Custom bullbars - legal or not

[Gooner]

Morning everyone

There is a thread running over in the Discovery forum for a Group Buy for some custom bars which Im watching closely as Im after a bar and sliders for my '97 Disco.

My question is on the legalities of custom bull-bars. I called up my insurer, GIO, and asked a very pleaant lady what their position is on custom bull-bars (ie. does not have a compliance thing). She stated very simply that as long as the car is roadworthy - it is legal and therefore insured.
By roadworthy, she said that as long as it passes a Roadworthy inspection (pink slip here in NSW) it is sweet. My Disco has airbag.

Can / does anybody dispute this? Has anybody any real world experience where their insurer has given them any grief, knocked back claims, whatever, over a custom bar?

[Blknight.aus]

If you have Airbags then you have to worry about ADR complience for the bar but thats mainly to do with the functionality of the airbags.

other than that in a nutshel its now pretty much pedestrian and collision safety related so so long as you dont go putting on pedestrian skewers or panel smashers your laughing, especially with older vehicles.

[inside]

I would be cautious as you have an airbag. Not so from a insurance point of view but how this would affect the safety of the driver if there was an accident. You could not be certain that the airbag would function as intended.

[mcrover]

As I stated in the thread......If it is not ADR compliant it is not roadworthy.

If you have a vehical with mods that make it unroad worthy then you are not insured as your insurer told you and I would also be checking the fine print in your policy rather than relying on a call centre sales person expert.

The question you should be asking more to the point is to Vicroads or what ever your local roads authority is to what will be defined as roadworthy in the state that your car is registered.

A vehical built before 1986 in vic comes under different RWC specs than later vehicals and anything with airbags need an airbag compliant bar with no exceptions to be roadworthy.

[dobbo]

Defender's are governed by different ADR's to Discovery's to a Defer or series driver may just get away with a custom bar.
The way I see it, anything with airbags is not "officially" legal with an non ADR certified bar. You give the insurance company a free way out, due to your car not legally safisfying all of the ADR's. This would then make your vehicle unroadworthy and possibly void your registration.

Hypothetically, you have just had a high speed roll on the freeway, all of your family are messed up in hospital and your friendly insuance comp says sorry claim not valid, therefore greenslip not valid either, then the roads authority says driving unregoed and uninsured car, then the police say you are being charged with........................

Before you know it you have no car, possibly no family due to the airbags not working in the collision and medical and legal debts up to your eyeballs

oh

And looking forward to a cell mate being up to your eyeballs as well.

All cause you want to look cool like Yotaman

[dullbird]

Defender's are governed by different ADR's to Discovery's to a Defer or series driver may just get away with a custom bar.
The way I see it, anything with airbags is not "officially" legal with an non ADR certified bar. You give the insurance company a free way out, due to your car not legally safisfying all of the ADR's. This would then make your vehicle unroadworthy and possibly void your registration.

Hypothetically, you have just had a high speed roll on the freeway, all of your family are messed up in hospital and your friendly insuance comp says sorry claim not valid, therefore greenslip not valid either, then the roads authority says driving unregoed and uninsured car, then the police say you are being charged with........................

Before you know it you have no car, possibly no family due to the airbags not working in the collision and medical and legal debts up to your eyeballs

oh

And looking forward to a cell mate being up to your eyeballs as well.

All cause you want to look cool like Yotaman


yeh well in that case how many of anyone that has a car over 10years old have had there airbags changed as if i'm not correct isn't that what landrover state??

so how many of you know your airbags would even go off:angel:......i dont reckon my'n would

and as far as i'm aware also its not illegal to have a bullbar on without crush cans (non airbag compliant) if your cars year is under the year where they became factory fitted NOT a factory option....

[dobbo]

yeh well in that case how many of anyone that has a car over 10years old have had there airbags changed as if i'm not correct isn't that what landrover state??


by that stage the car will be S.E.P forcefield protected. It will not be in my possession therefore it will be S.E.P;)

[81stubee]

Forgive my ignorance,

But What???? S.E.P. ???

I read a thread awhile ago that Airbag compliant bullbars are to do with Crash Pulse of the vehicle or something, I think it was on here, so will try and find it. So fitting a bullbar changes the crash pulse (rate of deformation???). So in effect a SRS Vehicle with a non-compliant bullbar hitting a tree at 20kmh could set the airbag(s) off due to the altered crash pulse. Thus injuring the occupants, not to mention whether or not they would go off in a high speed crash.

In my opinion, I would prefer to be alive and have a wrecked car than dead and have a good car. Its not so much about whether its legal or not, but would you want the risk??

However, I must admit I have not changed the Airbags in the disco even though they are over 10yrs old.

My Two Cents

Stu

[dobbo]

Forgive my ignorance,

But What???? S.E.P. ???


Stu


Someone Elses Problem

[mudmouse]

Have a look at the NSW RTA website - the links to light vehicle modifications and frontal protection (bullbar) requirements.

Mods: Basically your car has to function as the manufacturer constructed it to comply with ADR's....squashy cans, blinkers, visibility etc.

B/bars: No sharps bits forward of the profile.

That 'roadworthy' comment from the insurance company seems a bit grey for me. Try waving your pink slip at an assessor with dodgy mods to your crashed car.

[Scouse]

As just about everyone has said, technically you can only fit an Airbag Compatible bull bar.

