Help Need Dimensions

[TwoUp]

Can anyone help, I require the weight of a tdi300 motor and the front and rear axle ratings for a Range Rover?:o

I have a project commencing and have hit a few hurdles. These dimensions will help me convince the powers that be that a 110 that has 20kg less carrying capacity than a Range Rover (as per info at hand now and hence the request) may be able to accept a motor similar to that is allowable for a Range Rover?;)

I have two motors contending for my vehicle, a 6.5 Chev (no blower) and a Detroit 3-53 two cycle (with attitude):twisted::twisted::twisted:

Am in the swings and roundabout stage at the moment so any help will be appreciated.

Regards,
PeterW

[langy]

According to the HS 2.8 website, it's clone of the 300tdi is 205kg. According to rave, 1995/6/7 axles (Disco & RRC) are rated at 1100 front, 1500 rear, and diesel versions (Although I don't know why ..) are rated at 1200 front, 1600 rear.

I've been reading about the 5-53 a little, have you got a photo of one of them?

There are a number of people who have put 6.5 chev's into their rangies ( 6.5rangie ...), but if you are contemplating a diesel, I read where somebody in the UK put one into a 101 ( bolt in kit) and found it good except it developed it's power at lower revs than the LR v8. Good excuse to fit 33 or 35 inch tyres to your 110

[TwoUp]

Thanks Langy,
I have just received a 53 series manual from the states and am yet to open it. I will look for pictures for you and probably scan and reply with same here.

I am going to change the gearing in the transfer case that will drop 600 revs in high range only, on advice from engineer here.

I want the vehicle to look almost standard save from sill tanks and 135ltr at the rear. I have OME suspension and am happy although I may have to increase the front by about 20% according to engineer. Have ARB lockers and axle upgrade etc.

Regards,
PeterW

[Lotz-A-Landies]

... I read where somebody in the UK put one into a 101 ( bolt in kit) and found it good except it developed it's power at lower revs than the LR v8. Good excuse to fit 33 or 35 inch tyres.
Langy

Just an aside, It's a bit of a waste fitting 33" or even 35" inch tyres when the 101" has almost 36" tyres as standard spec.

Do you know anyone making 37" tyres??? :angel:

Diana

[p38arover]

These dimensions will help me convince the powers that be that a 110 that has 20kg less carrying capacity than a Range Rover (

Less or more? Less is not as good.

[Bigbjorn]

Have you told them that 110's came with an Isuzu 4BD1 that weighs 325kgs fan to flywheel (no clutch) dry? The all iron 3-53 is 454 kgs and the aluminium version is almost certainly lighter than a 4BD1.

[TwoUp]

The Defender is rated (per info at hand) at 3050 and the Rangie at 3070? I would have thought the Defender being a more trade/ utility type of vehicle, should have the Maximum Permitted Laden Weight for Vehicle (Rover Group Ltd) greater than the R/Rover.

Regards,
PeterW

[TwoUp]

No I have not Brian and G'day. Be certain that I will within minutes!! Thanks for that. I have not any more than the Alloy motor weighs about the same as a hemmi slant engine from Prosserpine? I am yet to open the Manual that came in the mail at home.

Regards,
PeterW

[Bigbjorn]

My Australian Supplement Owner's Handbook gives the following maximum axle weights for the vehicles with the 3.9 diesel:-

County Wagon- front 1300kgs, rear 1750kgs

Chassis/cab- front 1300kgs, rear 1900kgs

[TwoUp]

Brian,
I have 1200 front and 1850 rear. These came from the plate riveted to the brake pedal box in the engine compartment. The manual "Defender 96/97MY" refers to this plate.

Regards,
PeterW

[Bigbjorn]

1200 & 1850 in my book are the max. loads for the V8 Petrol Hard Top. Maybe you need to lose the plate and show a copy of the pages from the Australain Supplement for the Isuzu engined vehicles or borrow a plate from an Isuzu LR.

[TwoUp]

:D
It seems that the Transport Engineer want's to up the GVM of my vehicle, thus allowing the modifications. All that I want is a big green tick in the box. The method of getting there is of less relevance to me. I am not trying to make a high performance vehicle and this vehicle when completed will be a dinosaur, as most want a common rail eco friendly diesel these days and by the time I am finished with it the fuel prices will ensure its demise.

