Mortgage Repayments

[BigJon]

When I log out of my hotmail account, the nine msn homepage comes up.
Each day they have a diiferent question with a multichoice answer.

Todays question is :Should the government take steps to lower mortgage repayments (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=87372)?

The last time I looked, 44 105 people had said yes:(, 8960 people had said no:).

What is wrong with all of those "yes" people? Whatever happened to taking care of yourself and not relying on government assistance or handouts?

Surely if your mortgage payments are too high, that is your fault, not the governments. Sell that house and buy a cheaper one!!

On one hand, people like to complain about the level of government intervention in our lives, then on the other the majority are voting for more intervention / regulation/nannying.

It makes my mind boggle...:eek:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

John

Under the Howard Government I have experienced 5 interest rate rises and another 2 since Rudd came to office, I have only a few years to save for my retirement so have 2 mortgages - when I was young there was an expectation of an aged pension and health QANGO's didn't offer public service superannuation so I only started saving into private superannuation in my 30's. My second mortgage is to supplement my superannuation.

Now we have to pay some of the highest interest rates in the world, because of the spivs investing in and the sub-prime mortgage crises in the US. While the spivs still pay themselves millions each year in "performance bonuses" while I won't even have a million dollars for self-funding my own retirement.

Yes the government should look into ways of reducing mortgage rates for the middle and lower classes, at least to world parity interest rates, just like they do with fuel excise.

I bet the 8960 people who said no are mortgage brokers!

Diana

[dullbird]

When I log out of my hotmail account, the nine msn homepage comes up.
Each day they have a diiferent question with a multichoice answer.

Todays question is :Should the government take steps to lower mortgage repayments (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=87372)?

The last time I looked, 44 105 people had said yes:(, 8960 people had said no:).

What is wrong with all of those "yes" people? Whatever happened to taking care of yourself and not relying on government assistance or handouts?

Surely if your mortgage payments are too high, that is your fault, not the governments. Sell that house and buy a cheaper one!!

On one hand, people like to complain about the level of government intervention in our lives, then on the other the majority are voting for more intervention / regulation/nannying.

It makes my mind boggle...:eek:

what about the people that could afford thre morgage repayments until all the interest rises

and the fact that cost of living is going up all the time but wages aren't going up with them.........

very idealistic view i think bigjon...... how stressed would you feel if you suddenly couldn't afford your house due to factors out of your control and you suddenly had to sell and you had lets say three kids in tow and the only house you could afford was 2 hours away from the school they love going to
but hey i suppose that would be your fault

[mightgeta4be]

I would have thought most people vote goverments in to keep taxes down, put in place stategies to keep inflation down etc.etc. these are measures that governments can do and should do to make house repayments easier. This is not asking for hand outs its asking the government to do its job. Its up to us to vote the right one in at election time.

[Ace]

i agree, but its not always the fact that people over borrowed to buy the house, in the last couple of years the cost of living has risen and its, fuel prices, grocery prices it all adds up, so people who were doing fine before might not be now, not to mention the rising interest rates. most will say they should have allowed for this sort of thing when they bought the house, but maybe people thought they had and things have risen more than they planned.

I do agree that people should service their debts, if they borrowed that much they need to take responsibility, but i know people in places like bathurst are stuggling because 2yrs ago house prices were through the roof, since interest rate rises the housing market in bathurst has died in the backside, the market has been flooded with houses that arent selling (things might have improved by now, but it was really bad at one stage) so house prices fell dramatically meaning people couldnt sell because when the bought the house it was worth alot more so the loan is worth more than the house. Then there is the issue of people buying houses with bugger all of a deposit, i dont think this is the borrowers fault it is the fault of the bank for allowing people to over extend themselves. I recently changed my credit card to a different one with a lower interest rate, when i did it i apply for the same rate, $2500, something that i could use in emergencies but not be so high it would be impossile to pay off, when i got the application back in a split second with a yes answer for a limit of $11500, over 4 times my original limit. people can get credit and loans to easily these days, i think that is what needs to be dealt with, not the fact that people are over extended on their mortgages.

[Bushwanderer]

Hi All,
I was a mortgage holder when the home loan interest rates rose to 17%. At the same time I was paying extra into super.

Now, through my foresight, my mortgage is paid off & I have a "reasonable" super.

Why should the gov't intercede on behalf of those with less foresight?

Best Wishes,

[dullbird]

Hi All,
I was a mortgage holder when the home loan interest rates rose to 17%. At the same time I was paying extra into super.

Now, through my foresight, my mortgage is paid off & I have a "reasonable" super.

Why should the gov't intercede on behalf of those with less foresight?

Best Wishes,

may i ask if you were in a well paid job?????
becuase i work with a number of people that could just not posibly even a morgage repayment let alone a house with the way things are rising

is it that you should only be able to have a house if you are forutnate to have a comfortable job.....???
these people work very very hard at there job for little money and some people in life dont work hard at all and dont have many worries in thre lives let alone a morgage payment

what about giving less fortunate people a fair go!!

beacuse the way i see it they would end up getting the money from the government with breaks another way

i dont beleive the governement should pay peoples morgages but i do believe they need to keep an eye on things a bit like the fuel price increases,

[Bigbjorn]

Much of the problem arises from irresponsible lending and people being happy to accept a loan of up to 105% of valuation. They have no equity in the property and will not for quite a few years until appreciation of property values (inflation) takes place. Not all that long ago, to get a housing loan you had to show a history of saving and a deposit of from 25% to 40% of valuation. Also people now buy houses with all the bells and whistles, 4 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, triple garages, pools and spas, air conditioning etc. meaning enormous mortgages. Their parents were happy to just have a house, usually two bedrooms, sleepout maybe, lean-to laundry, no garage or driveway (mostly no car anyway). Extensions and luxuries were added as they could afford them.

When I bought my current house in 1975, the bank would not take into account anything other than my base salary. Commission, company car, free home 'phone, were not in the equation, nor were my wife's full time earnings. She might get pregnant and have to stop work. We were required to have a deposit over 30% of valuation. We could however service the loan and with my commission earnings paid it off in 6 years.

[stevo68]

may i ask if you were in a well paid job?????
becuase i work with a number of people that could just not posibly even a morgage repayment let alone a house with the way things are rising

is it that you should only be able to have a house if you are forutnate to have a comfortable job.....???
these people work very very hard at there job for little money and some people in life dont work hard at all and dont have many worries in thre lives let alone a morgage payment

what about giving less fortunate people a fair go!!

beacuse the way i see it they would end up getting the money from the government with breaks another way

i dont beleive the governement should pay peoples morgages but i do believe they need to keep an eye on things a bit like the fuel price increases,The way "less unfortunate" people get a go is by getting of their backsides and doing something. Its not up to me, my neighbour or the government to do that. Now I am talking about a person with all faculties in place, if you are working very hard for not a lot of $$$, whose fault is that??? Its your fault, no one elses. Just like the person with a good job, comfortable, isn't struggling, that is also "their fault". Some examples, my ex with 2 very young children spent the last 8 yrs putting herself through Uni whilst on a single mums pension and working when she could, she is now has a double degree in Law/Arts. My current fiancee, similiar situation when I met her, working full time and doing a Commerce degree part time with a young son. My mum, 65 yrs of age, still working and doing a 12 week computer course to update skills. My old man, was 52, bankrupt, $50 in the bank, 2nd wife took off, now 68, a multi millionaire.My fiancee's old man, went back to TAFE, late 40's so he could get into IT. Other examples, was watching The Chopping Block on 9 the other day, which pits 2 restaurants against each other. Bloke ran an Eygptian Restaurant for 20 odd years, he has had Polio from 2 yrs of age. I could recount story after story after story.

So no, not a big fan of give the less fortunate a go as they have Australia on their doorstep with a multitude of opportunities for the average Aussie. Nor do I buy into the whole " cant afford to purchase property" either, where there is a will...there is a way....its the way it always has been. I was lending back in the day of 17% mortgages, they still flew in through the door and as Brian pointed out, you had to have 20% deposit. I am growing my own business, so sensibility says "Stevo, lock in your rate for the next 2 yrs so you know what you need to pay", my lo doc rate is less than the current variable rate.

Ultimately for the average Aussie there is no excuse, if I fall flat on my face, that is 100% me. If I had to fire sale my house, I wouldnt like it, but know I have enough equity in it, to still come out fine. When I donate $$$ it is to those that really are unfortunate, we sponsor children who have nothing like what my children have. People forget we really are the lucky country and if you are struggling....what are YOU going to do about it,

Regards

Stevo

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi All,
I was a mortgage holder when the home loan interest rates rose to 17%. At the same time I was paying extra into super.

Now, through my foresight, my mortgage is paid off & I have a "reasonable" super.

Why should the gov't intercede on behalf of those with less foresight?

Best Wishes,
That is an interesting rationale.

When the interest rates were 17% the house prices were comparitively low (in today's standards). People rarely got mortgages if the repayments were more than 25% of weekly income.

According to RBA figures people are paying something over 35.2% of median weekly income to repay the average mortgage of today.

Figures from the REI suggest that the percentage of income currently spent on average mortgage repayments is 53% more than that paid at the peak during the Keating Government in 1989.

Bushwanderer your foresight cost you therfore 53% less on a weekly basis than my planning. And I am one of the lucky ones who didn't buy at the peak of the market and had more than 20% deposit - yet I am struggling at the moment and I don't even have a family to feed.

Diana

Addit: I know what I should do. Just like Stevo has said, I should get off may backside and go and do something about it. I will stop nursing immediately and leave the hospital system (just one more of 50,000 shortages, so who cares) and get a spiv job where I can make lots of money at anyone's expense. I'll be O.K.

[Utemad]

I think the biggest problem with housing these days is people wanting to move out of home and immediately get a house in a good area and want to furnish it and buy a new car and have whatever else that their Mum and Dad took 20 years or more to accumulate.

We are paying off our townhouse and are almost finished in 7 years. We don't drink or smoke which helps. Three years of that I was at uni and earning bugger all too.

People seem to prefer to put all their money into renting a flash place when they could be paying off their own modest place.

[Bigbjorn]

Hi All,
I was a mortgage holder when the home loan interest rates rose to 17%.
Best Wishes,

Loved those early nineties interest rates. By then I was an investor, not a borrower.

A very, very, wealthy friend of mine gets on his hobby horse when people want the government to act to keep interest rates low. He reckons government has no business looking after "brokes, bums, and borrowers". He calls them the lawful prey of the investor. He reckons government should be getting interest rates up and looking after the investor, whose money, he claims, is the fuel for the engine room of the economy. His wish is that the long term bank deposit rate should never be less than double figures.

[Grizzly_Adams]

Theoretical exercise - what is the "average" earnings?

$20 an hour?

Don't forget this has to take into account all the cleaners, janitors, labourers, etc. - you know, the "unskilled labour".

I'm pretty sure they outnumber the "skilled labour" something like 3:1 (my guesstimate, not based on actual fact).

You know the people, the ones society would collapse if they weren't there, but we try and ignore and say they shouldn't complain about their situation, if they just worked harder or went to uni they'd be better off.

$20 an hour x 8 hours a day = $160 a day
5 day week = $800 a week
52 weeks a year = $41600

That's GROSS, not NET. Gotta take out taxes, super, etc. etc. etc.

Somehow amongst all that they try and support a family and have to pay rent / food / electricity / gas / etc.

At the end of the day they have a few hours rest before getting up and starting it all over again.

I'm sorry but whilst I generally agree with stevo68 (please don't take this as a personal attack stevo68 as it's not meant to be) but in this regard I really feel he has his head in the clouds and he's been there too long it's distorting his view on reality (where reality == the majority normal working class).

Lets face it, it is hard out there. If you're in the above situation and renting then there is a good chance you'll never stop renting - unless you take one of the dodgy financial deals where you lend 105% of the value of the property and don't pay any deposit.

I'm not into handouts, I hate handouts - with a passion, but in the past few years (as has been stated) the housing market has exploded much much more than inflation / CPI / anything else can account for. Until our (meaning everyone's) income increases appropriately (which, by the way, will drive up everything else including bread and milk at the same time) then yes I don't see a major issue with helping those less fortunate than ourselves.

It's cliche, it's Marvel (Stan Lee / Spiderman) all over but it's true:

With great power comes great responsibility

We, as people have are affluent (whether we see it or not we are a lucky country and most of us have plenty of opportunities), have a responsibility to those less fortunate than us to help them.

EDIT: Add flame suite, top-up Bourbon, go back to watching 48 hours. Come back later to see how badly burnt I am :eek:

[kermit31]

As far as interest rates go I would rather the government butt out, we have the economy in WA. going gangbusters and NSW down the toilet. From what I see the biggest problem in Sydney is the value of the property is not what people borrow on. For example there are houses around Kellyville for example where the cost to buy a couple of years ago was say $600k. Due to changed circumstances they find they have to sell and the self /same real estate agents now advise them that there property is really worth $350k hence the dissatisfaction. Just my thoughts on a very complex and disturbing problem.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Loved those early nineties interest rates. By then I was an investor, not a borrower.

A very, very, wealthy friend of mine gets on his hobby horse when people want the government to act to keep interest rates low. He reckons government has no business looking after "brokes, bums, and borrowers". He calls them the lawful prey of the investor. He reckons government should be getting interest rates up and looking after the investor, whose money, he claims, is the fuel for the engine room of the economy. His wish is that the long term bank deposit rate should never be less than double figures.
Brian

What does your spiv mate do?

The reason whe are getting more brokes and borrowers (I'll forget about the others because they're bums and nothing will help them out) is because there are too many Very Very wealthy spivs who make money from "jo battler" at any cost, and without morals.

There is solid evidence that one of the stabilising forces in society is home ownership, it is a form of insurance in people's dotage, an investment that will reduce the burdon on the public purse in the long term. The government's interests are well served by supporting low middle income earners create their own wealth by home ownership. Leave the credit card and other interest rates alone and let market forces do their work. There will still be whingers, bums and brokes but a good proportion of society and the economy will be better off.

Just my opinion

Diana

[Bigbjorn]

He was an apprentice cabinet maker who was sacked when he finished his time because of the building downturn caused by Menzies credit squeeze. He started self-employment by borrowing ten pounds from an uncle, paying a neighbour ten bob a week rent for a single car garage (1961), making one kitchen suite at a time, selling it to pay for the material, and eventually became a furniture manufacturer and then a commercial property investor. He says he never paid rent other than for that garage he started in, saved up to buy his first proper shed, never borrowed money to buy machinery, but saved up until he could pay cash. His only "luxury" once he was on his way was always having a decent car. His first house was in front of his first proper factory, and plywood, timber, veneer, varnish was stored under and on the verandah. A real Aussie success story.

[sclarke]

Try 11.85% as of last week.....

1 bad debt and the bank hates me...

a repayment of $2600 a month when it should be about $1600

My fault and i live with it

[100I]

here here Grizzly.

Stevo, your attitude to those less fortunate sometimes borders on condescending.
There will be many out there who genuinely struggle but have little choice. Some don't simply haven't the ability to further their education, but they shouldn't be trampled or left behind. They do deserve a break. Don't get me wrong I have no time for the sponges that bleed the welfare system, but being poor or poorly educated doesn't make them any less deserving of having the ability to put their own roof over their head.

[Slunnie]

11.85% :eek:

I'm on 7.85%

[Stepho_62]

I've read this topic with interest.

Having just relocated from down south to north QLD I've had to re acquire a mortagage again to purchase our desired property. We are currently working our azz of to pay for it at about $500 per week.

My stepson moved up here about the same time. Broke, no cash, 2 litlte kids and a couple of other social handicaps.

He sniveled on his mother's shoulder at one stage and said he didn't "puss his money up against the wall".

Well, still renting, kids get stuff that anyone with a brain that was broke wouldn't buy, now go to a private skool, etc etc etc etc etc.

It will be a cold day in hell b4 he gets ANYTHING from me again. Thing is, we bent over backwards for the little darlings to give em everything and what has that got us.

A generation of kids that expect everything and will work for nothing, a generation of kids that will take advantage of 2 years interest free and then whinge when they get slugged with 18% interest, a generation that are flat out building the nations debt as fast as they can, a generation that largely have a f u attitude to society in general and simply do not understand allegiance and work ethic, a generation of kids who are largely ill educated, ignorant and arrogant.

Make no mistake about it. We are headed towards a recession, driven by the spoilt whingy whiney generation that we created. I trust we still have the integrity to put our hands up and shoulder our responsibility for what will beset us in the future!

[Lotz-A-Landies]

He was an apprentice cabinet maker who ...

.... A real Aussie success story.
Brian

Good for him! :)

It won't happen today, because you can bring in cabinets from Asia cheaper than you can buy the materials in Australia, the council won't let you live in a factory or even a house above a fire hazard like plywood. In fact is it often difficult to get a DA for a caretakers cottage on comercially zoned property.

But yes driven people do make it good, however my societal philosophies (I won't call them socialist) would like to see each generation make it better for the next. We, this global corporate capitalism seem to be diametrically oposed to doing anything for the common good.

It is obscene the dollars/euros/swiss franks many corporate chief spivs make each year. It is more than any one person could spend in a dozen lifetimes and is all at the expense of shareholders who are treated no better than the brokes, bums and borrowers these thiefdoms rape and pillage to make their filthy megaprofits.

Diana

P.S. I am still smiling! :)

[Slunnie]

Perhaps communism Diana? :D

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Perhaps communism Diana? :D
Simon

My doctor has advised me to avoid anything consumerist*, it brings me out rash! :) :) :) :)

Perhaps it is why I don't see the benefit of updating my 1985 Rangie? :D :D :D

Diana

* Consumerist - any product or thing containing consumer or consumer like products.

[Slunnie]

:lol2:

I'd buy that. :o

[loanrangie]

The government makes the average home owner hurt to slow inflation yet its the the bloody CEO's and poly's on 6 and 7 figure salary's that should be taxed higher. While the f..k would i sell my home to downsize to smaller and not any more affordable home, no economic sense in that even if i end up slightly better off. There has to be a better way to slow the economy than rising interest rates, how about hitting the investment owners and the greedy developers who also push house/ land prices up by then subdividing and selling off again. I'm getting by but we dont have any spare cash and every expense outside of necessity is kept to a bare minimum.

[stevo68]

Theoretical exercise - what is the "average" earnings?

$20 an hour?

Don't forget this has to take into account all the cleaners, janitors, labourers, etc. - you know, the "unskilled labour".

I'm pretty sure they outnumber the "skilled labour" something like 3:1 (my guesstimate, not based on actual fact).

You know the people, the ones society would collapse if they weren't there, but we try and ignore and say they shouldn't complain about their situation, if they just worked harder or went to uni they'd be better off.

$20 an hour x 8 hours a day = $160 a day
5 day week = $800 a week
52 weeks a year = $41600

That's GROSS, not NET. Gotta take out taxes, super, etc. etc. etc.

Somehow amongst all that they try and support a family and have to pay rent / food / electricity / gas / etc.

At the end of the day they have a few hours rest before getting up and starting it all over again.

I'm sorry but whilst I generally agree with stevo68 (please don't take this as a personal attack stevo68 as it's not meant to be) but in this regard I really feel he has his head in the clouds and he's been there too long it's distorting his view on reality (where reality == the majority normal working class).

Lets face it, it is hard out there. If you're in the above situation and renting then there is a good chance you'll never stop renting - unless you take one of the dodgy financial deals where you lend 105% of the value of the property and don't pay any deposit.

I'm not into handouts, I hate handouts - with a passion, but in the past few years (as has been stated) the housing market has exploded much much more than inflation / CPI / anything else can account for. Until our (meaning everyone's) income increases appropriately (which, by the way, will drive up everything else including bread and milk at the same time) then yes I don't see a major issue with helping those less fortunate than ourselves.

It's cliche, it's Marvel (Stan Lee / Spiderman) all over but it's true:

With great power comes great responsibility

We, as people have are affluent (whether we see it or not we are a lucky country and most of us have plenty of opportunities), have a responsibility to those less fortunate than us to help them.

EDIT: Add flame suite, top-up Bourbon, go back to watching 48 hours. Come back later to see how badly burnt I am :eek: I'll tackle this one first..but what a load of bull**** mate, what do you know of my back ground etc. Also note I do not take it as a personal attack :D. I choose to run my own business and take the inherent risks, I paid myself once in January as business was slow. I support a family of 6 including myself plus one on the way. Lack of education is not an excuse, if you are "unskilled" labour...that is a choice. There will always be unskilled labour, its the laws of the universe, not everyone is going to be successful and wealthy, that is life. Why does everyone deserve to be able to buy their own home? If you do, you have made the steps and the choices to be able to fulfill that. Like my old man was told once by a former boss " Be thankful that not everyone thinks the same as you do, otherwise imagine how competitive it would be then". As I clearly stated, if you are happy with your lot in life, that is fantastic. My bench mark of success isnt the trappings in life it is providing the best for my children........that is a CHOICE.

The fact of the matter is there will always be people better off and worse off, where you fall in that scale falls down to YOU...and nobody else.


