bloody road works

[Ace]

They have ripped the road up out the front and down the hill towards the jail, now dont get me wrong it was well and truely over due, but its such a pain in the ****.

When they are cutting the tar out or using the rollers the whole hill shakes, and its that really low frequency vibration and it hurts your ears and shakes all the windows etc.

When they are working we continuosly get booted off the net aswell, it doesnt happen when they have knocked off so something they are doing is affecting the phone line.

We have had some heavy rain over the last couple of days aswell so now its turned to slush. Its funny cause every car in town is covered in the off white coloured slush from the road base.

When its done it will be great, i was sick of small car sized pot holes every time it rained but their site office is right over the road so its noisy as hell during the day, all i can say is i am glad i am not home for most of it.

[LandyAndy]

Hey Ace
Give up teaching man and get a job on "The Black Tar Gang":twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:
You just posted our favourite complaint:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
"I WANT MY ROAD FIXED BUT DONT WANT TO PUT UP WITH THE HASSLE":D:D:D:D:D
Andrew

[cjc_td5]

Yep, that section of highway near the Mudgee turnoff is well due for some love and attention.

If you are having problems with vibration from the roadworks, go and see a site supervisor TOMORROW. Roadworks contractors are usually receptive to resident complaints and might be able to change their workpractices to reduce nuisance to you. If nothing else, you have to let them know of your complaint sooner rather than later if there is the slightest chance of you ever having a claim against them later (for vibration damage, loss of business etc).

[Lotz-A-Landies]

"Road works" Isn't that a tautology?

Diana ;)

[Ace]

It doesnt bother me that much, the end product will be worth it. I understand the work they need to do (any you Landyandy ;)) and that alot of people probably complain about it all the time, but its only for a few months and they will slowly work their way down the hill away from the house so it wont even bother us that long.

But as you say it needed doing badly, it stuffs me how their havent been more accidents, some of those pot holes were massive.

[LandyAndy]

You may have a polite chat with the works manager,but the vibration wont stop.
Compaction standards have to be met.They are tested on every section.If it fails you pull it all out and start again,AND AGAIN if it fails the tests till the correct levels are met.
Its all part of the job Im afraid!!!!
Andrew

[Ace]

You may have a polite chat with the works manager,but the vibration wont stop.
Compaction standards have to be met.They are tested on every section.If it fails you pull it all out and start again,AND AGAIN if it fails the tests till the correct levels are met.
Its all part of the job Im afraid!!!!
Andrew

i wouldnt waste the guys time, as you say its par for the course. It wont last forever and the slight hassle over the next couple of months will be worth it. I would rather it was done properly and put up with some vibration and noise than have it the way it was.

[graceysdad]

Hells bells you want road works come to this hole for look, they resurface roads here that dont need it as the Local Government allocates a huge budget for roads and i mean huge, every couple years we get a re seal job, they just spray the black gook on the road and tip light wieght gravel everywhere, so this is good for the windscreen shops, just as the risk of losing a screen has abated the goons come and reseal what was just resealed, its madness, our roads here are like bowling pin alleys, a real genuine waste of resources, and the roundabout things they must plant a seed and the next day a roundy bout is there where it wasnt the day before.

[B92 8NW]

"Road works" Isn't that a tautology?

Diana ;)

Nope, but "Microsoft Works" is:D

(sorry Bill, I didn't mean it, you're still my hero:angel:)

[cjc_td5]

Work practices can be changed to reduce effects on adjacent properties. Changing the vibration frequency can change vibration travel (though it does also change compaction performance) or if serious enough, use dead weight compaction instead of vibration (though usually only warranted in heavily built up areas with heritage houses close etc.).

[Ace]

Hells bells you want road works come to this hole for look, they resurface roads here that dont need it as the Local Government allocates a huge budget for roads and i mean huge, every couple years we get a re seal job, they just spray the black gook on the road and tip light wieght gravel everywhere, so this is good for the windscreen shops, just as the risk of losing a screen has abated the goons come and reseal what was just resealed, its madness, our roads here are like bowling pin alleys, a real genuine waste of resources, and the roundabout things they must plant a seed and the next day a roundy bout is there where it wasnt the day before.

Its the opposite here, and when they do fix the road the dig up the soft section that has ruined the surface and refill and then patch it up. Then 3 weeks later the same thing has happened. The did one patch over the road from a servo that sees alot of trucks pull in and out. After a week the patch fell appart and the holes would nearly throw you off the road. There was a 4in gap between the patch and the main part of the road running in the direction of traffic. The whole section of highway between our house and lithgow needs to be ripped up and replaced its absolute rubbish. So what they are doing now is the worst bit and is a good start

[LandyAndy]

"Road works" Isn't that a tautology?

