95 classic drive train

[def90]

HI All -

I am considering a 95 classic purchase and was wondering about the drive train strength and durability vs the earlier classics. I have had a 85 and 88 classic, the later which had the ZF 4spd auto and obviously coils all round.

As I remember, something changed at the transfer box in later classic and I am not sure what were the pros and cons... I do know lots of people run coils again after the air suspension packs it in...

Any experience or advice would be great!

Thanks
Andrew

[RichardK]

I stand to be corrected but I think the 88 transfer case is gear driven and the later ones are chain driven

[Vern]

trans case went to viscous didn't it:(

[def90]

the viscous coupling sounds familiar, and if so thats what I am interested to know more about, good and bad. Does it still have the diff lock? How is the off road performance? reliability? etc

[dungarover]

The Borg Warner VC transfer cases I've always been a bit of a critic of them but maybe there's something to be had with them. Refined, quiet, smooth and they do work well although sometimes they do have a bit of a delay to kick in which I found on Aquarangie. I changed it to a LT230 because at the time it was much cheaper to be quite honest, but at the end of the day the LT230 is still a positive diff lock and that's where it wins out.

Also the parts are getting cheaper too compared to last time I had one, can be rebuilt for about the same cost of the LT230 these days if you scorce the parts from abroad.

Trav

[RichardK]

of course...........viscous:):)

[def90]

Thanks guys, thats good stuff and pretty much as I remember.

Aqua, can you elaborate more on the mechanics of how the VC works if there is no diff lock?

Is the auto still a ZF in the 95?

I would be keen for offroading in the classic so would be interested in how the VC does perform under those circumstances..

[Lotz-A-Landies]

HI All - ...
... As I remember, something changed at the transfer box in later classic and I am not sure what were the pros and cons... I do know lots of people run coils again after the air suspension packs it in...

Any experience or advice would be great!

Thanks
Andrew
Andrew

Up to 1984 model, they all had the LT95 4 speed the same as the Stage 1 Series 3 etc. (Some people call it the Ferguson box, because of where the design came from.)

From Phase 2 the "1985 model" they had either the LT85 5 sp manual or Torqueflyte 727 auto all on the LT230. This was subsequently changed to the ZF auto on the LT230.

The Vogue SE's had the Borg Warner chain drive T/F with the viscous coupling.

As mentioned by others the LT 230 is in my opinion the better transmission although not as quiet as the BW transfer.

You can easily tell which transfer it has, the LT230 looks like the regular t/f box where the BW has the epicyclic box (hi and Lo transfer) as a big protrusion at the rear of the mainshaft. (see pic)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/03/13.jpg

Addit: The ZF 4 sp auto started in the late 1980s and continues through the D2.

The "viscous coupling" is a sealed unit which contains a thick "viscous" fluid that allows a minimal amount of variation between the front and rear outputs. As opposed to open diff design it will still drive both front and rear even it traction is completely lost on one axle. They are not a positive lock so you do lose some traction but it is idiot proof for Toorak Tractor set. It is not favoured by the 4WD enthusiast set.

Diana

[Rangier Rover]

The BW VC works on heat:oNot a CDL but similar result. They tend to wield them self in some cases. Then are hard on tyres,CVs and Fuel. Easy to replace. 30mins aprox. Lt 230 are more reliable in long term if well lubricated.But if they sh_t them self $$$:( BW VC is softer on runing gear when working as it should.

[Bradtot]

While we are on the subject of BW transfer cases here is a pic of mine (below) from my 89 auto that has done 360k. I did not make any noises and was very quiet, I suspected that after all those kilometers the chain may be stretched and it was, also the main shaft was just ready to strip. The splines in the middle of the main chain cog have a habit of wearing thin then shearing leaving you with no drive at all.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

I also had secondary clunk when I moved either the front or rear output drive flange that I was just starting to feel when I engaged drive , but could defnitley feel when moving the shafts by hand, This has turned out to be the thrust washers collapsed in the centre diff feeling as if the teeth were jumping. I had evidence of this by the amount of brass shavings attached to the pump filter pick up.(Pic 2 ) The chain had stretched so much that it was scraping the inside cover as you can see in the other pic on both the top and bottom insides.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/


So the BW is a great transfer case and I am very happy but like all things it does wear. I have been able to get a newer unit with a good chain but stuffed shaft so I have rebuilt that and fitted new shaft and refitted back into Rangie this weekend.




By the way the viscious unit itself is ok. I have 2 more of these cases and the other one I have after dismantling is in the same condition as mine
was, worn badly chain stretched case marked etc. There is a difference in the model 003 to the 005 and that is that the 005 has a thread for a temp sensor on the back case. I was lucky and got the one I have just fitted for nothing so it should see me for another 200k of quiet running.
I will also put this post in the tech section.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/


I will post some more pics later when My camera works again
sorry about pic size but at least u can zoom up for detail

Regards
Brad

[loanrangie]

Andrew

Up to 1984 model, they all had the LT95 4 speed the same as the Stage 1 Series 3 etc. (Some people call it the Ferguson box, because of where the design came from.)

