Fire extinguishers

[Baffle]

I went on a trip to Queen Mary falls in a convoy of 14 other 4wd's on Anzac day and up one of the steep climbs which was on the black stuff we all stopped, ahead was a mass amount of smoke billowing out of a Jackaroo towing a camper, flames under the car and a stunned driver walking around wondering what was going on. People that were not in our group had no fire extinguishers and when the call went out for one only one appeared in our group:(, all was ok, the trans had over heated and overflowed on the exhaust).In our group most had them in there (comp trucks) but not in there soft tourers, Went and bought one today, it was always in the back of my mind and had sold my other 4wd including the extinguisher only recently, i thought i had 99.9% of my bases covered when it comes to safety. I've had my landy for 6 months and for some dumb reason put off buying one saying I'll get it later:(. Lesson learnt, i have not had a reason to use one in 20 yrs of driving (with one in the cars) the day i do, .............................
You never know where,or when.or how bad
Go get one if you dont have one. $35.00

[101RRS]

On this issue - has any one had any bad experiences not being able to use their extinguishers - when the powder ones first came out they were not to be carried moving vehicles as they found the vibrations packed down the powder so much that the gas could not push it out. I guess that has been fixed now.

Thanks for this thread because it has reminded me that I have an extinguisher in my truck that has been there for many years - the guage is still reading green - I think I will buy a couple of new ones rather than trust it.

Also for any car fire that has taken hold, one standard car extinguisher will not do the job - I will be getting two much larger than standard for my truck.

Garry

[Blknight.aus]

the compacting issue has not been fixed.

it wont ever be fixed other than for the administrative solution.

once a fortnight or so take the thing out, turn it upside down and beat the bottom with a rubber mallet while you hold onto the extinquisher with your non master hand.

bouncing it against a tyre also work.


also be warey of them chafing through or puncturing while in the vehicle thats kind of messy.

[sschmez]

the compacting issue has not been fixed.


Mine gets moved about in the back of the Disco.
I don't use the mounting bracket.

Everytime(?) I pack, I turn it over, end to end/side to side .... hopefully, this will ensure the powder is not hard packed and it'll be ready for use anytime.

Stevo

[Xavie]

Thanks for this thread. I'll research over the next few days and pick one or two up. I've been meaning too but .... well you know the story it just don't happen!

Xav

[Blknight.aus]

Not securing them is what leads to rub throughs, so long as the paint isnt damaged tho your laughing

[harry]

it is a rule of our club that each car has an extinguisher, for that very reason.
you never know when you may need it.
we had mine out at levuka some time back when an alternator decided to fry itself, in nath's car [i think] however we managed to defuse the situation without using it.

it's a shame we can't use the crappy automotive ones in aircraft, just bought a new 1.5 kg extinguisher for an aircraft last week $560.00 thank you very much!!!!!!!

[Outlaw]

Always good to have a reminder... an extinguisher is a minimum requirement for our club members along with a firstaid kit and a few other essential items ;)

[Xavie]

What size should I be considering? Should I go for 2 rather then one?

Xav

[Bushie]

Mine gets moved about in the back of the Disco.
I don't use the mounting bracket.

Everytime(?) I pack, I turn it over, end to end/side to side .... hopefully, this will ensure the powder is not hard packed and it'll be ready for use anytime.

Stevo

I can remember an extinguisher falling out of a bracket in an old 2A tray back and going off behind the seat :eek:

1kg of DCP make a hell of a mess and its very hard to see :o:o

Ideally you need the DCP, and a water extinguisher for cooling, if you really want to have a chance.


Martyn

[Blknight.aus]

I carry 2 of the 1kg dry chem jobbies you can buy from st johns and the like.

they can put out a hell of a fire if used correctly and to give you a comparison

the M113A1 carries 1 1kg and 1 2kg dry chem (along with the co2 bottle for the engine bay)

the Leopard carried 3 from memory

the ASLAV carries 2 1kgs and a 2kg

the Busmaster carries 3 of the 1kg rechargable jobs, 2 inside and one outside.

The reason I carry 2 is so that in the event of it being my vehicle going up If I cant get to one of them I might be able to get to the other usually one is directly behind the drivers seat on top of almost everything you can usually see it when you look through the window OR it will be just about falling out at you when you open the door.

the second one gets positiond depending on the loadout of the vehicle.

IF the passangers side rear sliding window is going to be open for the trip it will be right there where anyone can reach in and grab it.

it normally sits standing up on the ledge under the rear sear on the passanger side (exactly mirror image of where the first one goes if Im carrying a full compliment of passangers)

and IF Im set up for camping/trackworking/mechanicing it will be right at the back doordirectly under the handle to open the door.

IF Im carrying the chainsaw theres a disposable can type extiquisher and another 1kg dry chem in the chainsaw box.

[Aaron]

I have mine mounted on the back of my centre console. Its side laying horizontal, which im going to take a guess now is the wrong way to do things.

[Blknight.aus]

nope you can store them any which way you like so long as you tappy thing on a regular basis to keep the powder from settling and you hold them the right way up when you discharge them.

if you want to see the basic effect of not doing the tappy thing go grab one of those shake'n'bake pancake mix bottles (you know the ones that look like miniture milk bottles) all the contents is neatly condensed into the bottom of the bottle, turn it upside down and give it a shake then turn it right way up and you'll see its all nicely areated ready to mix.

same deal in your extinquisher but you cant see how badly its compacted.