Diana ;)
Till you have been there and done it you will never know the full story.
A daily drive thru a job doesnt give any sort of an idea whats actually happening on the ground.
People make jokes about roadworkers standing around doing nothing all day but have ABSOLOUTELEY NO IDEA of the thousands of tonnes of dirt that are used/shifted/removed/delivered in a day!!!!
And it still may LOOK the same as your last trip thru.
The last 2 days Ive been re-building a problem corner on a road.Gravel road,the job was botched last summer by 2 previous shire employees that should have know lots better.I was given 3 days each for 2 bad bends.Just did the first in 2 days and the next is easier.
No more gravel carted,it took a week for 2x6 wheelers and 1 semi-trailer side tipper last time for each bend.
So dividing the road down the centre over a 500m section,I have pulled out all the gravel delivered plus the underlying road.Mixed around 200000lts of water into it and had my rollers bash it down as I go.
Still looks the same to the passerby but hopefully now their gravel will hold together as it should have the first time arond.
Andrew

[Bigbjorn]

After a nasty incident of damage to houses in Lismore quite some distance from the road works site, NSW Main roads issued an instruction that the big Pacific V36 drawn vibrating rollers were not to be used if a building could be seen!

[Ace]

After a nasty incident of damage to houses in Lismore quite some distance from the road works site, NSW Main roads issued an instruction that the big Pacific V36 drawn vibrating rollers were not to be used if a building could be seen!

The RTA or whoever the is in charge sent in people the week before it all started and had vibration sensors fitted around the area, one of which is somewhere near our block, and they inspected the house for damage so if the work causes any we are covered.

I am not so much bitching about the work that is being done, sure its a pain in the but, but unlike those who just whinge because they have nothing to do i appreciate the job being done and know the end product will be worth it. It doesnt make it any less of a pain though, but i will live.

[George130]

Hells bells you want road works come to this hole for look, they resurface roads here that dont need it as the Local Government allocates a huge budget for roads and i mean huge, every couple years we get a re seal job, they just spray the black gook on the road and tip light wieght gravel everywhere, so this is good for the windscreen shops, just as the risk of losing a screen has abated the goons come and reseal what was just resealed, its madness, our roads here are like bowling pin alleys, a real genuine waste of resources, and the roundabout things they must plant a seed and the next day a roundy bout is there where it wasnt the day before.

Yes but in Canberra the pot holes that do exist are never fixed properly. They just fill it with a patch that is buggered in a month. Next year they do it again wit the same effect.

Out our way they are cutting big chunks of the freeway out and replacing the concrete. No real hassle except that you have to slow down to 80.

[LandyAndy]

Hi Ace and others.
the re-appearing wet spot failures in roads are caused by road trains.
When we are "working" moisture thru the job there are 2 rollers used,a rubber tyred and a vibe roller.
The rubber tyre roller draws water to the surface,the vibe roller pushes the moisture down.
Working together they keep the moisture balance how you want it for the dirt you are working.
Roadtrains draw the water caused by environmental isues(farming/land clearing etc) to the surface.We have dug wetspots out of sealed roads over 12ft deep!!!!
Andrew

[Ace]

Hi Ace and others.
the re-appearing wet spot failures in roads are caused by road trains.
When we are "working" moisture thru the job there are 2 rollers used,a rubber tyred and a vibe roller.
The rubber tyre roller draws water to the surface,the vibe roller pushes the moisture down.
Working together they keep the moisture balance how you want it for the dirt you are working.
Roadtrains draw the water caused by environmental isues(farming/land clearing etc) to the surface.We have dug wetspots out of sealed roads over 12ft deep!!!!
Andrew

They dont have any of the rubber ones LA, they have the smooth metal rollers and the ones bumpy ones (correct terminology?) Why would that be?

[LandyAndy]

I bet your dirt is clay!!!!
Ruber tyre rollers/clay dont stay on the road too long.
I would think they will have the rubber tyres in later.
We are blessed with gravel over here,with the correct amount of clay/moisture blended in it sets as hard as cement.
We have a set of "sheeps feet" for our vibe roller,only fitted whe there is a high clay content in the soil.
Andrew

[B92 8NW]

