Victoria...the Nanny State.

[feral]

Another stupid road rule bought in by another stupid government.

In Victoria you were able to have your fog lights on at any time but now that has changed.


From The Age.....

"Meanwhile, the Government has also banned the use of car fog lights in anything other than hazardous conditions.

Roads Minister Tim Pallas said fog lamps used in normal conditions could cause glare and affect other drivers' ability to see."

It's now a $116 fine. Nice little revenue raiser that one ;)

So be warned :coplight:

[PhilipA]

I hope that covers those intensely annoying Hyundai rear fog lights.
Its illegal in NSW and many get pinged but not enough IMHO.
Regards Philip A

[p38arover]

About bloody time!

It's been the law here for ages. I thought it was in the uniform Australian Road Rules - but I can't find it.

I hate them - they provide bugger all road illumination in good weather and only glare in the eyes of oncoming cars.

You don't know how many times I've been tempted to get out of my car with a hammer and to smash them on other cars - or to get a can of black spray paint and just paint over them.

Like PhilipA says, the rear Excel fogs are a blight!




217 Using rear fog lights
(1) The driver of a vehicle fitted with a rear fog light must not
operate the fog light unless the driver is driving in fog or other
hazardous weather conditions causing reduced visibility.
Offence provision.
(2) In this rule:

rear fog light

means a light fitted to a vehicle to make it more



easily visible from the rear in fog.

[rangieman]

Another stupid road rule bought in by another stupid government.

In Victoria you were able to have your fog lights on at any time but now that has changed.


From The Age.....

"Meanwhile, the Government has also banned the use of car fog lights in anything other than hazardous conditions.

Roads Minister Tim Pallas said fog lamps used in normal conditions could cause glare and affect other drivers' ability to see."

It's now a $116 fine. Nice little revenue raiser that one ;)

So be warned :coplight:
Whats stupid about that law :p

What are fog lights meant for (self explanatory i say):D

About time i say , maybe some of them city folk yuppies who think its cool to drive around with fog lights on will now get booked

Maybe you have never been blinded by some of those stupid lights
Get over it i say and see the light :coplight: you fog light lovers

[rangieman]

About bloody time!

It's been the law here for ages. It's in the uniform Australian Road Rules.

I hate them - they provide bugger all road illumination in good weather and only glare in the eyes of oncoming cars.

You don't know how many times I've been tempted to get out of my car with a hammer and to smash them on other cars - or to get a can of black spray paint andf just paint ove them.

Like PhilipA says, the rear Excel fogs are a blight!
Im with you ron id love to smash some of them lights and them idiots that use them on city streets where they serve no purpose at all and country roads that all they do is blind the oncoming driver:twisted:

[Psimpson7]

Yep, I agree, about bloody time.....

Pete

[simonl8353]

Agree with the bright lights thing, they are dazzlers. But many also consider them as driving lights (ok, use der headlights then!). The front ones are ok it's the rears that really annoy and are dangerous.

Could the manufacturers and legislators consider fitting a switchable resistor to them to switch those at the front from FOG to DRIVING :D

[nesjules]

What a good piece of legislation. The number of w--k---s that drive around with fog and headlights on at the same time totally annoys me. Fog lights are for fog - by themselves, to reduce glare. Using them with headlights increases glare to the driver in foggy conditions and dazzle to others in clesr conditions. And as for rear foglights my opinion is that they should only be used when there is no-one following, and turned off as soon as someone appears behind, 'cos they know you're there then

Cheers

Jules

[moose]

Hooray for a rule that makes sense!:banana:

Now they just have to police it!:coplight:

[incisor]

Another stupid road rule bought in by another stupid government.

In Victoria you were able to have your fog lights on at any time but now that has changed.


From The Age.....

"Meanwhile, the Government has also banned the use of car fog lights in anything other than hazardous conditions.

Roads Minister Tim Pallas said fog lamps used in normal conditions could cause glare and affect other drivers' ability to see."

It's now a $116 fine. Nice little revenue raiser that one ;)

So be warned :coplight:

about bloody time i reckon...

[simonl8353]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, not heard back from Feral yet! Although it would be good to understand the other point of view though.

But I don't think this thread would need a poll. Pretty obvious :p

[rangieman]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, not heard back from Feral yet! Although it would be good to understand the other point of view though.

But I don't think this thread would need a poll. Pretty obvious :p
He,s a brave man for saying its a silly law i reckon , or a glutton for punishment:Rolling:

[amtravic1]

Its about time they banned those w**ker lights. Some common sense at last.

