12v glowplugs

[Dougal]

So who with a 4BD1 has the glowplugs working?

My engine is 24v and to solve the headache of hooking them up, they've never been hooked up. But I think for those times when the batteries are down it'd be worthwhile.
Will 12v on 24v glowplugs do anything useful or do I need to find some 12v ones?

While I have 24v starting, wiring up the series/parrallel switch to the glowplugs would be a nightmare.

[Bush65]

I also have 24V glow plugs, but haven't wired them up, so can't help.

[Blknight.aus]

urmmmm.. Ive never used the glow plugs in the intended way on a suzi..... if the battery wont crank it over enough to get it to start the odds are its not going to have the guts to work the glowplugs enough to get them heated up and then crank the engine over enough to start.


They do make for an excellent load test against the batteries tho.

to give you an idea of just how important they are in the grand scheme of getting your rover to start we look after about 50 landrovers with suzi engines we hold 1 glow plug.

the cost of getting you glow plugs up will get you a second battery, a set of jumper cables and a primative regulator to charge it.

[justinc]

Glow plugs?:eek:

I don't believe I even bothered to hook them up!

Even in minus temps the ole girl'l fire up just fine and dandy!(Now approaching 500,000km)


Love these direct injection engines!:D:D

JC

[Dougal]

urmmmm.. Ive never used the glow plugs in the intended way on a suzi..... if the battery wont crank it over enough to get it to start the odds are its not going to have the guts to work the glowplugs enough to get them heated up and then crank the engine over enough to start.


They do make for an excellent load test against the batteries tho.

to give you an idea of just how important they are in the grand scheme of getting your rover to start we look after about 50 landrovers with suzi engines we hold 1 glow plug.

the cost of getting you glow plugs up will get you a second battery, a set of jumper cables and a primative regulator to charge it.

One of my main reasons is reducing smoke at startup. I run the excess fuel as light as I can, but it still blows a decent puff of black straight into my garage.

I'm running a direct drive starter for chassis clearance and 2 NS70 batteries (24v starting). They crank fine normally, but in situations where it's been sitting and something has been sucking on the battery it gets slow enough to make me nervous.
I think my battery charger has been acting up lately too. Enough that I almost bought some new batteries.

How many amps do a set of plugs suck?

[justinc]

One of my main reasons is reducing smoke at startup. I run the excess fuel as light as I can, but it still blows a decent puff of black straight into my garage.

I'm running a direct drive starter for chassis clearance and 2 NS70 batteries (24v starting). They crank fine normally, but in situations where it's been sitting and something has been sucking on the battery it gets slow enough to make me nervous.
I think my battery charger has been acting up lately too. Enough that I almost bought some new batteries.

How many amps do a set of plugs suck?

Hi Dougal,
I would also suspect the starter and decent earths, as the speed of cranking can have an effect on the amount of smoke at startup. These have a habit apparently of going through solenoid contacts and brushes if the earths are not up to scratch, even more so with a direct drive starter. The glow circuit should draw around 60 to 70 amps.


JC

[rovercare]

So who with a 4BD1 has the glowplugs working?

My engine is 24v and to solve the headache of hooking them up, they've never been hooked up. But I think for those times when the batteries are down it'd be worthwhile.
Will 12v on 24v glowplugs do anything useful or do I need to find some 12v ones?

While I have 24v starting, wiring up the series/parrallel switch to the glowplugs would be a nightmare.


Wouldn;ts you just take the 24V supply from the starter motor and put in a solenoid with a 12V coil? not much of a headache for a bloke with CAD drawings of his Rangie:D

Oh, my glow plugs don't work either;) -temps it starts with a rough idle with a little to much cranking, but a little idel up on the peddle for a sec clears that straight up

[Dougal]

Hi Dougal,
I would also suspect the starter and decent earths, as the speed of cranking can have an effect on the amount of smoke at startup. These have a habit apparently of going through solenoid contacts and brushes if the earths are not up to scratch, even more so with a direct drive starter. The glow circuit should draw around 60 to 70 amps.


JC

I know my starter connections are good and I last cleaned the starter 5000km ago. I am using a direct drive starter which draws a lot of current. I've measured over 500amps when it was gummed up. Around 300amps when it's clean.

Basically if the batteries are topped up (just off the trickle charger) then it starts second cylinder from dead cold.
If it's sat for a week or two then it's "whir, whir, whir, romm". The longer time to crank results in more fuel and more smoke.
That's one of the situations where if I had glow plugs I'd use them.

[Dougal]

Wouldn;ts you just take the 24V supply from the starter motor and put in a solenoid with a 12V coil? not much of a headache for a bloke with CAD drawings of his Rangie:D

Oh, my glow plugs don't work either;) -temps it starts with a rough idle with a little to much cranking, but a little idel up on the peddle for a sec clears that straight up

The current setup has 12v to the starter live wire until the key is turned.
The key triggers the solenoids in the 12/24v switch which switches both batteries from parrallel to series. Giving the starter 24v and tripping the starter solenoid.