Till you have been there and done it you will never know the full story.
A daily drive thru a job doesnt give any sort of an idea whats actually happening on the ground.
People make jokes about roadworkers standing around doing nothing all day but have ABSOLOUTELEY NO IDEA of the thousands of tonnes of dirt that are used/shifted/removed/delivered in a day!!!!
And it still may LOOK the same as your last trip thru.
The last 2 days Ive been re-building a problem corner on a road.Gravel road,the job was botched last summer by 2 previous shire employees that should have know lots better.I was given 3 days each for 2 bad bends.Just did the first in 2 days and the next is easier.
No more gravel carted,it took a week for 2x6 wheelers and 1 semi-trailer side tipper last time for each bend.
So dividing the road down the centre over a 500m section,I have pulled out all the gravel delivered plus the underlying road.Mixed around 200000lts of water into it and had my rollers bash it down as I go.
Still looks the same to the passerby but hopefully now their gravel will hold together as it should have the first time arond.
Andrew

Andrew,

Here's a quick question I think you could answer. On a stretch of C road in South Gippy there is a bend that has been built but the camber slopes the wrong way. So instead of making the vehicle more stable and riding flatter in the bend, it facilitates roll overs.

Is there a regulation regarding this or is the camber not a legal requirement and put there for comfort?

[Ace]

Andrew,

Here's a quick question I think you could answer. On a stretch of C road in South Gippy there is a bend that has been built but the camber slopes the wrong way. So instead of making the vehicle more stable and riding flatter in the bend, it facilitates roll overs.

Is there a regulation regarding this or is the camber not a legal requirement and put there for comfort?

There is a corner like that near here, its at the bottom of a very steep hill on the way to mudgee, if you go around it to fast it sucks you into oncoming traffic, but putting a big reduce speed now sign is much easier and cheaper than fixing it.

LA, i dont know if its that high in clay, the graders are spreading it out at the moment, its grey in colour but the paste that is being formed with the rain is nearly white.

[tombraider]

Nope, but "Microsoft Works" is:D

(sorry Bill, I didn't mean it, you're still my hero:angel:)

And now 1.6 billion $$$ poorer!!

[abaddonxi]

There is a corner like that near here, its at the bottom of a very steep hill on the way to mudgee, if you go around it to fast it sucks you into oncoming traffic, but putting a big reduce speed now sign is much easier and cheaper than fixing it.

LA, i dont know if its that high in clay, the graders are spreading it out at the moment, its grey in colour but the paste that is being formed with the rain is nearly white.

Porcelain.

Cheers
Simon

[LandyAndy]

Hi Joel/Ace
Do they have YELLOW speed signs less than the rest of the road???
If not they should,complain to your relevent authoritory.
The yellow sighs indicate the max recomended safest speed on the bend.
Your regulatory signs black on white state the max roadspeed.
What everybody misses is you have to "drive to conditions" ie its the drivers responsability to drive at the safe speed to suit road conditions at the time.
Its a big grey area,and Im sure if your insurance co can prove you arent"driving to conditions" you get no payout.
We get plenty trying to sue the shire for a write-off after an insurance refusal.
No winning claims yet!!!
Andrew

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Till you have been there and done it you will never know the full story. ...

... Andrew
Andrew

I'm not having a go at road workers, I'm having a go at transport management engineers. "The road works".

How many new roads have been designed with the camber on a corner sloping the wrong way? e.g. Princes Highway and Foxground Road near Berry NSW.
Intersections where the alignment of the road/lane changes half way across the intersection. Princess Highway (northbound) and old Princess Highway Loftus NSW.
Major Highways that get built with less lanes the closer they get to the City - Hume Highway to M5 East NSW.
Bus stops put before an intersection so that all traffic gets stopped by the right turn at the same intersection. Cleveland Street (westbound) and Crown Street Surry Hills NSW.
Destination Road Signs placed after the intersection. General Holmes Drive and Southern Cross Drive (Northbound) Mascot NSW.
Synchronising of traffic lights everywhere.
Building huge shopping developments, with multiple unsynchronised traffic lights - when the developer should have been required to put overpasses. Windsor Road - Rouse Hill Town Centre NSW

Should I go on?

Diana

[B92 8NW]

Less lanes closer to the city... ha! The Feds must love Victoria, 320 km of dual carriageway bliss for us:D:D

[LandyAndy]

Andrew

I'm not having a go at road workers, I'm having a go at transport management engineers. "The road works".

How many new roads have been designed with the camber on a corner sloping the wrong way? e.g. Princes Highway and Foxground Road near Berry NSW.
Intersections where the alignment of the road/lane changes half way across the intersection. Princess Highway (northbound) and old Princess Highway Loftus NSW.
Major Highways that get built with less lanes the closer they get to the City - Hume Highway to M5 East NSW.
Bus stops put before an intersection so that all traffic gets stopped by the right turn at the same intersection. Cleveland Street (westbound) and Crown Street Surry Hills NSW.
Destination Road Signs placed after the intersection. General Holmes Drive and Southern Cross Drive (Northbound) Mascot NSW.
Synchronising of traffic lights everywhere.
Building huge shopping developments, with multiple unsynchronised traffic lights - when the developer should have been required to put overpasses. Windsor Road - Rouse Hill Town Centre NSWShould I go on?