Stevo, your attitude to those less fortunate sometimes borders on condescending.
There will be many out there who genuinely struggle but have little choice. Some don't simply haven't the ability to further their education, but they shouldn't be trampled or left behind. They do deserve a break. Don't get me wrong I have no time for the sponges that bleed the welfare system, but being poor or poorly educated doesn't make them any less deserving of having the ability to put their own roof over their head. Next :D, condescending my butt cheeks, what for telling it like it is. Taking myself for example, I know what it is like to be dirt poor, to have to walk a 4 km round trip to get to a ATM to get $$$ out, to decide whether I buy food for myself or my pet....that was my CHOICE....I dictated those circumstances. It was also up to me to get out of that situation. I put myself through Uni at 30 whilst going through a divorce and having my children 1000kms away, cause the missus took off with my babies. I was the one that came out with a Distinction average, plus raised 2 young children etc etc. FFS do people think that everyone that is doing well today, that it was always like that? I know many people who have come from very humble backgrounds, un educated but decided that they wanted better out of life for them, their family etc and have had to cross many divides to achieve success.

If you want to feel for someone, try a child starving to death in some war torn African country, or a mother living in absolute squalor with meager rations to have enough food so she can breast feed her infant. Or an orphanage in Thailand were the mothers tried to abort at 6-7mths and the children survived. If you are a bleeding heart, reach out to those people, they truly are unfortunate,

Regards

Stevo

[Lotz-A-Landies]

:lol2:

I'd buy that. :o

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

[LandyAndy]

Just got the letter from the bank.
Your fortnite mortgage payment has just risen from $119.60 PF to$121.83PF.
Got to be some perks to buying in a country town:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
Bought the place 5 years ago on the min deposit we could.
Could sell this week in the $225000+ area:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
BUT GOT TO BUY A REPLACEMENT:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Andrew

[Xavie]

lol, the next Alan Jones!

[Stepho_62]

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

Must be something about us Stepho's, we is hardasses. :eek:

He said stuff that I refrained from. I largely support his commentary. At the end of the day your worls is precisely what you make it. Action and consequence, Choice.

It really is that simple.

[stevo68]

Brian

Good for him! :)

It won't happen today, because you can bring in cabinets from Asia cheaper than you can buy the materials in Australia, the council won't let you live in a factory or even a house above a fire hazard like plywood. In fact is it often difficult to get a DA for a caretakers cottage on comercially zoned property.

But yes driven people do make it good, however my societal philosophies (I won't call them socialist) would like to see each generation make it better for the next. We, this global corporate capitalism seem to be diametrically oposed to doing anything for the common good.

It is obscene the dollars/euros/swiss franks many corporate chief spivs make each year. It is more than any one person could spend in a dozen lifetimes and is all at the expense of shareholders who are treated no better than the brokes, bums and borrowers these thiefdoms rape and pillage to make their filthy megaprofits.

Diana

P.S. I am still smiling! :) I really should be about to watch a DVD, but this is such a great topic and very interesting....sooooo in reference to my bolded part, are you saying that as a whole we aren't? I know many...putting it blunty pretty wealthy people....who not only donate $100,000's to cause's here and oversea's. What about the average punter? I've donated to the Smith Family so that children from poorer backgrounds could have school books, go on excursions....again does the average punter? Why is it only that those with $$$ should do this...shouldn't we all. Also have quite a few clients who are cabinet makers today doing exceptionally well, they would be deemed optimists as opposed to quite a few with a pessimistic view.

God forbid that a CEO of a billion dollar business shouldnt earn an exceptional salary....I know the stress of running a business turning over $10mill and 50 staff and I earnt every bloody cent of that. Like anything else, if you have an issue with the CEO earning a huge salary, don't invest in the business...don't work for the organisation etc,

Regards

Stevo

[sclarke]

Average wage.....

Ask a Plumber......


But i got a new company car.... YAY

[cartm58]

The Reserve Bank sets interest rates not the Govt

Reserve Bank uses interests rates to keep inflation in range 2 to 3%

Where inflation booming economy drives inflation beyond that range they lift interest rates

If people want Govt to do something about interest rates it will be anti inflationary macro economic measures such as reducing govt expenditure on services to community, govt employment levels, raise taxes and excises

You cant have your cake and eat it

People have always struggled thats why we call them Aussie Battlers

Interest rates still cheaper than 1980's where under Keating l ended paying 23% on home repayments

Tell them to stop whingeing they never had it so good

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Just got the letter from the bank.
Your fortnite mortgage payment has just risen from $119.60 PF to$121.83PF.
Got to be some perks to buying in a country town:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
Bought the place 5 years ago on the min deposit we could.
Could sell this week in the $225000+ area:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
BUT GOT TO BUY A REPLACEMENT:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Andrew
Just got the letter from the bank.
13/08/2007 Your monthly mortgage payment has just risen from $1,268.82 to $1,301.76PM.
12/11/2007 Your monthly mortgage payment has just risen from $1,301.76 to $1,319.27PM.
29/01/2008 Your monthly mortgage payment has just risen from $1,319.27 to $1,339.28PM
16/02/2008 Your monthly mortgage payment has just risen from $1,339.28 to $1,380.85PM

And that is only one - the rental return comes no where close to the mortgage and I have to foot the maintenance, insurance, water, council rates and body corporate fees out of my own pocket with another mortgage for where I live for almost the same value.

No I haven't had a pay rise!

"perks" what perks?

[stevo68]

Just got the letter from the bank.
13/08/2007 Your monthly mortgage payment has just risen from $1,268.82 to $1,301.76PM.
12/11/2007 Your monthly mortgage payment has just risen from $1,301.76 to $1,319.27PM.
29/01/2008 Your monthly mortgage payment has just risen from $1,319.27 to $1,339.28PM
16/02/2008 Your monthly mortgage payment has just risen from $1,339.28 to $1,380.85PM

And that is only one - the rental return comes no where close to the mortgage and I have to foot the maintenance, insurance, water, council rates and body corporate fees out of my own pocket with another mortgage for where I live for almost the same value.

No I haven't had a pay rise!

"perks" what perks? Me thinks some of the "less fortunate" wouldn't mind being in your shoes :p,

Regards

Stevo

[stevo68]

Hard Asses :Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

Must be something about us Stepho's, we is hardasses. :eek:

He said stuff that I refrained from. I largely support his commentary. At the end of the day your worls is precisely what you make it. Action and consequence, Choice.

It really is that simple.
Dunno about being hardassed :), moreso a different perspective, though SWMBO might say I can be at times. Too many people think life owes them a living, that the problem is "out there" but don't realise it is the mirror image staring them back in the face, that there are "sinkers" and "swimmers" in life and the good ol " why does he/ she deserve that".

Ultimately, if you are happy sweeping streets for a living, good for you same as if you are running a multi national business earning a squillion along with the stress, risks etc, then also good for you, but where one is today, tomorrow and in the future boils down to the person staring back in the mirror,

Regards

Stevo

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Me thinks some of the "less fortunate" wouldn't mind being in your shoes :p,

Regards

Stevo
Stevo

You think I can still afford to have shoes? :D

I agree, as was said before my income doesn't have to afford kids, childcare, no hoper partner or all the rest and I am on an above average income.

That is my whole point, how can someone with a family and a desire to give their kids a decent life, education and future prospects ever hope to do that on the average or lower income and still buy a home as back up insurance for their old age. Let alone the bizzare myth of leaving anything for the kids to inherit.

Diana

[procrastination inc]

I'm doing it on the average wage wit 4 kids

Though, I did get into the housing market in 96 before it all went silly and helped out by a moderate inheritance from my Dad. Hate to try to get into it now, was hard then. An $85K loan consumed over 1/3 of my income at very low interest rates.

But there are some choices that people make that they really need to look at.

When we go our second house the bank offered a HUGE amount of money. I asked them to recalculate what they would allow me borrow assuming only one income, no government payments and a 10% interest rate.

They were a bit surprised and still tried to push the sell on the big loan, but I got what I wanted in the end. Still comfortable and miles ahead on payments. Deregulation of the banking industry without suitable education and training for their customers has a lot to answer for.

[BigJon]

without suitable education and training for their customers has a lot to answer for.

There is a huge amount of educational material out there, you just have to get off your backside and find it! (I am using the term you as a generalisation, not meaning you procrastination inc:p).

[procrastination inc]

true. some people aren't rational/educated enough to do that.

The Machiavellian nature of the free market economy has little room for humanity.

[DiscoCam]

Then there is the issue of people buying houses with bugger all of a deposit, i dont think this is the borrowers fault it is the fault of the bank for allowing people to over extend themselves.

I think if I tried hard enough (and had the inclination) I could go out and buy some crack or heroin. Am I being a dickhead for buying it or is it the drug dealers fault for selling it.

Someone mentioned it before but perhaps better education or some sort of 'life skills' subject in High School would be good but ultimately while there is demand in this end of the credit market there will be supply. I agree with the sentiment that there is no one to blame for anyone’s financial situation but themselves.


Thanks for an interesting topic:)

[BigJon]

I just googled Australia average wage and came back with approx. $1110 per week. I assume that is before tax. For the record, both my girlfriend and I are on below average wages and we have no trouble paying our mortgages.

[BigJon]

11.85% :eek:

I'm on 7.85%

Our most recent mortgage, 8.25% fixed.

[procrastination inc]

1 mortgage between you and no kids?

repayments on about 150k are about one weeks average wage. borrowing more than that technically puts you into mortgage stress. where can you buy a house for 150 to 180k and still be able to pull in the "average" wage?

[djhampson]

But yes driven people do make it good, however my societal philosophies (I won't call them socialist) would like to see each generation make it better for the next. We, this global corporate capitalism seem to be diametrically oposed to doing anything for the common good.

It is obscene the dollars/euros/swiss franks many corporate chief spivs make each year. It is more than any one person could spend in a dozen lifetimes and is all at the expense of shareholders who are treated no better than the brokes, bums and borrowers these thiefdoms rape and pillage to make their filthy megaprofits.



I have to disagree with the your post here Diana. CEOs and the like don't thieve, rape and pillage even though I do believe they are massively over paid, their contribution to society has made the world a better place.

Take for example the company I work for. Our CEO started the company in the late 80s and has built it up to be the large successful listed company that it is today. Currently we employ over 600 people around the country. The management that the CEO has provided, the direction and the decision making that he has made day in day out provides me and 600 others with a living.

Yes he is very rich but he has created work for 600 people. What he has done is hardly diametrically opposed to doing anything for the common good.

[LandyAndy]

Diana
PERKS
Buying a house 5 years ago in a small country town for $41000.
Services are not what most city people get,no public transport,small general store for food,pretty expensive.
ONLY 1.5 hours from Perth/Bunbury or Mandurah,2 and a bit to Albany on the south coast.
The perk is to buy when we did and enjoy the value escalating to plus $225000 at the moment in such a short time.
The perk value to me is I bought dirt cheap,BECAUSE I HAD TO WHEN I BOUGHT.Was thrown out of my employers accomodation due to a back injury.
Had 2 choices.1 house in town for rent at the time $100 week.To buy this place $50 week.NO MATHS NEEDED!!!
Andrew

[BigJon]

1 mortgage between you and no kids?

repayments on about 150k are about one weeks average wage. borrowing more than that technically puts you into mortgage stress. where can you buy a house for 150 to 180k and still be able to pull in the "average" wage?

About to be three mortgages. No kids. At this stage it is a choice to have no kids. Perhaps in the future that will change. If so, we will adjust any mortgages to reflect our incomes. The house we have just purchased is in Hoprsham, Victoria. $151 000. Three bedroom, plus study. One bathroom. Good shed. She is a teacher, I will do whatever it takes.

I am technically in "mortgage stress". Those are just words to me that have no meaning.

[loanrangie]

1 mortgage between you and no kids?

repayments on about 150k are about one weeks average wage. borrowing more than that technically puts you into mortgage stress. where can you buy a house for 150 to 180k and still be able to pull in the "average" wage?

Exzackery, before we had kids and only a 2 bed house we were on easy st, but try paying a mortgage on one average wage with 2 kids - and eat !

[BigJon]

Kids are a choice. You make your decision and you live with it.

[rovercare]

I got a job at 16, after failing year 10:eek: and have been on over 6 figures for the last 2 years and around 70-80 for a few before, I also work on cars on my off time to substitute my costs (drinking $100p/w smoking $30p/w) and playing with cars, less fortunate...........Pfft, wayne kerrs, get off your ass and do something about it, I'm with Stevo68 on this, life is what you make it, you need to rule it yourself:angel:

P.S. I'm 24 and a know it all:D but with me and my missus we combine near 160k a year gross, why? because I worked HARD to get there..............But I don;t work hard now, I work SMAT (simpsons funny:D)

[rovercare]

Kids are a choice. You make your decision and you live with it.

Ditto, and I'm (well the missus:D) making that choice in the next 12 months:eek:

[procrastination inc]

try paying a mortgage on one average wage with 2 kids - and eat !

I'm doing it, with 4 kids. But I have 1/2 the average mortgage on the average income. It is pretty easy still. But we don't have an extravagant lifestyle (by auatralian standards)

I have cousins in europe who will never own a home, that is the province of the very wealthy

[rovercare]

I think if I tried hard enough (and had the inclination) I could go out and buy some crack or heroin. Am I being a dickhead for buying it or is it the drug dealers fault for selling it.

Someone mentioned it before but perhaps better education or some sort of 'life skills' subject in High School would be good but ultimately while there is demand in this end of the credit market there will be supply. I agree with the sentiment that there is no one to blame for anyone’s financial situation but themselves.


Thanks for an interesting topic:)

Hehe, thats funny, people crying about someone willing to lend them money, what a joke, "fools and their money.............":D

[ladas]

Just out of curiosity - whats a mortgage ?

[rovercare]

"tis funny this topic, I have mates who cry, you can only do that cause you earn so much, I've offered these people T/A positions in the past, but none can be bothered, I literally take home twice the pay of some:eek:

Laziness;)

[procrastination inc]

crying about the banks willing to extend credit to people who aren't in a position to make repayments if things are less than ideal.

look at what is happening in the US. Free Market free for all can crash everything if it only monitors short term profit.

[BigJon]

Just out of curiosity - whats a mortgage ?

Is that a serious question?

A loan to an individual or business to purchase real estate, in which the real estate itself serves as collateral for the loan.

How's that?

[ladas]

Is that a serious question?

A loan to an individual or business to purchase real estate, in which the real estate itself serves as collateral for the loan.

How's that?

No Jon - I was being a little facitious ;)

[BigJon]

No worries, it is hard to guage intent on a forum when you can't hear the way the words are said :).

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I have to disagree with the your post here Diana. CEOs and the like don't thieve, rape and pillage even though I do believe they are massively over paid, their contribution to society has made the world a better place.

Take for example the company I work for. Our CEO started the company in the late 80s and has built it up to be the large successful listed company that it is today. ....

I am not talking about good and successful business people who create wealth and employment.

I am talking about corporate spivs who get parachuted into chief executive positions of companies whos sole aim is the asset strip profitable businesses and frequently do this by wholesale reduncies of hundreds and thousands of employees. They pay themselves multi million dollar bonuses as a result of unemploying thousands of families.

Was it Credit Suisse this week where the current CEO has presided over a company that went from billions of dollars in profit last year to millions of dollars in losses this year, so much so that it is having to sell equity to oil rich trillionaires yet the CEO still gets paid was it 26 million Euros in bonuses and a golden parachute.

Even in companies within Australia we get similar CEO spivs dumping 8.4 million of his own shares without telling the market till the last moment because ABC Learning may be going bad. The whole executive of that company dumped the majority of their shares worth tens of millions of dollars without telling the market so the ordinary shareholders may well be left holding the bag and maybe even childcare workers losing their jobs. Time will tell.

That is the sort of thiefdom that I am talking about.

[dobbo]

I refuse to make myself poor and let my wife and kids suffer to have the priveledge of living next door to the Jones'. Personal choice we made was to live next door to the Smiths and the Browns, prefering to live like kings in squaller, see my kids and have a life than kill myself with overtime to keep up payments on a mortgage (like so many others I know) even when times are tough, it's only a short term problem.

I have lake, I have Mountains, I have beach and shops, the kids go to a nice school and we all have toys. We have a nice lifestyle, but a crap house and it suits us fine. A few streets away where the houses are 10x the price of ours they cannot afford to sail or run their boats, drive their cars or dream of owning a horse, they do have a nice address and neighbours though. Life is pretty much Skittles and Beer.

[isuzurover]

Loved those early nineties interest rates. By then I was an investor, not a borrower.

A very, very, wealthy friend of mine gets on his hobby horse when people want the government to act to keep interest rates low. He reckons government has no business looking after "brokes, bums, and borrowers". He calls them the lawful prey of the investor. He reckons government should be getting interest rates up and looking after the investor, whose money, he claims, is the fuel for the engine room of the economy. His wish is that the long term bank deposit rate should never be less than double figures.

You and your mate are at odds with most businesses in OZ. The Australian business council or whatever they are called, recently said the federal government should halt spending for 2 years, to keep inflation (and interest rates) low(er) in a bid to overcome the problems related to the excessive spending in the last part of howard's reign.

[dullbird]

I agree with what a lot of you say and yes people are in control of there own destiny, but I also believe that people can be a victim of circumstance.

And I also agree with diana not all CEO's and exectitives are up there because of what good people they are and how they thought tooth and nail to make a company what it is......I too hear the stories of how big wigs get there money and its not always mister nice creating 600 jobs its exploiting situations to better themselves and finding ways to avoid taxation

I myself do have a little compasion and do feel for the ones that don't seem to able to get out of the rutts...as not everyone even low wage people are looking for handouts and I don't believe they are all lazy either like you suggest. I myself work dam hard in my job and I have worked hard in every job I have had...and I do feel for the starving kids in africa.. But maybe they wouldn't of been starving so much if the country wasn't or had been so corrupt.

Anyway that's just how I feel.....from a low wage dirty scrubber that obviously didn't make the right choice in life and shouldn't have the right to buy a house.
my god I hope when I get reincarnated I can have the choice to come back as a CEO :b

[JDNSW]

I have to disagree with the suggestion that interest rates should be in double figures. One of the usually forgotten problems with high interest rates is that they make any form of long term investment almost impossible, whether you are talking about state or national infrastructure, developing a new invention or newly discovered minerals, anything where the payback is outside the next quarter's bottom line. This emphasis on the short term comes back to bite the community eventually.

Governments have found that while using interest rates to control inflation is a fairly blunt tool, with the major drawback given above, it has the big advantage that you can simply set a target, set up an independent board to administer it, and let her rip! Much less politically risky than the more effective method of varying taxes, and a lot easier than managing government activities so as to keep inflation down or managing money supply.

John

[Reads90]

Coorrr i was only reading a post the other day that you lot were calling poms wingers, Christ listern to you all :):) Worse than poms :D:D

[crump]

when I moved from Brissy to here 15 years ago, due to the depressed property markets in the region, the banks would not even consider lending money for a house, fullstop.So I worked hard and bought my first, and kept working and built another, mortgages who needs them!As to people not affording mortgages, come out here, you can buy anyhouse in town on acerage for under 100k and employment opportunities are endless. Oh yeah, thats right, you want to live near the coast.

[cucinadio]

when I moved from Brissy to here 15 years ago, due to the depressed property markets in the region, the banks would not even consider lending money for a house, fullstop.So I worked hard and bought my first, and kept working and built another, mortgages who needs them!As to people not affording mortgages, come out here, you can buy anyhouse in town on acerage for under 100k and employment opportunities are endless. Oh yeah, thats right, you want to live near the coast.



mate l was just looking at the place on google maps!

gees its small out there, what kind of work is there?

cheers

[djhampson]

I am not talking about good and successful business people who create wealth and employment.

I am talking about corporate spivs who get parachuted into chief executive positions of companies whos sole aim is the asset strip profitable businesses and frequently do this by wholesale reduncies of hundreds and thousands of employees. They pay themselves multi million dollar bonuses as a result of unemploying thousands of families.

Was it Credit Suisse this week where the current CEO has presided over a company that went from billions of dollars in profit last year to millions of dollars in losses this year, so much so that it is having to sell equity to oil rich trillionaires yet the CEO still gets paid was it 26 million Euros in bonuses and a golden parachute.

Even in companies within Australia we get similar CEO spivs dumping 8.4 million of his own shares without telling the market till the last moment because ABC Learning may be going bad. The whole executive of that company dumped the majority of their shares worth tens of millions of dollars without telling the market so the ordinary shareholders may well be left holding the bag and maybe even childcare workers losing their jobs. Time will tell.

That is the sort of thiefdom that I am talking about.

There are rotten eggs in all walks of life. If you looked at every profession or occupation you find a handful of people who have done harm to society.

[Reads90]

I sold a house in the uk to come out here (2.5 years ago ) This was a 2 bedroom starter house , what is called a 2 up , 2 down semi dettaced house with a tiny garden (total land size of about 200 m2 including what the house is on This is the house to move to to start a family after a flat. This was sold for $520,000 2.5 years ago . worth alot more now. This was not in a great area, if you were luck the car would still be there the next day , Have to pay more if you want a better area .
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/03/711.jpg

Mean while came here and bought a high set house a year ago for $300,000. Has 850m2 , three garages , pool, and views of Straddie Island and the bay . Ok in the past year this house may have gone up but only the same as my old house in the uk .

