Isuzu Truck motors ?????? drive train combos

[garryseries3]

HI all
Forgive my ignorance but I own a 2a Series SWB and I would like to fit a Isuzu motor to it and of cause all the associated drive train to make it bomb proof. But of cause the motors are not easy to find so I was wondering is there a lot of difference with 3.9L motors made by Isuzu or are they all pretty well much of a muchness except for a few minor differences depending on the vehicle. As I said I am fairly niave to these issues I was looking at a 1984 Isuzu 3-4 tonne truck with a 3.9L. Is there an ID on the motors and where abouts are they to confirm the motor type. I though the LT95 box seemed from reading here to be the strongest option then Possibly Series 3 stage 1 brakes and booster and diffs. any thought on this combination most appreciated.
Kindest regards
Garry

[Bush65]

Large letters "4BD1" are cast on the left side of the block, between the sump and the cover over the push rods.

Note: there is no "-T" cast on the turbocharged engine.

There are differences in the starter motor and some have 2 mounting bolts, others have 3.

Some differences occur with type of turbo and exhaust manifold. Also some differences in inlet manifold.

Some don't have the gear driven power steering pump.

Some different tappet covers.

Turbo engines have a different crankcase breather arrangement.

AFAIK, the truck engines are 24V.

Some internal differences between turbo and non-turbo engines.

An LT95 will not bolt up to the flywheel housing on a truck engine.

The oil filters are mounted differently on the engines in Land Rovers, to give clearance from the driveshaft.

The sump on the engines in Land Rovers, has an extension to the left side.

There have been differences in the fuel injection pumps, over the years and for different locations.

[JDNSW]

To fit the engine plus LT95 into a 2a will be a major undertaking. Because you need Landrover specific parts, the easiest would be to get hold of an Isuzu engined Stage 1 and start from there. The parts that are hard to find i.e. not off Isuzu truck or common Landrover or Rangerover parts (that I can think of) are:-

Bell housing for LT95 to fit Isuzu.
Oil filter assembly with filters pointing up.
Sump to clear front axle.
12v electrics

Stage1 front axle
Stage 1 steering assembly (may be able to manage without this)
Stage 1 front prop shaft.
Stage 1 brake M/C
Stage 1 Handbrake assembly (probably can use RR or 110)


You will also need a custom rear prop shaft, Rangerover rear diff, lwb rear brakes, custom remodelling of floor and firewall and seat box.

John

[DRanged]

To fit the engine plus LT95 into a 2a will be a major undertaking. Because you need Landrover specific parts, the easiest would be to get hold of an Isuzu engined Stage 1 and start from there. The parts that are hard to find i.e. not off Isuzu truck or common Landrover or Rangerover parts (that I can think of) are:-

Bell housing for LT95 to fit Isuzu.
Oil filter assembly with filters pointing up.
Sump to clear front axle.
12v electrics

Stage1 front axle
Stage 1 steering assembly (may be able to manage without this)
Stage 1 front prop shaft.
Stage 1 brake M/C
Stage 1 Handbrake assembly (probably can use RR or 110)


You will also need a custom rear prop shaft, Rangerover rear diff, lwb rear brakes, custom remodelling of floor and firewall and seat box.

John

Dont forget the hardest part of all to find.

The sandwich plate to mate a 4BD1 to the LR bellhousing. if I only had a shed full of them.

Justin

[JDNSW]

Dont forget the hardest part of all to find.

The sandwich plate to mate a 4BD1 to the LR bellhousing. if I only had a shed full of them.

Justin

Actually, unless I am mistaken, the factory installation had a special bell housing - probably even rarer. The sandwich plate can be made by a competent engineering works or even a skilled home mechanic - for example I saw my next door farmer neighbour fit a modern diesel engine to a fifty year old tractor, took him about two weeks to design and make the plate in his spare time.

John

[Dave_S]

This might be a bit premature, but I'll soon be pulling apart a 110 Isuzu County and will probably sell the engine complete (including 12 volt starter motor & alternator). This will get around the issue of finding all the Land Rover specific bits. Not sure what I'm doing with the gearbox yet. Happy to discuss if anyone wants to PM me.

[Dougal]

Is it worth measuring up an adaptor ring and locking it down into a CAD drawing?

[DRanged]

Is it worth measuring up an adaptor ring and locking it down into a CAD drawing?

Yes anyone got one. They were made by Isuzu for Land Rover and still have a part number on the system, Land Rover will only order them if they get a certain quantity.

Justin

[mudmouse]

G'day,

I'd also be considering the type of vehicle you'll end up with. The 4BD1 weighs in at 420kgs + (sorry I don't have an actual weight), and thats a fair lump over the front axle when it's in a shorty - the weight distribution might make a few engineers nervous and a bit (more) of a dog in the handling department. Then you're looking at brakes, springs etc. I'd agree with John; if you're dead keen then look a stage 1 as a donor. The cost of locating and fitting all the 12v and 'Land Rover' chassis compatible gear is very expensive when you start with a truck engine - it's taken me over 2 years to compile all the stuff for my transplant into a Discovery, let alone the phone calls, trips to wreckers and being stuffed around by misleading information from suppliers.

Gearbox options include an Isuzu truck box but then you'll need an adaptor plate and adaptor shaft machined and thats around 2 grand. Have a look at www.4btswaps.com This site includes 4BD1(t) swaps and is a gold mine for info on that engine and compatible gearboxs.

I'd never discourage a bloke from having a go because they're be plenty of support and advice from AULRO - but it's a big job and like many conversions, work out a budget and double it - then you'll be realistic:)

Good luck mate and keep us all posted on how you get on.

There's a 90 or two in here with 4BD1's so you might get an idea how they ended up.

