LT230 Intermediate shaft seal

[MinniTheMoocha]

My Defender 110 LT230 has had a small leak from the intermediate shaft o'ring seal since I got it and it is slowly getting worse.

Just wondering if anyone knows if the o'ring seal of the intermediate shaft can be replaced without pulling down the whole thing.

If you have to pull the Lt230 out to do this and then strip it down what are the things you would also do?

Is this something you need specialised tools for? I have fixed a few other things like timing belt, diff pinon seal etc. so feel I am getting better with the spanner but I work a keyboard on my day job.

Any help would be great.

Thanks

[isuzu110]

Have you read this thread ?

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/52296-transfer-case-oil-leak.html

[MinniTheMoocha]

Have you read this thread ?

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/52296-transfer-case-oil-leak.html

Yes but it doesn't really address the TC problem I have more to do with the main seal and fitment of the V8 R380 gearbox.

Thanks

[langy]

For the intermediate shaft seal, the short answer is no - it has to slide forward to fit the o-ring, and when connected to the gearbox, part of the gb lies in the path of the shaft.

In taking the TC off, I found that when I did it the 2nd time around, leaving the crossmember alone, and just taking the handbrake drum, handbrake assembly and driver side transmission mount bolts out was the simpler version. It's still better if you have a mate to help remove it from the gearbox, as it's right on the limit of a one person lift.

Whilst it's out, and given your assessment of your spanner skills, stick with what you know - do the 2 output and 1 input seal and that's it.

With the intermediate shaft, just watch it as you undo it. You only need to tap it a little to reveal one o-ring, and the other o-ring needs a scribe or similar to dig it out of the casing at the rear. Don't overtighten the shaft nut when putting it back - I'll presume you have a copy of RAVE for the right torque.

When you put the TC back, do it without the input shaft gear and coverplate.It makes it just a little easier.

Warning: Make sure the short bolts go into the right holes - otherwise the TC locks up and grinds the bolts.

[MinniTheMoocha]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the tips. I was hoping you might have something to say. Your a good source of technical knowledge.

I will only look at doing the seals. I had a quick flick of the overhaul manual and it did seem like you needed quite a few tools and skills to be able to do anything like bearings etc.

Can you clarify "part of the gb lies in the path of the shaft"

Do you mean it's easier to handle and locate the TC if you don't put the input shaft gear and coverplate on?

Hope to talk again soon.

[Bush65]

... I will only look at doing the seals. I had a quick flick of the overhaul manual and it did seem like you needed quite a few tools and skills to be able to do anything like bearings etc....
The seals are relatively easy to change.

You should make sure you have the cross drilled input gear. And check the splines on the gearbox main shaft and inside the t/case input gear for wear.


... Can you clarify "part of the gb lies in the path of the shaft"...
If you try to remover the t/case intermediate shaft in situ, the gearbox will interfere with the intermediate shaft. Therefore it is necessary to remove the LT230 from the gearbox.


... Do you mean it's easier to handle and locate the TC if you don't put the input shaft gear and coverplate on? ...

It is much easier because you don't have the problem of aligning the splines in the input gear with the splines on the gearbox mainshaft, at the same time you are man handling the weight of the t/case.

Also it is easier if you get some long bolts, cut the heads off (or use threaded rod) and screw these to the gearbox so they can be used to guide the t/case into place. The bolts or studs need to be long enough so you can remove them after the t/case is in place.

Early LT230 have roller bearings on the intermediate shaft. The intermediate shaft is held in place by a keeper plate and screw.

Later LT230 have taper roller bearings that must have the correct bearing pre-load. There is a crush sleeve between the opposing bearings, and the tightening torque applied to the nut that retains the intermediate shaft, crushes the sleeve to obtain the required bearing pre-load.

It is better to renew the crush sleeve and tighten the nut to the recommended torque.

If you re-use the pre-crushed, crush sleeve, you probably won't get the proper bearing pre-load, if you tighten the nut to the specified torque. Langy seems to be saying this is ok. I haven't done this so am more cautious.

The correct bearing preload is very important with taper roller bearings in gearboxes. It is calculated to give the correct clearance in the bearings when the t/case is at operating temps (steel and aluminium have different rates of thermal expansion) and under load.

If the preload is too high, the bearings won't have enough clearance and can fail from overheating.

If the preload is too low, the shaft will not keep the gear teeth aligned properly - the load may have to be carried by one side of the gear instead of shared across the full width, causing that side of the teeth to break. Or the tooth action will change because of the excessive backlash, leading to noise, wear and possibly break the tips of the teeth.