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/03/712.jpg

It may be tough in Aus but belive me it is not as bad as some other are doing it.
Interest rates going up is all our fault and has nothing to do with the goverment . The goverment are trying to stop everyone spending money , and the only way to do that is to take money out of the econmoy (so that people can't over spend). The way to do that is tax or interest rates. Both unpopular and both the goverment gets blamed for. If the country was in sh*t then we would all be unemployed and skint and moaning again at the goverment , so they can't win then can they (does not matter who is in )
eveyone moans at John Howard for the rise in interest rates and house prices but they would not be like that if it were not for the fact that the Australia econmoy is very strong and doing very well. . with very good leval of employment . All these things lead to inflation, which in turns leads to high interest rates and, which then leads to unemployment

People would have also kicked him out if their house had gone down in value and they were unemployed. (AKA the Australia economy was in crap)

Belive me you lot will be moaning like hell when (and it will happen) Interest rates go up again this month and again and again. This will lead to house price crash and houses will go down in price and everyone will moan like crap that their house has gone down in value. So see can't win :)

As for Me, i am in a fixed rate morgage for 3 years and have nearly 2 years left at 6.75% percent, so every time the rate goes up it cerments my decion to fix my loan when everyone told me to not do it fixed :)

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I know what BigJon is saying. And in part I agree.

Thing is I think we're heading for a big one too, and largely because of the housing boom. It's caused all sorts of trouble. Some people have done well, but those with little financial responsibility have used the opportunity to spend equity largely on stuff that doesn't matter (Plasma Tv, SS Ute anyone?).

I did the sums with a mate on buying a house with a mate and it worked out that on a modest house in my area it would cost him about 20k a year in repayments so someone else could live in his house.

But, he pointed out that if he doesn't get in the market then he might never be able to. So, it is unspoken but he like everyone else thinks that houses will just keep going up 30% a year and you'll make money on the capital growth. Taking the big picture view if you extrapolate 30% over even a small timeframe it's clear it's unsustainable. It's never ever happened that we have had a housing boom without some kind of a bust.

Anyway, I'm sitting back hoping to pick up a bargain in the next little while. :o

The signs are mounting... IMHO it's starting. :o

First signs (http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23259926-952,00.html)

[procrastination inc]

Dullbird said: I agree with what a lot of you say and yes people are in control of there own destiny, but I also believe that people can be a victim of circumstance.....

Have you read de boutons' "Status Anxiety" ?

He says that in western society we see that winners and losers are creators of their own destiny and that they deserve what they get, either way. We have a Darwinian approach to our society.

This assumes that everyone has a fair go, are dealt the same cards and has an equal chance to "succeed". This is patently untrue.

[Bigbjorn]

I know what BigJon is saying. And in part I agree.

Thing is I think we're heading for a big one too, and largely because of the housing boom. It's caused all sorts of trouble. Some people have done well, but those with little financial responsibility have used the opportunity to spend equity largely on stuff that doesn't matter (Plasma Tv, SS Ute anyone?).

I did the sums with a mate on buying a house with a mate and it worked out that on a modest house in my area it would cost him about 20k a year in repayments so someone else could live in his house.

But, he pointed out that if he doesn't get in the market then he might never be able to. So, it is unspoken but he like everyone else thinks that houses will just keep going up 30% a year and you'll make money on the capital growth. Taking the big picture view if you extrapolate 30% over even a small timeframe it's clear it's unsustainable. It's never ever happened that we have had a housing boom without some kind of a bust.

Anyway, I'm sitting back hoping to pick up a bargain in the next little while. :o

The signs are mounting... IMHO it's starting. :o

First signs (http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23259926-952,00.html)

During my working life I went through at least four boom-bust cycles. The collapse of the building business in 1982-83 saw my gross income reduced to almost half what it was in the boom years of 79-82. I believe another bust is about due. House and land prices are getting beyond reach, and when no new investors are coming into the market buying the properties of the last crop of investors, then the bust happens.

Nothing like a good bust and a year or two on Newstart Allowance to knock the arrogance out of building tradesmen. They sure do keep appointments when there is little work about.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...
Interest rates going up is all our fault and has nothing to do with the government . The government are trying to stop everyone spending money , and the only way to do that is to take money out of the economy (so that people can't over spend). The way to do that is tax or interest rates. Both unpopular and both the government gets blamed for. ....
The big problem with monetary policy where it manages interest rates alone is that it is indiscreet and then becomes a double edged sword.

Yes putting a hold on an overexcited economy by raising interest rates will encourage some people to invest but will also hurt those with current flexible rate loans. More importantly it will slow the building and construction industries, in turn those other industries who support building and construction. This can easily lead to large scale reduction in employment and further stress in those sectors. It also makes the Aussie$ more attractive to the market. A high comparative vale Aussie$ makes it harder to sell Aussie products on the world markets.

What is really needed is a method of slowing growth without reducing employment in Australia, but still reducing the volume of imported goods coming in from overseas (which benefit the Australian economy and "balance of trade" very little).

Interest rates can slow the value of imports, but if we quarantine mortgage interests from those rises it will reinforce employment in Australia by maintaining the building and construction support industries.

Just my opinion.

Diana

[LSBob]

A few years ago the local paper was running sob stories of people who had gone into another morgage to buy a second house which was then rented out to Defence Housing. Their rent was based on the current market figures and when it dropped these people were complaining that rent should not go down, they were not able to meet the repayments, its the government fault, etc but they never factored in any price flucuations. Their excuse was "we were told it would be safe" without reading all the Defence Housing blurb which stated how the current rate was obtained. Same as those people who get hooked by the Nigerian and other scams...they see the "money" that they can get without really looking at it, why give your bank details to someone you do not know?
House prices have gone up a lot but that is due to many factors, the house my parents bought in 1956 was a basic 3BR and came without furnishings, whitegoods except a stove, no landscaping, no sewerage as it had not reached the suburbs yet, no sealed roads. These items came slowly over the years when the money was available, we also did not have a car. Since then the councils expect the roads to be sealed, sewerage in, the homebuyers expect a larger house, all modern cons. 2 car garage, home entertainment units, dishwashers etc then the gov has thrown in GST which adds to the cost and councils have a multitude of fees for everything and rules Timber is getting scarcer and therefore dearer, all of which add to the basic cost of a house.
Also as others have pointed out, years ago you had to save for a deposit at least 10% to show that you could save, now the banks don't care so people with poor financial management skills can get a loan which they cannot really pay once anything changes. Interest rates have never remained fixed at a low rate for a long time.
When I moved here I lived in a tent for the first period then moved up and was careful always with my money so now my second home is payed off and I am debt free. To do it I had to make sacrifices and go without holidays, study at uni part time and budget carefully. It is probably a characteristic of those who grew up in the 40 and 50s as from an early age we knew money was tight and had to be earned. This comment has been made by a few. Now I look at those working with me in their 20s and it is a gotta have now mentality. One just bought a unit but had to get a full home entertainment system then 6 months later had to buy a new DVD player because it had a bigger hard disc so he can now watch 4 hours of Star Wars without getting up. Instead of paying a little extra in his repayments and getting the interest charged down he prefers to buy the latest gadget.
You also need to look around at what is offered and not to rush in because the salesman claims it will go quick. A friend has just moved into her new home (about 4 streets away from your friends BigJon) and she did her homework as to the builder. Cost $350,000 which included your choice of finishes, whitegoods, blinds, 2 car garage, landscaping and fencing. The house is well made. Just a few doors away another person was forced to sell their new house within a few months because their builder for $500,000 only gave them an empty house, no fences, landscaping etc and they had to take out an extra loan to buy the necessities so they could move in. The repayments were too much but they did not check what they really got for their money, they just liked the house but its quality was no better than the other house and offered nothing extra.
It has stopped raining now so I will stop my rant and go out and do some work.

[procrastination inc]

quarantining home loans won't give the desired effect.

increasing interest rates works because it forces home owners to review their budgets and curb their spending..

[dullbird]

quarantining home loans won't give the desired effect.

increasing interest rates works because it forces home owners to review their budgets and curb their spending..

the spending is not just done by home owners.......what about those that don't own a home like the 20 somethings that still live at home.:angel:

[Bigbjorn]

You and your mate are at odds with most businesses in OZ. The Australian business council or whatever they are called, recently said the federal government should halt spending for 2 years, to keep inflation (and interest rates) low(er) in a bid to overcome the problems related to the excessive spending in the last part of howard's reign.


And wouldn't that be a lovely disaster. No govt. spending means for some businesses NO customers, and for many many others such a reduction in govt. spending would almost send them to the wall, followed by mass sackings, mass unemployment, redundancies, bankruptcies. The various levels of government are the biggest spenders of all. Even if you are not dealing directly with government, many of your customers are and the cash flows on to you.

[dullbird]

Consultancy Diana...that's where its at :D Yep...us old girls are propping the system up by staying in a crap job ;)yes NM alot are doing exactly that but, they should stop whinging and go to uni that way they can pay off there morgage. Oh wait don't nurses go to uni. :angel::D silly me

[Lotz-A-Landies]

quarantining home loans won't give the desired effect.

increasing interest rates works because it forces home owners to review their budgets and curb their spending..
Sure it will provided that they can't tack all the gizmos onto their mortgage and have to pay credid card or personal loan interest rates for the the excessive lifestyle.

If you can't quarantine mortgage interest then give some tax incentives for home ownership, like being able to claim a portion of the mortgage interest as a tax deduction. Home owners are less of a burdon on the social security system in their old age.


Consultancy Diana...that's where its at :D Yep...us old girls are propping the system up by staying in a crap job ;)
NM

I tried that, the money is O.K. when you have a contract but then there can be lots of down time between contracts.

Worst of all if you are doing research consultancy, you have to do lots of work to submit the proposals before the 30 June end of financial year, but may not get notified whether it was successful till December or the New Year and then have less than 6 months to complete a project. Often you can be unsuccessful and there goes a whole year without a contract.

Sometimes you want to hedge your bets and submit proposals for different projects to different funding bodies. You may end up getting more than one and not have the resources to complete them or again get none.

There is something to be said about regular work and regular pay. More than that, in health consultancy, you are also taking risks but the rewards are no where the possibilities of those in business.

I'm too old to start out that way now!

Diana

[HAK]

I think, and for what it counts the 40% of young families like mine who bought a house that we can aford we did right, what pees me of is old retiries who now have paid there house cant stop spending pushing up the intrest rates I say put up the GST so that it stop people spending so that home loan rates dont increase thats my 2 cents :mad:so for all you old bag of winds who have paid of there houses buying new fenders and the like think for moment why the rest of 40% of people winge every time a intrest hike happens ;)

[vnx205]

Addit: I know what I should do. Just like Stevo has said, I should get off may backside and go and do something about it. I will stop nursing immediately and leave the hospital system (just one more of 50,000 shortages, so who cares) and get a spiv job where I can make lots of money at anyone's expense. I'll be O.K.

That's a good idea!

Then all we need is for the other people who are stupid enough to work in jobs where as well as making a meagre living they are making contribution to society or providing an essential service to have a bit of get up and go.

We need all the people working in childcare centres to go and get a proper job that pays a six figure salary. Of course that will create a bit of a problem for the two income families who need the second income either to survive or to service the loan on their fifth investment property. But if they have any drive they will find a solution.

At the same time we could get all the other people like teachers who work in jobs that don't pay overtime to leave and work somewhere where they do get overtime. They will still be working the same number of hours of course, but then with their overtime payments they will be able to pay extra contributions into their super.

Some of those people in jobs like nursing, childcare and teaching are probably the same unmotivated people who are scout leaders, sports coaches or members of service clubs like Apex or Lions. They are probably frittering away time that could be spent earning money on some sort of voluntary work in their community. Don't they realise their time would be better spent getting a second job so they could invest in the stock market or real estate?

It is possible that we need a few spivs, CEOs on obscene salaries and people who make their money by calculating or guessing when to buy or sell foreign currencies.

However it is certain that society could not function as it does without some of the people who are prepared to work in jobs where there is a sense of satisfaction that comes from having made a difference either to some individual's lives or to society in general. And there is plenty of evidence of just how much our society depends on volunteers

Those people like nurses and people being paid a pittance in early childhood centres and similar jobs have made their choice just like the people for whom a six figure salary is the most important facet of the job. Both groups have to accept the consequences of their decision.

It would be nice if just occasionally some of those driven, highly motivated, successful people would show some understanding and gratitude to those who have kept society functioning in the way we all like it to instead of adopting the attitude, "I have made myself rich through my own efforts. You could have done the same."

[dullbird]

That's a good idea!

Then all we need is for the other people who are stupid enough to work in jobs where as well as making a meagre living they are making contribution to society or providing an essential service to have a bit of get up and go.

We need all the people working in childcare centres to go and get a proper job that pays a six figure salary. Of course that will create a bit of a problem for the two income families who need the second income either to survive or to service the loan on their fifth investment property. But if they have any drive they will find a solution.

At the same time we could get all the other people like teachers who work in jobs that don't pay overtime to leave and work somewhere where they do get overtime. They will still be working the same number of hours of course, but then with their overtime payments they will be able to pay extra contributions into their super.

Some of those people in jobs like nursing, childcare and teaching are probably the same unmotivated people who are scout leaders, sports coaches or members of service clubs like Apex or Lions. They are probably frittering away time that could be spent earning money on some sort of voluntary work in their community. Don't they realise their time would be better spent getting a second job so they could invest in the stock market or real estate?

It is possible that we need a few spivs, CEOs on obscene salaries and people who make their money by calculating or guessing when to buy or sell foreign currencies.

However it is certain that society could not function as it does without some of the people who are prepared to work in jobs where there is a sense of satisfaction that comes from having made a difference either to some individual's lives or to society in general. And there is plenty of evidence of just how much our society depends on volunteers

Those people like nurses and people being paid a pittance in early childhood centres and similar jobs have made their choice just like the people for whom a six figure salary is the most important facet of the job. Both groups have to accept the consequences of their decision.

It would be nice if just occasionally some of those driven, highly motivated, successful people would show some understanding and gratitude to those who have kept society functioning in the way we all like it to instead of adopting the attitude, "I have made myself rich through my own efforts. You could have done the same."


very very well said

[dullbird]

I think, and for what it counts the 40% of young families like mine who bought a house that we can aford we did right, what pees me of is old retiries who now have paid there house cant stop spending pushing up the intrest rates I say put up the GST so that it stop people spending so that home loan rates dont increase thats my 2 cents :mad:so for all you old bag of winds who have paid of there houses buying new fenders and the like think for moment why the rest of 40% of people winge every time a intrest hike happens ;)

think thats a little unfair rovernit....

[CraigE]

I think if you have earned your money and are in a position to spend it you should be able to. Inflation is one of the biggest loads of b/s out. At the end of the day it is your money not the governments and you should be able to spend it how you want. Pushing up interest rates is just another way of making multi nationals and investors richer. The problem with putting up interest rates is it actually hurts the people that can least afford it or do not have the money to spend on excess anyway.

[procrastination inc]

one of the big probs is lots of boomers coming into retirement, all cashed up and splurging in an orgy of consumption before thier numbers up. and their kids are in their thirties, not had any kids yet, earning big bucks and spending them like teenagers.

Not that I blame them, it's their choice, there is just a pulse coming through that is bumping the economy about. It is all a bit out of balance

[procrastination inc]

Inflation is one of the biggest loads of b/s out...

tell that to a kenyan..

inflation is a basic characteristic of the supply/demand economic model.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Inflation is one of the biggest loads of b/s out...

tell that to a kenyan..

inflation is a basic characteristic of the supply/demand economic model.
Ah Ha - Inflation is all a plot by that gay guy Keynes - he invented it to make all the breeders suffer!

Diana

[Stepho_62]

I think, and for what it counts the 40% of young families like mine who bought a house that we can aford we did right, what pees me of is old retiries who now have paid there house cant stop spending pushing up the intrest rates I say put up the GST so that it stop people spending so that home loan rates dont increase thats my 2 cents :mad:so for all you old bag of winds who have paid of there houses buying new fenders and the like think for moment why the rest of 40% of people winge every time a intrest hike happens ;)

ROVERNIT

Thats bollocks,

Its been statistically proven over that last 5 years that the spenders that are driving the economy to destruction are the 18 - 28 year old bracket of uncommitted generation y nit witts that do not have a brain in their collective heads about how to save and build their future. They have disposable income, disposable clothing, disposable career's and disposable attitudes. Its not till they are well into their 30 that they realise that its time to build a bit of stability into their lifestyles as they aren't kid any more and the world hasn't self destructed yet.

This obviously doesn't go for all of them but unfortunately a large proportion form the majority.

[Disco_owner]

ROVERNT

Stevo is right

it's the young people spending big on LCD Plasma TV's , Consumer goods such as Mobile Phones, ipods , electronic goods in general , also car sales hit a record high last year in 2007

All-Time Record First Quarter for Car Sales | Media Release | FCAI (http://www.fcai.com.au/media/2007/04/00000134.html)

but what really pees me off is how my mate gets a $5K baby grant from our Tax money and he buys himself a LCD 46" TV and none of that money goes towards the child

[BigJon]

ROVERNIT

Thats bollocks,

Its been statistically proven over that last 5 years that the spenders that are driving the economy to destruction are the 18 - 28 year old bracket of uncommitted generation y nit witts that do not have a brain in their collective heads about how to save and build their future. They have disposable income, disposable clothing, disposable career's and disposable attitudes. Its not till they are well into their 30 that they realise that its time to build a bit of stability into their lifestyles as they aren't kid any more and the world hasn't self destructed yet.

This obviously doesn't go for all of them but unfortunately a large proportion form the majority.


I am glad you added that last line, my girlfriend is 26 and has a very level financial head on her shoulders :D.

[BigJon]

I would also like to thank everyone for their contributions to this topic.

I suspected when I posted it that there would be lively conversation / debate and I was right.

I am also very impressed that people are playing the ball, not the man. The level of maturity shown is pleasing.

[EchiDna]

those 18-28 year olds are one day going to be paying for the medical bills of 80+ year old baby boomers... thats when it really going to hit the fan....

[Stepho_62]

I am glad you added that last line, my girlfriend is 26 and has a very level financial head on her shoulders :D.


I am also very impressed that people are playing the ball, not the man. The level of maturity shown is pleasing.

I hate sterio typing but unfortunately the ABS is a veritable storehouse of sterio types.

Like your 26 yo GF there some absolute gems amoungst the Gen y's. They are clever, well educated, got common sense and best of all they understand allegience. To their employers, parents, community and the the environment etc. They are the sort of ppl whose hands I'd put my life in @ 80 something years of age.

Cheers,

[cucinadio]

my two pence,

1; absolutely nothing! and l mean nothing justifies a bonus to ceo's, in the millions ! :eek:

2; lf you were given 5 grand for nothing from the tax man, I'm sure "you" wouldn't say, hey take it back Mr tax man "lm fine l don't need it" mmmmmm thought so! ;)

3; if anyone was retrenched tomorrow and were going to lose your house, you would be the first to ask for help if needed and don't give me the crap that

"oh no l don't need the help of others, I'm a clever boy, ill work it out for myself" ;)

if you needed it, you would ask. So if others need it they should be allowed to ask yhea! :wallbash:

4; ls it only people over the age of 40 that are allowed to buy a big screen tv! jesus god help, theres no law that says people have to own a house to succeed, you'd be better off putting it all in your super and enjoying life.

well I'm tried, have to much to say and cant type fast enough, but l guess that makes me a sinker hey, better go drown myself so as not to be a burden on society ;)

cheers

[Reads90]

theres no law that says people have to own a house to succeed, you'd be better off putting it all in your super and enjoying live.


mmmm but owning a house is part of the best super. After all 25 years of paying rent to someone else is a complete waste of monay. Where as paying a mortage aleast you are getting somwhere

The other thing is a mortage might be alot now but that mortage will be the same amout in 10 year. My mortage is $2000 a month and it will be that in 10 years (when due to life my wages will have gone up and that figure will be alot less percentage of my wage than it is now) Where as if you rent the rent will go up with the inflation every year. So you will be able to save alot more for your super if you own a house and of course you will have the house for part of your super as well.

That is why it is good to buy a house. May be its a pom thing but i was surprised when i got here how many people rent , and not because they can't afford to buy , just they like to rent, mmm semse mad to me . But as i say maybe its a pom thing :)

[100I]

... But as i say maybe its a pom thing :)

It's not a Pom thing. It is (or perhaps was) the great Aussie dream.

We've just sold ours at a tidy profit after some extensive reno's. Now about to build. BUT the actual mortgage remains the same, we're only upgrading by the amount of profit we made. We're not struggling because we've kept a level head, but when we start a family soon and drop back to one income sure it will get tighter, and having lived thru watching my folks paying 18% in the 80's I'm always wary of what it could be like if things spiral again.
As someone else has said, homeowners will be less of a burden on society in their old age (and my generation will not get a pension), it just makes sense to me that we should encourage and help people to buy their own house.

