $60K and be a Turbo Diesel Automatic, and be extremely capable off road. So this criteria,i.e. Auto Transmission seems to rule out the Land Rover Defender. The Test vehicles were, Jeep Wrangler Sport, Nissan Pootrol ST-L wagon, Toyo Prado, Mitsubishi Pajero and the Hummer H3, so these were Australia's top 5 4wds. First up the Paj had to towed almost every awkward spot, poor interior space, low ground clearance, so the Paj certainly didn't meet the Criteria. The Jeep had even less interior space, low ground clearance, but it seems to have passed the Criteria. This one p's me off .The Hummer had a Petrol engine and a Manual g/box and bugger all interior space and still makes the cut.
So If the Land Rover Defender was excluded because it had a Manual g/box, it seems rather biased to me, the Defender would have won hands down.
I know it is only a Magazine test and it was B/S but I'd love to hear why the Land Rover was not included, what's the AULRO forum think, Regards Frank.

[jx2mad]

I reckon they are fighting for positions 2 downward. NOTHING CAN COMPARE TO THE DEFENDER!!!!!!! Jim

[hiline]

i reckon the mag is a waste of time :p

we all know whats best ;)

[Quarks]

i reckon the mag is a waste of time :p

we all know whats best ;)

Which, if I'm not mistaken, is why we're here, and they're there.

;)

[BMKal]

Sponsorship !!!!!

Land Rover hasn't been spending enough money with the mag so they don't rate.

They have had a couple of decent write-ups and articles on their DVD's on Land Rovers lately though, although it's a long time since I've seen anything on a D3 in any of their articles.

[stevo68]

Sponsorship !!!!!

Land Rover hasn't been spending enough money with the mag so they don't rate.

They have had a couple of decent write-ups and articles on their DVD's on Land Rovers lately though, although it's a long time since I've seen anything on a D3 in any of their articles.I know this came up in another thread about OL and sponsorship/advertising etc and I don't buy it. How many Jeep or Hummer ads have you seen, let alone Mitsubishi. What does surprise me based on what Tank has posted that they dont have the LC200 and that they have used such limited criteria. In fact I'd go so far as to say that it would seem more the criteria that OL would use as 4WD Action has a different market ie more off road orientated. So where is the Defender, where is the new LC70 etc. Seems a very small group to be selected,

Regards

Stevo

[TP7]

I think has something to do with what they did to the D3 on the Cape York FWDOTY a year or so back, when they thrasked it back and forth through the creek until it shut down.

If you were Land Rover would you give them another one?

[LRHybrid100]

even my misses piped up " wheres the Land Rover? "

LRH

[mns488]

I think has something to do with what they did to the D3 on the Cape York FWDOTY a year or so back, when they thrasked it back and forth through the creek until it shut down.

If you were Land Rover would you give them another one?

Thats what i understand the reason to be why the defender was not included; Landrover wouldn't give them one...

good or bad, who knows - i don't care.:)

[JDNSW]

Just possibly, the vehicles included may have been the only ones they could get the distributors to supply for a test in time to meet their deadline - and the article was shaped around the vehicles that were available.

John

[Tank]

I know this came up in another thread about OL and sponsorship/advertising etc and I don't buy it. How many Jeep or Hummer ads have you seen, let alone Mitsubishi. What does surprise me based on what Tank has posted that they dont have the LC200 and that they have used such limited criteria. In fact I'd go so far as to say that it would seem more the criteria that OL would use as 4WD Action has a different market ie more off road orientated. So where is the Defender, where is the new LC70 etc. Seems a very small group to be selected,

Regards

Stevo
Especially to then have the gall to name them the TOP 5 4WD's in Australia, Regards Frank.

[Tank]

Just possibly, the vehicles included may have been the only ones they could get the distributors to supply for a test in time to meet their deadline - and the article was shaped around the vehicles that were available.

