TD5 Onboard Air!

[cols110]

G`day all, my onboard air set up in my 110 needs an upgrade, I have a truck air tank mounted behind my LHS rear wheel, don`t know it capacity, but it is the biggest one I could fit whilst still maintaining clearance between the rear wheel, I have it set up with a 70/100psi px switch which allows it to operate my front ARB locker(rear is detroit so I don`t need it here), apart from using it for my locker it gets a rear work out re-inflating tyres and the tank also makes easy work re-seating tyre beads easy(mainly Prado and Patrol ones).

So far they system works perfectly, but the air compressors are not up to the job, I think the 70psi start up pressure is the real killer, it trashed one of the rings on my Thomas Twin Tongue and after my last trip it has now also trashed my Viar 440p compressor, previously before installing this set up my Twin Tongue had provided 5 years of faultless service so I can`t blame the compressors, it just looks like they cannot cope with the demands of a higher pressure system.

I was almost certain of trying to fit a modded Sanden or Endless air compressor, it looks like with quite a bit of work I think I could squeeze in an 8 inch compressor by removing my idler pulley and trying to fit it there, there are 5 bolt locations to try and pick up on, but they are small bolts into an alloy housing which does worry me, I can also run a brace somewhere on the rear to help support it and hopefully run it off the engine drive belt as it will be in a similar location as the ACE pump on a DII. I looks like I will probably have to move the air cleaner to turbo duct and also turbo to intercooler pipe as well to allow room for the compressor.
My real worry is with having a heavy compressor hanging way off the side of the engine, as it would be running from the engines drive belt if this flexes a bit it might end up throwing belt, I spend a lot of time in 3rd and 4th low on the rev limiter over some pretty rough dunes from time to time in some very remote locations so I do not want to compramise on reliability at all.

It would be a lot of stuffing around getting it all mounted, but if I could do it successfully this would be the best way forward, its just if it does`nt work successfully I might be sacrificing engine reliability.

Has anyone else fitted one of these set ups on a TD5, if so any photo`s or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Now for my next option which I had not really considered until yesterday is a Warn Power Plant, I was going to fit a winch later in the year anyway, that is why I an starting to consider one of these. I have been looking at the specs or the compressor and they are very impressive and pretty well match the endless air set in every department apart from cost if I modded and older Sanden compressor, but the cost would be similar if I fitted a new Endless air, the other things that I like is I can leave my TD5 un-modded and it will work out lighter over all.

I found this real life review on it yesterday Warn Dual-Force Winch - Technical Pictures - Off-Road Magazine (http://www.off-roadweb.com/tech/0706or_warn_dual_force_winch/technical_pictures.html)

The spec are Air flow rating: 12 CFM @ 0 psi, 5 CFM @ 90 psi Max air pressure: 100 psi
which stack up again endless air very well, and it also has an internal pressure switch in its over reserviour of 70/100psi so it is designed to run at the correct pressure as my locker which is what my current compressors cannot do reliably.

If you look at the comparrision in the link above they seem to be a fraction slower than the Sanden, but only by a second or less which is neither here nor there in real life.

Has anyone seen one of these in operation or had any experience with them, if they do what they say they can this would save me a hell of a lot of stuffing around.

Approx cost in Australian dollars for the Powerplant out here in Dubai is $1580.

Sorry about the long post. :D

[discowhite]

you have found the problem im trying to sort out. after having a 9cfm york compressor fitted to my disco (v8) no arb puss is gonna cut the mustard.
i cant see an easy way of fitting a sanden to the TD5, just no room.

so im now looking at one of these
BOSS Air Compressor Land Range Rover Pajero Suzuki Jeep - eBay 4x4 Accessories, Exterior, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 24-Apr-08 23:36:34 AEST) (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/BOSS-Air-Compressor-Land-Range-Rover-Pajero-Suzuki-Jeep_W0QQitemZ220224084262QQihZ012QQcategoryZ30862 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

cheers phil

[solmanic]

Y'know, you've got to wonder about the promotional images some people do for stuff...