[HAK]

What? Don't you think the older generation ever struggled to cope? We paid our mortgage at 18%...we never had assistance for child care like you do these days...there was no consideration for families in the workplace, you worked what you could so me for example worked night shift so I could be at home with the kids during the day while Numpty worked. We had no family to mind the children as both my parents worked fulltime, and we didn't get govt assistance to pay for childcare, so we did what we did and struggled to cope. :D When your family is grown and you own your own home I bet you'll enjoy spending your hard earned because you can :D:D;)

We still do the same NM there are couples working day shift night shift to make ends meet nothing other then 18% intrest has changed :(

[HAK]

ROVERNT

Stevo is right

it's the young people spending big on LCD Plasma TV's , Consumer goods such as Mobile Phones, ipods , electronic goods in general , also car sales hit a record high last year in 2007

All-Time Record First Quarter for Car Sales | Media Release | FCAI (http://www.fcai.com.au/media/2007/04/00000134.html)

but what really pees me off is how my mate gets a $5K baby grant from our Tax money and he buys himself a LCD 46" TV and none of that money goes towards the child


hay i'll buy that, piont made in that case should GST falctuate to stop spending or is that a flog of the dead horse also.
Oh by the way blame Alan Jones from 2GB for that view he said I bought it

[Disco_owner]

my two pence,


lf you were given 5 grand for nothing from the tax man, I'm sure "you" wouldn't say, hey take it back Mr tax man "lm fine l don't need it" mmmmmm thought so! ;)


cheers

It's a baby Grant to assist you to feed and cloth your baby , and my point was why should the Government hand out to ones who are not in the need of this Grant , he works with me and is on a Extremely good Salaray , between him and his wife they earn a 5 figure salary & he already had a Nice Television but that wasn't enough, he had to keep up with the Jones and Bought a 46" Television from your taxes. so if i took 5K from your Tax money was spent on a LCD TV , Would you be happy with that? come'on Cuciandio...

[HAK]

thats a grey area and the reason why I say that we to got the grant when we had a little one and my wifes isnt doing to bad, what we didnt expect was her to be so ill in her preganacy, I paid $300 in medication alone each week when we got that grant it helped to buy those things we intented for our daughter yet couldnt

so it is a grey area trust me :(

[Disco_owner]

The Point is it's not a handout for NOTHING .. he recieved it to feed and cloth his new born baby & they're well off , he Just purchased a house for $550K, he isn't in need of recieving this grant and him and his wife both make over $100K + a year why would you & I have to pay from our taxes for his 46" LCD TV. There shoud be a system in place by government to helpout the families in need , I will be much happier if my Taxes helped out those who really truely needed this grant for feeding and clothing their new born, and that's the whole point of this Thread , consumer spending has gone up , rate of growth for economy and risen and hence RBA is increasing interest rates to slow down the Economy Growth.

[rovercare]

The Point is it's not a handout for NOTHING .. he recieved it to feed and cloth his new born baby & they're well off , he Just purchased a house for $550K, he isn't in need of recieving this grant and him and his wife both make over $100K + a year why would you & I have to pay from our taxes for his 46" LCD TV. There shoud be a system in place by government to helpout the families in need , I will be much happier if my Taxes helped out those who really truely needed this grant for feeding and clothing their new born, and that's the whole point of this Thread , consumer spending has gone up , rate of growth for economy and risen and hence RBA is increasing interest rates to slow down the Economy Growth.

Geez, have you had this out with your mate, sounds as if it'd come to blows:eek::angel::D

[Tango51]

The Point is it's not a handout for NOTHING .. he recieved it to feed and cloth his new born baby & they're well off , he Just purchased a house for $550K, he isn't in need of recieving this grant and him and his wife both make over $100K + a year why would you & I have to pay from our taxes for his 46" LCD TV. There shoud be a system in place by government to helpout the families in need , I will be much happier if my Taxes helped out those who really truely needed this grant for feeding and clothing their new born, and that's the whole point of this Thread , consumer spending has gone up , rate of growth for economy and risen and hence RBA is increasing interest rates to slow down the Economy Growth.

I reckon your just mad because his is bigger than yours:angel:

[Tango51]

Disco-owner, all jokes aside I understand how you feel, I do see your point.

The government is offering incentives for population growth, whereas China took responsible steps decades ago to curb population growth, each according to independant circumstances.
We are facing much more important issues nowdays, or more to the point we are NOT facing them....when a species grows wildly population wise, it faces nature's solution.
When it reaches a point that the environment will no longer support the species they experience catastrophic and massive die off.
Makes the spending issues fade a little, doesn't it?;)

[Captain_Rightfoot]

The Point is it's not a handout for NOTHING .. he recieved it to feed and cloth his new born baby & they're well off , he Just purchased a house for $550K, he isn't in need of recieving this grant and him and his wife both make over $100K + a year why would you & I have to pay from our taxes for his 46" LCD TV. There shoud be a system in place by government to helpout the families in need , I will be much happier if my Taxes helped out those who really truely needed this grant for feeding and clothing their new born, and that's the whole point of this Thread , consumer spending has gone up , rate of growth for economy and risen and hence RBA is increasing interest rates to slow down the Economy Growth.

Mate don't worry about it. If he is short sighted enough to buy a TV with it then so be it. Our baby bonuses went to pay the costs the medical bills incurred during the pregnancies, which were significant.

At any rate this whole plasma bonus thing amuses me. Sure you get 4 or 5 k handout from the Govt but anyone with half a brain wouldn't have a baby for this reason. I reckon our two kids (1.5 and 4) have cost us at least $250k so far in costs and lost wages. But, am I complaining? No. I don't doubt that there are people without half a brain that do have babies for the cash. Oh well.

So, the choices are, kids or a rental house every 5 years?

[loanrangie]

Mate don't worry about it. If he is short sighted enough to buy a TV with it then so be it. Our baby bonuses went to pay the costs the medical bills incurred during the pregnancies, which were significant.

At any rate this whole plasma bonus thing amuses me. Sure you get 4 or 5 k handout from the Govt but anyone with half a brain wouldn't have a baby for this reason. I reckon our two kids (1.5 and 4) have cost us at least $250k so far in costs and lost wages. But, am I complaining? No. I don't doubt that there are people without half a brain that do have babies for the cash. Oh well.

So, the choices are, kids or a rental house every 5 years?

If your kids cost that much, i'd be selling them ! I have 2 pretty much the same age and apart from the loss of 1 wage ( although FTB helps with that) they havent cost us 1/10th of that.

[HAK]

its grey dark grey ;)

[stevo68]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/52471-mortgage-repayments-post701721.html#post701721)
Addit: I know what I should do. Just like Stevo has said, I should get off may backside and go and do something about it. I will stop nursing immediately and leave the hospital system (just one more of 50,000 shortages, so who cares) and get a spiv job where I can make lots of money at anyone's expense. I'll be O.K.

That's a good idea!

Then all we need is for the other people who are stupid enough to work in jobs where as well as making a meagre living they are making contribution to society or providing an essential service to have a bit of get up and go.

We need all the people working in childcare centres to go and get a proper job that pays a six figure salary. Of course that will create a bit of a problem for the two income families who need the second income either to survive or to service the loan on their fifth investment property. But if they have any drive they will find a solution.

At the same time we could get all the other people like teachers who work in jobs that don't pay overtime to leave and work somewhere where they do get overtime. They will still be working the same number of hours of course, but then with their overtime payments they will be able to pay extra contributions into their super.

Some of those people in jobs like nursing, childcare and teaching are probably the same unmotivated people who are scout leaders, sports coaches or members of service clubs like Apex or Lions. They are probably frittering away time that could be spent earning money on some sort of voluntary work in their community. Don't they realise their time would be better spent getting a second job so they could invest in the stock market or real estate?

It is possible that we need a few spivs, CEOs on obscene salaries and people who make their money by calculating or guessing when to buy or sell foreign currencies.

However it is certain that society could not function as it does without some of the people who are prepared to work in jobs where there is a sense of satisfaction that comes from having made a difference either to some individual's lives or to society in general. And there is plenty of evidence of just how much our society depends on volunteers

Those people like nurses and people being paid a pittance in early childhood centres and similar jobs have made their choice just like the people for whom a six figure salary is the most important facet of the job. Both groups have to accept the consequences of their decision.

It would be nice if just occasionally some of those driven, highly motivated, successful people would show some understanding and gratitude to those who have kept society functioning in the way we all like it to instead of adopting the attitude, "I have made myself rich through my own efforts. You could have done the same." Whoo whoo whoo, some people are really showing some "poor is me" type attitudes. If some people actually read the context of what I have written, they may understand where I am coming from. My main point in any of this, is if you don't like what you are doing, want to have a better lifestyle...then do something about it. Don't whinge and moan about how tough it is for you or those around you.

Talk about "tall poppy" syndrome coming through loud and clear. What because someone who has taken risks to become successful in their chosen area, should be thankful to someone who has kept society functioning? Does that include a doctor on $200k+ a year? Or somebody who runs a cleaning business turning over $1mill a year in his business? Should the owners of business ( private/SME's provide the majority of jobs to average Austalians), who have taken a risk to put themselves on the line, who provide a livelihood to others, should they also be thanked. Nah, of course not.

Following the notion that " gee what Stevo said, should go make more $$$ doing something else" well the fact of the matter is that people don't. As mentioned earlier risk versus security. The average person would rather a weekly wage, holiday pay, sick pay etc and kudo's to them. A minority of people will take the risk of starting and running their own business in whatever field that maybe...a plasterer...a mechanic.....an accountant...doctor....etc etc. The average person doesn't want the stress or to push themselves. And there is nothing wrong with that, horses for courses, but don't complain about your own choices.

And so what if someone on a high income gets the baby bonus, what they should be penalised because someone works in a lower paying position? Once again the good ol, why he/she getting something I should be getting? To be successful in anything takes time, energy, motivation, commitment ie successful parent, successful business person, successful employee, successful sportsperson etc etc. It just doesn't happen. For some of you, if you arent prepared to take those steps to better your own life...don't poo poo those that do.

For those that have this notion of the "less fortunate" what are your solutions, when was the last thing you did something about it for them...would you swap places? Actions speak louder than words, for the "woe is me" crowd all there has been is either self negative responses or gee that person earns that, and gee what would happen if this. How about solutions if you care so much, anyone can have a whinge thats the easy part. Why not sell your own home and as thanks to one of these people give them enough $$$ as a deposit. Thats putting your money where your mouth is.

Finally, I am thankful to people I come into contact with, who have helped me in certain situations. I think that is pretty normal. People who volunteer their time I think is brilliant, I don't have the time so I donate instead. The most important thing I have learnt is that what ever you do or are doing, it is a choice...again re iterating, average person, average intelligence, 2 arms, to legs ie has the opportunities that we all do. I know people who left school before high school, so lacked education, but wanted more for their own life and have been very successful in a range of industries. I also know people who I would call "educated derelicts" who have had every opportunity yet have gone no where.

Regards

Stevo

[stevo68]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/52471-mortgage-repayments-11.html#post702643)
Mate don't worry about it. If he is short sighted enough to buy a TV with it then so be it. Our baby bonuses went to pay the costs the medical bills incurred during the pregnancies, which were significant.

At any rate this whole plasma bonus thing amuses me. Sure you get 4 or 5 k handout from the Govt but anyone with half a brain wouldn't have a baby for this reason. I reckon our two kids (1.5 and 4) have cost us at least $250k so far in costs and lost wages. But, am I complaining? No. I don't doubt that there are people without half a brain that do have babies for the cash. Oh well.

So, the choices are, kids or a rental house every 5 years?

If your kids cost that much, i'd be selling them ! I have 2 pretty much the same age and apart from the loss of 1 wage ( although FTB helps with that) they havent cost us 1/10th of that. At first I agreed with how could it cost that much...then I did some basic mathematics :D. We have 4 between us plus one on the way. If I just took my 4 almost 5 yr old and just on not having the extra wage assuming $40k a year for the missus, well thats $200k alone. Add feeding, clothing costs for one, yep I'd say $250k would be on the mark. I'm not going to even thiink of what the cost is with 4 let alone 5 from April :eek:,

Regards

Stevo

[HAK]

well said NM ;)

[Disco_owner]

And so what if someone on a high income gets the baby bonus, what they should be penalised because someone works in a lower paying position?


Question is Why Should someone on a Lower income get penalised for Payment thru Baby Bonus to someone who is on a much higher income and has absolutely no need for it " and then spend it something absoluetly frivilous like ( LCD TV )...

[cucinadio]

What because someone who has taken risks to become successful in their chosen area should be thankful to someone who has kept society functioning?


Steve l think what hes really trying to say is, in the big schem of things, they don't need to be "thankful" as you say, but they certainly shouldn't be rewarded for becoming successful any more than the ones who choose as you say "keep society running" !!

cheers

[cucinadio]

I don't think of children in economic terms...I think of them in terms of love and wanting. The money never even came into the equation :D:D;)


well put nm, what can l say "you go girl!!":D

cheers

[Captain_Rightfoot]

If your kids cost that much, i'd be selling them ! I have 2 pretty much the same age and apart from the loss of 1 wage ( although FTB helps with that) they havent cost us 1/10th of that.

Are you serious? When your partner was working, does she earn only 25k over 4 years? For example, if your partner earns 45k a year, and has had 2 years off for two kids, that's 90k. Then unless they go back you're then part time so probably on a reduced wage ... say 30 per year. Then you have to pay child care....... So you're probably only taking home 20. So, 2 x 25 = 50. We're up to $140 now... Yeah... you get some benefits from the govt but that also doesn't factor in lost super etc.

Can I also make the point that I'm not worried about the money but I was trying to make the point that the baby bonus is insignificant compared to the total cost of children.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

At first I agreed with how could it cost that much...then I did some basic mathematics :D. We have 4 between us plus one on the way. If I just took my 4 almost 5 yr old and just on not having the extra wage assuming $40k a year for the missus, well thats $200k alone. Add feeding, clothing costs for one, yep I'd say $250k would be on the mark. I'm not going to even thiink of what the cost is with 4 let alone 5 from April :eek:,

Regards

Stevo
Look on the bright side. The more you have it probably works out to less per child. That's value :) Get Breeding :D :D

[rovercare]

Steve l think what hes really trying to say is, in the big schem of things, they don't need to be "thankful" as you say, but they certainly shouldn't be rewarded for becoming successful any more than the ones who choose as you say "keep society running" !!

cheers

How is it, that a bloke earning more money, is "being rewarded" by recieving the 5k baby bonus, whereas the "harder done by" person is getting whats entitled??

The lower income earners get heaps more rewards, they pay less tax and get more government incentives, more saving on medical bills, health care cards, cheap rego, blah blah blah

The choices are out there, you just have to make the right ones

[Xavie]

How is it, that a bloke earning more money, is "being rewarded" by recieving the 5k baby bonus, whereas the "harder done by" person is getting whats entitled??

The lower income earners get heaps more rewards, they pay less tax and get more government incentives, more saving on medical bills, health care cards, cheap rego, blah blah blah

The choices are out there, you just have to make the right ones

Which would be great if it were that easy but the fact is it isn't. Many people seem to think it is as simple as if you want it get it but at the end of that's not how it works.

The lower income earners don't get rewarded. Health care cards are not a reward, nor is less tax. What it is is something to make sure society runs in some sort of harmonious way. It could be said and much more easily be put that people with more money get more rewards than those with less.

On top of all of this it seems like some people here are saying people just need to bite the bullet and get out there and work and all will be better- that's just ridiculous to even think that and I wonder which planet they are truly on 'cause it ain't ours.

Xav

[rovercare]

Which would be great if it were that easy but the fact is it isn't. Many people seem to think it is as simple as if you want it get it but at the end of that's not how it works.

The lower income earners don't get rewarded. Health care cards are not a reward, nor is less tax. What it is is something to make sure society runs in some sort of harmonious way. It could be said and much more easily be put that people with more money get more rewards than those with less.

On top of all of this it seems like some people here are saying people just need to bite the bullet and get out there and work and all will be better- that's just ridiculous to even think that and I wonder which planet they are truly on 'cause it ain't ours.

Xav

What are some of these rewards? that wealthy people get, I'll pay 35k in tax, that's 7 baby bonus', But if a I get one I'm being rewarded? but a lower wage earner isn't?

It IS a matter of bite the bullet and get on with, (we're not getting into semantics here, physical/mental incapacitation etc) I took risks to get myself into a high paid position, oppurtunities that I offered to others, but most people seem to be alot mor lax about it and prefer to whinge. There is money to be made on the side also, whilst playing on the internet or watching payTV, that's cash earning time, then the tears start, But kids, time with the wife, blah blah, all sacrifice and choices that are made, to get to a decent position, life is a choice, If you don't like what you do or what you earn, change.......simple?

I don't like what I do, but I do it to earn more coin, I could "live" on the money I take in, doing conversion, wrecking cars etc, but I'd be doing that forever and getting nowhere, that's right, more choices I've made

We're talking willing mind/able bodied people of course, it is their choice

[stevo68]

Wow...and just think Stevo...you have another 20 odd years of childraising to go yet!! :eek: I am sure my 2 never cost that much, but I haven't added the cost up anyway

I don't think of children in economic terms...I think of them in terms of love and wanting. The money never even came into the equation :D:D;) I absolutely love and adore my children and work very hard to provide for them, but of course economic's come into it. You have to earn the dollars so that you can put a roof over their head, food in their stomach, clothing, provide for their schooling etc. However I don't look at them and go hmm gee those 2 could be a Porsche :p.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo68 https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/52471-mortgage-repayments-post702693.html#post702693)

What because someone who has taken risks to become successful in their chosen area should be thankful to someone who has kept society functioning?


Steve l think what hes really trying to say is, in the big schem of things, they don't need to be "thankful" as you say, but they certainly shouldn't be rewarded for becoming successful any more than the ones who choose as you say "keep society running" !!

cheers Who are they and who is rewarding them for successful? Think we need to be specific as to whom "we" are talking about. My view of success is being happy in what you are doing and achieving, the number one is being parent and partner soon to be hubby. The financial aspect is secondary. I have earnt exceptional $$$ and have earnt not so exceptional $$$ in my career. Many people think success is a flashy car, home, toys etc, good on 'em, half the time those same people are up to their eye balls in debt. Success is personal, its not about what someone else thinks, it is about what you think. As I have said before, if you are happy turning a Stop/Go sign at a roadworks, enjoy your job, love your family...you are a success. If your goal is to conquor the financial world and earn squillions and are happy doing it, your a success. I don't know if what I am saying was related to this from Xavie
On top of all of this it seems like some people here are saying people just need to bite the bullet and get out there and work and all will be better- that's just ridiculous to even think that and I wonder which planet they are truly on 'cause it ain't ours., which doesn't quite make sense in its context as per the bolded part. But what I have been saying is that if you aren't happy with your lot in life, do something about it....and it is as simple as that....but most don't take the first step. If you love your job but it doesn't quite cut it in the $$$ area for things you would love to do....then find a way to earn some extra $$$. People do it all the time, the information is out there.

Keeping it real, I will give a personal example, in my 20's with my now ex, we moved back to Sydney, we were broke, I was on the dole, she was working and I was doing a part time nanny gig ( yeah yeah) looking after an adorable 18mth old. Quite simply had lost myself. So I went and bought books on motivation, goal setting etc and commenced. Wrote pages and pages of what I wanted out of life, where I wanted to be etc. I still have those notes and I look back on occasion to see what I have achieved and what I still need to do or change due to circumstance. I've been through divorce, lost everything, pulled myself up by the bootstraps and kicked on.

I used to employee people for direct sales telemarketing, normally mums wanting to earn a few extra $$, people who couldnt get a job to being past their "used by" date, many who came from what I guess you would say lower socio economic backgrounds. Some would turn up in the best that they could afford, but what I looked for was their attitude, is and always will be the distinguishing difference any any environment. Many were so excited that someone gave them a chance, but as I said to them...it is now up to you to take the opportunity and run with it. Most didn't, those that did earnt exceptional $$$ and changed their financial circumstances. You can apply that to any job, any industry, any profession.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo68 https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/52471-mortgage-repayments-post702693.html#post702693)

And so what if someone on a high income gets the baby bonus, what they should be penalised because someone works in a lower paying position?

Question is Why Should someone on a Lower income get penalised for Payment thru Baby Bonus to someone who is on a much higher income and has absolutely no need for it " and then spend it something absoluetly frivilous like ( LCD TV )... Reference....bolded part....how do you know they do not need it? Just because they are on a higher income, doesn't mean they arent experiencing the same debt to income equation as someone earning less. How does one know that someone on a lower income isn't doing the same, or would that be ok? The thing is you are going to find the same going on no matter what income bracket the person is, hence why it is for all, not just a select few. The colleage of that person may have spent their baby bonus on clearing up the credit debt used to buy all the babies new goodies, or put it into trust for Uni when the child is older. Who knows and should you really care?

To be quite honest, I have found this one of the best threads in a while as I am really surprised at peoples interests in who has what, or thats not fair, or spivs ( never heard that expression before) getting million dollar bonuses, I mean...so what? I can walk out of my office right now, look at the woman I love, the children I love and that is what matters, that is what I care about. Not what my neighbour earns, is getting, that their house is bigger/smaller, my family...that is it....and those that don't have the chances that most of us do.........that's the other lot that I care about,

Regards

Stevo

[Disco_owner]

Reference....bolded part....how do you know they do not need it

I know this because he is a close mate and he tells me everything... that's how...

[stevo68]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo68 https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/52471-mortgage-repayments-post702816.html#post702816)
Reference....bolded part....how do you know they do not need it

I know this because he is a close mate and he tells me everything... that's how... I understand initially you were referencing a mate, but in the context of the quote that I used, you stated
Question is Why Should someone on a Lower income get penalised for Payment thru Baby Bonus to someone who is on a much higher income and has absolutely no need for it " and then spend it something absoluetly frivilous like ( LCD TV )..., so is it only relevant to your mate, or people on higher incomes in general?