Ian

[Bigbjorn]

Brought Vic. into line with the rest of the country. Qld. Transport rules on the mounting and use of fog lights are very specific.

[Hucksta]

Yep sounds good to me also.....

Yes it is unfortunate that the government will benefit from the fines, however, I think IMHO that it is sensible to legislate against the yuppie morons that drive around with them on ....

that's my 1 cent worth

Hucksta

[460cixy]

those stupid lights arnt even good for fog i dunno what there use is except ****ing me off

[Redback]

He,s a brave man for saying its a silly law i reckon , or a glutton for punishment:Rolling:

Don't think he expected the response he got:spudnikworried::oops2:

[sclarke]

Perfect............

Sick of the HSV and WRX drivers with them on all the time....

Ohh and CRV and RAV..... list goes on....

[100I]

About bloody time I think too.

They were heavily policed in QLD up until say the last 5-8 years then they seemed to give up.

Really gives me the irrits! Pet hate.

[feral]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, not heard back from Feral yet! Although it would be good to understand the other point of view though. :p



He,s a brave man for saying its a silly law i reckon , or a glutton for punishment:Rolling:


Don't think he expected the response he got:spudnikworried::oops2:




:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:oh, you guys :lol2::lol2:

Ok. Where do I start....

Let's just remove the preconceptions and emotive language that always accompanies this argument. So now we have reduced the opinions to half :p

I totally agree with the rear fog lights that do come on but strangely enough not many people have these lit so it's a very small problem, virtually non-existent.

What would be the statistic that fog lights on have caused accidents and contributed to the road toll? Seriously look at the stats and how can you possibly say that fog lights have contributed. I'm all for safer roads and driving standards but please spare me from rules and regs that have no significant value.

Brian Hjelm is right that in Victoria the ruling was that you could have any forward facing clear lens light lit at any time. There was no further regulation to restict it like in the other states & territories. So you could legally drive in Victoria with all driving, fog, high beam headlights on as long as you maintained the 200 metre rule of other vehicles.

What happened to the logical sense that you make your vehicle as visual as possible to prevent that you were not seen. The whole concept of having lights on is so that you will be seen. Therefore, you are much safer on the roads for everyone. Yes, I could run headlights or parkers but the D2 fog light is a true low cut light so it makes no difference, its just brighter than the parkers.

The fog lights that appear to be blinding people are mainly on WRX or Aussie utes, would you agree? These are not fog lights they are driving lights and should be treated as such so the :censored: that have these on can and should be booked for breaking the existing law. No further laws are required.

Of course this argument is not such a big deal and I certainly will not be slashing my wrists over it but as with all governments they have to be seen to be doing something. So what's next? Insurance companies proving that black cars cause billions of dollars lost in accidents, production at work and health care costs to the community. So we ban black cars. How about the bullbars that cause serious injuries to the pedestrians, we ban these as well. All FWD's are a blight on society and should be banned. At what point do you stand up and just say....hey, thats life, get over it.

So, there you have it. It's been great to know that you all care for me :lol2:

[neil-d1]

no fog lights when its not foggy:o are they for real? next they will be saying keep left unless overtaking!

[Fusion]

The fog lights in my VY calais are only 55watt ..... same as low beam . And yet i still get flashed high beams from others without the fog lights on . It's a stupid rule for the cars that have the proper fog lights in them as they are no brighter than the low beam in your standard head lights .... Fords (BA onwards ) have drive lights as do WRX's .... and i think that the new BMW is the worst with just normal lights ... man they are bright .:p

[moose]

Problem is with the lights that aren't focussed, ie, commodore, some suby's, etc. If they are focussed right they will have a "cut-off" line so as not to dazzle oncoming drivers, hence the reason you get flashed in your calais wannalandy, it's not the wattage that matters.

As for how many accidents they have caused, how many do they need to cause? The fact they can dazzle oncoming drivers is dangerous enough.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

The fog lights in my VY calais are only 55watt ..... same as low beam . ...
Mick
4 X 55 Watts is 220 Watts, brighter than many people's High Beam. This is a real problem for people who are ageing with cataracts, even with only the first early stages of them, glare can iliminate their ability to see at all, and it happens really fast at the speed the two vehicles are approaching.

The problem with fog lights is that they don't go out on low beam.

In reality, in fog the fog lights should be low and used without the main beam on to stop the reflected glare and be able to see the markings on the road.

If the manufacturers wired them up correctly they would only come on with the parkers and not with the headlights.