Regards,
PeterW

[Bigbjorn]

This little black duck certainly does not want an electronic common rail engine. Electronic failures are the reason I now have a County-Isuzu. No electronics whatsoever and can be push started and driven without an alternator or battery. I firmly believe that elctronically controlled vehicles are not suitable for outback and remote area use, and inevitably, an electronic failure will cause a tragedy in the outback.

[TwoUp]

I had a Td5 Defender stop on a dune near the border south of the Hay River in 2006. No tracks etc in the area and the going was rough as the grass mounds were like mogules. Initially when I was called on the radio I thought "of all places". The car sat idling. Turns out that a connector wasn't. Pushed it in and off we went. This could have been serious for the vehicle. The two in the car could have been placed in another but it was a bit difficult to tow from there. On another trip when on the inside track a D2 stoped in a creek crossing. He hit it so hard that water entered the snorkel and alerted a sensor in the airbox, thus the motor stopped. Whilst sitting there he aluded to the fact that there were sensors under the seat which were underwater by now. A good time for a break and replace his air filter and the D2 was drivable again.

I just don't know enough about the electronics to be happy with them.

Regards,
PeterW

[Lotz-A-Landies]

This little black duck certainly does not want an electronic common rail engine. Electronic failures are the reason I now have a County-Isuzu. No electronics whatsoever and can be push started and driven without an alternator or battery. I firmly believe that elctronically controlled vehicles are not suitable for outback and remote area use, and inevitably, an electronic failure will cause a tragedy in the outback.
Brian

Have to agree with you absolutely on this one - but just try to find someone who makes something like that these days.

Will the Indian Tata's see this philosophy or will they follow the Europeans like sheep or make something for their own backyard and ours?

Diana

[Bushie]

Brian

Will the Indian Tata's see this philosophy or will they follow the Europeans like sheep or make something for their own backyard and ours?

Diana


I suppose that will depend on whether they will want to sell any here, under the coming emission standards.


Martyn

[justinc]

I had a Td5 Defender stop on a dune near the border south of the Hay River in 2006. No tracks etc in the area and the going was rough as the grass mounds were like mogules. Initially when I was called on the radio I thought "of all places". The car sat idling. Turns out that a connector wasn't. Pushed it in and off we went. This could have been serious for the vehicle. The two in the car could have been placed in another but it was a bit difficult to tow from there. On another trip when on the inside track a D2 stoped in a creek crossing. He hit it so hard that water entered the snorkel and alerted a sensor in the airbox, thus the motor stopped. Whilst sitting there he aluded to the fact that there were sensors under the seat which were underwater by now. A good time for a break and replace his air filter and the D2 was drivable again.

I just don't know enough about the electronics to be happy with them.

Regards,
PeterW

Just a quick hijack Brian and peterW,

The main reason for us buying an HF radio was for the inevitability of accident or illness in remote areas, either ours or someone elses. The number of people venturing out to remote areas without sensible precautions like comms equipment and EPIRBS etc astounds me. They should treat the outback like the ocean, mandatory requirement is radio, EPIRB/Beacon and GPS in addition to adequate water and food for every person. This should be enforced.

Hijack and rant over now. Return to normal programming...:p



JC

[TwoUp]

Justinc,
I agree totally. I will not have anyone come along with me without being prepared. That includes me knowing some about their ability to drive the vehicel. Unfortunately I have had to exclude some from coming for that reason. They are told frankly and if the reason is preparedness then they had been told/ advised well in advance.
Regards,
PeterW

[Bigbjorn]

Just a quick hijack Brian and peterW,

The main reason for us buying an HF radio was for the inevitability of accident or illness in remote areas, either ours or someone elses. The number of people venturing out to remote areas without sensible precautions like comms equipment and EPIRBS etc astounds me. They should treat the outback like the ocean, mandatory requirement is radio, EPIRB/Beacon and GPS in addition to adequate water and food for every person. This should be enforced.

Hijack and rant over now. Return to normal programming...:p



JC

Well, Nat Buchanan, Matt Savage, Harry Redford, Steve Wall, the Duracks didn't have any of these, but then they didn't have vehicles either. My experience of living there was that the locals tend to take off with whatever is in their vehicle, usually a Uhf radio these days, with maybe some food and water. Perhaps they know where they are going and are bush wise. None of which is much use when the ute poops its engine management system 200 or more k's from help. Sit, wait, and hope then applies.

[TwoUp]

Traveling East of Birdsville had a Station Owner ask had we used the emegency channel for help, we had not. Later found said Station Owner at a Nissan Ute with head under bonnet. Seems the Nissan had spares but no idea of what to do with them so they enlisted help via emegency comms. So I guess its a case of two strings for the bow, then the bow breaks.