Diana
No Need at all!!!
Everything you list has nothing to do with us blokes shifting the dirt.
you build what you are told to!!!!
You put up the signs you are given!!!!
Cambers that are wrong,hard call.
Just done 2 bends where the camber cant possibly shaped as they need to be.
Ive driven heaps an said its all the wrong camber,drive a grader and try and rectify,not always possible due to the next bend,fill required and a lot of other stuff.
Never been over to see the roads you are talking about.
Andrew

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Less lanes closer to the city... ha! The Feds must love Victoria, 320 km of dual carriageway bliss for us:D:D
I love Melbourne urban roads!

How many lanes has the Northern Ring Road* got? Is it 8 or 10 in places it is great and it's free. Our Sydney equivalent the M7 has 4 lanes with a toll, the road sits on the crown of an embankment with no emergency lane and a down hill slope to a concrete wall. (The road works - it killed a woman in the first week it was open.)

The big problem with Melbourne is that my Navman gets all confused and wants to send me down Hoddle Street, when I want to go from the Hume Freeway to Pakenham.

Diana

* Or is it the Metropolitan Ring Road?- my Navman is confused about that as well!

[Lotz-A-Landies]

No Need at all!!!
...
Cambers that are wrong,hard call.
Just done 2 bends where the camber cant possibly shaped as they need to be.
Ive driven heaps an said its all the wrong camber,drive a grader and try and rectify,not always possible due to the next bend,fill required and a lot of other stuff.
Never been over to see the roads you are talking about.
Andrew
The bend in question is an awkward one, I have driven past several fatal crashes at that intersection over 40 years. There have probably been dozens of serious crashes and probably tens of fatalities over the years.

It is a 2 lane road and LH 90 degree bend on a relatively steep down hill with an intersection to the right of the crown of the bend and it all slopes steeply to the right. Semi trailers come around the corner and understeer onto the wrong side of the road and collide head on.

It was on the National Highways during the Frazer years but is now a State responsibility for who knows why?

Diana

[abaddonxi]

A friend wrote off her Charger on that corner.

Cheers
Simon

[Ace]

Hi Joel/Ace
Do they have YELLOW speed signs less than the rest of the road???
If not they should,complain to your relevent authoritory.
The yellow sighs indicate the max recomended safest speed on the bend.
Your regulatory signs black on white state the max roadspeed.
What everybody misses is you have to "drive to conditions" ie its the drivers responsability to drive at the safe speed to suit road conditions at the time.
Its a big grey area,and Im sure if your insurance co can prove you arent"driving to conditions" you get no payout.
We get plenty trying to sue the shire for a write-off after an insurance refusal.
No winning claims yet!!!
Andrew

not yellow, white with the red circle but same thing. It goes down from 110 one way and 100 from the other direction to 60 then to 40 and the highway patrol are in there several times a day

[Ace]

No Need at all!!!
Everything you list has nothing to do with us blokes shifting the dirt.
you build what you are told to!!!!
You put up the signs you are given!!!!
Cambers that are wrong,hard call.
Just done 2 bends where the camber cant possibly shaped as they need to be.
Ive driven heaps an said its all the wrong camber,drive a grader and try and rectify,not always possible due to the next bend,fill required and a lot of other stuff.
Never been over to see the roads you are talking about.
Andrew

Why cant the camber be shaped the right way on some corners? Surely you just pile more dirt on the outside to raise it up

[Redback]

Why cant the camber be shaped the right way on some corners? Surely you just pile more dirt on the outside to raise it up

Doesn't work that way Matt, that would create other problems over time with the constant traffic using the road, eventually the bank would fail, which would cause more problems.

Baz.

[Ace]

Doesn't work that way Matt, that would create other problems over time with the constant traffic using the road, eventually the bank would fail, which would cause more problems.

Baz.

Yeah, i didnt think of that. It just goes to show when people bitch about roads they have little understanding of what goes into it all

[Lotz-A-Landies]

The big problem with fixing these problems is "road works" - in the Foxground case they will have to excavate a more even grade and better alignment to the curve. This means a lot of road works on the only all weather heavy traffic road from Kiama to Berry. No one wants to divert all traffic 100Km via Kangaroo Valley and Robertson on the highlands to fix this black spot.