Diana

[Fusion]

Problem is with the lights that aren't focussed, ie, commodore, some suby's, etc. If they are focussed right they will have a "cut-off" line so as not to dazzle oncoming drivers, hence the reason you get flashed in your calais wannalandy, it's not the wattage that matters.

As for how many accidents they have caused, how many do they need to cause? The fact they can dazzle oncoming drivers is dangerous enough.

Howdy Moose , The Calais does have the cut off line and when driving it is plain to see this line ... todays lights are a lot better than the candles people used to have in the 80's and early 90's .... Just something i think we all have to put up with ;).

[rangieman]

Feral and what a joke you suggest to have as many lights on to make your car more visible :wallbash:
If you cant see a car with 2 headlights and 2 parkers on:Rolling: , id suggest that person is blind and should not be driving

How many years has the motor car been around with 2 headlights and 2 sidelights(parkers)

The legal requirement is to have the above 2 of each

[100I]

Feral, seeing a vehicle is one thing, judging it's speed and distance quite another;). Bright is not always right.

Spare a thought for those who regularly drive at night, eyes get very tired very quickly squinting against bright oncoming lights.

[moose]

The Calais does have the cut off line and when driving it is plain to see this line ....


Sorry, I had the SS ones in my head. A lot of them are atrocious from the factory.

[Bigbjorn]

Mick
4 X 55 Watts is 220 Watts, brighter than many people's High Beam. This is a real problem for people who are ageing with cataracts, even with only the first early stages of them, glare can iliminate their ability to see at all, and it happens really fast at the speed the two vehicles are approaching.

The problem with fog lights is that they don't go out on low beam.

In reality, in fog the fog lights should be low and used without the main beam on to stop the reflected glare and be able to see the markings on the road.

If the manufacturers wired them up correctly they would only come on with the parkers and not with the headlights.

Diana

Qld. Transport:-" A pair of fog lights, showing a beam of white or yellow light, may be fitted to the front of a motor vehicle with the centres no higher than the top of the dipped beam headlight. The lights must be mounted symmetrically not less than 600mm apart.

Fog Lights must be capable of being switched on and off independently of any headlights but must only be able to be switched on when the parking lights are on. fog lights must not be used except in fog or mist or under other atmospheric conditions which restrict visibility."

Seem pretty clear to me.

[Hucksta]

Time to settle it......

It has been an offence in Victoria for some years now regarding the use of rear fog lights, yes just like those ones on Hyundais and others. It is Victorian Road Rule 217 (1) and states it is an offence to ....'Operate rear fog light other than as permitted' ie - when not foggy .... der .... Penalty 116 bucks. Look it up, it's there alright ....

It is my understanding that the new offence relates directly to the forward facing fog lights . ie - the bright white ones. There is already an offence in the road rules pertaining to the use of white lights either fitted or hand held that that have the capacity to 'dazzle' other road users, this section also includes high beam although it is a seperate offence too say .. using a spot light to 'dazzle'. I believe that the new offence was designed to legislate against motorist fitting fog lights or using fog lights to do normal driving in an attempt to combat the effect of 'dazzle' ie cars using way to many forward facing lights when not needed. (Once gain you would think that common sense would prevail, however as a lot of people lack that these days the government is forced to legislate against it)

There is case law that states that if a driver is driving in good weather conditions with fog lights and parkers on but no head lights it is illegal (I know this as i was at court to hear the Magistrates judgement, although this would be comon sense anyway wouldn't it) Forget the revenue, just don't use them when it's not needed .....

That's more than 1 cent worth, hope it makes sense ......

Hucksta

:):):)

[simonl8353]

C'mon guys, this is pretty simple stuff.

If anyone has driven in pea soup fog, especially the stuff in Europe, you cannot even see a headlight through only 30M of fog so the HIGH INTENSITY lower positioned fog light was invented. Its lower to get under the cloud as much as possible to project a warning light as far forward as possible. Not to really see the road, but as a warning to others.

Did you ever hear the true story from France about 20yrs ago, two drivers were decapitated when they passed each other in a fog and smaked heads as they were both leaning out of their windows trying to follow the white line. Real fog is very very bad news.

When its not foggy, dont use them, even if you do think you look cool.

Some newer cars (US mainly) have noticed the "I wanna look cool" market and are now manufacturing these lights with a lower intensity beam to effectively become a driving light, nothing wrong with that, ask Volvo.

Do lights make you more visable? YES. Do bright lights dazzel? YES. So pick a compromise. Use headlights or sidelights during the day to be visable if you want, use the fog lights during fog or get proper drivng lights fitted. Dont pretend the fog lights are driving lights please.

Done....