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/449/e48d1aa1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I mean, why the :censored: would you plonk the item on the beach, in the wet, when it's supposed to be an on-board air compressor??!!?? I hope to goodness nobody gets this one. (I mean the one on the ad - not these types generally)

[discowhite]

:D unfortunatly thats all thats left of the toyota it was attached to:twisted::twisted:

cheers phil

[solmanic]

:D unfortunatly thats all thats left of the toyota it was attached to:twisted::twisted:

...actually, it was (is) mounted on the roof... :D

[Blknight.aus]

the simple solution is to put in a small hydraulicly driven air compressor and t it in off of the power steering pump.

put it where ever the hell you want to and use the pressure in the tank to regulat bypass flow so that as pressure builds the flow to the motor is diverted past it into the return line (through a cooler if you like) slowing the compressor so that its always ticking over to maintain pressure when your using it.

other options include

replace the air con compressor and fit one of the 12v jobbies that get retrofited to some vans they have an inverter and a second battery to drive them but you get a good aircon then.

you could mess with the alternator and move the vac pump back placing a compressore between it and the alternator.

thats just a few ideas Ive eyeballed for big red over the years but the ministry of finance has said no. no money for that

[discowhite]

yep, i think i'll spend the $350 on the rusty red one:eek:

cheers phil

[Captain_Rightfoot]

:D unfortunatly thats all thats left of the toyota it was attached to:twisted::twisted:

cheers phil

That's right. If your toyota is going down the first thing you do is try and save the air compressor. The owner is out of shot trying to get the beer out while they can :)

[Disco_owner]

you have found the problem im trying to sort out. after having a 9cfm york compressor fitted to my disco (v8) no arb puss is gonna cut the mustard.
i cant see an easy way of fitting a sanden to the TD5, just no room.

so im now looking at one of these
BOSS Air Compressor Land Range Rover Pajero Suzuki Jeep - eBay 4x4 Accessories, Exterior, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 24-Apr-08 23:36:34 AEST) (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/BOSS-Air-Compressor-Land-Range-Rover-Pajero-Suzuki-Jeep_W0QQitemZ220224084262QQihZ012QQcategoryZ30862 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

cheers phil

thanks for this info Phil , I checked the info on the Grande Boss and wasn't able to see the CFM rating? any idea?

[cols110]

Thanks for that, I just found some more info on the Boss compressor on the TJM site Air Compressors (http://www.tjmgeebung.com.au/air_compressors.htm) it seems to flow 170lpm with no load and draws 35amps, so with a 35amp current draw it is in a similar class to the Twin Tonque at 33amp and Viar 440p(Bushranger Supermax) which has a max draw of 40 amps, so after frying both of these I doubt the Boss will be much better.

Yesterday I had a look at 2 different Warn compressors which were very nice Warn Industries - Air Products: WARN Air-Power SPI (http://www.warn.com/truck/aircompressors_spi.shtml)
Warn Industries - Air Products: WARN Air-Power VTC (http://www.warn.com/truck/aircompressors_vtc.shtml) the smaller one has the same compressor as the combined winch one, but the winch one flows an extra CFM at 90psi due to the slightly bigger motor, the V twin looks to be the dogs nuts of 12v compressor, I doubt anything else will come close, I did`nt get a price on the V twin but over here it would probably come in at approx $1000, as the single is about $800.

After having a look at these and the having a play with the smaller one I am really leaning towards the Warn Power plant as it do look like a very well built unit that will do everything I want with the least amount of fuss, the only thing I don`t like is the fact is looks worse than a hat full or &rseholes.