Regards

Stevo

[Disco_owner]

I understand initially you were referencing a mate, but in the context of the quote that I used, you stated , so is it only relevant to your mate, or people on higher incomes in general?

Regards

Stevo

Yes Steve initially I was , we often talk about things at work, he works 12 hour shift , i don't so I'm on relatively lower wage, initial point was " Why should someone on a lower income be penalised thru baby Grant to someone on a much higher Income " referance my close mate " I know more people out there who are using this grant from government on things they don't need instead of spending it on things they do need , ie new born medical bills , food , clothes etc which are important...

that's all .. been an interesting discussion thou...

[rovercare]

Yes Steve initially I was , we often talk about things at work, he works 12 hour shift , i don't so I'm on relatively lower wage, initial point was " Why should someone on a lower income be penalised thru baby Grant to someone on a much higher Income " referance my close mate " I know more people out there who are using this grant from government on things they don't need instead of spending it on things they do need , ie new born medical bills , food , clothes etc which are important...

that's all .. been an interesting discussion thou...

Ah so he makes a lifestyle sacrifice to earn more money, but is less deserving of the grant?, whereas someone who doesn't make that choice, and generally reaps the rewards of a decent body clock and time at home with the family aslo is more deserving

Are all the medicals etc paid? if so what's the problem:confused:

[rovercare]

Still waiting for ANYONE to tell me about these magical rewards for higher wage earners? because I'd like some:D

[Disco_owner]

Ah so he makes a lifestyle sacrifice to earn more money, but is less deserving of the grant?, whereas someone who doesn't make that choice, and generally reaps the rewards of a decent body clock and time at home with the family aslo is more deserving

Are all the medicals etc paid? if so what's the problem:confused:

That's the lifestyle he choosen ,he works 3 days and has 4 days off , it suits him fine , has no issues with body clocking and gets home to spend a few hours with his Kids , There is no problem ... I just said what peed me off is how people ( reference my mate ) earn the grant and spend it on their house Hold items instead of their new born baby. that's all.

[rovercare]

That's the lifestyle he choosen ,he works 3 days and has 4 days off , it suits him fine , has no issues with body clocking and gets home to spend a few hours with his Kids , There is no problem ... I just said what peed me off is how people ( reference my mate ) earn the grant and spend it on their house Hold items instead of their new born baby. that's all.

But its only a matter of which bucket of money, the kids meds are paid for? clothing? food? all the stuff which its supposed to be for.....I'm guessing yes

So if he bought the telly with his "own money" and used the "grant" for the childrens stuff, it would be ok, I fail to see the difference

[Xavie]

What are some of these rewards? that wealthy people get, I'll pay 35k in tax, that's 7 baby bonus', But if a I get one I'm being rewarded? but a lower wage earner isn't?

It IS a matter of bite the bullet and get on with, (we're not getting into semantics here, physical/mental incapacitation etc) I took risks to get myself into a high paid position, oppurtunities that I offered to others, but most people seem to be alot mor lax about it and prefer to whinge. There is money to be made on the side also, whilst playing on the internet or watching payTV, that's cash earning time, then the tears start, But kids, time with the wife, blah blah, all sacrifice and choices that are made, to get to a decent position, life is a choice, If you don't like what you do or what you earn, change.......simple?

I don't like what I do, but I do it to earn more coin, I could "live" on the money I take in, doing conversion, wrecking cars etc, but I'd be doing that forever and getting nowhere, that's right, more choices I've made

We're talking willing mind/able bodied people of course, it is their choice

Hmm... interesting

Xav

[loanrangie]

Are you serious? When your partner was working, does she earn only 25k over 4 years? For example, if your partner earns 45k a year, and has had 2 years off for two kids, that's 90k. Then unless they go back you're then part time so probably on a reduced wage ... say 30 per year. Then you have to pay child care....... So you're probably only taking home 20. So, 2 x 25 = 50. We're up to $140 now... Yeah... you get some benefits from the govt but that also doesn't factor in lost super etc.

Can I also make the point that I'm not worried about the money but I was trying to make the point that the baby bonus is insignificant compared to the total cost of children.

As i said COST, not loss of earnings.

[zulu Delta 534]

I realise that this is slightly off the mortgage subject, rather on our taxation system, but having read the previous posts, I feel that this is perhaps more to the point than it at first appears:
"Taxing the People" Explaining Taxation ...

Sometimes politicians, journalists and the liberal left exclaim; "It's just a tax cut for the rich!" and it is just accepted to be fact. But what does that really mean? Just in case you are not completely clear on this issue, I hope the following will help. Please read it carefully. Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand:

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

* The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
* The fifth would pay $1
* The sixth would pay $3
* The seventh would pay $7
* The eighth would pay $12
* The ninth would pay $18
* The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers", he said "I'm going to reduce the cost of your meal by $20."
Following the reduction, dinner for the ten would now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected They would still eat for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his "fair share?" They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to eat their meal. So, the restaurant owner suggested:

* The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings)
* The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings)
* The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings)
* The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings)
* The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings)
* The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings... the least proportionate savings)

Each of the six paying customers was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free.

But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings:

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got $10!"
"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than me!"
"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two?
The wealthy get all the breaks!"
"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"
As a consequence, the first nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money among all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start eating overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D

Professor of Economics

Regards
Glen

[stevo68]

I realise that this is slightly off the mortgage subject, rather on our taxation system, but having read the previous posts, I feel that this is perhaps more to the point than it at first appears:
"Taxing the People" Explaining Taxation ...

Sometimes politicians, journalists and the liberal left exclaim; "It's just a tax cut for the rich!" and it is just accepted to be fact. But what does that really mean? Just in case you are not completely clear on this issue, I hope the following will help. Please read it carefully. Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand:

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

* The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
* The fifth would pay $1
* The sixth would pay $3
* The seventh would pay $7
* The eighth would pay $12
* The ninth would pay $18
* The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers", he said "I'm going to reduce the cost of your meal by $20."
Following the reduction, dinner for the ten would now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected They would still eat for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his "fair share?" They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to eat their meal. So, the restaurant owner suggested:

* The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings)
* The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings)
* The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings)
* The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings)
* The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings)
* The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings... the least proportionate savings)

Each of the six paying customers was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free.

But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings:

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got $10!"
"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than me!"
"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two?
The wealthy get all the breaks!"
"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"
As a consequence, the first nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money among all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start eating overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D

Professor of Economics

Regards
Glen Brilliant,

Regards

Stevo

[rovercare]

Brilliant,

Regards

Stevo

Ditto:)

[dullbird]

the wealthiest man probaly owned a buisness and expensed that meal:D;).......then claimed it back

[goiridh]

* The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings)
* The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings)
* The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings)
* The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings)
* The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings)
* The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings... the least proportionate savings)

Regards
Glen

They're actually only paying $79 :D

[rovercare]

They're actually only paying $79 :D

I tell a similar joke, makes for a good arguement

Everyone settles on the fricken waiter stole it:D

[dullbird]

I tell a similar joke, makes for a good arguement

Everyone settles on the fricken waiter stole it:D


bash the waiter:bangin:.......................give me back my baby bonus!!!! you theifing git


dullbird has left th buiding


(to buy a tv):D

[Disco_owner]

bash the waiter:bangin:.......................give me back my baby bonus!!!! you theifing git


dullbird has left th buiding


(to buy a tv):D


lol

[rovercare]

bash the waiter:bangin:.......................give me back my baby bonus!!!! you theifing git


dullbird has left th buiding


(to buy a tv):D

:D I wouldn't buy a TV anyhow, I dont' watch the bloody thing;)

ANother Rangie perhaps:angel:

[dullbird]

:D I wouldn't buy a TV anyhow, I dont' watch the bloody thing;)

ANother Rangie perhaps:angel:


how cool would that be

lets get some stickers made up for our cars

"look what my baby bonus brought me":D:D

[stevo68]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dullbird https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/52471-mortgage-repayments-post702934.html#post702934)
bash the waiter:bangin:.......................give me back my baby bonus!!!! you theifing git


dullbird has left th buiding


(to buy a tv):D

:D I wouldn't buy a TV anyhow, I dont' watch the bloody thing;)

ANother Rangie perhaps:angel:
Well since we are on it, with my number 4 due in April, I did suggest perhaps an ARB bull bar and winch for the D3 :angel:, but alas I am with a sensible one, so it will go on baby stuff or repaying what we have already paid out. As my partner had open heart surgery 18mths or so ago, there are extra expenses to make sure she is all well and good with the bub. She is right of course...........dammit :D,

Regards

Stevo

[dullbird]

Well since we are on it, with my number 4 due in April, I did suggest perhaps an ARB bull bar and winch for the D3 :angel:, but alas I am with a sensible one, so it will go on baby stuff or repaying what we have already paid out. As my partner had open heart surgery 18mths or so ago, there are extra expenses to make sure she is all well and good with the bub. She is right of course...........dammit :D,

Regards

Stevo


you delivering it yourself are yeh steve:eek::o:D

[cucinadio]

It's a baby Grant to assist you to feed and cloth your baby , and my point was why should the Government hand out to ones who are not in the need of this Grant , he works with me and is on a Extremely good Salaray , between him and his wife they earn a 5 figure salary & he already had a Nice Television but that wasn't enough, he had to keep up with the Jones and Bought a 46" Television from your taxes. so if i took 5K from your Tax money was spent on a LCD TV , Would you be happy with that? come'on Cuciandio...




the basic premise is that if you were given 5 grand buy the tax man you wouldn't say no yhea ! thats what i mean, to make it clear I'm not saying that it should Be spent on a TV but think about the money you've already spent to set yourself up for the new arrival it would easily equate to 5 grand if it was your first so the money you get from the tax man gives that investment back in kind.

cheers

[Bushwanderer]

may i ask if you were in a well paid job?????
becuase i work with a number of people that could just not posibly even a morgage repayment let alone a house with the way things are rising

is it that you should only be able to have a house if you are forutnate to have a comfortable job.....???
these people work very very hard at there job for little money and some people in life dont work hard at all and dont have many worries in thre lives let alone a morgage payment

what about giving less fortunate people a fair go!!

beacuse the way i see it they would end up getting the money from the government with breaks another way

i dont beleive the governement should pay peoples morgages but i do believe they need to keep an eye on things a bit like the fuel price increases,

Hi Dullbird,
Unfortunately, I have NEVER been in a well-paid job, choosing to work for what I believe in rather than the $$$.

Nonetheless, what I did do was evaluate my circumstances & bought my home within them.

Best Wishes,

[Bushwanderer]

That is an interesting rationale.

When the interest rates were 17% the house prices were comparitively low (in today's standards). People rarely got mortgages if the repayments were more than 25% of weekly income.

According to RBA figures people are paying something over 35.2% of median weekly income to repay the average mortgage of today.

Figures from the REI suggest that the percentage of income currently spent on average mortgage repayments is 53% more than that paid at the peak during the Keating Government in 1989.

Bushwanderer your foresight cost you therfore 53% less on a weekly basis than my planning. And I am one of the lucky ones who didn't buy at the peak of the market and had more than 20% deposit - yet I am struggling at the moment and I don't even have a family to feed.

Diana

Addit: I know what I should do. Just like Stevo has said, I should get off may backside and go and do something about it. I will stop nursing immediately and leave the hospital system (just one more of 50,000 shortages, so who cares) and get a spiv job where I can make lots of money at anyone's expense. I'll be O.K.

Hi Diana,
In my reply to Dullbird, I advised that I have NEVER been in a high-paying job. Instead, what I did was make home investment decisions accordingly. Like you, it was a struggle, but at no time did I think that the gov't(s) should "bail me out".

While I haven't been in nursing I have tremendous respect for those that are/have, so I only recommend a change if you no longer love it.

Best Wishes,

[stevo68]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo68 https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/52471-mortgage-repayments-15.html#post702943)
Quote:
Well since we are on it, with my number 4 due in April, I did suggest perhaps an ARB bull bar and winch for the D3 :angel:,
but alas I am with a sensible one, so it will go on baby stuff or repaying what we have already paid out. As my partner had open heart surgery 18mths or so ago, there are extra expenses to make sure she is all well and good with the bub. She is right of course...........dammit :D,

Regards

Stevo


you delivering it yourself are yeh steve:eek::o:D
Hell no...first one I almost passed out when they were giving my ex wife an epidural...had to go have a lie down on the bean bag. Second one, tried to be stronger but again, nurse had to ask me repeatedly if I was alright as was very ashen faced. Third one, watched through the cracks of my fingers as I held up to my face.....and had to have a little sit down :D. So definately the answer is no to delivering the 4th one. Have asked for cable though :cool:,

Regards

Stevo

[sclarke]

End of the day we buy what we can afford.....

And dont get screwed along the way.

At one stage i had a house on an acre in Melb, a 10 acre bush block in ballarat and a flat...... but sadly things went pear shapped...

And i made no more than i do now...
Difference is..... i live different now.. why skimp just to say you have it all...
Those with the most toys win.......

Now i have an average house in an average suburb and i have the ability to buy toys when i want.... aposed to having a great house, great weekender and investment and not having a cent to spend on a pizza or a 4wd accessory when i want it.....

I know what life i prefer.....

BTW.... divorce will always cost you no matter what.....:D:D:D

[Bushwanderer]

Ah Ha - Inflation is all a plot by that gay guy Keynes - he invented it to make all the breeders suffer!

Diana

Hi Diana,
I'm sorry, but I think that this is unworthy of you.

Best Wishes,

[sclarke]

Ive just read every post... (unusual for me) to find this is not about morgage hand outs, but "Who makes more money and who has the better house"

So here is my house and my back yard....
Its not the best but its all mine.... and the Banks....

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/03/659.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/03/660.jpg

And the Baby bonus we will be getting in June...
I'm spending it on a 4.6V8 for the County....:p

[abaddonxi]

Ive just read every post... (unusual for me) to find this is not about morgage hand outs, but "Who makes more money and who has the better house"

So here is my house and my back yard....
Its not the best but its all mine.... and the Banks....

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/03/659.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/03/660.jpg

And the Baby bonus we will be getting in June...
I'm spending it on a 4.6V8 for the County....:p

But where's the pix of ya potato patch, Clarkie?

:D:D:D

Cheers
Simon

[Bushwanderer]

hay i'll buy that, piont made in that case should GST falctuate to stop spending or is that a flog of the dead horse also.
Oh by the way blame Alan Jones from 2GB for that view he said I bought it
Hi Rovernit,
In the case of investment, in a family home or any other area, it is important to choose carefully, the person(s) of whom's advice you select. Alan Jones?:o

Best Wishes,

[Captain_Rightfoot]

As i said COST, not loss of earnings.

Sorry I must have missed that. Agreed that over the four years so far the actual cost has been a fraction of the cost of loss of income.

[vnx205]

Whoo whoo whoo, some people are really showing some "poor is me" type attitudes. If some people actually read the context of what I have written, they may understand where I am coming from. My main point in any of this, is if you don't like what you are doing, want to have a better lifestyle...then do something about it. Don't whinge and moan about how tough it is for you or those around you. Stevo
Did you read my post carefully or did you just quote it?
Have you read a couple of my other posts in other threads where I advised people not to draw conclusions about my personal circumstances based on arguments I present?
Why do you assume the information in the post you quoted is about me?
By your logic that would make me a nurse, a childcare worker, a teacher, a member of Apex and Lions, a Scout leader, a sports coach etc. Sorry, but I'm not superman.
Don't assume this is some "poor is me" comment.
Some of us are capable of seeing things from someone else's point of view.


Talk about "tall poppy" syndrome coming through loud and clear. What because someone who has taken risks to become successful in their chosen area, should be thankful to someone who has kept society functioning? Does that include a doctor on $200k+ a year? Or somebody who runs a cleaning business turning over $1mill a year in his business? Should the owners of business ( private/SME's provide the majority of jobs to average Austalians), who have taken a risk to put themselves on the line, who provide a livelihood to others, should they also be thanked. Nah, of course not.
The only "tall poppies" I remember cutting down were the spivs, CEO's on obscene salaries and foreign currency dealer and I think I even conceded that we might need some of them.
Which part of my post was an attack on doctors and cleaners or indeed on anyone?


Following the notion that " gee what Stevo said, should go make more $$$ doing something else" well the fact of the matter is that people don't. As mentioned earlier risk versus security. The average person would rather a weekly wage, holiday pay, sick pay etc and kudo's to them. A minority of people will take the risk of starting and running their own business in whatever field that maybe...a plasterer...a mechanic.....an accountant...doctor....etc etc. The average person doesn't want the stress or to push themselves. And there is nothing wrong with that, horses for courses, but don't complain about your own choices.
Who's complaining?

Did you miss the following paragraph from my earlier post?

Those people like nurses and people being paid a pittance in early childhood centres and similar jobs have made their choice just like the people for whom a six figure salary is the most important facet of the job. Both groups have to accept the consequences of their decision.

In the original version, the last sentence wasn't highlighted, but it was there just the same.


And so what if someone on a high income gets the baby bonus, what they should be penalised because someone works in a lower paying position? Once again the good ol, why he/she getting something I should be getting? To be successful in anything takes time, energy, motivation, commitment ie successful parent, successful business person, successful employee, successful sportsperson etc etc. It just doesn't happen. For some of you, if you arent prepared to take those steps to better your own life...don't poo poo those that do.
I don't remember mentioning the baby bonus.


For those that have this notion of the "less fortunate" what are your solutions, when was the last thing you did something about it for them...would you swap places? Actions speak louder than words, for the "woe is me" crowd all there has been is either self negative responses or gee that person earns that, and gee what would happen if this. How about solutions if you care so much, anyone can have a whinge thats the easy part. Why not sell your own home and as thanks to one of these people give them enough $$$ as a deposit. Thats putting your money where your mouth is.
I don't pretend to have solutions to all of society's problems, just as I suspect you don't have solutions to problems such as how we provide childcare, aged care, health, education and similar services at a cost the community can afford while paying employees in those occupations a salary that really reflects the value of their contribution to society.
This post (like most of my posts) is not about me, so I am not prepared to say precisely what I have done to make a contribution to society, except to say that I am satisfied that I have done what I could and my conscience is clear.


Finally, I am thankful to people I come into contact with, who have helped me in certain situations. I think that is pretty normal. People who volunteer their time I think is brilliant, I don't have the time so I donate instead. The most important thing I have learnt is that what ever you do or are doing, it is a choice...again re iterating, average person, average intelligence, 2 arms, to legs ie has the opportunities that we all do. I know people who left school before high school, so lacked education, but wanted more for their own life and have been very successful in a range of industries. I also know people who I would call "educated derelicts" who have had every opportunity yet have gone no where.

Regards

Stevo
I said earlier that I wasn't complaining.
What I meant was that I was not complaining about my situation or about the "success" of others. After all we might not even agree about what constitutes success. Some people people might consider that it means earning enough to retire comfortably and ensure that your children are as well off as their peers.
Others might see success as raising a family of children who will be an asset to the world they will inherit.

However,if the only view of the world that someone has is, "I'm doing alright so there can't possible be anything wrong with the system", then I would complain about that person's attitude.
Actually I'm not sure that is true. I'm not sure that there would be any point in complaining. I think I would just be disappointed that they had such a limited outlook.

My original post was not about me.

I wrote it because a significant number of posts seemed to me to be espousing the idea that success was measured in terms of the size of your salary and the ability to service a mortgage.
It also seemed that a lot of the posts ignored the fact that some people have chosen careers that are not well paid but are essential for society to function.
It also seemed to be the consensus that the reason they were in poorly paid jobs was because they lacked drive.
I believe that a lot of nurses, to take just one example, have the intelligence and qualifications to work in more lucrative fields. I am grateful that they get sufficient satisfaction from knowing that they have made a difference to people's lives that they are prepared to continue to be part of the heath system that we all need.

Not everyone is concerned only with themselves. Some people can look at the system and say, "I'm doing OK, but I can see that others may not be."

[djhampson]

.... I wrote it because a significant number of posts seemed to me to be espousing the idea that success was measured in terms of the size of your salary and the ability to service a mortgage.
It also seemed that a lot of the posts ignored the fact that some people have chosen careers that are not well paid but are essential for society to function.
It also seemed to be the consensus that the reason they were in poorly paid jobs was because they lacked drive.
I believe that a lot of nurses, to take just one example, have the intelligence and qualifications to work in more lucrative fields. I am grateful that they get sufficient satisfaction from knowing that they have made a difference to people's lives that they are prepared to continue to be part of the heath system that we all need.

That is one of the most sensible things thats has been written in this thread and I agee with you 100%. And I think most would agree even though they may not have expressed that opinion in their posts.

[stevo68]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo68 https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/52471-mortgage-repayments-post702693.html#post702693)
Whoo whoo whoo, some people are really showing some "poor is me" type attitudes. If some people actually read the context of what I have written, they may understand where I am coming from. My main point in any of this, is if you don't like what you are doing, want to have a better lifestyle...then do something about it. Don't whinge and moan about how tough it is for you or those around you. Stevo

Did you read my post carefully or did you just quote it?
Have you read a couple of my other posts in other threads where I advised people not to draw conclusions about my personal circumstances based on arguments I present?
Why do you assume the information in the post you quoted is about me?
By your logic that would make me a nurse, a childcare worker, a teacher, a member of Apex and Lions, a Scout leader, a sports coach etc. Sorry, but I'm not superman.
Don't assume this is some "poor is me" comment.
Some of us are capable of seeing things from someone else's point of view.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo68 https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/52471-mortgage-repayments-post702693.html#post702693)
Talk about "tall poppy" syndrome coming through loud and clear. What because someone who has taken risks to become successful in their chosen area, should be thankful to someone who has kept society functioning? Does that include a doctor on $200k+ a year? Or somebody who runs a cleaning business turning over $1mill a year in his business? Should the owners of business ( private/SME's provide the majority of jobs to average Austalians), who have taken a risk to put themselves on the line, who provide a livelihood to others, should they also be thanked. Nah, of course not.