[p38arover]

4 X 55 Watts is 220 Watts, brighter than many people's High Beam. This is a real problem for people who are ageing with cataracts, even with only the first early stages of them, glare can iliminate their ability to see at all, and it happens really fast at the speed the two vehicles are approaching.

That's interesting, Diana.

I have cataracts (early stages) in both eyes but one of them does affect my reading. I find glare is a problem. I put off having them done after having had 3 operations for a detached retina I'm not keen on eye surgeons playing with my eyes. :(

Ron

[Hucksta]

Just to clarify what i said about the court decision re the fog lights ......

The Magistrate made a point to say that had the weather conditions been inclement, foggy or similar then the use of the fog lights with parkers and not headlights would have been appropriate. I'd have to look it up but the law states somewhere that at night cars must have their head lights on and there is a definition that describes what the head lights are on a vehicle, this does not include fog lights, they are seperate. Anyway, that's all I've got.....

I've gotta go, have to read the kids a bed time story.... bi bi

Hucksta

[simonl8353]

And another thing.................

If you drive in pea soup fog, your own headlights actually dazzel....you, due to the reflection off the fog. So SOP is to drive in fog with your parkers on and fog lights front and rear, no headlights.

Done, done and dusted.......

just finished reading Milo's Adventures, Now he's cool

[Hymie]

Bloody ****** lights!!!!!
About time they were banned completely as well as those Red Rear Fog Lights!
So they might be OK for Europe where they get thick fogs, as long as they don't follow the European practice of driving on the right side of the road as well.
After my Laser eye surgery I find any bright lightsource really dazzles me.
It's no good having laws that won't be enforced due to a lack of Coppers though

[Treads]

You never know, Victoria (and maybe even the other states :o ) might start enforcing some other important laws, like protrusions from bullbars and height restrictions on forward facing lights. I see more and more 4wd's with w--k-r lights on the roof & so many bullbars with multiple antennas and rod holders. The law prohibiting the use of these has been in force for just as long as the fog light one, just nobody seems to do anything about them.

*steps off soapbox*

:angel:

[Hymie]

My point exactly.
There's no law against roof mounted lights, as long as they are facing down when the vehicle is driven on a Highway, as far as I know.....



You never know, Victoria (and maybe even the other states :o ) might start enforcing some other important laws, like protrusions from bullbars and height restrictions on forward facing lights. I see more and more 4wd's with w--k-r lights on the roof & so many bullbars with multiple antennas and rod holders. The law prohibiting the use of these has been in force for just as long as the fog light one, just nobody seems to do anything about them.

*steps off soapbox*

:angel:

[CaverD3]

I ran into a tree branch in the middle of the road when dazzled by fog lights, managed to swerve and only hit the leafy bit.:o
They can cause accidents IME but some think it is cool to have them on.:mad:

Saw a great bumper sticker on a cruiser with QLD plates:

'Fog lights are for fog and *******'

:)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

My point exactly.
There's no law against roof mounted lights, as long as they are facing down when the vehicle is driven on a Highway, as far as I know.....
Hymie

You are correct the ADR's do not specify a maximum height for driving lights (or additional headlamps) However where they can get you is in the interpretation. (for NSW Regulations) Road Transport (Vehicle Registration) Regulation 2007 (http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/maintop/scanact/inforce/NONE/0)Schedule 2 Division 2 Section 90, "Performance of headlights" Clause (2) Headlights must be fitted to a vehicle so their light does not reflect off the vehicle into the driver’s eyes..

The claim Police will make is that lights, above the windscreen for example, can shine on the bonnet or the rear of the bull-bar and reflect into the drivers eyes. Therefore the additional lights are illegal.

Regards
Diana

[RoverOne]

no fog lights when its not foggy:o are they for real? next they will be saying keep left unless overtaking!

They do in NSW on dual carraigeways, it's sign posted, and I love coming up behind anyone in the right lane hogging it and blast them with my illegal air horns :twisted:

[Fusion]

What gives me the s@#!s is drivers that come up behind you with the high beams on .Or they are coming towards you and leave them on :mad:. Can't see them banning high beam . And unless you are out in the sticks with roo's and other animals running over the road i don't think you should use high beam at all .

[WildOne]

What gives me the s@#!s is drivers that come up behind you with the high beams on .Or they are coming towards you and leave them on :mad:. Can't see them banning high beam . And unless you are out in the sticks with roo's and other animals running over the road i don't think you should use high beam at all .

