army spring hangers

[micksta323]

has any one fitted extended army spring hangers to a civilian series 3 and found that the angle of the front prop shaft joining the front diff input shaft sits at a very ugly angle? i think it may be contacting at certain times.

mick.

[LandyAndy]

YEP!!!!
The Ser3 in My shed has,only 1 real way is to make new dumb irons copying the Army style chassis,which I did.
The other method would be to get some wedges made to re-alighn the diff.
Andrew

[micksta323]

i've heard the term dumb irons before, what exactly are they?

mick.

[LandyAndy]

I dug a pic up for you.Its the 1st of the 3.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/04/650.jpg
I cut the originals off,made a new inner tube,welded the old on then plated the hangar,finished job looks factory!!!!
Other pics are cutout in engine xmember to allow extra tailshaft travel and chassis cutout to allow oil lines for remote oilfilter to suit ford cleveland V8.
Andrew

[micksta323]

not trying to sound dumb, but what exactly am i looking at? is it the front spring mount. i took the hangers of my spare car which is an army ffr, and i cannot see a difference. i think i'm blind!

mick.

[LandyAndy]

Hi Mick
Its the first pic.
Looks different as I have a custom crossmember across the front so the one that holds the steering relay could be removed to siut the ford V8,and the chassis was upside down at the time the pic was taken!!!!.
The dumb irons are the front spring hangers.
Civilian ones are very different from Army,look again at both of yours.
Andrew

[micksta323]

i've seen that the army chassis is heavily reinforced around the front spring mounts. i'm guessing that they sit lower down (extended) compared to a civillian landy. i have also fitted the longer bump stops from the ffr, but have since read that may prevent upwards suspension movement? sound correct to you?

mick.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

i've heard the term dumb irons before, what exactly are they?

mick.
Mick

I have always known the "dumb irons" to be the protrusion at the front of the chassis where the bumper bolts on in a Land Rover. However I am also lead to believe that in early days of the automobile they were the front part of the chassis that held the front of the springs.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/04/649.jpg

After doing lots of damage to other objects and people these were fitted with a cross bar for protection. Now called a bumper bar.

Diana

[micksta323]

well now i'm confused. i would have thought that the front spring mounts would just be called front spring mounts? not to ignore anyones advice, but anyone else out there have any ideas? my first thought was to change the angle of the diff mounting pads to an angle more compliant to the prop shaft angle. cheers.

mick.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

well now i'm confused. i would have thought that the front spring mounts would just be called front spring mounts? not to ignore anyones advice, but anyone else out there have any ideas? my first thought was to change the angle of the diff mounting pads to an angle more compliant to the prop shaft angle. cheers.

mick.
Unfortunately the Rover manuals (workshop and parts catalogues) are not much help with terminology of the chassis elements. Even the engineering drawings I have of the S2B "frame" only calls the parts to connect the front of the springs a "bracket" and the rest called a "side rail".

So the front "spring mounts" as you suggest are usually called "spring brackets" or "spring hangers" (as they hang the spring, which itself is a misnomer).

The rear ones on each spring are called chassis bushes and shackle plates. The bolts are all called shackle pins - even though the front ones don't go through "shackles".

The front of the chassis, I know as a "dumb iron" is only called the "front of the frame side rail" by Rover Co. Ltd. technical writers and draftsmen.

Regarding the front diff. The stage 1 Series 3 diff is rotated to a slightly different angle to the series 2a axle housings (see a recent thread wanting Maxidrive actuator plate (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/53090-where-find-maxidrive-actuator-mounting-block.html#post708363)). If you wedge the housing (or similar mod) you are likely to increase the chance of "bump-steer" as you are also rotating the swivel housings as well. The easiest option would be a Stage 1 Series 3 front axle housing if you can find one.

Also in the pic several posts above showing the cross member with the semi circular cut-out is wrong, when compared to the original spec of the military and in fact the forward control chassis (which is where the original design came from). The Cut-out is only on the front side of the cross member and angled up at 45 degrees - just to clear the prop shaft on the front edge.

Choose to ignore my information if you like.

Diana

[micksta323]

deffinately not ignoring any ones info diana, just taking it all onboard. never really thought about the swivel housings rotating as well. i think the best thing to do is to just put the standard spring hangers back on the front end. the rear seems fine. cheers all.

mick.

[UncleHo]

G'day Folks :)

The "Dumb Irons" are what are usually refered to when speaking about the front endings of a chassis, therefore, the front spring mountings on a Series Landrover, the Australian Military 2a Landrover has extended front spring hangers,along with a strengthened chassis, which was later manufactured by Landrover Coy in UK and marketed as the "1Ton Model".