Regards,
PeterW

[wovenrovings]

A lot of the issues with reliability in the outback of electronicly controled engine, i think, have a lot to do with peoples ability to fix them. A lot of people have the ability now to diagnose a mechanical problem, and have the skills and tools to make some sort of repair. Not so many have the same ability with the electronics, skills or tools wise. I think it is something that is changing. I've read about more and more people geting modules to talk to the computers in their cars when in remote locations. (i'm not one them look at what i drive). Just like when people first learnt how to fix cars, instead of horses.

So anyway a detroit 3-53 what sort of power does that make?
I took individual wheel weights on my 120' and there front axle was carrying 1200kg in the empty condition, if that is any help.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I suppose that will depend on whether they will want to sell any here, under the coming emission standards.


Martyn
Martyn

That is what fail safe is all about - if they have to have electronics to pass emissions standards. Then on a vehicle that is to be used in remote areas it should fail to a state where it remains drivable for long distances and not in a low speed crawl "limp home" mode.

For example a petrol ECU would fail to essentially a basic electronic distributor (which were more reliable than the points distributors) that pulses the injectors as well and the plugs.

Also the with a lack of a national regional dealer network, the computer errors must be able to be re-set away from a dealers diagnostic computer. As someone mentioned on another thread - there should be an application where a PDA can function as an alternative to the dealer computer.

That's what I mean about a vehicle that can be used in our backyard.

Diana

[TwoUp]

131Bhp @ 2500 Rpm
423Nm Torque @1600 Rpm

The warantee is not so long but you can run them at full revs for the whole period (read continuously) and be covered!

There are few parts and it is an industrial motor. The worst thing you can do to them is treat them nice.

Regards,
PeterW

[Bigbjorn]

131Bhp @ 2500 Rpm
423Nm Torque @1600 Rpm

The warantee is not so long but you can run them at full revs for the whole period (read continuously) and be covered!

There are few parts and it is an industrial motor. The worst thing you can do to them is treat them nice.

Regards,
PeterW

Yes, they are built to run at rated load and governed rpm continuously as in a gen set or pump.

Joe Hawkes from Proserpine knows them and says they can be tweaked up to 200hp in TABB (turbocharged, aftercooled, blower bypass) spec.

They can be sound suppressed to an acceptable level. Detroit Diesels had the lion's share of the line haul coach market for many years and interior noise levels were quite acceptable for passenger service.

[Bigbjorn]

Martyn

That is what fail safe is all about - if they have to have electronics to pass emissions standards. Then on a vehicle that is to be used in remote areas it should fail to a state where it remains drivable for long distances and not in a low speed crawl "limp home" mode.

For example a petrol ECU would fail to essentially a basic electronic distributor (which were more reliable than the points distributors) that pulses the injectors as well and the plugs.

Also the with a lack of a national regional dealer network, the computer errors must be able to be re-set away from a dealers diagnostic computer. As someone mentioned on another thread - there should be an application where a PDA can function as an alternative to the dealer computer.

That's what I mean about a vehicle that can be used in our backyard.

Diana


My experience and that of friends and acquaintances has been that in quite a few instances major capital city dealerships can not diagnose the problems. Often they resort to replacing one component after another until hopefully they eventually solve the problem at enormous cost to the customer.

I had three roadside failures with one vehicle until the problem was eventually diagnosed. My late model Falcon has racked up six roadside stoppages and one overnight one (drove home OK but would not start in the morning) due to electronic and electrical problems. I have spent more towing this car in five years than spent in total on maintenance on my previous workhorse.

A friend had to have his 2006 VW Passat diesel trucked from Mt. Isa to Brisbane as the Mt. Isa dealer had no idea and admitted so. The principal dealer in Brisbane took 4 weeks to locate and rectify the trouble with considerable assistance from VW Aust. techos.

Another friend had hard starting, excessive fuel consumption, and excessive black smoke problems with his Nissan. The principal Brisbane dealership had several attempts to fix this, eventually resorting to the "replace everything in turn" scheme to no avail. The problem was solved by tracing every wire and component and connector and checking continuity and voltage throughout. This involved several days and removing the entire dashboard and console. Needless to sat he won't buy another one.

Now if major capital city dealerships can not diagnose and rectify these problems, what chance does an owner have of doing this roadside in the outback? In all too many cases nowadays there is not a dealer in small country towns other than Holden/Ford/Toyota and often not even one of these.