Thats what good reversing/work lights on the back of the Landy are for:twisted: I'm always overly concious of making sure my high beams are dimmed when approaching a slower vehicle, nothing worse. And i'm also quick to flash oncoming vehicles that have forgotten to dim their highs.

[Scouse]

get a can of black spray paint and just paint over them.I refuse to add to this statement on the grounds that I may incriminate myself.

[UncleHo]

G'day Folks :)

It is an interesting read this thread, and says a lot about the different states and also the age of the drivers, having only recently returned from Cooma, it was noticeable that the NSW and most other vehicles had correctly focused headlights, it used to be that in NSW when going for annual RWC the headlight aim was checked, incorrect=fail, But in QLD there is no annual RWC only RWC when selling a vehicle, and if both headlights work = Pass (doesn't matter if one is on High the other on Low Beam, or if they are blinding aircraft or searching for oil :mad: this coupled with the now industry norm of high intensity globes, gives improved light, but increased glare, I think that the majority of State Transport rules still state that the maximum wattage of a high beam globe as 75 watt, these laws were written with the advent of the sealed beam being the common headlamp in use, cica 1970-1980,and the speed limit was 100 kph. so, like most things automotive the written law is a 1/4 of a century behind common usage:(

That's my 10cents worth (inflation)

cheers

[Bigbjorn]

What gives me the s@#!s is drivers that come up behind you with the high beams on .Or they are coming towards you and leave them on :mad:. Can't see them banning high beam . And unless you are out in the sticks with roo's and other animals running over the road i don't think you should use high beam at all .

Buy and fit a Unity spotlight, see UNITY HAS THE RIGHT LIGHT (http://www.unityusa.com), and then you can aim the beam right into their face from your drivers seat. These fit on the outside of the vehicle with a handle and switch on the inside. They can be moved in both planes from the inside. Nothing like 100 watts of QH spotlight to get the message across.

[p38arover]

What gives me the s@#!s is drivers that come up behind you with the high beams on .Or they are coming towards you and leave them on :mad:. Can't see them banning high beam . And unless you are out in the sticks with roo's and other animals running over the road i don't think you should use high beam at all .

In NSW, it used to be (and may still be) an offence to use high beam on a road or street that has street lighting.

[Bigbjorn]

That's interesting, Diana.

I have cataracts (early stages) in both eyes but one of them does affect my reading. I find glare is a problem. I put off having them done after having had 3 operations for a detached retina I'm not keen on eye surgeons playing with my eyes. :(

Ron

A Japanese man went to his physician about an eyesight problem.

His Dr. said " Ah, sooo, you have a cataract"

He replied "No, I have Rincon Continentar"

[UncleHo]

G'day P38arover :)

You will love the Qld regulations :) it is legal to drive in a built up area with HIGH BEAM :eek::eek::eek: because of poor street lighting. :mad:

When I changed my licence back to Qld after many years in NSW, I was almost failed on that question:mad:

cheers

[Bigbjorn]

G'day P38arover :)

You will love the Qld regulations :) it is legal to drive in a built up area with HIGH BEAM :eek::eek::eek: because of poor street lighting. :mad:

When I changed my licence back to Qld after many years in NSW, I was almost failed on that question:mad:

cheers

The rule was changed quite some years ago and I thought it was to bring all states into line. You may now use high beams anywhere, but not within 200 metres of any other vehicle, or in such a way as to annoy the driver of any other vehicle, or as to interfere with the safe operation of any other vehicle.

Bear in mind the annoyed driver may be a walloper having a bad day, or a pedantic mermaid. Fine, points, and maybe a defect notice if they have a look around your vehicle.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

That's interesting, Diana.

I have cataracts (early stages) in both eyes but one of them does affect my reading. I find glare is a problem. I put off having them done after having had 3 operations for a detached retina I'm not keen on eye surgeons playing with my eyes. :(

Ron
Ron

Becoming affected by glare where you weren't before, is one of the first signs that cataracts are forming. If you don't know, the lens in the eye is like an onion that forms the wrong way around. The inner layers are the oldest and with age go opaque.

Yes there is always a risk with any surgery, but not being able to see is debilitating. It is the lesser of 2 evils, when that comes have the cataracts done.

Diana

[100I]

Ron

Becoming affected by glare where you weren't before, is one of the first signs that cataracts are forming. If you don't know, the lens in the eye is like an onion that forms the wrong way around. The inner layers are the oldest and with age go opaque.

Yes there is always a risk with any surgery, but not being able to see is debilitating. It is the lesser of 2 evils, when that comes have the cataracts done.