[MinniTheMoocha]

Thanks John (Bush65) for this extra information. I have a 1999 110 so expect it will be a late model TC.

If it is better to use a new crush sleeve what should I expect to pay?

I have some leave coming up in May so will set to pull it out then.

[jmkoffice]

BTW, it is also a good idea, whilst your TC is dismantled, to sleeve the intermediate shaft where it fits through the TC case housing - where the o-ring seals. It's a poor design as loading on the shaft wears the TC housing out-of-round thereby preventing the o-ring sealing properly (even a new one). It is worth the modification if you plan to keep the vehicle.

[MinniTheMoocha]

BTW, it is also a good idea, whilst your TC is dismantled, to sleeve the intermediate shaft where it fits through the TC case housing - where the o-ring seals. It's a poor design as loading on the shaft wears the TC housing out-of-round thereby preventing the o-ring sealing properly (even a new one). It is worth the modification if you plan to keep the vehicle.

Is it hard to sleeve the intermediate shaft hole?

I have read that MR Automotive do it but I am in Melbourne.

Thanks

[jmkoffice]

MR did the job for me. You should be able to find a reputable transmission place to do it for you.

Cheers

[MacMan]

I currently have an LT230 in pieces on the work bench. The Intermediate shaft came out last night. There is wear on the shaft because the intermediate gears had some axial float.

I am considering replacing the shaft, but rather than getting the case sleeved I am thinking of using some Loctite 609 shaft fit. Should take care of leaks and future wear.

[MinniTheMoocha]

I currently have an LT230 in pieces on the work bench. The Intermediate shaft came out last night. There is wear on the shaft because the intermediate gears had some axial float.

I am considering replacing the shaft, but rather than getting the case sleeved I am thinking of using some Loctite 609 shaft fit. Should take care of leaks and future wear.

Thanks for keeping me updated. I have been reading your other post as well.

My leak is getting worse and instead of fixing my leak over the planned annual leave I ended up taking the Defer for a tour of the Victorian high country and the family bus for a trip to QLD. So no time for the o-ring repair or transfer case rebuild.

In the mean time I have contacted a repairer about fitting a seal kit to the transfer case and was quoted $650. When I mentioned re-sleeving the case it was possible but the cost would go up as the whole case would need to be pulled down to do it.

Now I am not sure how much extra this is going to cost but wonder how important it is to re-sleeve it? Most repair centres I go to say "they just replace the o'ring" but after what you mentioned maybe it should it be done despite the extra expense.

As my car is the daily driver to work I am worried how long it will take to remove and rebuild so will be keenly watching how your rebuild goes.

Thanks MacMan

[MacMan]

I am lucky in that I have the time at the moment, and I am working on a spare box.

I was talking to the Girlie tonight about it and mentioned that I have probably only had spanners in my hands for a total of 1 hour, but have spent at least 12 hours cleaning.

Also told her that tomorrow, when she's not here, I'll be running the cases through the dishwasher. I got it good - she said she doesn't care!

:p

On the not so good, it looks like I will need a replacement intermediate shaft...

[MinniTheMoocha]

I am lucky in that I have the time at the moment, and I am working on a spare box.

I was talking to the Girlie tonight about it and mentioned that I have probably only had spanners in my hands for a total of 1 hour, but have spent at least 12 hours cleaning.

Also told her that tomorrow, when she's not here, I'll be running the cases through the dishwasher. I got it good - she said she doesn't care!

:p

On the not so good, it looks like I will need a replacement intermediate shaft...

I like the idea of rebuilding a spare box. When you pull out your old T/C are you going to rebuild it too? Or sell it?

I don't think I will be using my newly refurbished kitchen to clean anything but glasses and plates! Hopefully I will get access to a parts washer basin!

Shame about having to get a shaft as well. Are you sure the loctite will seal up the shaft? Will it handle the load put on it?

[MacMan]

I like the idea of rebuilding a spare box. When you pull out your old T/C are you going to rebuild it too? Or sell it?

Dunno. Depends how much I hate Land Rovers at the end of all of this.


I don't think I will be using my newly refurbished kitchen to clean anything but glasses and plates! Hopefully I will get access to a parts washer basin!

I have a parts washer from a place called RADUM out near the airport.

RADUM Pty Ltd. Australia Biggest Distributors of Electronic Components and cables of all types (http://radum.com.au/shopping/product_info.php?products_id=710)

It's on the small side but I don't have space for a full sized one. All parts have been washed in kero, but the cases will get an etch clean in the dishwasher. The slightly caustic detergent works wonders.


Shame about having to get a shaft as well. Are you sure the loctite will seal up the shaft? Will it handle the load put on it?