So to get 24v to just the plugs would mean putting in a switch to isolate the starter solenoid and switch the plugs on. Prob another switch so the plugs don't run every time the starter goes.
A three position switch, plugs off, plugs with starter, plugs on without starter.

So yeah I guess it's acheivable, but 12v plugs would be soo much easier.

[rovercare]

The current setup has 12v to the starter live wire until the key is turned.
The key triggers the solenoids in the 12/24v switch which switches both batteries from parrallel to series. Giving the starter 24v and tripping the starter solenoid.

So to get 24v to just the plugs would mean putting in a switch to isolate the starter solenoid and switch the plugs on. Prob another switch so the plugs don't run every time the starter goes.
A three position switch, plugs off, plugs with starter, plugs on without starter.

So yeah I guess it's acheivable, but 12v plugs would be soo much easier.

Mmmm, that's a stoopid setup:eek:

Usually 24V jap stuff runs elec system in 24v and an invertor for the 12v, so you dont draw the accessories of one battery alone, but yours 24vs to crank then runs the accessories of both batteris, mmmmm, stoopid 24V sytems:mad:

[Dougal]

Mmmm, that's a stoopid setup:eek:

Usually 24V jap stuff runs elec system in 24v and an invertor for the 12v, so you dont draw the accessories of one battery alone, but yours 24vs to crank then runs the accessories of both batteris, mmmmm, stoopid 24V sytems:mad:

According to a bus-mechanic mate it's very common. It lets you run the whole vehicle (incl charge system) on 12v with both batteries in parrallel. Only switching to 24v for starting while not blowing up the rest of the vehicle.

[rovercare]

According to a bus-mechanic mate it's very common. It lets you run the whole vehicle (incl charge system) on 12v with both batteries in parrallel. Only switching to 24v for starting while not blowing up the rest of the vehicle.

May well be common in trucks and buses, I only based that on a few Patrols and small trucks I've worked on, so wouldn't say I know

May as well use a bloody 12V starter, avoids all the unnesessary switch gear

[100I]

He's already at 300a at 24V...

[rovercare]

He's already at 300a at 24V...

So my 12v starter on my izoozoo is drawing in excess of 600A then:eek::p

I could tong it at work tonight and find out;)

[Dougal]

May as well use a bloody 12V starter, avoids all the unnesessary switch gear

I think it might be a 12v starter.:D Gets off it's **** with 24v on it's tail, but would be slow and painful with 12.

Do you have a geared starter or direct drive?

[rovercare]

I think it might be a 12v starter.:D Gets off it's **** with 24v on it's tail, but would be slow and painful with 12.

That'll get it crankin':D

[Blknight.aus]

the isuzu as fitted to the landrover should have a reduction drive startermotor and on initation can draw more than 600 amps and then usually settles to about 300 or so.

the glow circut should draw between 60 and 80 amps.

some trucks have a direct drive 24v unit and internally ist basically a sereis III diesel starter motor....

when it start to give you trouble turf it and your 24v starting system and install the reduction drive starter.

[1103.9TDI]

4/6BD1/T 12v reduction starter $400 brand new off Ashcroft, just bought a spare the other day!.

[Larns]

Damn that's a good price Gerry, they are normaly around the 1500 $ mark.
I can't fathom why you would want a 24v starter??????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????

The standard gear reduction isuzu starter only draws 110amps whilst cranking, I have tested a few after rebuilding them. And I'm pretty sure they are mitsubishi starters also.
A full charged N70 gets my starter motor humming like a cheap pro on speed!!!!

:twobeers:

[isuzurover]

Back on topic - I think my glow plugs are connected - there is an orange light on the dash, but it only ever comes of for a fraction of a second - even at really cold temperatures.

[Dougal]

Damn that's a good price Gerry, they are normaly around the 1500 $ mark.
I can't fathom why you would want a 24v starter??????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????

The standard gear reduction isuzu starter only draws 110amps whilst cranking, I have tested a few after rebuilding them. And I'm pretty sure they are mitsubishi starters also.
A full charged N70 gets my starter motor humming like a cheap pro on speed!!!!

:twobeers:

Where my engine sits, there is no clearance for a geared starter. The chassis has already been notched to clear the direct drive starter that's in there (notch isn't shown, but you can see where the solenoid would foul).

http://users.actrix.co.nz/dougal.ellen/forums/starter_clearance.jpg

How many amps would a geared starter draw after 5 years of brush debris buildup at 0 deg C?

[Blknight.aus]

327.435 amps once running 656.8766 amps on inrush.

the new starters that turned up in our last batch for work included a couple that allow for dismemberment and rebuilding in about 9 or so different orientations Id be surprised if one of them didnt fit.

[Dougal]

327.435 amps once running 656.8766 amps on inrush.

the new starters that turned up in our last batch for work included a couple that allow for dismemberment and rebuilding in about 9 or so different orientations Id be surprised if one of them didnt fit.

As you can see, I've got plenty of room above, some below and not much sideways.
I've cleaned this one out around every 15,000km since I've owned it, it succumbs to brush debris. So yeah I'd like to plan for replacement.

