defender baby restraint info- need feedback!

[adnic]

hi all
i like many on here have been trying to get someone at rover to explain how you fit a baby restraint legally & safely to a defender (110 in my case)

Why despite there being an ADR ruling saying that all vehicles that designate 51% of their capacity to people (eg. 5 seater defenders) and there fore are rated a MC rating(on compliance plate) have to have fitted baby restraint anchor points are there none on any of the defenders up to the new model( 2007/8).

i have taken this to the federal body who administer the ADR rules & they are also very interested in why this seems to be the case.
what i need is for some deefer owners to check to see:

1. do you have a genuine factory designated restraint anchor point?

2. does your owner manual say that you have one & where?

3. what designation( if any! mine doesn't appear to have been filled in funnily enough.) the compliance plate has stamped on it. passenger vehicles should have MC stamped into them.

if you can let me know on here i can reffer him to the info & he is talking about doing something to help us without having to pay a fortune to have engineers design & compliance something that should have been there in the first place!
__________________

[harry]

so why don't you just drill a hole and mount one?

[Blknight.aus]

there are 2 currently accpeted solutions

the first is a colapsable mount that bolts into the floor space at the back and stands up like a small tower with the restraint at the top and a brace near the bottom. The second is a bar that stretches the length of the back area

which is all well and good all around australia... unless you live in New South Wales in which case your in buerocrat central and good luck to ya.. I'll volunteer to listen to vogon poetry while you sort that one out its better for your health.

We had the debarcle of it when trying to fit alexs bar the place we were going to goto to get it installed was in NSW and flat out said nope but hinted at a place in Vic that could do it...

Turned up there and they said, nope cant do it if your vehicle has NSW rego and it doesnt already have factory anchor points fortunately I had proof of address for Vic and QLD plates on, fitted in less than 2 hours.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

We have a 05 fender and got a "crow bar" fitted to it that bolts to a few points in the back and provides three child restrain anchorages.

[adnic]

can you pass on the details of where the fitters were so i can get this sorted?

[rar110]

Mine came with the wagon body I bought.

It is a flat upside down U shape with flat plate welded at each end. The flat plate bolts to the floor. The sides of the U shape bolt to the capping. It has three anchor points.

It has never been certified.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

can you pass on the details of where the fitters were so i can get this sorted?

It was "Streetwise".. however it was done and arranged by Southside LR before we got the car.

I googled and got these guys and it might be them!

Streetwise
771 Kingsford Smith Drive
EAGLE FARM
QLD 4009 - More...
ph: 07 36336100

They are listed as a seat belt fitter which sounds like the right crowd.

[idletorque]

hi all
i like many on here have been trying to get someone at rover to explain how you fit a baby restraint legally & safely to a defender (110 in my case)

Why despite there being an ADR ruling saying that all vehicles that designate 51% of their capacity to people (eg. 5 seater defenders) and there fore are rated a MC rating(on compliance plate) have to have fitted baby restraint anchor points are there none on any of the defenders up to the new model( 2007/8).

i have taken this to the federal body who administer the ADR rules & they are also very interested in why this seems to be the case.
what i need is for some deefer owners to check to see:

1. do you have a genuine factory designated restraint anchor point?

2. does your owner manual say that you have one & where?

3. what designation( if any! mine doesn't appear to have been filled in funnily enough.) the compliance plate has stamped on it. passenger vehicles should have MC stamped into them.

if you can let me know on here i can reffer him to the info & he is talking about doing something to help us without having to pay a fortune to have engineers design & compliance something that should have been there in the first place!
__________________

My understanding is that Defenders are exempt because they are classified as commercial vehicles. The same applies to 75 Series LCs.

I had fitted professionally (when kids were young) an approved bar (tube) that fitted across the 110, at the waist line behind the rear seats, that could take up to three child restraints, was removable and would not interfere with the carrying capacity, including draw systems. These same type of bars are also fittted to people movers behind the rear most seat.

Try going to an approved child restraint fitting station (there a a number of them in Sydney, but unsure of in Brisy) and asking their advice. Stay clear of the ones that bolt to the floor, as they take up the carrying capacity.

[haggisbasher]

had one fitted in my defender. looked up the RACV site and found a fitted. Supplied bar, 2 anchorages and fitted for $350 approx. Can be awkward but is great...esp having 3 young kids.....

I'm in victoria.