I'd rather not have to replace it but I don't anything failing in this box. I'll be using Loctite 609 which is specifically designed for cylindrical fitting applications (shafts, bearings etc).

MidwayUSA - Loctite 609 Retaining Compound 10 ml (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct'saleitemid=667024)

[MinniTheMoocha]

Dunno. Depends how much I hate Land Rovers at the end of all of this.

Once a Landrover owner always......under the car fixing something! SWMBO is starting to hate my Defer just because I always have a reason to be in the garage doing something.



MidwayUSA - Loctite 609 Retaining Compound 10 ml (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct'saleitemid=667024)

This stuff sounds like the go. I guess only time will tell if it was worth using.

I look forward to the next instalment.

[MacMan]

Centre diff is in bits. In need of new diff gears and shafts.

I hate giving a damn - this job is getting exxy!

[JohnM]

What is wrong with them, excessive play or something more??

[MacMan]

Shaft and gears both show scoring on the running surfaces and the hard facing on some of the gears is compromised. That's always a downward spiral!

[MinniTheMoocha]

Hey MacMan,

Are you still taking photo's

This would enable mechanicing wannabies like myself to see what you are seeing.

I have heard of the hardened surface wearing away and still being left to do the job? Are they that bad?

[MacMan]

I am taking photos, but I have not taken any off the camera yet or resized them. I was going to see if I could set up a blog somewhere to show them all.

Stay tuned!

[ashtrans]

My Defender 110 LT230 has had a small leak from the intermediate shaft o'ring seal since I got it and it is slowly getting worse.

Just wondering if anyone knows if the o'ring seal of the intermediate shaft can be replaced without pulling down the whole thing.

If you have to pull the Lt230 out to do this and then strip it down what are the things you would also do?

Is this something you need specialised tools for? I have fixed a few other things like timing belt, diff pinon seal etc. so feel I am getting better with the spanner but I work a keyboard on my day job.

Any help would be great.

Thanks

Hi,

if you do this job, we use a slightly thicker section O ring, part number BS 121, 26.65 x 2.62 and fit it with a smear of silicon,

Dave

[MacMan]

Handy hint! Thanks!

[MinniTheMoocha]

Well after putting up with the leak for nearly two years Michael2 and myself pulled out the T/C and replaced both o'ring seals, gaskets and the rear output shaft seal.

The T/C was in fantastic condition. As there was no sign of leaking from the rear of the gearbox we didn't replace the rear seal. I hope this doesn't come back to bite me.

I did use a new crush sleeve when refitting the intermediate shaft to get the bearing preload right. It only cost $3 so not too pricey.

Its a darn heavy lift back in so wish I had made the mounting plate.

Anyway its nice to not see the drips coming from the T/C anymore.

[fraser130]

MinniTheMoocha, I have a small leak that appears to be coming down the front of the transfer case next to the front output shaft, I have had no luck spotting the cause of this leak as it is up out of sight, is this perhaps the one you have just repaired?...

Cheers,

Fraser

[rick130]

MinniTheMoocha, I have a small leak that appears to be coming down the front of the transfer case next to the front output shaft, I have had no luck spotting the cause of this leak as it is up out of sight, is this perhaps the one you have just repaired?...

Cheers,

Fraser

maybe, but can also be coming from the diff lock switch or actuator shaft.
You'll have to lift the floor to tell.

[MinniTheMoocha]

MinniTheMoocha, I have a small leak that appears to be coming down the front of the transfer case next to the front output shaft, I have had no luck spotting the cause of this leak as it is up out of sight, is this perhaps the one you have just repaired?...

Cheers,

Fraser


Use a torch and look at the top of the T/C. You should be able to see the end of the intermediate shaft. When I first got the car it had just a weep that took a little while to accumalate on the bottom of the T/C.

It progressed to a drip after a run in the car. Then I noticed the oil patch just kept getting bigger after each drive.


The leak I had clearly was coming from the shaft and silicon had been smeared over the end of it to try plug it up.

Check as per Rick's suggestion just to be sure where the leak originates from.

I hope this helps and let us know how you go. Sorry for late reply as been busy at work so somewhat offline.

[fraser130]

Ta for your responses guys, I'll get on to it next week as I'm flat out with work, then heading away for a few days, when I get back I'll pressure wash the area then have a good look.
Rick: I don't want to lose any of that oil!
Whereever it's coming from it's very small, as the tranfer case still had a fair amount of oil in it after 9 months of leaking.
I'll have some time off shortly and sort it then properly as I'm sooo close to having a landy that doesn't leak (never experienced that before!)

Thanks again,
Fraser