From Phase 2 the "1985 model" they had either the LT85 5 sp manual or Torqueflyte 727 auto all on the LT230. This was subsequently changed to the ZF auto on the LT230.

The Vogue SE's had the Borg Warner chain drive T/F with the viscous coupling.

As mentioned by others the LT 230 is in my opinion the better transmission although not as quiet as the BW transfer.

You can easily tell which transfer it has, the LT230 looks like the regular t/f box where the BW has the epicyclic box (hi and Lo transfer) as a big protrusion at the rear of the mainshaft. (see pic)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/03/13.jpg

Addit: The ZF 4 sp auto started in the late 1980s and continues through the D2.

The "viscous coupling" is a sealed unit which contains a thick "viscous" fluid that allows a minimal amount of variation between the front and rear outputs. As opposed to open diff design it will still drive both front and rear even it traction is completely lost on one axle. They are not a positive lock so you do lose some traction but it is idiot proof for Toorak Tractor set. It is not favoured by the 4WD enthusiast set.

Diana

LT85 was in the county, RRC had LT77 5spd.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

LT85 was in the county, RRC had LT77 5spd.
Thanks Loanrangie - I was getting my years and LTs mixed up!

Diana

[dungarover]

Interesting bit of tech there Brad, they're not a bad unit and the 90 Rangie I've just aquired has 245K on it. Aquarangie had 265K on it and it nearly seized but worked okay. As I mentioned, I've always been a critic of the BW transfer but now I know a bit more about them I've become wiser and willing to give it another go :)

Trav

[adm333]

I had a 94/95 Classic for a couple of years. It performed quite well off road as it also has traction control on the rear wheels and ABS all round.

I think at times the VC had a bit of a delayed reaction but I was never really stuck because of it. Lower tyre pressure (around 24 / 25 psi) made a huge difference to off road ability.

My biggest criticism of this drive train was the downhill speed / control in low 1st. It took a while for the torque converter to grab hold and even when it did it was too fast - I called it the runaway train. My P38 is miles ahead in this regard.

Cheers
Dave

[Bradtot]

more pics of BW box notice the splines on the shaft almost non existant and the second pic of the slack in the chain

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/



Brad still happy!

[loanrangie]

more pics of BW box notice the splines on the shaft almost non existant and the second pic of the slack in the chain

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/3586/dsc00010800x600nb6.jpg



http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/9446/dsc00013800x600px6.jpg



Brad still happy!

Now if you just mount a tensioner where your finger is it, the slack would be gone.

[dungarover]

I had a 94/95 Classic for a couple of years. It performed quite well off road as it also has traction control on the rear wheels and ABS all round.

I think at times the VC had a bit of a delayed reaction but I was never really stuck because of it. Lower tyre pressure (around 24 / 25 psi) made a huge difference to off road ability.

My biggest criticism of this drive train was the downhill speed / control in low 1st. It took a while for the torque converter to grab hold and even when it did it was too fast - I called it the runaway train. My P38 is miles ahead in this regard.

Cheers
Dave

Funny you say that. I don't remember mine ever being like that, maybe because i use the handbrake so maybe I don't notice.

If you think your RRC ran on hills, try fitting a set of 33's to std gearing, it becomes a taboggan :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: 4.11's were deemed a prioroty after that.

Trav

[PhilipA]

My biggest criticism of this drive train was the downhill speed / control in low 1st. It took a while for the torque converter to grab hold and even when it did it was too fast - I called it the runaway train. My P38 is miles ahead in this regard

I agree my 3.9 92 RRC is a bit fast in low low.

However I have come to understand how it all works recently.

At 1500RPM the injectors cut off, so over that there is much better engine braking.
Do not try turning on the aircon to slow down, as that just steps up the stepper one notch!( under 1500RPM that is).
The VSS raises the idle speed once it detects the vehicle moving so that doesn't help
The other thing is that the stall speed of the TC is 1800RPM, so engine braking will again be better once 1800RPM is reached.

I do not know how the 38 is better unless the TC is locked in low ratio.
So if 1800 RPM is not too fast, then you will find better engine braking up there.
Maybe it could be improved by a disconnect switch on the VSS, but then you lose the injector cutoff.
I have found the brakes to be effective .
Regards Philip A

[adm333]

Everything you said makes sense on a steep but smooth downhill.

What I found was that on a rocky or bumpy surface you cannot let it go that fast so you spend most of the time tapping or riding the brakes.

I don't know how but the 38 in low 1st grabs hold straight away and you can feel the engine keeping you at a crawl. It feels so much more secure.

Dave