Diana

Someone told me years ago that the eye forms a new layer or skin every 4hrs. That is why it's important to get foreign objects removed asap. In fact one of my techs had a spot in his eye just last week and although he insisted he was ok I instructed him to leave work immediately to have it looked at, you just can't risk it.

[incisor]

the Qld road rules re high beam usage

Using headlights on high-beam
(1) The driver of a vehicle must not use the vehicle’s headlights
on high-beam, or allow the vehicle’s headlights to be used on
high-beam, if the driver is driving—
(a) less than 200m behind a vehicle travelling in the same
direction as the driver; or
(b) less than 200m from an oncoming vehicle.
Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.
(2) However, if the driver is overtaking a vehicle, the driver may
briefly switch the headlights from low-beam to high-beam
immediately before the driver begins to overtake the vehicle.

[karl]

About time.

[weeds]

do fog lights actually work.....never had them fitted

[Debacle]

Their main advantage is that they dont reflect off the fog like your headlights do.
Thats why you need them wired into your parking lights so that you can drive with them on but headlights off.
I dont think you can see much further with them on, its just a bit easier on the eyes and therefore safer.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

do fog lights actually work.....never had them fitted
As John has said, you can't see much further with them, just that they don't reflect off the fog like your main lights do.

Having them down low and with the headlamps off you are able to pick up the lines on the road and the marker poles for a few metres ahead. You still have to drive much slower but it is not like the whiteout you get with headlamps turned on. You can also see the tail lights of a vehicle ahead a few seconds earlier.

Diana

[Grizzly_Adams]

do fog lights actually work.....never had them fitted

YES, when used properly.

After living and driving a few years in Switzerland you learnt the value of fog lights :BigThumb:

Yes even those stupid rear fog lights that look just like someone has their foot on the brake. I've driven in fog so thick you couldn't see 5 meters ahead.. the rule in Switzerland was you were not suppose to use your rear fog lights until you couldn't see past 2 of the markers on the side of the road - so somewhere between 20mtr and 50mtr visibility.... I've been in fog so bad the rear fog lights were the only thing you would see of the vehicle in front, and they were only 3 mtrs in front of you.... you didn't travel fast and you were concentrating a lot :) Very tiring...:(

The rule with front fog lights was that you could use them when it was foggy - but it didn't matter if you could still see several hundred mtrs down the road...

.. and yes, believe it or not I have driven in pea-soup fog in Australia when coming back from Sydney a few times... so before those of us who have not experienced fog (like most Brisbanites who haven't really travelled) we do get these conditions in Australia.

Agree though with the general sentiment expressed in this thread - I loath people with fog lights on when it's not foggy.. they're overly bright and dazzling...

[p38arover]

anything would have to be better than a torch shining out the passenger window trying to see where the road goes, in a thick fog on the way down Bulli Pass...

Yep, had a similar experience in St Marys (western Sydney) back in the Sixties. We had the front (suicide) doors open on my '38 Vauxhall looking down at the road markings.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

YES, when used properly.

After living and driving a few years in Switzerland you learnt the value of fog lights :BigThumb:

.. and yes, believe it or not I have driven in pea-soup fog in Australia when coming back from Sydney a few times... so before those of us who have not experienced fog (like most Brisbanites who haven't really travelled) we do get these conditions in Australia.

Agree though with the general sentiment expressed in this thread - I loath people with fog lights on when it's not foggy.. they're overly bright and dazzling...
Too right we get fog, one of the most common places I experience it is on Maddens Plains (where Mrs Numpty suggested) on my regular overnight trips from Sydney to Nowra.

Diana

[sclarke]

It seems that the Vics are not liked that much....lol

This week when i was in MtGambier, i was looking at the local rag and read the 20/20 column.... well the question was.....
Do SA drivers drive badly?
The answer from 5 people... all written different, but the same outcome...
No, its the Victorian's they think they own the road and the drive fast and have no respect....

I laughed at the 1st responce, but by the 5th i was thinking the Crow eaters do hate Vics.... must be because of our great weather and great scenic drives.....

I asked the chick in the cafe if Vics drive bad... She looked at me and said, they should stay in Vic.... so i promptly left my coffee and said i will then....... I had finished anyhow.. but it was great to see her smile drop.....

[incisor]

I asked the chick in the cafe if Vics drive bad... She looked at me and said, they should stay in Vic.... so i promptly left my coffee and said i will then....... I had finished anyhow.. but it was great to see her smile drop.....
pearler.....;):D

[p38arover]

No, its the Victorian's they think they own the road and they drive fast and have no respect......

