Middle pipe TD5

[5teve]

Hi Guys

remember reading a thread about middle box replacement with just a pipe on a td5 DII,

for you guys that did it in WA, where did you get it done and how much? i have been quoted around $250 but that was in stainless with flanges included. Did you reuse your flanges and was it also stainless as i seem to remember $50 - $80 figures floating around.. seems a bit cheap compared to mine :)

Thanks

Steve

[spudboy]

I got mine done for $80 but in mild steel only. It is a direct replacement for the original muffler, so that I can go back to stock in 1/2 an hour or so. Stainless is a good idea.

[BradM]

Vortex High Performance Exhausts (http://www.vortexexhausts.com.au/products.html)

Works like it claims, I have one on my TD5. Much better than a straight piece of pipe. I got the origional fuel economy back after fitting the muffler as I had TombRaiders ECU remap done and it returned to 10l 100klms. I might add it was on TR's reccomendation. :)

BradM

[McDisco]

Vortex High Performance Exhausts (http://www.vortexexhausts.com.au/products.html)

Works like it claims, I have one on my TD5. Much better than a straight piece of pipe. I got the origional fuel economy back after fitting the muffler as I had TombRaiders ECU remap done and it returned to 10l 100klms. I might add it was on TR's reccomendation. :)

BradM

Yeah but how much did it cost?! Are the improvement gains worth the cost?

It would seem a straight through would be much cheaper...

Angus

[5teve]

thanks guys... i actually gained economy it being an auto and working less hard, im just doing it to make the engine breathe a bit better.. i figured if i could get one knocked up for 50-80 bucks it would be ok, stainless may be looking a bit more, but im wondering if i could get one knocked up (or a couple) if i draw it... just need to find someone that does stainless pipe round here.. i know where i can get the flanges made as long as they are flat plate... need to have a look..

vortex looks interesting but i wanted a cheapish mod as the rest of them will be costing the earth... maybe as a replacement for the rear box.. but as the middle apparently isnt needed.. well a pipe seemed to be the go...

Thanks guys

Steve

[spudboy]

Your local muffler shop will have a pile of pre-cut flanges ready to go for just a few dollars. I wouldn't think it's worth fabricating them up yourself, unless you like doing that sort of thing for fun.

The guys who did mine made it on the spot in about 45 minutes, doing a couple of small bends in their special machine and 5 minutes of welding.

[LandyAndy]

Hi Steve
Ive asked a few muffler shops,basically not interested.
When I get to Rovacraft for the Nanocom Im going to see Stuart about a bulk order like the Nanocom deal.The straight thru centre pipes are available for all diesel Landies in the UK from the suppliers Rovacraft use.
Im guessing if they are reasonably priced a bunch of us will grab them.
Andrew

[5teve]

thank andy, im thinking if i can get it right (ie its an easy pipe) then i can get our laser cutters to knock the flanges up in stainless (as i think the exhaust is stainless anyway) and if i can get some pipe (which we use at work) i can knock some up as we have tig and mig gear at work also.. shouldnt be too hard to do...

i'll have a look under it shortly...

Thanks

Steve

[LandyAndy]

Looked at doing my own,you can get the flanges off the shelf.
Its the 2 bends that is the hard bit,unfortunately the muffler has offset ends so atleast 2 bends are required to line the ends up.
Dosnt need to be stainless,normal exhaust pipe is OK.
If you do pull yours off and get a pipe bent Im interested in one,can do the flanges myself.
Andrew

[Slunnie]

When I had mine done ($70) they just cut the box out and replaced it with some pipe. They didn't go so far as the flanges. The disco is in Sydney at the moment, but they might have also put another hanging bracket on it, but I cant recall.

[MickG]

Vortex High Performance Exhausts (http://www.vortexexhausts.com.au/products.html)

Works like it claims, I have one on my TD5. Much better than a straight piece of pipe. I got the origional fuel economy back after fitting the muffler as I had TombRaiders ECU remap done and it returned to 10l 100klms. I might add it was on TR's reccomendation. :)

BradM

This system has been in the back of my mind for a couple of years now but I'm still trying to convince myself that it is a worthwhile mod given the price v gain. Is it really that good and worth the $1000 odd from back of turbo out?