Have you got any more details on those ones? Are they available in 24v (not yet sure if I want to drop back to 12)?
Those amps you've posted above are on 12v?

[mudmouse]

4/6BD1/T 12v reduction starter $400 brand new off Ashcroft, just bought a spare the other day!.

Doh! :wallbash:

Just paid $525 for a Nippon Denso jobbie from Metcalfe's in Brissy.

Hunted around for a while too. Ah well. Bloody Land Rovers.

[Blknight.aus]

As you can see, I've got plenty of room above, some below and not much sideways.
I've cleaned this one out around every 15,000km since I've owned it, it succumbs to brush debris. So yeah I'd like to plan for replacement.

Have you got any more details on those ones? Are they available in 24v (not yet sure if I want to drop back to 12)?
Those amps you've posted above are on 12v?

mate those really really accurate numbers were a pluck OOMA and were ment as sarcasm. The only starters Ive got eyes on are all 12v.

[Dougal]

mate those really really accurate numbers were a pluck OOMA and were ment as sarcasm. The only starters Ive got eyes on are all 12v.

Bugger, thought you'd put a clamp meter on them and embellished a little.

[rick130]

Bugger, thought you'd put a clamp meter on them and embellished a little.

so do tongs work on DC ? (I've never thought to try them......)

[Dougal]

so do tongs work on DC ? (I've never thought to try them......)

If they do, it'll be written all over them.
The AC only ones are more common and quite cheap these days. I bought one from Dick Smith about two years ago, it has helped solve a huge number of headaches.

[rovercare]

so do tongs work on DC ? (I've never thought to try them......)

Not all, the good ones do;)

[Dougal]

So, what's a set of 12v glowplugs worth?

[Bush65]

4/6BD1/T 12v reduction starter $400 brand new off Ashcroft, just bought a spare the other day!.
I need a 12V starter and would like to know contact details for where you got yours.

[1103.9TDI]

Repco Limited - Ashdown Ingram Internet site (http://www.ashdown-ingram.com.au/CA2571B7001714EB/HomePage?ReadForm&1=01-Home~&2=~&3=~)

When you phone them John, give them the impression that you're an Autolecky, or in the industry.....they'll give you the 'trade' price:D:

[rick130]

Not all, the good ones do;)

Thought so, my Kyoritsu's are AC only.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/03/259.jpg

DC is evil stuff anyway. I don't really want to know about it. :D

[rick130]

I need a 12V starter and would like to know contact details for where you got yours.

Baxters have an outlet in Newcastle John, might be worth giving them a call, too.

Baxters - The driving force in automotive (http://www.baxters.com.au)

[rovercare]

Google Image Result for http://www.thaielectrics.com/Kyoritsu/ClampMeter/img/2432.jpg (http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thaielectrics.com/Kyoritsu/ClampMeter/img/2432.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thaielectrics.com/Kyoritsu/ClampMeter/M2432.htm&h=270&w=118&sz=6&hl=en&start=3&sig2=n4NEaC33O40PK_0XtyOT7g&um=1&tbnid=zKxfZy1YLiKRsM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=49&ei=8qLlR_LWM5bEgwODjM2xAw&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dkyoritsu%2Bmini%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26 safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN)

But if you buy an AC/DC Kyoritsu it does:D

Nothing wrond with DC gear...............Just that it can be a mind ****:eek: (obviously not auto related stuff)

[rick130]

Google Image Result for http://www.thaielectrics.com/Kyoritsu/ClampMeter/img/2432.jpg (http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thaielectrics.com/Kyoritsu/ClampMeter/img/2432.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thaielectrics.com/Kyoritsu/ClampMeter/M2432.htm&h=270&w=118&sz=6&hl=en&start=3&sig2=n4NEaC33O40PK_0XtyOT7g&um=1&tbnid=zKxfZy1YLiKRsM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=49&ei=8qLlR_LWM5bEgwODjM2xAw&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dkyoritsu%2Bmini%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26 safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN)

But if you buy an AC/DC Kyoritsu it does:D


I know, they have two complete ranges of AC only and AC/DC stuff


Nothing wrond with DC gear...............Just that it can be a mind ****:eek: (obviously not auto related stuff)

Tell me about it. Used to dealing with AC, then when I cop DC controls, etc. it fries my poor little brain.....:eek:

The worst thing I ever copped was a Mitsubishi Electric air conditioner that mixes AC 240V and DC 12V on the same circuit...:eek::eek:
Both control circuits hook up to the same terminal and run together on a PC board for a few inches, then branch and go their separate ways......
I rang their tech guys and they reckon I was the first person to ever question it. Seems no one else ever looked at the control circuit diagram.

[Dougal]

Here's my one:
http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/47e5d4b4011257f2273fc0a87f3306e4/Product/View/Q1476

It's helped me solve countless electrical issues on my rangie and elsewhere. Had it four years now.
Was 3x the price for anything else that would do the same job. Sometimes it was 3x the price for ones that did less.:eek: