ARB locker falling apart?

[Utemad]

Hi guys,

Who here has an ARB air locker that has had it fall apart?

I have a thump in the rear at the moment and I took it to the mechanic and he said that it appears to be the rear diff and that sometimes the ARB lockers separate and cause a thump.

It is booked in with them to get fixed but that is three weeks away so thought I'd get some thoughts in the meantime.
I've got no dramas getting the thing out of the housing but just wanted to know what I'd be looking at once I do. If I do.

The locker is an RD56 or whatever the 24 spline locker is. Was fitted by ARB Gympie about 12-15 months ago and not had a great deal of use.

Thanks.

[rovercare]

Pull it out of the housing first, then ask questions, dont continue to drive it:eek:

[Utemad]

Yeah not keen to drive it as is. I'm going to drop the tailshaft and pull the axles now. Then pull the diff out tomorrow afternoon. What I know about diffs could be written on a pin head.

[harry]

watching with interest.

[dck7aok]

I have brocken 2 rear lockers in my discoverys. Same failure. Side plate - crown wheel side bearing carrier. First one broke after axle failure. Second unknown.....ARB was very difficult to deal with but noise on a Sat morning in large show room soon let to progression. I only paid for new seals etc.
Makes a inconsisten clunk depending load as axle carries diff centre load. Can usually feel a difference in rotation of pinion as turned.

[Ken]

You would have to ask the question as to weather the backlash and preload were correcrly set at the time of instalation
hard to do once the drama has happened

[rovercare]

Yeah not keen to drive it as is. I'm going to drop the tailshaft and pull the axles now. Then pull the diff out tomorrow afternoon. What I know about diffs could be written on a pin head.

Yep, need to pull it out and post some pics, I'll take you through it:eek:

But asking possabilitys, well...........collapsed pinion bearing, carrier bearing, loose bearings, crown wheel loose, carrier bearing caps loose, cross pin ****ed, blah blah, you see the point:D

[Utemad]

Well I have it up on axle stands with the wheels and drive shaft off.

I cannot replicate the big thump but I'm not putting anything like the power the engine would be putting through it.

There is not much play in the diff that I can tell. If you measure around the circle that is the mud cover in relation to the diff housing I would say that there is about 1-2mm movement before the diff gears engage. Would think that is normal.

I'll go and pull the axles and drive it to work on the front and see if it thumps tomorrow. If it does it will rule out the rear diff if nothing else.

[Utemad]

Yep, need to pull it out and post some pics, I'll take you through it:eek:

But asking possabilitys, well...........collapsed pinion bearing, carrier bearing, loose bearings, crown wheel loose, carrier bearing caps loose, cross pin ****ed, blah blah, you see the point:D

I appreciate the help. I do know that the locker has lots of bits in it but I think it quite funny that given that it is a Land Rover that the one thing that fails is the non LR part that is meant to be tough :censored:

[rovercare]

Dont sound like the diff, checked a frame ball joint AND the arm rubbers??

[Utemad]

I have brocken 2 rear lockers in my discoverys. Same failure. Side plate - crown wheel side bearing carrier. First one broke after axle failure. Second unknown.....ARB was very difficult to deal with but noise on a Sat morning in large show room soon let to progression. I only paid for new seals etc.
Makes a inconsisten clunk depending load as axle carries diff centre load. Can usually feel a difference in rotation of pinion as turned.

I have considered that if it is a ARB failure that I'll pay them a visit. I don't know what the warranty is but these things are meant to be tough and I've barely used it in anger. I might just use it in anger against their glass cabinet though on a busy day as you say :D

[Utemad]

Dont sound like the diff, checked a frame ball joint AND the arm rubbers??

A frame balljoint is new as are all the arm bushes front and rear. All done within the last 2 months.

At the mechanics he got under it as we rocked it back and forth fairly violently and he said all was well.

The thump happens when you go over a speed bump and is worse with people in the back seat. Also in first and 2nd gear when you give it some. Also get small thumps whenever it feels like it. However almost never when you are not on the throttle such as rolling down a hill or coasting. Even if you go over bumps.

[Utemad]

You would have to ask the question as to weather the backlash and preload were correcrly set at the time of instalation
hard to do once the drama has happened

It was done by ARB Gympie but they didn't leave me feeling confident in their work/knowledge on Land Rovers.
They seemed to be Nissan/Toyota parts fitters.

[rovercare]

It was done by ARB Gympie but they didn't leave me feeling confident in their work/knowledge on Land Rovers.
They seemed to be Nissan/Toyota parts fitters.

Meh, they're all banjo style centres, so much of a muchness when seating up a locker, not to say they didn't stuff it up:D

[Utemad]

I just pulled my axles out. Well the long side just came out but my short side won't come out as I just dicovovered my garage is just that little bit too narrow :( Must investigate the next house purchase more thoroughly.

Anyway what is the deal with my axles? I thought they had removable end caps but my end cap is part of the axle?
HRC2495 is on the end cap.

[Utemad]

Just found something.....................would the fact that my driver's side wheel bearings have more rust/water than grease make the noise I'm chasing? Has more movement in it than it should but I that must be recent as it had no movement two weeks or so ago when I checked it (rocking wheel when jacked up).

By more rust/water than grease I mean it in a HOLEY MOTHER OF GOD!!!!!!!!!! sort of way.

[DeeJay]

I had a big saga in Gympie on my long service leave last year & the local RACQ guy diagnosed the clunk as worn Uni's in the rear, Same symtoms as yours too.
Turned out to be pass side wheel bearings.
Dore bros were great.
If you have an hour I can go into the details:)
David

[Utemad]

Thanks Deejay.

I have looked at the UJs on my tailshaft. Easy when it is on the floor. They seem fine. I have a spare UJ on the shelf though if need be.

I have the Disco back together now. Minus the tailshaft so I can see if it thumps with no rear drive.
It now has oil lubed driver's side wheel bearings. I'll get new bearings for it though and fit them shortly. I had the oil seal for the hub on the shelf. Been meaning to do it for a while. Front was done a while ago.

[isuzurover]

Justin - rusty/dieing wheel bearings could definitely be making lots of noise. Did you try turning the wheel when it was jacked up and the axle out???

I know of ONE case where an ARB was installed by a dodgy workshop who didn't use loctite, and the hemisphere bolts undid themselves and everything fell apart. But that is rare.

[Utemad]

I turned the hub with the wheel off and the axle out. It had some movement and sounded like dry bearings (which it was). Interesting as it didn't sound any different to the others with the wheel on as per normal. I know the fronts are okay as I had them apart not that long ago.

There was no thump on the way to work this morning.
So this afternoon I'll convert the passenger side bearing to oil lubed and reinstall the driveshaft.
If the thumping continues after that I'll drop the tailshaft again for the rest of the week and then pull the diff out on the weekend.

[trobbo]

I have had 2 arb diff lock failures. Both times the bearing end carrier broke. In both instances I didn't have any prior warning of the impending failure, although running simex's makes these noises harder to hear.
It appears that the cause of my failure was a modification done by jacMac to machine the opening to allow fitment of larger axles. (this was before the factory 24 spline axle was released). As previously said the ARB lockers are usually very strong and I haven't had any drama's with the replacement lockers made for the 24 spline axle.

[BigJon]

I know of ONE case where an ARB was installed by a dodgy workshop who didn't use loctite, and the hemisphere bolts undid themselves and everything fell apart. But that is rare.

We have a diff here with ARB locker that had the crownwheel retaining bolts come loose. Didn't do any favours for the entire assembly :eek:.

[Bush65]

With the 24 spline axles, the carrier bearing size was changed to improve the strength of the carrier.

This is why it is so expensive to convert a 10 spline ARB to 24 spline (you can just change side gears to take 24 spline axles, but lots more parts are needed to use the stronger carrier).

I recall on a UK forum (lr4x4) (http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php#) some have had ARB lockers fail and from memory it was a plastic part inside. You should a post there about it from white90

[JamesH]

It seems from all the diff lock threads that I should file diff locks in the same catagory as swimming pools and boats. It's great to be friends with someone who has one but too much trouble to own yourself.:angel:

[Rosco]

It seems from all the diff lock threads that I should file diff locks in the same catagory as swimming pools and boats. It's great to be friends with someone who has one but too much trouble to own yourself.:angel:

:thumbsup::whistling::lol2:

[DeeJay]

Thanks Deejay.

I have looked at the UJs on my tailshaft. Easy when it is on the floor. They seem fine. I have a spare UJ on the shelf though if need be.

I have the Disco back together now. Minus the tailshaft so I can see if it thumps with no rear drive.
It now has oil lubed driver's side wheel bearings. I'll get new bearings for it though and fit them shortly. I had the oil seal for the hub on the shelf. Been meaning to do it for a while. Front was done a while ago.

What I meant was the RACQ mis-diagnosed the problem. I'll take odds bet its your wheel bearings and taking off the tailshaft may well eliminate the clunk as its torque related.
My pennyworth, I doubt its the ARB itself.
David

[Utemad]

I got what you meant Deejay. Just thought I'd check it too :)

[Utemad]

I dropped the diff out tonight. I know bugger all about diffs but nothing seems loose. All the bolts are tight that I can check.
The locker itself has lots of small bolts that hold it together around its edge and they have locking tabs. Can't see them all without taking the locker out and I'm not keen on that.
The 4 bearing bolts are tight.

I'm guess it isn't the diff then.

It has to be something that is affected by the torque of the rear drive.

[uninformed]

It seems from all the diff lock threads that I should file diff locks in the same catagory as swimming pools and boats. It's great to be friends with someone who has one but too much trouble to own yourself.:angel:
better stay in your box then..... life might upset you


arbs like any brand are only as good as the installation!!!!!

i have done 130000km on my maxi drive... no problems

plenty arbs and jac macs would be the same......

serg

[Utemad]

Well today I thought I may as well swap the tailshaft and see if that is the cause of the clunk.

I fitted a 4 bolt uni to uni tailshaft to get rid of the donut back in October last year. So I removed it and refitted the donut tailshaft. Luckily I managed to remove all the 3 bolt flange bits without damaging them and the donut is mostly ok (beginning to crack but no vibes yet).

Anyway I took it for a flogging round the block and didn't get a single clunk.
So at this stage I'd say the problem has been found.
Not sure what it is about the shaft that is the issue. The unis appear fine but the splines have a little bit of slop. I've seen a lot worse with no clunk/thump mind you.

I'll take the whole shaft to Driveline Services and get their opinion.

[Utemad]

Also just as a side thing, the original shaft has the male bit as part of the yoke but the uni-uni shaft has the male bit as part of the shaft. I was told it was off a Disco1 pre update (mine is a post update).

Is either type better?