Practically though, yours being a 1997 MY, it shouldn't affect the airbag operation. It might influence activation only by altering the crumple zone & therefore increasing deceleration which might trigger the airbags slighty earlier.

The only Discovery that would be affected is the 1995 MY as that model used crash sensors and a decelerometer.
1996 onwards only used the decelerometer to detect an accident.


Also, the 10 year rule for airbag replacement has officially been revised to 15 years. It is expected that this will be increased to 20 years soon.
Tests have been carried out on old LR airbags & none have failed yet to my knowledge.

[dullbird]

As just about everyone has said, technically you can only fit an Airbag Compatible bull bar.

Practically though, yours being a 1997 MY, it shouldn't affect the airbag operation. It might influence activation only by altering the crumple zone & therefore increasing deceleration which might trigger the airbags slighty earlier.

The only Discovery that would be affected is the 1995 MY as that model used crash sensors and a decelerometer.
1996 onwards only used the decelerometer to detect an accident.


Also, the 10 year rule for airbag replacement has officially been revised to 15 years. It is expected that this will be increased to 20 years soon.

Tests have been carried out on old LR airbags & none have failed yet to my knowledge.

this is good to know thanks scouse:)

although just thinking about it and why i edited this post didn't the disco that 5th gear crashed head on, not fire its airbag??

[p38arover]

The only Discovery that would be affected is the 1995 MY as that model used crash sensors and a decelerometer.
1996 onwards only used the decelerometer to detect an accident.

Our '95 MY Disco doesn't have airbags so I guess it doesn't have sensors, either. So I can fit a non-SRS compliant bullbar!

[Gooner]

Dullbird, Ron B, Scouse, Mudmouse, Dobbo, 81Stubee, NM, McRover and Inside, thanks for your comments.

Dobbo, its about my options, not looking like a Toyota wannabee.

As usual, I will err on the side of caution with a young family on board.
BUT, I will say that I see loads of hugely lifted 4wds with massive tyres on local roads and Im stuffed if I know how they pass their annual roadworthy inspections.

Given what everyone has said about custom stuff, what about GVM weight when heading bush. A fitted out 4WD with fridge, drawers, camping gear, the bride, kids and mutt is going to blow that to bits and yet it doesn't appear to stop people travelling.
I would of thought that would be something that an insurance company would be more 'interested' in rather than a custom bit of bar work.

Thanks all.

[mcrover]

I suppose thats true...but if you take your vehicle for its RWC, does the mechanic check if the bullbar or towbar or other accessories are ADR compliant? I don't think so

They are meant to and if they dont they are not doing their job as if you do get pinned it is then on their sholders as much as yours as if they provide what is esentually a bodgy RWC it isnt legal no matter how you look at it.

If you have an accident, does the panel beater check? I bet not...and I bet the insurance assessor doesn't either.

Again they should, it is part of their job to know what is on your car so it can then be repaired to the standard that it was before the accident yet they have to make the car RW so it the bar isnt then they cant refit it legally and if something happened after they repaired it then they can be lobbed as well as who ever provided the RWC

OK...you may be liable to be denied the claim, but you'd be unlucky. I don't know that I've seen anything in the insurance conditions, or been asked when insuring, if all accessories had ADR's
Australian 4wd insurance asked for the model and serial number of my TJM bar and Hayman reese hitch to check it's compliance mainly because I have a winch fitted

Maybe its not right to use custom stuff. But is it necessarily wrong? Yes, It isnt tested so you dont know what will happen to it in the case of an accidentsome custom stuff is just as good as the stuff that has been ADR'dId prefer to know that that has been prooven before relying on it...just as some custom stuff is downright dangerous ;)

The rules are there for a reason, they are not there just to pieve people off or just to cost people more money.

Also when the 80 series was totaled the assesor took details off the bull bar as specifically asked me where it was to do so as it had come off and was sitting at the back of the workshop.

Insurance companies will try to not pay out when ever possible if it is a reasonable sized claim (e.g. $10k+) but up to that it is chump change so they dont really bother too much I dont think.

[mcrover]

Dullbird, Ron B, Scouse, Mudmouse, Dobbo, 81Stubee, NM, McRover and Inside, thanks for your comments.

Dobbo, its about my options, not looking like a Toyota wannabee.

As usual, I will err on the side of caution with a young family on board.
BUT, I will say that I see loads of hugely lifted 4wds with massive tyres on local roads and Im stuffed if I know how they pass their annual roadworthy inspections.

Given what everyone has said about custom stuff, what about GVM weight when heading bush. A fitted out 4WD with fridge, drawers, camping gear, the bride, kids and mutt is going to blow that to bits and yet it doesn't appear to stop people travelling.
I would of thought that would be something that an insurance company would be more 'interested' in rather than a custom bit of bar work.

Thanks all.

I have known a couple of assesors over the years, none of them wtill in the job as they didnt like being mongrals looking at ways not to pay out BUT....GVM is one of the first things they look at, if the vehical is stacked to the roof with heavy stuff on the rack etc so if thats the case, get rid of the gear before the towy picks it up :D

As far as legalities goes, just because it's pink sliped doesnt mean it's RW, it just means they know someone who will write them a slip :eek:

This is a bit of a worry but it is something that will never be able to be stoped as whenever there is a rule there will always be someone who will break it.

Im not trying to be bossy posting what I have, just letting everyone know that these things are possible and should be thought of before fitting such mods.

If this isnt important to you then by all means go ahead but dont run into me.....please :p