[discowhite]

thanks for this info Phil , I checked the info on the Grande Boss and wasn't able to see the CFM rating? any idea?

no idea? just a guess... and it would be something like 3-5cfm??

cheers phil

[discowhite]

Thanks for that, I just found some more info on the Boss compressor on the TJM site Air Compressors (http://www.tjmgeebung.com.au/air_compressors.htm) it seems to flow 170lpm with no load and draws 35amps, so with a 35amp current draw it is in a similar class to the Twin Tonque at 33amp and Viar 440p(Bushranger Supermax) which has a max draw of 40 amps, so after frying both of these I doubt the Boss will be much better.

Yesterday I had a look at 2 different Warn compressors which were very nice Warn Industries - Air Products: WARN Air-Power SPI (http://www.warn.com/truck/aircompressors_spi.shtml)
Warn Industries - Air Products: WARN Air-Power VTC (http://www.warn.com/truck/aircompressors_vtc.shtml) the smaller one has the same compressor as the combined winch one, but the winch one flows an extra CFM at 90psi due to the slightly bigger motor, the V twin looks to be the dogs nuts of 12v compressor, I doubt anything else will come close, I did`nt get a price on the V twin but over here it would probably come in at approx $1000, as the single is about $800.

After having a look at these and the having a play with the smaller one I am really leaning towards the Warn Power plant as it do look like a very well built unit that will do everything I want with the least amount of fuss, the only thing I don`t like is the fact is looks worse than a hat full or &rseholes.

do you run a check valve after the compressor?? if not this would be a deffinate cause of all your comp failures.

cheers phil

[cols110]

Yep got a check valve fitted and run approx 1.5m of hose between the compressor and the check valve to allow the pressure to bleed out thru the compressor and with the 1.5m of hose I thought it would be enough of a buffer to allow to allow the pressure to build up a bit more gradually but it does not seem to have done the trick.

[cols110]

OK job done, I just need to mount it and hard wire it in, it was`nt cheap at $890, but by far the easiest and least hastle to fit and I am sure it will probably have a higher output than a Sanden style compressor.

It draws around 200amps, and is rated for continious use up to 100psi so it should be absolutley perfect for what I want, with the ability to run air tools as well.

These are the spec for it.

20 CFM @ 0psi
8 CFM @ 90psi

So far I have only had a quick play with it wired up with a set of jumper leads and it is very good and a hell of a lot quieter than my other compressors as it does`nt really seem to be working very hard. It fills it`s own 1 gallon tank and shuts off in around 10seconds, so I think it will built up pressure and shut off whilst re-inflating tyres.

Looking forward to giving it a proper work out in anger. :D

http://www.warn.com/truck/images/1117/VTC-features.gif</B>

[Aaron]

That looks sexy.

[rovercare]

A 65psi check valve would help with compressor start up;)

Would allow the compressor to build line pressure from 0 to 65psi before having to actually fill the tank:eek:

[cols110]

That looks sexy.

Thats what i think. :D


Any inline check check valve should do the trick as the pressure switch cuts in at 70psi so by rights the check valve should have opened a few psi above that, at something like 75/80psi.

When you read the manual of the Viar 440p it does say that it has a max start up pressure of 40psi, I was aware of that but thought it would be OK, the Tomas Twin Tounge has rubber/leatherish bucket type rings and it popped one of these rubber/leatherish buckets back over the piston, it obviously was not rated for this pressure for heavy use. I am trying to get two new rings/buckets so as I can still use this as a back up, because has been a great compressor over the years, it just could`nt handle the loads of the onboard air set up.

[maggsie]

Look at one of these 12/24v compressors: Westair International Air Compressors Perth Western Australia (http://www.broomewa.com/westair/) . We have been using them at work for @ 5 years or more and they cop a hammering running a grease gun.They are mounted on a receiver on the back of a ute and not protected from the elements including our northwest summers where ambient temps of +45deg are common. Mine has been in the County for the last 3 years connected to a small aluminium cylinder cycling between 80 and 105 psi.They have a duty cycle of 50%, ie. 20mins on/20 mins off. Set up and operated correctly they will last for years.
Regards
Maggsie