[rijidij]

The flywheel housings are different from a Landy and a truck, as are the flywheels. From memory, the Landy flywheel doesn't quite fit in the truck housing. The clutch and pressure plate is also different. You will also need a throwout bearing spacer and a new spiggot bush to replace the spiggot bearing. I converted my V8 County to an Isuzu engine from a truck so I also needed a longer clutch pushrod. I'm sure there are more bits and pieces that I've forgotten at the moment too.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/04/551.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/04/552.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/04/553.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/04/554.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/04/555.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/04/556.jpg

[garryseries3]

So it seems while the basic block and internals are the same the Isuzu engine Land Rovers had several had to get components to make a truck Isuzu motor difficult to do. I am really better of with finding a donor Series 3 stage one and preferably one with a LT95 box fitted. So which model LR had this combination, Stage 1s and County? I suppose seeing these motor refuse to die there are few if any dead ones lying around, this being the case how best to find one?
Garry

[garryseries3]

So finding a Stage One would simplfy the conversion espeasially if it has a LT95 attached. So how can I best get one, anyone know of a dead Stage 1 with an Isuzu in it or perhaps a unregistered donor that is mechancally sound?

[EchiDna]

been two in the markets in the past month for $1500 in SA and $2500 in QLD respectively

[garryseries3]

Matt I hear what your saying even if I manage to find a donor it could handle far worse due to the weight distrbution and to top it off the costs are far beyond the value of the vehicle. This is sounding like as a conversion that is not as good as it may have seemed. Would the 300 Tdi be a better option with or a 200Tdi with possbly a different box attached to lighten the weight over the axels issues Could they provide less modifcations to fit and give a better SWB as a daily driver? From a previous Thread it seems that the 200Ttdi can fit realitively easily into the SWB and will bolt to the series box. Are there other gearboexs that would convert easily or are any of the later boxes going to offer up similar modification to the body and chassis as the LT95? I do understand that spares for these motors parts have become an issue. So the 300Tdi while more plentify seems more differcult to slot in partly due to it having to be mated to a non series box. More so than using the Isuzu motor transplant?

[garryseries3]

I take it you mean Stage 1 Isuzu the ones in SA were they just through papers or the Trading Post

[Bigbjorn]

[QUOTE=mudmouse;726598]G'day,

The 4BD1 weighs in at 420kgs + (sorry I don't have an actual weight) /QUOTE]

Isuzu say 325kgs fan to flywheel for a 4BD1 and 340 for a 4BD1T per spec sheet in the workshop manual. This mass does not bother the County's handling. Land Rover Australia give a maximum front axle weight for the 110 and County with Isuzu of 1300kgs for the 4x4 and 1500 for the 6x6.

[Dougal]

The flywheel housings are different from a Landy and a truck, as are the flywheels. From memory, the Landy flywheel doesn't quite fit in the truck housing. The clutch and pressure plate is also different. You will also need a throwout bearing spacer and a new spiggot bush to replace the spiggot bearing. I converted my V8 County to an Isuzu engine from a truck so I also needed a longer clutch pushrod. I'm sure there are more bits and pieces that I've forgotten at the moment too.


Great photos, thanks.
So the Landy housing has the starter higher to clear the chassis rails (my chassis was notched to clear the starter), the rear main seal is in the bellhousing and the clutch moves to the left hand side.

That clears up a lot of questions for me.
Does this bolt up to an LT85/95 or is there something else inbetween?

[Dougal]

Isuzu say 325kgs fan to flywheel for a 4BD1 and 340 for a 4BD1T per spec sheet in the workshop manual. This mass does not bother the County's handling. Land Rover Australia give a maximum front axle weight for the 110 and County with Isuzu of 1300kgs for the 4x4 and 1500 for the 6x6.

My 4BD1T rangie is 1170kg on the front axle empty. It's been that way for 15 years now.

[mudmouse]

Engine weight - Thank you Brian.

I think with any vehicle modification you do have to look at the cost versus the end result. But really, if you want 4BD1 then that's what you want and anything else is a compromise of your desire.

Other engine possibilities are the Isuzu 4JB1-t (see link below). I think these engines are available, new long motor for about $3k and were used in Rodeos until about 2003.

Grand Cherokee Diesel Conversion (http://www.canev.com/Jeep.html)

This other link is a UK company with a big range of conversions. I think there's the 200/300 Tdi to Series conversion but everything south of the flywheel would need looking at considering the torque increase. I think the 'new' 300Tdi's are about $14k out of the box and I haven't had anything to do with 200/300's so I couldn't comment on their parts costs or reliability.

Land Rover conversions - M&D Engineering (http://www.mdengineering.co.uk/index.php?act=category&cat_id=1)

About 15 years ago I tipped about $2500 worth of Nissan 5 speed into my SIII shorty. Now that was about what the truck was worth but it's what I wanted and served me well until I bought my '91 Disco in 2002.

Lastly, always have a talk with an engineer before you start. Vicroads should have a list of engineering signatories on their website. The NSW RTA have one on their books who helped me get my papers through - he worked at Solihull in the '60s and was a great help.

Hope these links help.

[rijidij]

The rear main seal is in the bellhousing.

Does this bolt up to an LT85/95 or is there something else inbetween?

The rear main seal is in my flywheel housing because my housing is the Army Spec one which is cast and machined in one piece. Standard Landy housings are two pieces (housing and inspection plate) with the main seal fitted in a small sepperate alloy housing bolted to the back of the engine (similar to the truck housing pictured in my earlier post). The Army flywheel housing is totally sealed except for the wading plug.

I have an LT95, but it doesn't matter if you have a 4 speed or 5 speed, the flywheel housing is the same, but the bellhousing will be different.

Cheers, Murray