John
I suppose that is very likely John, but why would they set such entry criteria when 3 of the vehicles were nowhere near the entry Criteria, Regards Frank

[JDNSW]

I suppose that is very likely John, but why would they set such entry criteria when 3 of the vehicles were nowhere near the entry Criteria, Regards Frank

The entry criteria were the only bit of the original article idea left - and they forgot to rewrite them to suit the available vehicles. Easy to do with a looming deadline!

John

[Ace]

Especially to then have the gall to name them the TOP 5 4WD's in Australia, Regards Frank.

well overlander did say that the 200 series was 4wd of the decade, so it just shows how much they know.

I agree that the reason for the lack of vehicles and the weird criteria would be because of a limited availability of vehicles, but why say diesl auto and include a petrol manual hummer, thats what confuses me.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Especially to then have the gall to name them the TOP 5 4WD's in Australia, Regards Frank.
How many mags would they sell if the heading was:

We test the only 5 vehicles the manufacturers would loan us!

or

4WD Shoot Out! We test 5 very average 4WD's

or

We test 5 wannabe 4WDs

No one would buy their mag!

Diana

[long stroke]

I just shook my head when i saw all the contestents bend side-steps on a pebble,when the defender wouldn't have noticed it.
Still can't understand why the best 4wd wasnt in the best 4wd of the year line up.

REGARDS

TIM..

[locorr]

There's a thread just started on 4wd action forum. No one knows what the hell it's all about. Can't see it winning to many fans doing crap like that.

[BMKal]

There's a thread just started on 4wd action forum. No one knows what the hell it's all about. Can't see it winning to many fans doing crap like that.

And as someone has already posted in that thread - "I wonder how long this thread will last ?"

I have noticed that 4WD Action is very quick to shut down or remove threads that are critical of the magazine.

There's some pretty strong criticism of the mag and DVD's in there, including "I am really finding it difficult to maintain respect for this mag. I reckon it has gone down hill under the current editor. Trying to do too much and doing none of it well".

I have generally liked the magazine and DVD's as a bit of light hearted entertainment, but it has deteriorated lately to the point that I wouldn't waste my money on a subscription. Even non Land Rover drivers are posting comments critical of this article - which is a bit usual on the 4WD Monthly forum - they're usually pretty quick to bag the Land Rovers and very defensive about their rice burners.

Oh well - who cares - we all know what would win if they ran a real comparison.

[CraigE]

Hang on, as you said $60k, TD and auto. I am not defending the mag at all as it is biased. But a Disco auto TD is more like $85k and a 200 series around $100-$130 (my boss just looked at buying one) so rules these out of the test. There are criteria to be met to be included in a test. If you tested all available it would be a very inconclusive test as far as what is available for a price or within certain test criteria.
Even if a Defender came out on top, modt people would shy away because lack of service support.

[Tango51]

Their forum benefits by some good people, BMKal and Utemad and that Yonk is a fair minded and talented character!

[Tank]

Hang on, as you said $60k, TD and auto. I am not defending the mag at all as it is biased. But a Disco auto TD is more like $85k and a 200 series around $100-$130 (my boss just looked at buying one) so rules these out of the test. There are criteria to be met to be included in a test. If you tested all available it would be a very inconclusive test as far as what is available for a price or within certain test criteria.
Even if a Defender came out on top, modt people would shy away because lack of service support.
The post is referring to why the Defender was not included as it meets all the criteria except for the Auto, as they allowed a Hummer with petrol engine and manual gearbox, why did they exclude the Defender, Regards Frank.

[Rangier Rover]

The post is referring to why the Defender was not included as it meets all the criteria except for the Auto, as they allowed a Hummer with petrol engine and manual gearbox, why did they exclude the Defender, Regards Frank.
Same reason I dont buy the mag anymore. :(:(

[wardy1]

Just thought I'd put my little entry to the 4WDA (still think 4wd monthly was a better name frankly) thread on here:

In years past, there has been a criteria that there must be a 'Significant change or improvement' (new engine, new technology or what ever) to qualify for the 4WDOTY test.