Ta

Chris

[White Cedar]

Hi,
I heard today from a Brisbane based parts supplier that LR no longer supply the anchor bar for the older defenders. He did give me a screen shot (attached) of the part diagram from his catalogue so that we can see a bit more about what it looked like.
Regards,

[JDNSW]

Hi,
I heard today from a Brisbane based parts supplier that LR no longer supply the anchor bar for the older defenders. He did give me a screen shot (attached) of the part diagram from his catalogue so that we can see a bit more about what it looked like.
Regards,

I have never seen nor heard of one like that - and I suspect it may be a UK part that has never been approved in Australia. For those who may not know, Australia has unique child restraint specifications, probably more demanding than anywhere else in the world - perhaps because they were the first to get written into standards.

Of course, as usual, on top of this we have different states interpretation of what the standards mean, particularly when fitting them after manufacture.

John

[adnic]

would you believe i have asked land rover australia & even the head office in the uk & noone even mentioned they made an OME part!!!!
AArrrgghhh!
i'll bet they only just cancelled it too.
wonder if anyone has one lying around?:BigCry:

[White Cedar]

The picture posted by Bushie in his post http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/30564-child-restraints-defenders-2.html#post440767 looks like what I'm after. Does any one know a seller (Brisbane a bonus!).

Regards

[rar110]

Mine's exactly the same as in the pic posted by white cedar.

I assumed it was a good home job.

[JohnR]

Ian Kearley Automotive at Herston did ours we have three points mounted on the floor which is great for not taking up any load space. It is fully certifed (blue plate and only cost $420)

41 Butterfield St. Herston
3252 3809

Very good to deal with and all safe and legal. Took less than a day.

Cheers,

[Captain_Rightfoot]

The picture posted by Bushie in his post http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/30564-child-restraints-defenders-2.html#post440767 looks like what I'm after. Does any one know a seller (Brisbane a bonus!).

Regards

As I've said before Streetwise does them in Brisbane. They are a bit better built than that too.

[adnic]

hi rar
don't suppose you want to sell it!!!???
otherwise i am just about ready to make one.
the most "reasonable" one i have found is ...get this...$990.00 in brissy

[Captain_Rightfoot]

hi rar
don't suppose you want to sell it!!!???
otherwise i am just about ready to make one.
the most "reasonable" one i have found is ...get this...$990.00 in brissy

I'm confused? Ours was less than $300 fitted 3 years ago and included engineering approval($260 rings a bell). Why don't you get streetwise to do on for you?

[rar110]

sorry Adnic. I will need it for a few years yet.

$990 is unreal. I reckon there is about $50 (at most) in steel and about $20 to $30 in bending. The rest is cutting and welding. It's an interior accessory so epoxy paint would be fine.

I found Streetwise were good to deal with when at Tingalpa. Another option could be Vanquip. They sell seatbelts etc. so might do anchor points.

[abaddonxi]

Mobility Engineering in Hornsby, NSW is the certifier for all RTA child restraint installations in NSW. They maintain a database with installation pictures of difficult installations, including 110s.

Mobility Engineering (http://www.mobilityengineering.com.au/)

Cheers
Simon

[JDNSW]

Ian Kearley Automotive at Herston did ours we have three points mounted on the floor which is great for not taking up any load space. It is fully certifed (blue plate and only cost $420)

41 Butterfield St. Herston
3252 3809

Very good to deal with and all safe and legal. Took less than a day.

Cheers,

That is interesting - floor mounted plates, I was advised, are not legal for the 110 in NSW. See my comments above about state interpretations - it suggests that you seek a solution in your own state. (I got two pillar type fittings which cost over $600 seven years ago, which I considered very poor value considering the quality of the work).

John

[White Cedar]

As I've said before Streetwise does them in Brisbane. They are a bit better built than that too.
I tried to ring Streetwise. The phone goes through to another company, who reckon that Streetwise went out of business back in approx 2005. I'm going to try Vanquip next.

[decibelcore]

Have seen this post late, but also went through similar dramas a few months ago, I bought a defender anchor bar from
Auto Seat Conversions Pty ltd
246 Manns Rd
West Gosford
2250
NSW
All up delivered it cost me $236.50, from memory i think the boss is called Colin. I then took it to an approved fitter to be fitted!
If you would like some photos of it fitted PM me your email and i will happily send some, the only difference between mine and the one in Bushies Photo is that mine was supplied with bolts instead of using the existing fittings.
hope this helps
decibelcore

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I tried to ring Streetwise. The phone goes through to another company, who reckon that Streetwise went out of business back in approx 2005. I'm going to try Vanquip next.
Oh. Thats a shame. :(

[pooky]

i had one fitted by southside when i brought my110 in 06 it is the same as the one in bushies photo. try calling southside sales yard they should be able to help, but i will check the blue plate in the morning for the mob that certified mine.