Vics pee me off up here 'cos they all drive at or below the speed limit and they block traffic that wants to pass. I guess they are so worried about being pinged by a sped cameras down there, they transfer that to NSW.

Your chances of being booked for speeding in NSW are so low as to be not worth worrying about.

[Bigbjorn]

do fog lights actually work.....never had them fitted

Good ones certainly do. I always liked to have a pair on any truck that was using the New England or the Hume. Lots of fog, mist, cloud at night on these tracks. Use them without headlights in most cases. The headlights produce dazzle from their light being reflected back at you.

I have a pair of Perlux 200T's on my County. These are USA origin, of stainless steel with hardened optical glass shields over a GE 100 watt sealed beam marked "fog". They are made specifically for heavy truck use and are sturdily constructed to withstand the bouncing and shaking and vibration in this service. See Grote Industries: The First Name in Vehicle Safety Systems (http://www.grote.com).

[feral]

But why or why you need fog lights on during the day in full sunlight has got me beat

See this about reasons why.....

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/55258-driving-w-headlights.html




Like someone said.....****** lights :D

Humble opinion only and don't worry about 'Be seen, Be safe' See above.....


Agree though with the general sentiment expressed in this thread - I loath people with fog lights on when it's not foggy.. they're overly bright and dazzling...


If they are overly bright and dazzling suggests to me that they are actually driving lights and deserve the full weight of the law.

If only it was enforced.

[simonl8353]

Found this on the NRMA website

Driving Advice | Driver tips | Fog and driving lights, high beam and DRLs
The correct uses of your vehicle's lights
Not everybody knows the rules when it comes to using the various lights on modern vehicles. Can I use a fog light when it's not foggy? What's a daytime running light? When can I use high beam? We help clarify what's OK and what's not.

Fog lights vs. Driving lightsFront fog lights and driving lights are often confused. The main difference is in the light pattern.

Fog lights are designed to improve visibility of the road directly ahead of the vehicle, in fog or hazardous weather conditions that reduce visibility. The Australian Road Rules state that they are not to be used at any other time.

Front fog lights can emit either a white or yellow light. Rear fog lights must emit a red light. Rear fog lights are installed to make a vehicle more easily visible from the rear in fog, mist or hazardous conditions and should be wired independent of the car's other lights.

Fog lights have a low, flat, wide beam that is meant to illuminate the road below the fog or mist.

Switch off your fog lights once visibility is clear as they can blind other drivers.

Driving lightsDriving lights have a powerful beam that projects well down the road and are used to supplement high beam, especially when driving in country areas. They should be wired to only operate when high beam is used.

HeadlightsYou must switch on your headlights when driving between sunset and sunrise, or any other time when there is not enough daylight to be able to see a person wearing dark clothing at a distance of 100 metres.

High beamYou can use high beam lights on any road, even if there are street lights. However, you must dip your headlights to low beam when a vehicle coming toward you is within 200 metres and when driving 200 metres or less behind another vehicle.

Daytime running lightsDaytime Running Lights (DRLs) are bright, white, forward-facing lights that improve the forward conspicuousness of vehicles in the daytime. They are usually activated automatically when the engine is running. NRMA Motoring & Services commissioned a study of DRLs in 2003 which suggested that they should be standard on all vehicles as they could save lives and prevent injuries by increasing vehicle visibility.

Extreme conditionsIn extreme conditions, such as heavy rain, fog or snow, put your headlights on to low beam. High beam in fog will reflect the light, making it difficult to see. In very poor visibility, the law permits you to turn on your hazard lights to help others see you.

Now, I think the last para about using headlights in Fog is subjective (thickness of fog an all that) but the rest is hard to disagree with.

gonna have lunch now....bye

[Grizzly_Adams]

Humble opinion only and don't worry about 'Be seen, Be safe' See above.....

Not at all - FOG lights are meant (as mentioned above) to be positioned low and to shine almost directly down onto the road so as to get underneath the fog. The light reflects off the road but is once again reflected back down onto the road when it hits the fog - when there is no fog they are dazzling to other drivers because they reflect up into their eyes.


If they are overly bright and dazzling suggests to me that they are actually driving lights and deserve the full weight of the law.

Once again, see above. Driving lights - by ADR standards - CANNOT be turned on without first turning on hi-beam. I don't know about you but I can usually tell the difference between low beam and hi-beam, especially when driving lights are added to the picture.

Driving with FOG lights is not the same or in any way relevant to driving with lights on low-beam during the day time. Without the fog - day or not the light from the fog lights will reflect off the road and back into oncoming traffic, hence dazzling them.