Can you please tell me and everyone else what is 'Significantly' different in either the Prado (the new diesel was out last year), the Pajero which has been virtually unchanged for at least 3 years, and last nut not least, the Patrola?

The Hummer failed on all counts of the stated critera and the Wrangler was not too flash in most departments either!

I don't really care whether you include this vehicle or that one, but if the criteria re set down, then you stick to them.

While I'm at it..... where did you get a LC200 deisel auto for $60 grand?

You have sold out jus t when my subscription is due

The video shows almost NOTHING of the tests you put the trucks through, it looked more like an ad for the NT (which is not so bad...but we all wanted to see you guys really TEST the trucks as you did last year on the Cape).

If I want to see 'soft' comparo's, I'll read another mag.
http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/images/statusicon/user_online.gif http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/report.php?p=673098) :

[barney]

i didn't even bother reading it. most of these comparisons are a waste of time and just provide fodder for meat heads to argue over the campfire.
even my wasted time is too valuable to waste on this rubbish

[Xavie]

i reckon the mag is a waste of time :p

we all know whats best ;)

Me too. Now someone has said that I have to say I think it is such crap. I think over the last 18 months it has declined continuously. I'm sure people will pounce on me for saying this but I think they are being paid out by some companies to endorse products which is wrong when they are doing all those reviews which people trust so much.

Xavier

[dungarover]

I too like many were dissapointed that there was no LR represented in the 4WDOTY, but then they can pick the **** out of everything else not the LR like most of these so called 'awards' are based on.

I don't mind the 4WDA forum, better than some out there and a good number of blokes actually have a clue what they're on about, also are a bit positive in many ways.

Trav

[Ace]

I had the pleasure of meeting some of the guys from 4wd monthly yesterday and after reading this thread the other day i was curious as to why the weird criteria aswell. Here is the response from the horses mouth.

The Hummer was included because they havent tested it all that much yet and it was put into the test simply for this reason, they wanted to compare it to some of the other vehicles.

The defender was not included in the test because the test was done 2 months before the intial launch so they couldnt include it as it had not been released prior to the test. Nothing underhanded or leaving land rover out or anything like that, it simply wasnt available. matt

[Tank]

I had the pleasure of meeting some of the guys from 4wd monthly yesterday and after reading this thread the other day i was curious as to why the weird criteria aswell. Here is the response from the horses mouth.

The Hummer was included because they havent tested it all that much yet and it was put into the test simply for this reason, they wanted to compare it to some of the other vehicles.

The defender was not included in the test because the test was done 2 months before the intial launch so they couldnt include it as it had not been released prior to the test. Nothing underhanded or leaving land rover out or anything like that, it simply wasnt available. matt
So in other words they tested whatever was available at the time and just off the top of their heads they decided to name this motley crew of available vehicles the Top 5 4WD's in Australia in a test to determine 2008's best 4WD, they have lost me, Regards Frank.

[Ace]

So in other words they tested whatever was available at the time and just off the top of their heads they decided to name this motley crew of available vehicles the Top 5 4WD's in Australia in a test to determine 2008's best 4WD, they have lost me, Regards Frank.

i am not saying i agree, thats just what they told me, i am a confused by the rationale as you are. It does seem like a weird lot of vehicles to test, and why bother typing that criteria if you werent going to abide by it.

[amtravic1]

I don't mind the 4WDA forum, better than some out there and a good number of blokes actually have a clue what they're on about, also are a bit positive in many ways.

Trav


I dont mind the forum there either. Like Trav says they are a decent bunch who seem to understand that we all like different vehicles.
I hope Brendon actually has some articles in the mag about his Rangie although perhaps they are scared about how it will make the Cruisers and Patrols look bad.

Ian

[Ace]

I dont mind the forum there either. Like Trav says they are a decent bunch who seem to understand that we all like different vehicles.
I hope Brendon actually has some articles in the mag about his Rangie although perhaps they are scared about how it will make the Cruisers and Patrols look bad.