kEV

[naradataranto]

Have seen this post late, but also went through similar dramas a few months ago, I bought a defender anchor bar from
Auto Seat Conversions Pty ltd
246 Manns Rd
West Gosford
2250
NSW
All up delivered it cost me $236.50, from memory i think the boss is called Colin. I then took it to an approved fitter to be fitted!
If you would like some photos of it fitted PM me your email and i will happily send some, the only difference between mine and the one in Bushies Photo is that mine was supplied with bolts instead of using the existing fittings.
hope this helps
decibelcore

If you could send me a few pics that would be sweet.
There is probably a good and obvious reason for this but why cant the seat belt mounting points on the floor of the 110 (94) be used.

My Volkswagen golf Hatch had mounting points on the floor factory of course so is it just hatches that allow this?:nazilock: There is some confusing and average ledgeslation out there. All I want to do is put the kids in the car and make them safe and not even gov departments can give straight answers.

[abaddonxi]

If you could send me a few pics that would be sweet.
There is probably a good and obvious reason for this but why cant the seat belt mounting points on the floor of the 110 (94) be used.

My Volkswagen golf Hatch had mounting points on the floor factory of course so is it just hatches that allow this?:nazilock: There is some confusing and average ledgeslation out there. All I want to do is put the kids in the car and make them safe and not even gov departments can give straight answers.

Have a look here
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/good-oil/57559-child-restraint-anchor-points-defender-kiddie-seats.html

The basic reason, as I understand several years after going through the whole process, is that a non-standard child restraint anchor point has fulfill one of two requirements. They either have to be so over-engineered that they will basically survive the complete destruction of the car, or they have to be stress tested.

If you put the anchor point more than 10cm from top of seat - the official number is something like that - the seat becomes part of the anchor point and who knows what it's made of; so you need to stress test.

So, the floor mount anchor points have already been tested or the manufacturer says they have, I dunno which.

Go the crab bar, at the end of the day all you want is to put your kids in the back and know that they're safe.

Cheers
Simon

[pooky]

Morning

Checked mod plate this morning and my restraint bar was fitted bt Auto Extras and their certify number is (2044). As i said in the last post southside should have the contact detials they should be able to get that bit right maybe

Kev

[White Cedar]

Hi,

I had VanQuip (Dividend St, Mansfield QLD 4122) fit a CRAB (child restraint access bar) today and it all looks very good. They sourced the item from Automotive Restraint Fitters Australia (NSW phone 02 9603 3902) and apparently it is the second last of new stock that they had. The distributor is not aware of anyone manufacturing the item any more in Australia. The item is very strongly engineered and welded - cost me a small fortune to have freighted to BNE.

I also had a good chat with Warren Tyson (workshop manager at VanQuip), who seems expertly knowledgable about restraints in all vehicles. I asked why no one was stepping in to maintain a product. He said that it cost just under $3000 to do the testing the last time that VanQuip certified a new design themselves (in QLD), implication being that there is not enough sales to warrant the setup costs. I also asked about the whole debacle about all the states being different compliance regimes. He said that this would all be changing next year, the impression I got was that there would be uniform rules coming, but he did not elaborate. He also confirmed the discussion about defender being a commercial vehicle and thus escaping the need for manufacturer preinstallled anchor points. He said that many similar multi-use 4WD, vans, utes were in the same boat.

All up the CRAB cost me $780 including freight, fitting, and modification compliance plate. Expensive, but I'm happy to get it done quickly and with the compliance cert.

Regards,

[solmanic]

I am a bit mystified by all this. We had the need on one occasion to fit our friend's baby capsule in our Defender for a trip to the airport and I followed the instructions on the unit and threaded the seatbelt through etc etc then attached the straps over the seat back to the cargo tiedown points in the rear. The setup geometry at least appeared conformed to the diagram.

Now I know that the cargo tiedown points are not rated as infant seat restraints - but come on - if the Defender is designed to have 1000kg cargo secured by them surely they would be adequate to hold a baby capsule and kid weighing 1 poofteenth of that. As far as I could make out from the entire setup, the majority of the capsule was being restrained by the regular seatbelt anyway and that's before you factor in that it was also being held from in front by the passenger's seat back.

How hard can it be for Land Rover to just get their regular cargo points modified (if necessary) and ADR approved. Surely they can afford $3000-odd to do this?

[adnic]

i agree
i will follow up a few of these and see if there is light at the end of the tunnel.
thanks to all & i will let you know the outcome.
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