To get the correct differential mounting and steering caster/camber you will have to fit those front mounts, or copies of them, if you are just looking for a raised suspension, I would suggest that you either use a military 2a chassis, or fit Parabolic Springs,(1-2 inch lift) as by just fitting the rear extended swinging shackle plates all it really does is to do part of the job, and change the steering geometry that give poor handling:(and heavy steering:(

Hope that is of some help to you ;)


cheers

[Aaron IIA]

By fitting the longer shackles to the rear of the springs and leaving the fronts original, you change the angle of the differential pinion realtive to the gearbox. This will wear out the universal joints more quickly. It will also increase the amount of castor. This will make the vehicle more want to go in a straight line, and make steering slightly harder. I would recommend that you either get a complete military chasis, or leave the spring shackles original. If you want raised suspension, fit raised springs.
On a slightly differend not, has anyone ever considered spring over axle suspension?
Aaron.

[andies landies]

Hi there,
I'm in the (very slow) process of replicating the army "dumb irons" or Front of Front spring hangers on a stage one for exactly the reason you started the thread. I'll try and get some pics up for you.

Mine had army shackles on it when I bought it and parabolic springs. The steering was very heavy at slow speed but it self centred quite well on the highway and didn't wander much. The trouble was that it had thrown the front tailshaft before I got it and a new stage one shaft only lasted about 8 months before the centre-ing device in the double cardan joint flogged out. So I had to replace the shackles with standard civvy ones.

I decided to re-make the front of the chassis cause it had a bit of rust and with the army hangers and shackles the 34" Simexes will fit a bit better (I hope).

I have noted that there is more than one length of "long" spring shackle plate getting around, up to about 1/2" difference on some that I've changed. The civilian version of the long-hanger chassis is "SIII one-ton"

Andrew

[andies landies]

Here's a couple of photos of the standard dumb iron and of the new outer plate that I copied from an army chassis. The spring will bolt through the lower hole when the job's finished.

Andrew

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Here's a couple of photos of the standard dumb iron and of the new outer plate that I copied from an army chassis. The spring will bolt through the lower hole when the job's finished.

Andrew
Andrew

That is one of the better examples of modifications for the raised spring hangers.

When I get modivated I will crop that section out of the Rover Co engineering drawings of the S2B frame and post it to the site.

(In the front spring hangers the S2B frame is almost identical to the Au Military chassis apart from the presence of only 1 set of holes for the shackle pins.)

Diana

[micksta323]

me thinks i may copy andrew. i just welded 3mm reinforment plates to the inside of the chassis rails. i did such a good job too, be a shame (as well as being hard) to cut them back off due to the amount of welds. will make a new template using my army series 3 chassis. i'd like to use it but i think it may have spent its life on the beach. does anyone know the price or availability of a new gavanised 1 ton chassis here in aus? cheers.

mick.

[andies landies]

The hardest bit so far was making up dies to press the aprox. 1/8" outward step into the 5mm plate (army ones measure at about 4mm thick but it's not an easy gauge to buy). I milled up two lumps of steel and chucked it into the 100 ton press. I'm cheating on the two inside plates, I'll just use a thicker spacer to locate the spring out to it's correct position.

Andrew

[Lotz-A-Landies]

me thinks i may copy andrew. i just welded 3mm reinforment plates to the inside of the chassis rails. i did such a good job too, be a shame (as well as being hard) to cut them back off due to the amount of welds. will make a new template using my army series 3 chassis. i'd like to use it but i think it may have spent its life on the beach. does anyone know the price or availability of a new gavanised 1 ton chassis here in aus? cheers.

mick.
Mick getting replacement chassis in Australia is a bit of a problem, mainly because the registration authorities maintain that the vehicle ID is the number stamped into the chassis and therefore a new chassis becomes a new vehicle. No one manufactures replacement chassis comercially in Oz.

Richards Chassis in the U.K. advertise a replacement 6 cyl 1 Ton chassis (http://www.richardschassis.co.uk/series3.htm)at £1,440 UK ($A3,076.00) before shipping. You can double the purchase price for the shipping.

Another issue is that the 1 Ton model was never sold in Oz and the only one known to arrive was a LHD prototype which arrived in 1973. It would be a case of having to have a standard 109" chassis number stamped into a 1 Ton chassis - something that Richards may be unwilling to do.

Diana

[clubagreenie]

I know this is way old but i've been extending front and rear suspension hangers and swing plates for years. Just duplicating the pattern of the chassis plates from an original ex army chassis. As long as the chassis and swing plates are both entended the same amount and the fixed hangers new bolt hole is placed back slightly back to maintain the swing plates original angle. Same for the rear springs.

[NiteMare]

if this question is being posed (original posters question) regarding using 1ton shackles on a swb chassis, may i suggest that he uses standard 109 shackles instead, they are only 1/2" longer than the swb shackles which will be lots easier on the u.j.'s...

i intend doing this as i have a pair of tired parabolics on the front which makes my truck sit "nose down" and this trick should bring it back to close to level, i've a couple of friends that have already done this and not run into any u.j. problems yet