Ian

i like the 4wd monthly forum, its much better than the overlander forum, you dont get treated like a lepper for owning a land rover on the 4wd monthly, sorry 4wd action, forum.

[Tank]

i like the 4wd monthly forum, its much better than the overlander forum, you dont get treated like a lepper for owning a land rover on the 4wd monthly, sorry 4wd action, forum.
Ace I wasn't suggesting you agreed with them, sorry if that's the impression that came across. I am a subscriber to 4WD Action (stupid name)and the stories have got shorter, their tech articles have gone down the gurgler, Roothy spins a good yarn, but lays the ocker **** on a bit too thick, but amusing. I used to frequent their Forum but it is so slow to load I gave up, Regards Frank.

[dungarover]

Tank, I have the same issue with 4WDA forum with thew downloading issues. It's slow as an old chook to load up sometimes :mad::mad::mad:

Ace, I don't have much time for Overlander forum to be quite honest. I find too many posts crap on endlessly and don't get to the topic at hand which is well controlled here thankfully. Also I was actually asked by admin to remove a signature that read 'Land Rover- Anything else is crap' because they felt that it would start conflict amongst the other owners of non-LR origin. I explained it was aimed as a bit of a light hearted joke but they wouldn't have it :( I still have a bit of a surf but hardly post these days.

Trav

[Wortho]

The defender was not included in the test because the test was done 2 months before the intial launch so they couldnt include it as it had not been released prior to the test. Nothing underhanded or leaving land rover out or anything like that, it simply wasnt available. matt


The 200 is in it they decided to do the test in two parts cause the 200 was going to come out so they waited, could'nt they have waited for the Defender?. Also 200 is way more than 60k, Also it seems that they have already decided it wins cause they say that the best of the rest takes on the 200 in the final, how can it already be in the final.

[rumman43]

The 200 is in it they decided to do the test in two parts cause the 200 was going to come out so they waited, could'nt they have waited for the Defender?. Also 200 is way more than 60k, Also it seems that they have already decided it wins cause they say that the best of the rest takes on the 200 in the final, how can it already be in the final.


Right on!!!
i got off the rig yesterday..got home and unwrapped my prized subscrition....was GUTTED...
the mag b4 they test the defender
they have criteria...BUT dont follow it...
lets all bow down to the 200 series....$88,000 drive away in wa ...
Gutted...really really disappointed...dont care if the defender doesn't win atest..just dont talk sh@t bout criteria then ignore it...What was new bout the prado????
cant talk am sooooo unhappy right now..

[CraigE]

Right on!!!
i got off the rig yesterday..got home and unwrapped my prized subscrition....was GUTTED...
the mag b4 they test the defender
they have criteria...BUT dont follow it...
lets all bow down to the 200 series....$88,000 drive away in wa ...
Gutted...really really disappointed...dont care if the defender doesn't win atest..just dont talk sh@t bout criteria then ignore it...What was new bout the prado????
cant talk am sooooo unhappy right now..
$88k drive away for the base. My boss just got quoted $120-$130k for one with all the fruit. He was looking at this because they need something comfortable to cover high mileage, some 4wd but not huge amounts and ease of service. He is now leaning towards the Jeep Grand Cherokee or laredo or whatever it is called. Similarly optioned for $76k.

[CraigE]

As said these tests never include all vehicles in the category, just some for comparrison and what is available to test at the time. You need to put these tests in context and cross reference various tests. To test all cars all the time would be impossible and only have 1 test per year.

[BigJon]

The main problem I have with the Overlander forum is a technical one.
When you wave your cursor over a link for a topic, it doesn't show the first line or two of the thread the way it does here or at 4WD Action.
This means you have to open each individual topic to see if it might interest you, because often the topic title doesn't give much away.

I also find the layout a little dull, but maybe it is because I am used to the best forum on the net - This one :D.