Also, why is stainless better than mild steel........better flow rate, less friction?

Sorry to highjack and to add to the post, my muffler removal cost me $50.

Aye, Mick

[BradM]

Yeah but how much did it cost?! Are the improvement gains worth the cost?

It would seem a straight through would be much cheaper...

Angus

Definitely, I bought the Zinc Aneal (Mild Steel) Medium - 25 inch for $288.50 off the website and includes postage. Fitting in Karratha was a drama as I had to use a more expensive fitter then you would be able to get.

The difference was 2 litres a 100 klms. 2 X $1.65 a litre up this way= $2.40 a hundred k's not to mention the bit extra ferformance. I have done 15,000 klms since fitted. ROI = I year for me.

Combine it with TombRaiders remap, EGR removal and adjust wastegate fully closed with engine off and you have one sweet TD5 setup running good economy and keeping reliability.

I would do it all again :D

BradM

[Slunnie]

Brad, with your setup... just to confirm, are the only exhaust mods to have removed the centre muffler and replace it with a 25" 2.5" Vortex?

[BradM]

Correct

Brad and I spoke several times about what to do for best results...

He gave my advice a go and is reaping the rewards
__________________
Cheers Tombie!

And excellent advice it was Mike :D

Just the centre muffler, I even left the cat converter in but I must get rid of it one day.

BradM

[MickG]

adjust wastegate fully closed with engine off

Can you explain this one to me in more detail please and thanks for the tip of simply fitting the muffler.....had not even considered this.


Whoa, Mick... Dont look at Tiapan Kits... Just buy the muffler and get the local shop to fit it...

I hear you tombraider, so with my non flashable hard wired BD ECU upgrade I have, would I need to tweak it with then new muffler or can I just leave it? Assuming fitting the newer muffler will affect the ECU settings, I would be cautious as my options are limited with the ECU unless I buy a flashable one, but then that's a whole lot more money:eek:

While i'm asking questions, I don;t think mine has a cat but as I am not clued up on this subject what's the go with or without. Mine is a '99 TD5 manual D2?

Cheers for the tips and advice, Mick

[BradM]

I fitted the muffler after the ECU Chip (remap) It just enhances it.

I cannot speak highly enough of mike's mapping combined with the few easy mod's that he put me onto.

30 - 40 % more power with the same factory fuel economy. Unless I had seen and felt it with my own eyes and senses I would have been a knocker and said " NOT POSSIBLE", but it is.

The Vortex muffler is just one part of it and I believe it is well worth the money. It alone like the EGR removal will not rock your life but put them all together with the remap and one thing becomes quite apparent.

I have to keep one eye on the tacho when I floor the pedal.

I have my wastegate wound up tight closed with the motor off. I have found this delivers higher boost through the rev range giving better response on my TD5. l have had it this way for almost 1 year now with no problems but like all mods to your TD5 it is at "your risk".

BradM

[MickG]

I fitted the muffler after the ECU Chip (remap) It just enhances it.

I cannot speak highly enough of mike's mapping combined with the few easy mod's that he put me onto.

30 - 40 % more power with the same factory fuel economy. Unless I had seen and felt it with my own eyes and senses I would have been a knocker and said " NOT POSSIBLE", but it is.

The Vortex muffler is just one part of it and I believe it is well worth the money. It alone like the EGR removal will not rock your life but put them all together with the remap and one thing becomes quite apparent.

I have to keep one eye on the tacho when I floor the pedal.

I have my wastegate wound up tight closed with the motor off. I have found this delivers higher boost through the rev range giving better response on my TD5. l have had it this way for almost 1 year now with no problems but like all mods to your TD5 it is at "your risk".

BradM

Thanks Brad

Sounds good, as I have the chip and EGR removal kit already fitted, I will see how I go with the muffler. Longer term plan is to find a flashable ECU and get tombraider to do his majic on it:D Then perhaps larger intercooler etc etc etc.....never ends eh:D

Thanks for the help and info, Mick

[BradM]

No worries...I balk at the bigger Intercooler, the TD5 has enough for me now.