The only "tall poppies" I remember cutting down were the spivs, CEO's on obscene salaries and foreign currency dealer and I think I even conceded that we might need some of them.
Which part of my post was an attack on doctors and cleaners or indeed on anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo68 https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/52471-mortgage-repayments-post702693.html#post702693)
Following the notion that " gee what Stevo said, should go make more $$$ doing something else" well the fact of the matter is that people don't. As mentioned earlier risk versus security. The average person would rather a weekly wage, holiday pay, sick pay etc and kudo's to them. A minority of people will take the risk of starting and running their own business in whatever field that maybe...a plasterer...a mechanic.....an accountant...doctor....etc etc. The average person doesn't want the stress or to push themselves. And there is nothing wrong with that, horses for courses, but don't complain about your own choices.

Who's complaining?

Did you miss the following paragraph from my earlier post?

Those people like nurses and people being paid a pittance in early childhood centres and similar jobs have made their choice just like the people for whom a six figure salary is the most important facet of the job. Both groups have to accept the consequences of their decision.

In the original version, the last sentence wasn't highlighted, but it was there just the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo68 https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/52471-mortgage-repayments-post702693.html#post702693)
And so what if someone on a high income gets the baby bonus, what they should be penalised because someone works in a lower paying position? Once again the good ol, why he/she getting something I should be getting? To be successful in anything takes time, energy, motivation, commitment ie successful parent, successful business person, successful employee, successful sportsperson etc etc. It just doesn't happen. For some of you, if you arent prepared to take those steps to better your own life...don't poo poo those that do.

I don't remember mentioning the baby bonus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo68 https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/52471-mortgage-repayments-post702693.html#post702693)
For those that have this notion of the "less fortunate" what are your solutions, when was the last thing you did something about it for them...would you swap places? Actions speak louder than words, for the "woe is me" crowd all there has been is either self negative responses or gee that person earns that, and gee what would happen if this. How about solutions if you care so much, anyone can have a whinge thats the easy part. Why not sell your own home and as thanks to one of these people give them enough $$$ as a deposit. Thats putting your money where your mouth is.

I don't pretend to have solutions to all of society's problems, just as I suspect you don't have solutions to problems such as how we provide childcare, aged care, health, education and similar services at a cost the community can afford while paying employees in those occupations a salary that really reflects the value of their contribution to society.
This post (like most of my posts) is not about me, so I am not prepared to say precisely what I have done to make a contribution to society, except to say that I am satisfied that I have done what I could and my conscience is clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo68 https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/52471-mortgage-repayments-post702693.html#post702693)
Finally, I am thankful to people I come into contact with, who have helped me in certain situations. I think that is pretty normal. People who volunteer their time I think is brilliant, I don't have the time so I donate instead. The most important thing I have learnt is that what ever you do or are doing, it is a choice...again re iterating, average person, average intelligence, 2 arms, to legs ie has the opportunities that we all do. I know people who left school before high school, so lacked education, but wanted more for their own life and have been very successful in a range of industries. I also know people who I would call "educated derelicts" who have had every opportunity yet have gone no where.

Regards

Stevo

I said earlier that I wasn't complaining.
What I meant was that I was not complaining about my situation or about the "success" of others. After all we might not even agree about what constitutes success. Some people people might consider that it means earning enough to retire comfortably and ensure that your children are as well off as their peers.
Others might see success as raising a family of children who will be an asset to the world they will inherit.

However,if the only view of the world that someone has is, "I'm doing alright so there can't possible be anything wrong with the system", then I would complain about that person's attitude.
Actually I'm not sure that is true. I'm not sure that there would be any point in complaining. I think I would just be disappointed that they had such a limited outlook.

My original post was not about me.

I wrote it because a significant number of posts seemed to me to be espousing the idea that success was measured in terms of the size of your salary and the ability to service a mortgage.
It also seemed that a lot of the posts ignored the fact that some people have chosen careers that are not well paid but are essential for society to function.
It also seemed to be the consensus that the reason they were in poorly paid jobs was because they lacked drive.
I believe that a lot of nurses, to take just one example, have the intelligence and qualifications to work in more lucrative fields. I am grateful that they get sufficient satisfaction from knowing that they have made a difference to people's lives that they are prepared to continue to be part of the heath system that we all need.

Not everyone is concerned only with themselves. Some people can look at the system and say, "I'm doing OK, but I can see that others may not be." Well I guess I am flattered that you think that all my comments were directed at yourself, it would seem perhaps that you have not read the context of what I have written very thoroughly. In fact if you had noticed, I bolded the parts I was referencing. The rest you seem to have assumed that it was somehow in respect to yourself. If that was the case, I would have made that crystal clear.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vnx205 https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/52471-mortgage-repayments-post703202.html#post703202)
.... I wrote it because a significant number of posts seemed to me to be espousing the idea that success was measured in terms of the size of your salary and the ability to service a mortgage.
It also seemed that a lot of the posts ignored the fact that some people have chosen careers that are not well paid but are essential for society to function.
It also seemed to be the consensus that the reason they were in poorly paid jobs was because they lacked drive.
I believe that a lot of nurses, to take just one example, have the intelligence and qualifications to work in more lucrative fields. I am grateful that they get sufficient satisfaction from knowing that they have made a difference to people's lives that they are prepared to continue to be part of the heath system that we all need.

That is one of the most sensible things thats has been written in this thread and I agee with you 100%. And I think most would agree even though they may not have expressed that opinion in their posts. I would disagree that a large proportion of posts are saying that success is measured in terms of salary and being able to service one's mortgage. I would also disagree with the fact that some people choose careers that are low paid and the point that it has been overlooked...it hasn't...that is a given. Also what is the focus on nurses, I have known a few nurses and they are definately not in poorly paid positions, unless $50k+ a yr is poorly paid. The average wage is around $35k.


Not everyone is concerned only with themselves. Some people can look at the system and say, "I'm doing OK, but I can see that others may not be." Thats obvious, most people can have that perspective, but thinking it means squat. As you stated you werent talking about yourself, even if you felt that half a dozen of my posts were in reference to you, but others. If such a concern, what have you done lately to help/assist/ fund $$ towards or is it like so many who think it, say it but actually do nothing about it? Just presenting an argument, anybody can do that, putting your $$$ where your mouth is a different kettle of fish all together,

Regards

Stevo

[chunk]

quarantining home loans won't give the desired effect.

increasing interest rates works because it forces home owners to review their budgets and curb their spending..

But that's the problem, it's not the people with home loans that are doing all the spending. It's the yuppies and dinks that live in Sydney,Melbourne, Perth etc.. that are renters and buy a new car every couple of years and go to restaurants every night and go overseas two or three times a year.
And no amount of intrest rate rises are going to stop there spending.

[Ralph1Malph]

Hi all,
I haven't read all the posts but wanted to comment.
I am currently in the 'no' camp. Why?
1. I am ready to buy - I have the funds and capital.
2. I need folk to sell so the market floods and prices relax a little or,
3. Some poor punter will have to sell to avoid forclosure, and I can swoop (I'll ask how they voted before I make an offer):twisted:.

So it's really just supply and demand.

My 10c worth

Ralph

[chunk]

4; ls it only people over the age of 40 that are allowed to buy a big screen tv! jesus god help, theres no law that says people have to own a house to succeed, you'd be better off putting it all in your super and enjoying life.

See above quote in red,The Great Australian Dream, most Australians are told from a young age to buy a house as soon as they can no matter what.

The average person/family that lives in rented housing is looked apon as failures by most people that do own homes. Think about it how many times have you heard your parents say to someone "my Johnny ownes a nice house at so and so " if Johnny was renting they would say he lives at so and so, they would never say he rents a house.

Basically people are pushed into buying homes and furnishings they can't afford so that they don't look like failures to there families and friends.

[cucinadio]

4; ls it only people over the age of 40 that are allowed to buy a big screen tv! jesus god help, theres no law that says people have to own a house to succeed, you'd be better off putting it all in your super and enjoying life.

See above quote in red,The Great Australian Dream, most Australians are told from a young age to buy a house as soon as they can no matter what.

The average person/family that lives in rented housing is looked apon as failures by most people that do own homes. Think about it how many times have you heard your parents say to someone "my Johnny ownes a nice house at so and so " if Johnny was renting they would say he lives at so and so, they would never say he rents a house.

l

Basically people are pushed into buying homes and furnishings they can't afford so that they don't look like failures to there families and friends.



exzacery, thats what I'm saying in a sense.
mate iv owned a home and sold a home, because the first home was a complete compromise, we were paying way to much for it and it was more of a burden than a home that makes you feel safe and secure.
So we sold it at a profit and we will never buy another until we are what we are buying isnt a compromise, just to own a home. lf you cant have what you want in a home but still you struggle to pay ridicules amount of money to own it, whats the point "in my view".
We are putting it all in super/savings and when the time is wright we will build our own dream for the money.

l think at the end of the day, we all have our own view on it all and really each to there own !
but l really think that we all only make these decisions pertaining to our own situations! and hey l respect that.

cheers

[CraigE]

I think the issue of misuse of the baby bonus is very contentious. As long as the kids do not want, who cares what it is used for. The kids will use the big screen as well.
Our kids do not want for anything and a damn site more than the baby bonus has been spent on them.
However, selfish and abusive parents need to be brought to task. If it can be proven that neglect is occuring. It the ones that P&^s it against the wall, spend it on drugs, cars etc but the kids have rags for clothes and do not get fed properly that annoy me.
There are many single mums I have seen just go out and blow it on clothes and makeup on themselves while the kids are not fed. There are also many single mums who do the right thing and struggle too, so no offense intended. There are many couples that do similar as well.

[BigJon]

. Sorry, but I'm not superman.


Don't sell yourself short Allan :D. With a little application, training and wearing your undies on the outside of your pants, who knows? :p

[dobbo]

Don't sell yourself short Allan :D. With a little application, training and wearing your undies on the outside of your pants, who knows? :p

What you could go on a float in Sydney on 1st March?

[dobbo]

4; ls it only people over the age of 40 that are allowed to buy a big screen tv! jesus god help, theres no law that says people have to own a house to succeed, you'd be better off putting it all in your super and enjoying life.

See above quote in red,The Great Australian Dream, most Australians are told from a young age to buy a house as soon as they can no matter what.

The average person/family that lives in rented housing is looked apon as failures by most people that do own homes. Think about it how many times have you heard your parents say to someone "my Johnny ownes a nice house at so and so " if Johnny was renting they would say he lives at so and so, they would never say he rents a house.

Basically people are pushed into buying homes and furnishings they can't afford so that they don't look like failures to there families and friends.

I don't consider not owning a home a failure, I just cannot see the point in paying for someone elses house or assisting in paying for their retirement.

[BigJon]

I don't consider not owning a home a failure, I just cannot see the point in paying for someone elses house or assisting in paying for their retirement.

I think the logic is if you rent at a lower cost than paying for a home loan and all the associated outgoings (maintenance, etc) AND you put the savings (difference between rent and mortgage price) into high return investments, then at the end of 30 years (or whatever) you could be better off financially.

I can certainly see merit in this point of view. The trouble is the vast majority of people WON'T save / invest the difference. They will SPEND it.

Buying a house is both a way to invest and also effectively a way to save. If the money is going on a mortage to buy a house that in all likeliness will go up in value, or at worst stay the same value, then it isn't being spent on "junk". The "savings" can be accessed at a later date, if required, by selling the property.

[BigJon]

What you could go on a float in Sydney on 1st March?

I was thinking he could be Superman, but your idea works too :p.

[numpty]

I would disagree that a large proportion of posts are saying that success is measured in terms of salary and being able to service one's mortgage. I would also disagree with the fact that some people choose careers that are low paid and the point that it has been overlooked...it hasn't...that is a given. Also what is the focus on nurses, I have known a few nurses and they are definately not in poorly paid positions, unless $50k+ a yr is poorly paid. The average wage is around $35k.
Regards

Stevo

You're way off the mark here......the average wage these days is around $55,500, which makes a profession such as nursing "a poorly paid position", in the overall scheme of things.

[stevo68]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo68 https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/52471-mortgage-repayments-post703237.html#post703237)
I would disagree that a large proportion of posts are saying that success is measured in terms of salary and being able to service one's mortgage. I would also disagree with the fact that some people choose careers that are low paid and the point that it has been overlooked...it hasn't...that is a given. Also what is the focus on nurses, I have known a few nurses and they are definately not in poorly paid positions, unless $50k+ a yr is poorly paid. The average wage is around $35k.
Regards

Stevo

You're way off the mark here......the average wage these days is around $55,500, which makes a profession such as nursing "a poorly paid position", in the overall scheme of things. Yikes wages have gone up since I last checked. However that is a bloody good average wage, if you have 2 people working on an average wage that is over $100k a year. If it is such a poor wage for what seems to be centring on nursing, what would be a fair wage then? If you look at other professions, many are earning that same sort of wage, accountants, solicitors, engineers etc, so why is it that a nurse on the same wage is poorly paid? Sorry don't get it. To me a poor wage would be well under $40k p.a,

Regards

Stevo

[Utemad]

I think the logic is if you rent at a lower cost than paying for a home loan and all the associated outgoings (maintenance, etc) AND you put the savings (difference between rent and mortgage price) into high return investments, then at the end of 30 years (or whatever) you could be better off financially.

That is a plan that I considered but the problem I think is people have a certain amount of money to spend. $500 for example. They think if I rent I can get this awesome place but if I buy I can get this so so place. So there might not be any money left over to invest.

[numpty]

It's not a bad wage per se, but as I said, in the scheme of things, comparing it to the "average" wage, and there are not many couples with two wages of that amount who are setting up a home and having children. Also if you look at what a nurse is expected to do to earn a wage at all, is it any wonder they leave the profession in droves. Their choice of course:p.

Most engineers, accountants and solicitors that I have had anything to do with are doing better than that, and what about tradies in the building industry. I am not trying to turn this into a nurses only thread, (there are others who can take up that cause), just pointing out what obviously a lot of people miss in going about their own existence.

[BigJon]

Basically people are pushed into buying homes and furnishings they can't afford so that they don't look like failures to there families and friends.

They need higher self esteem, not a flash house!

[BigJon]

You're way off the mark here......the average wage these days is around $55,500, which makes a profession such as nursing "a poorly paid position", in the overall scheme of things.

Correct, I think I referenced the average wage as stated by the ABS earlier. November last year it was $1109 per week.

[BigJon]

That is a plan that I considered but the problem I think is people have a certain amount of money to spend. $500 for example. They think if I rent I can get this awesome place but if I buy I can get this so so place. So there might not be any money left over to invest.

Yep, and therein lies the problem with that line of thought.

People these days (get ready for a simple generalisation, I realise there are exceptions) no longer have the skill / art / mindset of delayed gratification.

"I want it all and I want it now" seems to be the thought process of many people.
It has been noted that banks and other money institutions make it too easy to borrow money and that is when people get into trouble.
As far as I am concerned, all the banks are doing is catering to what the market wants. People should self regulate their borrowing habits, not expect someone else to do it for them.

[stevo68]

It's not a bad wage per se, but as I said, in the scheme of things, comparing it to the "average" wage, and there are not many couples with two wages of that amount who are setting up a home and having children. Also if you look at what a nurse is expected to do to earn a wage at all, is it any wonder they leave the profession in droves. Their choice of course:p.

Most engineers, accountants and solicitors that I have had anything to do with are doing better than that, and what about tradies in the building industry. I am not trying to turn this into a nurses only thread, (there are others who can take up that cause), just pointing out what obviously a lot of people miss in going about their own existence. But I guess that is one of my points, should I or anyone else be concerned about what such and such is earning in such and such a profession.......and seems this only pertains to professions, no one is sticking their hand up for say a retails sales assistant, or the bloke cleaning dunnies, or the toll collector...guaranteed their not on $50k+ a yr.

Don't get me wrong, I have been to hospital and take my hat off to nurses, but I also take my hat off to alot of other people in various professions/ jobs as I know I couldnt do it in a million yrs. But in all of this, it is a CHOICE. If I apply for a position, know the type of work, know the wage, get accepted then complain about it, whose fault is that? And I think people have a right to not have to worry about what is going on in someone else's "existance", they have their own existance to worry about...ie self responsibility, family responsibility.

In my case I have a current family of 6 including myself to support and another one on the way. I have a mortgage, debts, a fledgling business to run....with a fair whack of stress in conjunction with all that....why should I care if someone else in another line of work is ticked off at the choices they have made? Guaranteed, folks arent going,hmmm " Geez wonder how the peeps in the finance industry are going" :angel:.

Also in general and I think Utemad knocked it on the head, many will go the flash rental as opposed to the older, further out place they can buy. In local paper, lass had parents help her buy a place, she could have done it herself, but she wanted to be 5mins from the city, so cost more, so needed help to do it. With all the "can't buy a house/ property" and those that concur.....do a search on one of the real estate websites. If I was in that situation, I could move 35mins from where I am and buy a reasonably priced place, or buy an investment unit or cheaper property to rent out for under $300k, in many cases closer to $200k. Its the old adage, where theres a will there is a way. My SIL and her hubby, now 24 and 23, bought a townhouse at 100%, they have sold it and come out with a deposit for a new house...they have the will and worked out the way,

Regards

Stevo

[BigJon]

So "It's every man for himself" ? Sorry but this all sounds a little selfish to me. ;)



I don't think that is quite the essence of what Steve is trying to say. More like make informed decisions / choices then accept responsibility for what you do.

Of course, that is just my interpretation, I am sure he will answer as well.

[stevo68]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo68 https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/52471-mortgage-repayments-post703427.html#post703427)

In my case I have a current family of 6 including myself to support and another one on the way. I have a mortgage, debts, a fledgling business to run....with a fair whack of stress in conjunction with all that....why should I care if someone else in another line of work is ticked off at the choices they have made? Guaranteed, folks arent going,hmmm " Geez wonder how the peeps in the finance industry are going" :angel:.

Regards

Stevo

So "It's every man for himself" ? Sorry but this all sounds a little selfish to me. ;)

Fact is, the world has become a very selfish place. Everyone concerned only with themselves. I look after myself first as well...but I also do consider others. Not much we can do about some of the others tho is there :angel:Bigjon pretty much nailed it for me :), but I will add that selfish would be if I was on my own, earnt big dollars and couldnt give a rats about anyone else...that is selfish. In fact, I work hard to provide for my family of 4, almost 5 children....how can that be deemed as selfish. We as a family also donate $$ and sponsor needy children O/S which I have also said earlier in on the thread...is that selfish?

Many people have expressed this concern for others, but expressing it is one thing, doing something about it is another?? I think to hold a view point that we should be concerned about others...but not actually do anything to assist is hypocritical...again only if the hat fits.

So my number one consideration is my immediate family, my children, my extended family and friends. That is my responsibility, it is not also my responsibility to be concerned with how and why other people make their choices...you make the bed...sleep in it,

Regards

Stevo

[feraldisco]

the problem with threads like this is that it distracts users from the 'Technical' forum... Us Land Rover owners have enough microeconomic problems without having to worry about macroeconomics... ;)

[Reads90]

it is not also my responsibility to be concerned with how and why other people make their choices...you make the bed...sleep in it,

Regards

Stevo

Agreed .

The problem is people go and buy a house that is right on their limit. Becuase it is nice and big and has all the toys . Then when somthing goes wrong, Ie they have kids, problem with the house, car Or interest rates go up. All hell breaks lose and they blame veryone esle for the problems.


Slightly differant loan but same sort of thing
I worked in the Land rover dealership in Brisbane and i had a customer who was in his early 20's He bought in a Mazda sports car (the four door one with the back doors that open the wrong way). It was 18 months old and he wanted a new Disco TDV6
Well for him to get this he would have to borrow the extra $70,000 to buy it , but he already owned $50,000 on the Mazda so even with the trade in of his car he started finace for $110,000 . He was happy with this and drove of the disco from the forcourt. A car now worth £70,000 (if he was lucky , as it was now second hand) of which he owed $110,000 for.. This bloke was as such a kid and had a $110,000 dept and did not even have a house and lived with his mum. I thought it was wrong to give him the loan and inmoral , and left land rover for that main reason . As this was not the only one

[Tango51]

The analogy of "Survival Of The Fittest" in modern society is for the intellectually debunked .
A phrase based in Philosophy by a philosopher has been so vastly misunderstood it is hard to know where to start, or even the value in trying.
Modern society has moved from individualism and competition to an egalitarian level of function in order to be successful....we have moved from the primitive to a more Utopian existance BECAUSE of the value of humanity and the desire to improve the lot of others....suffragetes<sp>
Too much we find those who see themselves as having more using these misunderstood concepts of the poor Charles Darwin to justify an ego position that somehow they are superior or that others are getting what they deserve and it detaches them from having to care or be responsible or initiate a motivation to improve anothers lot.