[Bigbjorn]

I bet your dirt is clay!!!!
Ruber tyre rollers/clay dont stay on the road too long.
I would think they will have the rubber tyres in later.
We are blessed with gravel over here,with the correct amount of clay/moisture blended in it sets as hard as cement.
We have a set of "sheeps feet" for our vibe roller,only fitted whe there is a high clay content in the soil.
Andrew

Sheep's foot rollers are only drawn static rollers. The vibrating ones are pad foot. Pad/sheep's foot rollers should only be used on puggy (clay) material. Unfortunately many contractors use what they have, not what is right.

Andy, your pad foot shells are the Cheap Charlie solution to having a dual purpose vibrating compactor. The shire should really have bought two rollers or another complete drum and vibrator assembly which can be pretty quickly interchanged. Putting shells over a drum is the equivalent of a blacksmith putting a piece of metal on an anvil and belting it repeatedly with a big hammer.

Pneumatic multi-tyre rollers are very good at squeezing the moisture out of the voids in the fill, particularly if you have air-on-the-run. you can let the tyres down and get the roller onto a wet site and gradually bring the pressure up every so many passes and watch the water being squeezed out and running away. A drum roller will bridge over soft patches and leave them soft, whereas a multi-tyre will get down into them and compact them and then you put the drum roller over for final passes if necessary. A multi-tyre should be able to bring your compaction up to 94ASHO in most cases without the drum roller being used. Multis are also brilliant at finishing bitumen, contrary to the opinions of many. There are places and applications for both types.

[cjc_td5]

LandyAndy, sheepfoot/padfoot rollers are very common here in NSW as just about everywhere is clayey. Sheepfoot rollers are rare in WA due to clay being relatively rare (mostly sandy and gravels). Most pavement compaction is done by sheepfoot and steel drum rollers. They still have multi-tyred rollers but are only used for final trim and seal rolling etc.

You would find the roadworks signage very different in NSW to WA. The biggest difference is that speed limit buffering is very rarely used, the speed reduction tends to be 100km/h straight to down to 60 or 40km/h (ie no 80km/h buffer zone). Another example of the "Australian road rules" concept falling down due to state parochialism.

Having worked in SW WA, I would do anything to get the high quality road building gravels that existing in every hill in your area.

Lotzalandies, the Princes Hwy/Foxground Rd intersection is a very difficult one. No doubt the present situation arises due to the road being incrementally widened from the original track, which limited the opportunity to develop full superelevation as would be required if the road were built from "stratch". Unfortunately most road construction is not "greenfield" construction but you have to work within existing site constraints. In theses instances you have to be very careful in the design phase but you do also heavily rely on the skill of the operators to make it work on the ground. I hope that in the case of the above intersection, we will see a new highway between Kiama and Nowra funded and built in my lifetime!!!!:p:p

[LandyAndy]

Hi Brian
The shells arn't the CHEAP way out.
Any idea what these rollers cost new??? And as Chris points out,we only need the PAD FOOT SHELLS in WA in extreme cases.
Hire one in WA,you get a smooth drum or get shells fitted if you require them.
Our shells can be changed relatively quickly.First time 2 blokes 6 hours as we have never done it,and as you can guess quite complex.
The last 3 changes took me and 1 other around 4 hours a go.
Im unsure what the actual AUST STANDARD compaction standards we have to meet when doing our Main Roads work but when they test its out with the radiation signs!!! Im guessing your 94ASHO was back in 1994???
Very rarely does our work fail the prescribed limits.
AIR ON THE RUN IS CRAP!!!!!
It was taken off our last 3 rubberguts including the new one.TOO many punctures/air leaks/air leaks causing grit to get into the rims when all the tyres are flat after a weekends rest/pump them up the grit chaffes the tubes.And then there is the pick up a rock between the tyres and tare out the air lines!!!
Andrew

[LandyAndy]

Hi Ace
You can set the camber up real nice on one bend,almost as good as a speedway track.
All will be fine but it will fine the cars straight off the next bend.
Without seeing driving any bend you cant comment on it.I see loads that are totally wrong,but then you drive the opposite direction and you see the problem.It isnt as simple as it appears!!!
Andrew

[Bigbjorn]

Andy, I was in the earthmoving, construction and mining equipment game for years. Believe me, roller manufacturers are opposed to bolt-on shells. They supply them because the cheap buyers want them. The added weight upsets the whole balance and designed performance of the machine and they hammer out. Our compaction technical people were repeatedly appalled by the buyers lack of knowledge of the capacity and correct application of the machines. Assistance and advice was only a 'phone call away but rarely did any user bother until they were in trouble or had stuffed the machine and then it was never their fault.

Your air-on-the-run troubles sound like a lack of proper maintenance and improper operation.