Also as mentioned previously proper foglights should be a higher intensity - this comes back to the way they are suppose to work (reflecting off the road and the underside of the fog) so having them on without fog is (once again) dazzling and bright to other drivers.... :eek:

[feral]

Feral...we are talking about FOG lights
Daytime driving with headlights on increases visibility for sure but I'm not sure that having fog lights on increases the odds :)

FOG lights are for fog. Not daytime visibility or night driving. They are very annoying in the rear vision & side mirrors.




Found this on the NRMA website

Driving Advice | Driver tips | Fog and driving lights, high beam and DRLs
The correct uses of your vehicle's lights
.

Fog lights vs. Driving lights Front fog lights and driving lights are often confused. The main difference is in the light pattern.

Fog lights have a low, flat, wide beam that is meant to illuminate the road below the fog or mist.


From our elevated positions of a 4WD some of us are having problems with being blinded by fog lights ? Once again it suggests to me that they are not fog lights. They are driving lights.

There is a clear cut distinction between the two lights, its just that the government has lumped these together because they are too lazy to enforce existing laws.


One example of their beneficial use is when I had to go from Alice Springs to Glen Helen. Roughly 130 k's of just after dusk travelling. Had all lights on, including fogs, so I could have an earlier chance of seeing the three roo's and 1 emu that bounded out of the bush. I think we are all aware of this situation.

Ever second counts in regards to seeing a hazard and taking avoidance. I will ignore the law if it provides a safer driving situation in certain circumstances.

Of course since the government introduced this penalty and I do not like revenue raising I will comply :cool:

[Grizzly_Adams]

From our elevated positions of a 4WD some of us are having problems with being blinded by fog lights ? Once again it suggests to me that they are not fog lights. They are driving lights.


2 things for the record:

1. The majority of my driving is done in a small runabout. As often as possible I leave the 4wd for touring and 4wd'ing.

2. I am not talking about driving lights :confused:

Anyways we obviously have differing points of view... however I think it's fair to say that the majority of people are in favour of the laws and why they were introduced...:cool: as well as bringing Vic. into line with most of the rest of Australia with regards to the use of fog lights...

[feral]

2 things for the record:

1. The majority of my driving is done in a small runabout. As often as possible I leave the 4wd for touring and 4wd'ing.

2. I am not talking about driving lights :confused:

Anyways we obviously have differing points of view... however I think it's fair to say that the majority of people are in favour of the laws and why they were introduced...:cool: as well as bringing Vic. into line with most of the rest of Australia with regards to the use of fog lights...


Most definetly.......

There are mainly two reasons why I started this.

A. To inform others that the Victorian rules had changed and you will be booked if you use fog lights inappropriately.

B. To me the government appears to have introduced a law that removes a safety aspect of driving a motor vehicle i.e to be seen. Obviously I'm wrong :eek:


Now for our next topic.....bullbars :o

You know that's the next thing to be banned :wasntme:


:D

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Most definetly.......

... Now for our next topic.....bullbars :o

You know that's the next thing to be banned :wasntme:

:D
Feral

Thanks for your information.

It seems that on this forum, innappropriate use of fog lights is about as popular as Harold Scruby!

I'll leave it at that.

C Ya
Diana

[Grizzly_Adams]

Most definetly.......

There are mainly two reasons why I started this.

A. To inform others that the Victorian rules had changed and you will be booked if you use fog lights inappropriately.

B. To me the government appears to have introduced a law that removes a safety aspect of driving a motor vehicle i.e to be seen. Obviously I'm wrong :eek:


Now for our next topic.....bullbars :o

You know that's the next thing to be banned :wasntme:


:D


Fair call :BigThumb:

.. but I thought the next thing we were going to ban was 35" tyres? :angel::D

[feral]

Fair call :BigThumb:

.. but I thought the next thing we were going to ban was 35" tyres? :angel::D


Blow that!!

Why don't we just ban 4WD's altogether :twisted::eek::(



:eek::eek::eek:
Another day guys, another day:Thump:

[simonl8353]

Feral,

You have definately brought this issue to a lot of AULRO dudes attention and whatever opinions we each have, I dare say you've saved a couple of us or more from a fine or worse somewhere down the line. :lock:

Thanks :D

[gruntfuttock]

The law regarding fog lights have been in for many many years in Europe. It is good to see the Vic's are on the cutting edge.

Australian roads are made differently then those in Europe, and in Europe the do dazzle you regardless of what you are driving.

If you use fog lights in normal conditions, then do you also use your rear fog light so as cars can see you better and your driving lights to see the road better in town.

Horses for courses.