In following the illogical premise suggested by some, lets say all folks working jobs at 35 k a year made a 'better more informed choice<excuse me while I retch> and downed tools.
BANG.
Collapse.
Compare the world's two leading economies on a sociological viewpoint.
World leader runs on a non egalitarian every man for himself capitalistic philosophy and enjoys 20+ times the murder rate/20+ times the rape rate
30 times the Assault rate, an inefficient public transport system, health system, shocking education system compared to number two who function on an egalitarian economic system
I stress ECONOMIC
The USA has 80 million at the poverty level/ Japan has 112,000
USA 25 million below poverty and 12 million currently die of starvation.
Japan has 30000 below the poverty line and nil dieing of starvation.
Osaka Gas CEO earns 300,000 and bonuses less than double and the company services 22 million people.

The USA enjoys enormous natural resources, like us.
Japan have none. None.

There are real lessons to be learned.
I can see the intention of each poster but I wish I could cut through self interest and make the point that the interest of the group should, and one day soon, must be more important.

[BigJon]

I thought it was wrong to give him the loan and inmoral , and left land rover for that main reason . As this was not the only one

Which is fair enough. I call that the sleep at night factor. You have to be happy with what you do. It is your concience speaking :D.
On the other hand, as long as the loan wasn't forced on him and he made the decision knowing all the facts and of his own free will, what is the issue?
It ends up, once again, at the "take responsibility for your actions" end of the argument again.

[BigJon]

the problem with threads like this is that it distracts users from the 'Technical' forum... Us Land Rover owners have enough microeconomic problems without having to worry about macroeconomics... ;)

LOL :D:p.

Isn't a little distraction from the mundane every day problems a good thing sometimes?

[BigJon]

Tango51 - You can see I clicked the thanks icon for your post.

I do enjoy reading what you say, obviously you put more than token thought into your responses. I enjoy the balance and different perspectives that this site has to offer.

[stevo68]

The analogy of "Survival Of The Fittest" in modern society is for the intellectually debunked .
A phrase based in Philosophy by a philosopher has been so vastly misunderstood it is hard to know where to start, or even the value in trying.
Modern society has moved from individualism and competition to an egalitarian level of function in order to be successful....we have moved from the primitive to a more Utopian existance BECAUSE of the value of humanity and the desire to improve the lot of others....suffragetes<sp>
Too much we find those who see themselves as having more using these misunderstood concepts of the poor Charles Darwin to justify an ego position that somehow they are superior or that others are getting what they deserve and it detaches them from having to care or be responsible or initiate a motivation to improve anothers lot.

In following the illogical premise suggested by some, lets say all folks working jobs at 35 k a year made a 'better more informed choice<excuse me while I retch> and downed tools.
BANG.
Collapse.
Compare the world's two leading economies on a sociological viewpoint.
World leader runs on a non egalitarian every man for himself capitalistic philosophy and enjoys 20+ times the murder rate/20+ times the rape rate
30 times the Assault rate, an inefficient public transport system, health system, shocking education system compared to number two who function on an egalitarian economic system
I stress ECONOMIC
The USA has 80 million at the poverty level/ Japan has 112,000
USA 25 million below poverty and 12 million currently die of starvation.
Japan has 30000 below the poverty line and nil dieing of starvation.
Osaka Gas CEO earns 300,000 and bonuses less than double and the company services 22 million people.

The USA enjoys enormous natural resources, like us.
Japan have none. None.

There are real lessons to be learned.
I can see the intention of each poster but I wish I could cut through self interest and make the point that the interest of the group should, and one day soon, must be more important. Look there is no arguing with the differences, I studied this aspect of different cultures at University...going a while back now, but cultures such as Japan etc had a "feminine" perspective...cultures such as ours was deemed "masculine". Some cultures promote group effort, others individual efforts. Is there tax $$$ that I pay that could be better spent...of course.

My heart has and does go out to those that are truly needy in our society, that due to perhaps circumstance and moreso children, do not have the opportunities that the average Australian does. Does the average Aussie care, I'd most likely say not. Look at the $$$ spent on the Melbourne Cup, if every person was to donate $1.00 3 times a year what a difference that would make. We donate to the Smith Family as mentioned earlier as it goes to children from poorer background's with the hope that they can get an education and an opportunity to do something they want in life. We also donate $$ and support a child oversea's, who will never have close to what we have on offer here. I'm a firm believer in helping those that cannot help themselves. How ever I am not a believer in helping those that can help themselves.

Personally I don't think I am above someone else due to where I may live, what I drive, what I earn, it is more important that I am happy with my lot in life. And that has been the main crux of any of my posts on this subject. If your idea of paradise is working a 35hr week, living in a humble home, working in a stress free job and you love your kids...what more can you ask for? There will always be someone who has more or less than oneself. I've been the person whose idea of success was a flashy car, house, clothes etc...........and lost it all, it was a huge learning curve. I now place value in more important things,

Regards

Stevo

[garryc]

I've read this topic with interest.

Having just relocated from down south to north QLD I've had to re acquire a mortagage again to purchase our desired property. We are currently working our azz of to pay for it at about $500 per week.

My stepson moved up here about the same time. Broke, no cash, 2 litlte kids and a couple of other social handicaps.

He sniveled on his mother's shoulder at one stage and said he didn't "puss his money up against the wall".

Well, still renting, kids get stuff that anyone with a brain that was broke wouldn't buy, now go to a private skool, etc etc etc etc etc.

It will be a cold day in hell b4 he gets ANYTHING from me again. Thing is, we bent over backwards for the little darlings to give em everything and what has that got us.

A generation of kids that expect everything and will work for nothing, a generation of kids that will take advantage of 2 years interest free and then whinge when they get slugged with 18% interest, a generation that are flat out building the nations debt as fast as they can, a generation that largely have a f u attitude to society in general and simply do not understand allegiance and work ethic, a generation of kids who are largely ill educated, ignorant and arrogant.

Make no mistake about it. We are headed towards a recession, driven by the spoilt whingy whiney generation that we created. I trust we still have the integrity to put our hands up and shoulder our responsibility for what will beset us in the future!

I agree with some of your statements. The younger generation expect everything and quickly. Some of us that had parents who came through a depression and a war and a household with only one income have a different outlook to the current generation. The current generation is faced with a totally different situation, 100% house loans without a deposit, household goods, nothing to pay for 3 years etc. They fall into the trap. I think that the pressure from advertising and society blind them to the pitfalls. And the business people walk away with money regardless. If the govt. should do anything, it should be to legislate to require a deposit, get rid of the "nothing to pay" period and even think about cheap housing for those starting out. :)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I agree with some of your statements. ...

... If the govt. should do anything, it should be to legislate to require a deposit, get rid of the "nothing to pay" period and even think about cheap housing for those starting out. :)
Garry

You know, I have been reading this thread since it started with an few posts, and one thing that stands out is the number of people who suggest that they didn't "get it together" until in their 30s.

It is true - young people want to enjoy life and get out there and do stuff. Maybe Government assistance is wasted on the young, it should possibly wait until all that extravagance is out of them perhaps a minimum age for assistance???

Diana

[stevo68]

Garry

You know, I have been reading this thread since it started with an few posts, and one thing that stands out is the number of people who suggest that they didn't "get it together" until in their 30s.

It is true - young people want to enjoy life and get out there and do stuff. Maybe Government assistance is wasted on the young, it should possibly wait until all that extravagance is out of them perhaps a minimum age for assistance???

Diana Good point there Diana ( bought those shoes yet :p), I know for myself at my age...tender 39 :D, I did buy land in my late 20's but that went through divorce, and next time I bought a place was mid 30's. Also a lot of people tend to be having children later as well. Could I have bought a place in my early 20's...would have been very difficult, especially when you generally did need at least 20% deposit plus your extra costs over and above.

Regards

Stevo

[vnx205]

.............. ............... Also what is the focus on nurses, ............... .......................

Regards

Stevo


....... ........... I am not trying to turn this into a nurses only thread, (there are others who can take up that cause)

I don't want to turn this into a nurses only thread either but I will explain why I have focussed on them.

Better still, I will offer two possible explanations and it will be your choice which one you accept.

It might be that I mentioned nurses because I often see examples of how the remuneration for a job bears no relationship to the training and qualifications required, the level of responsibility and dedication the job entails or the worth of what the person does in that job. It may be that I place great value on what nurses do and believe that there are people who are only alive and well today because of the dedication of nurses.
On the other hand I see CEO's whose only contribution seems to have been to slash the size of the workforce, artificially inflate the value of shares to get their "performance bonus", lose the company and the shareholders millions of dollars and yet they walk away with a golden handshake.
I know which one I think has earned their pay.

I'm trying not to sound as if I'm complaining about this. I'm just trying to point out something that I'm sure most people are aware of; that how much you are paid doesn't really reflect the true worth of what you do.

I accept that my reaction is as much emotional as logical and I don't know that anything can be done about it. It's just a thought that occurs to me in my idle moments.

Nurses are just one obvious example of people whose work is undervalued.


The second possibility is that is that I am just sucking up to the nurses on this forum because I think that one day my life or my health might be in their hands and I don't want them offside.
I don't expect to have direct dealings with the likes of Solomon Trujillo, so I can afford to be rude about him.

(Just as an aside, look what I found when I was searching for the spelling of his name. How can anyone imagine he was worth that much?
American Solomon Trujillo will earn up to $11 million in his first year as Telstra's new chief executive.)

So there you have it! Two possible explanations. The choice is yours.

[stevo68]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo68 https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/52471-mortgage-repayments-post703237.html#post703237)
.............. ............... Also what is the focus on nurses, ............... .......................

Regards

Stevo

Quote:
Originally Posted by numpty https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/52471-mortgage-repayments-post703402.html#post703402)
....... ........... I am not trying to turn this into a nurses only thread, (there are others who can take up that cause)

I don't want to turn this into a nurses only thread either but I will explain why I have focussed on them.

Better still, I will offer two possible explanations and it will be your choice which one you accept.

It might be that I mentioned nurses because I often see examples of how the remuneration for a job bears no relationship to the training and qualifications required, the level of responsibility and dedication the job entails or the worth of what the person does in that job. It may be that I place great value on what nurses do and believe that there are people who are only alive and well today because of the dedication of nurses.
On the other hand I see CEO's whose only contribution seems to have been to slash the size of the workforce, artificially inflate the value of shares to get their "performance bonus", lose the company and the shareholders millions of dollars and yet they walk away with a golden handshake.
I know which one I think has earned their pay.

I'm trying not to sound as if I'm complaining about this. I'm just trying to point out something that I'm sure most people are aware of; that how much you are paid doesn't really reflect the true worth of what you do.

I accept that my reaction is as much emotional as logical and I don't know that anything can be done about it. It's just a thought that occurs to me in my idle moments.

Nurses are just one obvious example of people whose work is undervalued.


The second possibility is that is that I am just sucking up to the nurses on this forum because I think that one day my life or my health might be in their hands and I don't want them offside.
I don't expect to have direct dealings with the likes of Solomon Trujillo, so I can afford to be rude about him.

(Just as an aside, look what I found when I was searching for the spelling of his name. How can anyone imagine he was worth that much?
American Solomon Trujillo will earn up to $11 million in his first year as Telstra's new chief executive.)

So there you have it! Two possible explanations. The choice is yours. Ok, just so as no confusion I am specifically responding to what you have written:p. Look, I think the comment about CEO's was very generalised and correct me if I am wrong, based on commentary that is written in popular press without having any actual basis for forming an opinion, ie have you ever run a business, a multi national business, 100-1000++ staff, worked high up in corporate? Unless you have, of course you can comment, but you don't really know what it is like to be in a position of that nature, and lets not forget that shareholders play a part in determining salaries and bonuses etc.

Whats not to say that the likes of Trujillo is getting paid his worth when you consider he is at the helm of a billion dollar business employing thousands and thousands of staff. Could you do it? I couldnt. I will also agree that there are then people who are not paid there worth, but is that not a choice? Also how do you justify your truth worth, can you as an individual do it or is it by what the market dictates, it is generally the latter. Ask anyone "Should I be paid more"...are they going to say no?

Regards

Stevo

[EchiDna]

*butts into the discussion*

I think this whole discussion has become a bit over simplified... one must also admit that not all nurses, school teachers and policemen do the job out of wanting to feel they are giving something to the community. To me all these "community service" type jobs have a certain 'calling' associated with them, however a certain proportion of those employed in these feilds (how large? I dunno...) do these tasks purely as a job, a way to make money and a way to pay the bills, not because they love to help people. This group of people do have a choice and they have chosen to stay where they are, earning what they do. To say they are not entitled to expect to afford a simple house is wrong, however to say they deserve a McMansion is also wrong... if you wanted a 6 bedroom house when I was a kid, you blardy well earnt it or inherited it, not borrowed it from the bank complete with all furnishings...

[stevo68]

I actually really love what I do. But every now and then things happen that make you wonder why you do the job :( But I have to say the plusses generally outweigh the minuses :) I think many of us have that notion at different times :), oh to have only been born taller, with a great singing voice and be in a rock and roll band :cool:

Regards

Stevo

[sclarke]

This will beat the "I can see the Stars" thread soon..........

Best agrument thread i've watched in weeks.....
apossed to the Urban cowbow and Maxi thread

[vnx205]

Ok, just so as no confusion I am specifically responding to what you have written:p. Look, I think the comment about CEO's was very generalised and correct me if I am wrong, based on commentary that is written in popular press without having any actual basis for forming an opinion, ie have you ever run a business, a multi national business, 100-1000++ staff, worked high up in corporate? Unless you have, of course you can comment, but you don't really know what it is like to be in a position of that nature, and lets not forget that shareholders play a part in determining salaries and bonuses etc.


Yes it was very generalised. It's what usually happens when you just want to have a bit of a go at a particular group. Intellectually unsound, I know, but we all do it. (Actually that is another generalisation. I mean; I think a lot of us do it.)

I have great difficulty with the common argument that you have to have been in a particular position to know what it is like. I believe that (some) people have sufficient imagination and are prepared to do sufficient research to enable them to form a reasonably clear picture of something that is not part of their personal experience. If you think about it, the world could hardly function if the only way a person could have an appreciation of something was to experience it personally.
I suspect that you have not personally experienced the squalor and levels of deprivation suffered by some children in third world countries, yet you have enough of an idea to see the value in providing financial aid through the donations you make.
Of course I might be wrong. You might have seen it with your own eyes, but a lot of people who donate have not.


Whats not to say that the likes of Trujillo is getting paid his worth[/B] when you consider he is at the helm of a billion dollar business employing thousands and thousands of staff. Could you do it? I couldnt. I will also agree that there are then people who are not paid there worth, but is that not a choice? Also how do you justify your truth worth, can you as an individual do it or is it by what the market dictates, it is generally the latter. Ask anyone "Should I be paid more"...are they going to say no?

Regards

Stevo

Maybe Trujillo was worth that much money, but I can't help feeling that there must be someone out there who would have been interested and could have done just as good a job for a paltry $5 million.
I was actually trying to remember the name of the CEO of a financial institution who a few years ago after a disastrous time at the helm was paid a fortune to get rid of him. I don't think anyone thought he was actually worth it. They just had to do it to get rid of him.

How do you justify your real worth? You can't. As you say, the market determines that and as I think we both agree, the market is not really interested in the worth of the work. Sad, but true and realistically there is not much we can do about it.

[stevo68]

I have great difficulty with the common argument that you have to have been in a particular position to know what it is like. I believe that (some) people have sufficient imagination and are prepared to do sufficient research to enable them to form a reasonably clear picture of something that is not part of their personal experience. If you think about it, the world could hardly function if the only way a person could have an appreciation of something was to experience it personally.
I suspect that you have not personally experienced the squalor and levels of deprivation suffered by some children in third world countries, yet you have enough of an idea to see the value in providing financial aid through the donations you make.
Of course I might be wrong. You might have seen it with your own eyes, but a lot of people who donate have not. Reference bolded part, I can't see the difficulty at all, like the old adage..Unless you have walked in someones shoes, imagination is all you have and that isn't the same. Could I put forth a position or an arguement based on imagination, for sure, but it would lack substance, passion and belief, because it is not drawn from my own personal experiences.

I think human suffering and whether a CEO earns to much and trying to equate the 2, is talking chalk and cheese. The only possible relevance is that if you are going to support a cause or an argument, what is your actual contribution or is it just hot air. In my case, I cannot imagine it, but I support it by putting my money where my mouth is and whether you have witnessed first hand or not is irrelevant...as long as the $$$ come to those that need it.

All in all its just my opinion, but I would prefer to here an arguement put forth by somebody who has relevant and personal experience as opposed to what some one has read or imagined...wouldn't you? Hence, if you had worked at the very top in corporate as opposed to what has been read in the Daily Mirror or been recounted on ACA in respect to CEO's or anyone else for that matter...it does make a difference. There is a hell of a lot more substance from someone who speaks from experience as opposed to someone who thinks they do,

Regards

Stevo

[stevo68]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo68 https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/52471-mortgage-repayments-20.html#post703724)
I think many of us have that notion at different times :), oh to have only been born taller, with a great singing voice and be in a rock and roll band :cool:

Regards

Stevo

Not quite Steve....more like "Oh to have been born with a body like Elle MacPherson" :D:D
__________________
NM Fair call :D, but yes would have loved to have been born with that ability and fulfill my dream world man of a long haired, guitar playing singer in a HM band :cool:,

Regards

Stevo

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...
The second possibility is that is that I am just sucking up to the nurses on this forum because I think that one day my life or my health might be in their hands and I don't want them offside....

Hmmmmm, and you think that bad mouthing nurses on this AULRO forum will get remembered next time you're a patient????


Ok, just so as no confusion I am specifically responding to what you have written...
... and lets not forget that shareholders play a part in determining salaries and bonuses etc...
...
Stevo
What I find about the part that shareholders in setting CEO salaries is that they have very little power.

Every dollar that is paid to a CEO is less money that will be distributed to shareholders in the form of dividends. You do see shareholder groups putting up resolutions at AGM to block salary increases to CEO but it is rare that they get through. The motions usually fail because of the share quantity held by the CEO and executives of the company.

Diana

[EchiDna]

Hmmmmm, and you think that bad mouthing nurses on this AULRO forum will get remembered next time you're a patient????


What I find about the part that shareholders in setting CEO salaries is that they have very little power.

Every dollar that is paid to a CEO is less money that will be distributed to shareholders in the form of dividends. You do see shareholder groups putting up resolutions at AGM to block salary increases to CEO but it is rare that they get through. The motions usually fail because of the share quantity held by the CEO and executives of the company.

Diana

only for little $100,000,000 or so companies :)

my company's share price is over 1000 euro per share... there are also over 100,000,000 shares... if the CEO has a package of just 10,000 of those he would be selling and retiring! big MNC CEOs paypackets are huge, no doubt, but then most of them have a job life expectancy of about 2-3 years and it's taken them their whole career to get there.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

My friends are property investors. Currently very very wealthy. But, they do it for pleasure. They both work mega jobs and huge hours to pay them all off.

Their kids are the same age as ours and the long care and minimal parent time are showing through by now IMHO which is very sad. They rarely smile.. or talk. :( I hope it sorts itself out but I'm concerned for what they will be like when they are in their teens.

I'm damn sure they are going to die richer than me, and that's worth living for. :wasntme::wasntme:

[goiridh]

I think many of us have that notion at different times :), oh to have only been born taller, with a great singing voice and be in a rock and roll band :cool:

Regards

Stevo

So Stevo, you secretly want to be Robert Plant? :D

[stevo68]

Quote:
Originally Posted by goiridh https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/52471-mortgage-repayments-21.html#post703926)
So Stevo, you secretly want to be Robert Plant? :D

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

If he was Robert Plant I'd think he was sexy :eek::eek::eek::eek: (well, back in the 70's at least...Stevo's not old enough!!...to be Robert Plant)NM's right am to young to be Robert Plant, more likely Dave Grohl, Jeff Martin, Ian Astbury :), ahh but who I am kidding :angel:,

Regards

Stevo

[Bigbjorn]

Hmmmmm, and you think that bad mouthing nurses on this AULRO forum will get remembered next time you're a patient????



Diana

Keep his special bed pan, with the rough edges, in the freezer.

[JohnF]

Hi, my first RR cost $1500-- [rust got it around windows. Sold it for $500 as a wreck after geting 2 years use out of it, and keeping parts--new springs--with lift, workshop mamuel etc.--for my next RR. Seats we bought from this 2 door, plus workshop manuel is currently advertised on this forum. the Next RR I bought cost $2000-, currently advertised on this forum. We got 2 years from it before buying one cheap RR with gas gear ready to be fitted] the reason we own old RR is we need a $WD for our drive, and we do not want to borrow to buy a better car, a discovery diesel. We own our own house, morgage free in the country in the mountains, near queensland border. From home we look over the valley to nightcap national park. within less than a kilometer from home we can see another 4 national parks--border ranges, mount warning, lamington, and a new one that was previously Mebin state forest--do not know the name of this new national park. We sold our 2 bedroom fibro house in Sydney on a busy road, opposite a rail way line, and paid out our mogage and bout 12 acres with a lovely stone house to window level, then western red cedar, buying this with a private $10,000 morgage withnthe seller, which we paid of when some expected money arrived from a will. My personal opion is interest rates should be lower. The banks make a fortune by leanding you government money supplied by the reserve bank, a private company who tells the government they can print more money and give it to them, and then charge the government interest on what it loans to them. Malcolm Turnbull a multi millionare became a multimillionare are by lending other peoples money and charging interest. The Bank charges you to keep your money in the bank, while lending it to people buying a home and charging these people to borrow your money.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Keep his special bed pan, with the rough edges, in the freezer.
That would be the monel metal bedpan with the rough edges in the freezer.