The GQ TB42 Pootroool however is in for the fright of it's life but that's another world. :twisted:

BradM

[feraldisco]

excuse my ignorance, but my D2 Td5 exhaust pipe is 60mil diam which equates to 2.36 inches - is it actually 2.25 or 2.5 inches so that I make sure I'm ordering the right thing?

[feraldisco]

The 'Instructions' part of the Vortex website are interesting:
<LI class=style11>Extraordinarily high rev count may be experienced after fitment of the VORTEX. This is quite normal, simply because the VORTEX muffler changes the way the engine performs. In this event, battery should be disconnected for a short period and then reconnected. Alternatively, vehicle may be driven for 50–100 kilometres while the computer re-adjusts to accommodate the VORTEX.

Vehicles that have been equipped with mappable ECU’s will require software upgrade in order to recognise changes introduced by the VORTEX muffler. Alternatively, the mappable ECU may be replaced with a learnable ECU.Hard to believe that a muffler can make this much difference. Based on Brad's experience, I assume you can get away with fitting the muffler without any ECU adjustment?

[Slunnie]

How does the noise level vary from using the standard middle box?

[Slunnie]

Getting old Slunnie :p

Its very nice, has a more "Boxer Engine" sound but with balls on a Defender without a rear resonator...

Nice and smooth on the Discos
Who have you been talking to! :D


but yep. :(

[MickG]

The ECU in the TD5 has enough scope and is capable of adjusting for the improvements. Even the non flashable ECU's?

[5teve]

pretty sure all ECU's are learning regardless of flashability. i think the only difference is the chip used, one is writable the other not...

Thanks

Steve

[MickG]

Yes :D I have a spare minute or 2 today Mick, I'll answer your PM after lunch...

Thanks for that and hear from you soon, Mick

[MickG]

Just had a reply back via e-mail from an exhaust shop on the Gold Coast that supplies the Vortex mufflers and full exhaust systems;

"HI Mick,

There would be no point just fitting a 2.5" Muffler as you will not get the EGT drop needed to make the power you are chasing."

Not questioning Tombraider's advice here, simply trying to research, but Brad, did you get the chip done at the same time as fitting the Vortex muffler or did you do this on it's own. Trying to establish if you noticed an improvement from simply adding the muffler or if the imrpovement was a combination of everything you had fitted at once. The exhaust shop has refused to simply fit the muffler on it's own:eek:

Also while I have you, when my muffler and resonator was removed some years ago, I had a new mild steel section welded on at the back to fit around my rear bar. This was not mandrel bent but simply tube bent (not sure that's the correct term) which actually reduces to around 2" at a guess on about 2-3 bends at the end of the exhaust.....would this cause any significant issues over being mandrel bent?

Cheers, Mick

[feraldisco]

G'day Mick - has the exhaust shop actually seen the exhaust system on a S2 Disco? The pipework is pretty direct and large diameter as standard (not to mention being stainless). It's at least 2.5 inches diameter and the early Td5s don't even have a catalytic converter. So I think it's a nonsense for them to suggest that muffler replacement alone won't achieve anything if that's the most restrictive point. Removing the muffler altogether definitely has an effect on initial turbo spool-up and the Vortex muffler is apparently better than a straight-through pipe... Go to a different exhaust place that isn't in to upselling...

Cheers

Q

[Ruslan]

Just had a reply back via e-mail from an exhaust shop on the Gold Coast that supplies the Vortex mufflers and full exhaust systems;

"HI Mick,

There would be no point just fitting a 2.5" Muffler as you will not get the EGT drop needed to make the power you are chasing."
Hi Mick,

I had straight-through pipe fitted before Tombraider's upgrade and I tell you it is definately better than std. muffler and turbo starts earlier. The bloke in exhaust shop warned it is going to be very noisy setup and waster money, but 30 minutes later when he finished his job and I turned the ignition key, he changed his opinion.

The Vortex on my "to do" list.

[MickG]

Yep thanks guys, have spoken again with tombraider and will look to fit the vortex muffler soon at another exhaust shop. Will report back once complete:D

Thanks for the input, Mick