However as NM suggests we have far more interesting devices!

Diana :twisted: :twisted:

[vnx205]

Keep his special bed pan, with the rough edges, in the freezer.


Ho Ho...there are far worse things than special bedpans :twisted:


That would be the monel metal bedpan with the rough edges in the freezer.

However as NM suggests we have far more interesting devices!

Diana :twisted: :twisted:

See!

I knew it was a good idea not to get nurses off side.

I don't think I even want to know about the things that are worse than a freezing cold abrasive bedpan.:o

[spudboy]

I don't think I even want to know about the things that are worse than a freezing cold abrasive bedpan.:o


oooh - I do! What are they.......?

[rmp]

It's fine to give examples of people who went from bankrupt to millionaire, and other self-starters. Good on them. But the problem is that not everyone has the capability to do that, any more than we all have the capability to be top-flight sportsmen or artists. So, no point looking down on others for not using abilities they don't have.

The fact is that each of us have an earning ability, limited by talent, ambition and to some extent luck. The simple answer is whatever your earning ability, live inside it.

While it's a cliche, it really is true that money doesn't buy happiness. Just plan whatever finances you have, and accept that you may not be able to live the life you see others enjoying. Or, if you try, you'll come unstuck.

Problem is I think quite a few people don't have a basic grasp of maths, or consider the long-term and are vaguely hoping that the a combination of government benevloence, super, inheritance and luck will see them right in retirement.

What the government could do is fund some basic financial education classes. I'd prefer that to any bailouts or other rescue packages. Friend told me the other day they hadn't realised how little principal they'd repaid from their mortgage after the first year, and they signed the damn thing!

Personally interest rate rises don't bother me, we bought well within our means. There could be a Rangie Sport on our driveway, but there's not, there's a smaller mortgage with the bank instead.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hmmm...well buckets, rubber and lots of soapy water come to mind ;) and Diana will know where I am going :twisted:

High, Hot and Hell-Ov-a-Lot I always say! :twisted::p

Diana

[vnx205]

Ok, just so as no confusion I am specifically responding to what you have written:p. Look, I think the comment about CEO's was very generalised and correct me if I am wrong, based on commentary that is written in popular press without having any actual basis for forming an opinion, ie have you ever run a business, a multi national business, 100-1000++ staff, worked high up in corporate? Unless you have, of course you can comment, but you don't really know what it is like to be in a position of that nature, and lets not forget that shareholders play a part in determining salaries and bonuses etc.

Regards

Stevo
I remain convinced that (most) people have the capacity to understand/appreciate/visualise things they have not personally experienced, but I will have to leave that point for the moment because I want to focus on something else.


Whats not to say that the likes of Trujillo is getting paid his worth when you consider he is at the helm of a billion dollar business employing thousands and thousands of staff. Could you do it? I couldnt. I will also agree that there are then people who are not paid there worth, but is that not a choice? Also how do you justify your truth worth, can you as an individual do it or is it by what the market dictates, it is generally the latter. Ask anyone "Should I be paid more"...are they going to say no?

Regards

Stevo
I'm not sure if you're suggesting that it is the stress and the responsibility of the position that make high flying CEOs worth so much money. If not, then the following comments are in response to what others have suggested rather than a direct response to your post.

What is the worst thing that could happen to people running a small business who find that cheap imports from China and other factors mean that they have to make a decision whether to get out before they go broke, diversify, soldier on or whatever?
Any money that is lost by the business is their money.
If they get it wrong, they might finish up losing the business they have spent their whole life building up, their life savings, their house and their car.
They might have to move to where housing or rent is more affordable which means they would have to disrupt their kids' education by moving them to another school.
They might find it difficult after that to borrow money to establish another business or to invest in housing.

What is the worst thing that could happen to some of these CEO's?
Most of the money they lose comes out of the pockets of employees and shareholders.
They might get sacked or whatever the term is for getting rid of a CEO.
In that case they often seem to have some sort of a contract that gives them a golden handshake as a reward for their incompetence.
With the salary packages that some of them have enjoyed, the few millions they have left to survive on will, if properly invested, probably only give them a million or so to survive on each year.
Even if their credibility is so damaged that they are never able to work again, they will still enjoy a lifestyle most people can only dream about.

Which of those two has the most to lose? Which one is under the most stress? Which one feels the greatest sense of responsibility?

I don't accept that just because the company is bigger, the head of that company will suffer greater loss if he/she gets it wrong.

Before you ask; no I have not been in the position of trying to keep a small business profitable myself, but I have been close enough to someone who was to see the burden it places on them.

I know that CEO salaries are determined by such things as market forces and I'm sure they will continue to be paid outrageous sums of money, but I am not convinced that they have any greater stress or responsibility than a lot of small business people or even some employees.

I still think they are overpaid.

[vnx205]

Hmmm...well buckets, rubber and lots of soapy water come to mind ;) and Diana will know where I am going :twisted:


High, Hot and Hell-Ov-a-Lot I always say! :twisted::p

Diana
I was right!
There are some things it is better not to know!:o

[Tote]

Hmmm...well buckets, rubber and lots of soapy water come to mind ;) and Diana will know where I am going :twisted:

With talk like that you girls could set up a website.................:wasntme:
Regards,
Tote

[Lotz-A-Landies]

With talk like that you girls could set up a website.................:wasntme:
Regards,
Tote
Don't have to they are already out there - although I do have a friend who manages a B & D Parlour.

I can give you the address (and maybe a discount) if you want? :p:p:p

Diana

P.S. At one point in my career, working for a special project of the Dept of Health, I got to teach some of the mistresses how to do their "art" in the correct sterile way. :angel::angel: The place would make your hair stand on end! ENUF SAID!

[Tango51]

Don't have to they are already out there - although I do have a friend who manages a B & D Parlour.

I can give you the address (and maybe a discount) if you want? :p:p:p

Diana

P.S. At one point in my career, working for a special project of the Dept of Health, I got to teach some of the mistresses how to do their "art" in the correct sterile way. :angel::angel: The place would make your hair stand on end! ENUF SAID!

I don't imagine it was the hair they wanted standing on end .
Ahem.:wasntme:

[aloa9061]

jeaz finally caught up with the end of the thread....

Well thanks for scaring me. We just bought our first house last week,

Buying the house:

we saved, Our parents helped us out and we bought a fair way out so that we could actually afford some land.

We borrowed based on my salary and my fiance on casual basis to give us some leeway if anything went wrong.

We've done the maths and have brrowed responsibly with some equity in the purchase.

I don't want a handout or would ever assume I should get one.

What a constructive and interesting thread. Going to bed as this overworked underpaid proffessional has work in the morning.:p

[Slunnie]

Don't have to they are already out there - although I do have a friend who manages a B & D Parlour.

I can give you the address (and maybe a discount) if you want? :p:p:p

Diana

P.S. At one point in my career, working for a special project of the Dept of Health, I got to teach some of the mistresses how to do their "art" in the correct sterile way. :angel::angel: The place would make your hair stand on end! ENUF SAID!

They could come to my school and show us some of their "Art". The roller door that was installed in our new shed is a shocker. I knew we should have got a B&D roller door instead. :D

[dobbo]

They could come to my school and show us some of their "Art". The roller door that was installed in our new shed is a shocker. I knew we should have got a B&D roller door instead. :D

Simon,

You on the tech stuff, what I'm crap at.

Me on the funny stuff, what your crap at.

:D

[dobbo]

Diana

P.S. At one point in my career, working for a special project of the Dept of Health, I got to teach some of the mistresses how to do their "art" in the correct sterile way. :angel::angel: The place would make your hair stand on end! ENUF SAID!


Just out of interest how is belting someone with a cat of nine or a paddle considered art?

Also do they autoclave the whips and chains after use or something?

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Just out of interest how is belting someone with a cat of nine or a paddle considered art?

Also do they autoclave the whips and chains after use or something?
Dobbo

It all depends on the particular fantasy the client desires - some of the fetishes are very medical, like being catheterised, or enemas etc. etc. Yes when there is what we in hospitals term invasive procedures, they are required to use disposable single use items (and discard them) or re-useable items which must be sterilised the same as they would be in hospital. Linen must be laundered, I believe that the leather items are the most difficult to clean, but they do get dubbin etc. The same sort of regulations as now operate for acupuncturists and tattoo parlours.

At least one of the bondage parlours in Sydney has a "clinical room" that would be envied by many doctors surgeries.

This is not helping those with mortgage problems though!

[stevo68]

This is not helping those with mortgage problems though! No, maybe not but I have exhausted myself on that topic, us men only have so many words we can use in one day :D, but this is an interesting topic:),

Regards

Stevo

[spudboy]

Here's a relevant article from today's ABC online news:

Home buyers 'must share blame' for rates rise

Posted 2 hours 8 minutes ago
The peak body representing Australia's town planners says home buyers have to accept some responsibility for the housing affordability crisis and rising interest rates.

The Reserve Bank yesterday lifted official interest rates to 7.25 per cent.
Dyan Currie from the Planning Institute of Australia says while homeowners are blaming the Government, builders and banks, the public is also to blame.

She says first home buyers want more than they can afford and are borrowing heavily.

"I don't honestly know how people can go in on their first home [with a] $300,000, $400,000, $500,000 mortgage just because they believe they have to have a completely finished house, entirely furnished," he said.

"If we are going to share the blame around I think the community should wear some of it."

[dullbird]

what about the ones on a 100% mortgage they would be at the 300,000 mark easily as you would be lucky to get one not much cheaper than that around here........but then I suppose some should just save for a deposit

Although we morgarged to a similar amount but we put down a touch over 100,000 deposit........and we have not got a big house we don't have anything flashy it doesn't have a garage or anything...

I think houses are very expensive in and around Sydney we were going to move to brissy originally but ian got a job transfer here to we had to go to were the work is.......we will end up in QLD one day that's for

[dobbo]

snip.........
She says first home buyers want more than they can afford and are borrowing heavily.

"I don't honestly know how people can go in on their first home [with a] $300,000, $400,000, $500,000 mortgage just because they believe they have to have a completely finished house, entirely furnished," he said.

"If we are going to share the blame around I think the community should wear some of it."

Who in their right mind would get into debt that much on their first home? They must not have a life. The only people I know who managed to do this successfully are my old Thai neighbours, they paid the house off in 4 yrs. How they did they do it? Simple, they unofficially had 18 adults all up living in the 4 bedroom house, they slept in the lounge, the dining area, the bedrooms everywhere. All except the elderly worked a rotating roster down their family restaraunt. When the house was paid off they bought another, and two new relo's emigrated over here. The spiral into home ownership continued.

It was a nice house, but I could and would not do that.

As for the furnishings, they don't make them like they used to, what happens in 4yrs time, usually two days after the warrantee expires when it all breaks down?

When we moved out together we got 2nd hand stuff, beanbags etc... We had the basics.

A family friend even gave us some canned food. The 40 tins turned out to be ex army rations surplus from the Vietnam war, (sorry REMLR boys they went a long time ago) they even came with a FRED. The cat and myself enjoyed but she who rides a horse refused to dine on these gourmet dishes.

[vnx205]

Here's a relevant article from today's ABC online news:

Home buyers 'must share blame' for rates rise

...........
............
.............

"If we are going to share the blame around I think the community should wear some of it."

I think that is an important point and a point that so easily gets lost.

Someone is supposed to have once said, "For every complex problem there is a simple answer - and it is always wrong".
Personally I blame 60 Minutes and similar programs which grossly oversimplify (and over dramatise) most issues. They encourage the notion that there is one cause or one reason or one answer or one person to blame.

A few months ago when the issue was aired on this forum, I seem to remember that even us unsophisticated LR owners could identify a dozen or more factors that are contributing to the housing and rental stress that some people are undoubtedly suffering. I imagine there are probably a dozen more other causes of which we are unaware.

It is just as wrong to think the problem only exists because of greedy Generation X or Baby Boomer home buyers as it is to think it's all the guvamint's fault.

Some of us might have appeared to have been guilty of subscribing to that same blinkered view that the crisis is entirely due to one factor. However I like to think there is another explanation.

I like to believe that we are reasonably aware if just how complex the problem is, and the fact that we only mention or highlight one aspect of the problem in our posts is because we think it might be a factor that others have not considered or have not given sufficient consideration.
Or it might be that we have more important things to do with our time than type out a long winded analysis of what we know is a difficult, complex problem.

If there really was a simple solution, someone would have found it and applied it by now.

PS. Sorry to drag the conversation away from the fascinating topic of bedpans, invasive procedures and sado-masochistic activities.

[dobbo]

If there really was a simple solution, someone would have found it and applied it by now.


There is,

Don't be greedy
Do not live beyond your means
Have enough assets to bail yourself out of **** quickly
Do without unnecessary crap, like plasma's LCD's etc
Have at least one luxury item, to make life enjoyable
Aim low, achieve your goal then and only then up the anti to the next stage.


You don't have to be smart to see it, I won't die rich, but I'll die with assets and have a bloody good time whilst I'm here.

[CraigE]

All easy to say, but look at the price of basic housing in some areas now. In Esperance for example you get nothing really liveable under $350k. Housing in Australia is over priced to buggery.
:mad:

[vnx205]

All easy to say, but look at the price of basic housing in some areas now. In Esperance for example you get nothing really liveable under $350k. Housing in Australia is over priced to buggery.
:mad:
That is one of several reasons why there is no simple answer.
What works for one person in one situation might not be appropriate for another.
It's all very well for someone to say, " Well move to somewhere where houses are cheaper", but there could be a dozen reason why for some people that is not an option.

[dobbo]

All easy to say, but look at the price of basic housing in some areas now. In Esperance for example you get nothing really liveable under $350k. Housing in Australia is over priced to buggery.
:mad:

For ease of commuting, ie saving 2.5hrs each way, I want to live on the Nth shore or Eastern suburbs of Sydney, I can't afford to

I don't.;)

[vnx205]

There is,
Don't be greedy
Do not live beyond your means
Have enough assets to bail yourself out of **** quickly
Do without unnecessary crap, like plasma's LCD's etc
Have at least one luxury item, to make life enjoyable
Aim low, achieve your goal then and only then up the anti to the next stage.
You don't have to be smart to see it, I won't die rich, but I'll die with assets and have a bloody good time whilst I'm here.

Fair enough. You have found an answer to the problem that works for you. Of course that is what we all should be doing, finding a solution that suits us.

That is a solution to your individual problem. What I meant is there is no simple, single answer to the broader problem.

[dobbo]

Fair enough. You have found an answer to the problem that works for you. Of course that is what we all should be doing, finding a solution that suits us.

That is a solution to your individual problem. What I meant is there is no simple, single answer to the broader problem.


Two more solutions for you


Who in their right mind would get into debt that much on their first home? They must not have a life. The only people I know who managed to do this successfully are my old Thai neighbours, they paid the house off in 4 yrs. How they did they do it? Simple, they unofficially had 18 adults all up living in the 4 bedroom house, they slept in the lounge, the dining area, the bedrooms everywhere. All except the elderly worked a rotating roster down their family restaraunt. When the house was paid off they bought another, and two new relo's emigrated over here. The spiral into home ownership continued.

It was a nice house, but I could and would not do that.



And from another thread




The best advice I can give... Go where the money is high and the cost of living is less....

[vnx205]

As I said, different people need or find different solutions.

[BigJon]

I agree, I just don't think the the solution should always be government based, which is what the original post was about (two hundred and something posts ago).

[jmkoffice]

I think the biggest problem with housing these days is people wanting to move out of home and immediately get a house in a good area and want to furnish it and buy a new car and have whatever else that their Mum and Dad took 20 years or more to accumulate.

We are paying off our townhouse and are almost finished in 7 years. We don't drink or smoke which helps. Three years of that I was at uni and earning bugger all too.

People seem to prefer to put all their money into renting a flash place when they could be paying off their own modest place.
Absolutely spot-on!

To further your comments, many of those who don't spend their wages on a mortgage or high rent, due to sharing accommodation etc, have spending money to burn. This spending is what the Reserve Bank is trying to kurb via interest rate rises.

Unfortunately, the rate rises are affecting the wrong people so the spending will continue. This is not going to be an easy time, other measures will have to put in place, I don't know what these will be.

[EchiDna]

What is the average wage in the big mining centres? $100k? more? so if a house is roughly 5-6 times the annual wage, a halfway decent house should be at least 70% of this figure, or about $400k in these areas - otherwise the poor bugger building it is getting ripped off relative to the local market.

Dobbo has it spot on if you ask me - live within your means and there will be no problem. My wife and I for example are looking to buy a small two bedroom place in inner suburban melbourne within 12 months - why? because it will enable us to live (relatively) cheaply with short public transport commute times and less income tied into depreciating assets like cars. plus access to good, cheap education and (relatively) high earning professional jobs you can't obtain in country areas. We would still have complete access to our family property in the bush on the weekends (an hour or so away), so being shut into the city will not be a huge problem...

can't win em all though!!

[inside]

Who in their right mind would get into debt that much on their first home? They must not have a life.
Me. In Brisbane 300K does not get you much. In hindsight it was the right decision as our place has increased significantly in value over the last two years.

Oh, I have a new Land Rover, a big TV and I just put in a new kitchen. Plus my wife is leaving work soon as we have a baby on the way. I guess I'm the type of person that people blame for the interest rate rises? To me though I'm not too worried. I work hard for my money and I will spend it how I like. When rates get to 12% I'll start to get concerned. Although had I bought a 4-500K house like the bank wanted us to I would be very worried now.

[solmanic]

Unfortunately, the rate rises are affecting the wrong people so the spending will continue. This is not going to be an easy time, other measures will have to put in place, I don't know what these will be.

Unfortunately, and people will probably flame me off the thread for this, but the government should be simply jacking-up the tax on fuel. It's the single most effective way of curbing discretionary spending as that will elevate the price of most goods and services overnight.

Fuel here is too cheap by far. We should by rights be charged maybe $2.50/l. This would have the double effect of reducing non-essential travel and raising the price of most things to slow the economy. The fuel tax level can be directly controlled by the government to keep inflation under control without the RBA having to simply resort to interest rate rises for the same effect.

The additional revenue from increased fuel tax is then available for spending on national infrastructure, but at a level that would not, in itself, counter-stimulate the economy which we are trying to slow down OR could be put towards a more effective and substantial first-home buyers' rebate.

We have a Prime Minister with 70% approval rating and a government with 60%+ approval. They are in a position to use this popularity to dish out some tough love to the country. It is early enough in their term that if they have the balls to do it and things smooth out in a couple of years, then they could still win re-election.

[Tango51]

Unfortunately, and people will probably flame me off the thread for this, but the government should be simply jacking-up the tax on fuel. It's the single most effective way of curbing discretionary spending as that will elevate the price of most goods and services overnight.

Fuel here is too cheap by far. We should by rights be charged maybe $2.50/l. This would have the double effect of reducing non-essential travel and raising the price of most things to slow the economy. The fuel tax level can be directly controlled by the government to keep inflation under control without the RBA having to simply resort to interest rate rises for the same effect.

The additional revenue from increased fuel tax is then available for spending on national infrastructure, but at a level that would not, in itself, counter-stimulate the economy which we are trying to slow down OR could be put towards a more effective and substantial first-home buyers' rebate.

We have a Prime Minister with 70% approval rating and a government with 60%+ approval. They are in a position to use this popularity to dish out some tough love to the country. It is early enough in their term that if they have the balls to do it and things smooth out in a couple of years, then they could still win re-election.

Right or wrong, solmanic, you are a rare bird to be thinking of the well being of us all and not just your own interests.
For that alone, kudos.
That's something most politicians don't do, and if they do they soon stop.

[Tango51]

Oh bugger, you own a trillion in oil stocks don't you???
I'm such a naive romantic sometimes I could kick myself....

[Captain_Rightfoot]

In the old days could also increase the Statutory Reserve Deposit (SRD) ratio. That meant that if you gave the bank $100 they could loan out say 90% or $90. They could change that which would take money out of the economy without increasing interest rates. However I think when they de-regulated it they lost the ability to do that.

[Reads90]

Me. In Brisbane 300K does not get you much. In hindsight it was the right decision as our place has increased significantly in value over the last two years.

Oh, I have a new Land Rover, a big TV and I just put in a new kitchen. Plus my wife is leaving work soon as we have a baby on the way. I guess I'm the type of person that people blame for the interest rate rises? To me though I'm not too worried. I work hard for my money and I will spend it how I like. When rates get to 12% I'll start to get concerned. Although had I bought a 4-500K house like the bank wanted us to I would be very worried now.


I am pretty much the same as you
I got a mortage for 500k easy but we bought a house for $300,000 and done pretty much the same as you . Big Tv , redecorate and new kitchen . Two Land Rovers and a new toyota camry
And a first kid on the way in August
And I dread to think what we would be like if we bought a 500k house. :eek:

Ali