[Aaron]

Excellent. I haven't drilled holes meaninglessly then.

[DRS]

Not to put a dampener on the dry powder ext.

Only Problem with the powder extinguishers.

The day you let one off is the day the electrical probelms begin. The powder get into all areas. This then absorbs moisture which leads to corrosion etc.

Pitty the Halon have been phased out as they were probably best.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Dave

[Treads]

Also for any car fire that has taken hold, one standard car extinguisher will not do the job



they can put out a hell of a fire if used correctly

Certainly can if applied in the right way. I've extinguished a fully involved car with a 1.5kg DCP. Even the little 0.9kg units will put out a large cabin fire. Trick is to approach from upwind, aim at the base of the fire, hit it in small bursts, & wait for the cloud of powder to settle before giving it some more. Most people panic and just use the "spray & pray" method :eek: They don't last long at all if you just hold down the handle and sweep the fire like the directions tell you.

After being to countless car fires I suppose it is easy to tell people "don't panic" :angel: But it's inportant to remember that, unless someone's trapped inside, using those extra few seconds to size up the fire and take your time to make an attack can make the difference between saving something and losing everything.

My 2 cents anyway....

[HangOver]

Pitty the Halon have been phased out as they were probably best.


I seem to remember the Halon's where not much use in confined spaces, ie it would kill you quicker than the fire ;) :D

[CraigE]

The DCP is the best general purpose option. Yes it is corrosive and damages electrical componentry, but it is a compromise.
Be very aware that 1kg extinguishers have very limited capability and will only last about 20 seconds. If the fire has hold they are pretty uselless. Usually to put out any fire of size a min 4.5kg would be needed and probablly a 9kg. But these are not practical to carry in most cars. A 1kg is better than nothing and a heap of them better again. Ideally you would carry 3 x 9kg size extinguisher, 1 x dcp, 1 x foam and 1 x CO2 but that is not even remotely practical.
At the end of the day if my car was going up I would grab out what I wanted to save and claim the insurance as it will probablly be stuffed anyway.
A 9kg will only give you 60-90 seconds in a dcp and a CO2 will only give you 30-50seconds use.

[CraigE]

I seem to remember the Halon's where not much use in confined spaces, ie it would kill you quicker than the fire ;) :D
So will CO2.
:o

[CraigE]

Certainly can if applied in the right way. I've extinguished a fully involved car with a 1.5kg DCP. Even the little 0.9kg units will put out a large cabin fire. Trick is to approach from upwind, aim at the base of the fire, hit it in small bursts, & wait for the cloud of powder to settle before giving it some more. Most people panic and just use the "spray & pray" method :eek: They don't last long at all if you just hold down the handle and sweep the fire like the directions tell you.

After being to countless car fires I suppose it is easy to tell people "don't panic" :angel: But it's inportant to remember that, unless someone's trapped inside, using those extra few seconds to size up the fire and take your time to make an attack can make the difference between saving something and losing everything.

My 2 cents anyway....
In the right hands yes, but generally I would disagree. As you said most people panic. It all depends on how much of a hold the fire has got. Once it starts in the ducting, plastics etc the are very hard to extinguish and overhaul completely. You can usually knock the main seat of the fire down with a 1kg but putting it out completely is often not possible. The trick is to attack it asap. I have seen it take 1000litre plus of water and 3% foam to control one.:o

[Treads]

I have seen it take 1000litre plus of water and 3% foam to control one.:o

Very true, when there's LPG in them it sometimes takes more than that. On a number of occasions I've had to request a tanker to back up the pump for extra water.

It also makes a big difference when we start talking about a 4wd fully laden with camping gear etc :(

[Rugrat]

What size should I be considering? Should I go for 2 rather then one?

Xav

Mate - I have 3 in my truck. 1 by the feet of driver and 1 by the feet of the passanger and one in the rear near the door. I also take them out every so often and bounce them so they dont compact. - Size???? well the bigger the better - so 1kg or 1.5 at a minimum. Dont worry about get one with the hose IMHO as the nozzle is good enough. All of mine are the 1kg size.

[Bushie]

I've extinguished a fully involved car with a 1.5kg DCP.I think this quote is a little ambitious, as has been said once the fire has a hold on plastics/rubber etc then there is no way you are going to 'extinguish' it with a couple of 1.5kg DCPs.

Martyn

[waynep]

I carry two 1Kg, like Blknight. Only coz they came as a special in a 2 pack from Bunnings. ;)
I have one mounted on the rear door, and the other in the rear cargo area. Ideally i'd like to put one up near the driver but never found a practical way to do it in a Disco. I want to cover the possible fires from camping stoves as well as the car.

Stopped at a car fire on the freeway one day. Was some sort of European sports car. Flames well underway under the bonnet. I offered my extinguisher but the guy said he had already tried 2 or 3 offered by other passers by, to no effect. Spraying the top of the bonnet was pointless and there was no way to safely open the bonnet, so we let it burn.

Fireys arrived 10 min later and doused it with POW*

Car was a total write off by that time.

So I am aware now the small extinguishers are limited in their use, although better than nothing I suppose.

(*plain old water- lots of it )

[ATH]

We saw a Nissan Navara type ute thing and camper burnt right out end to end a couple of years ago on the Kalumbaru Road.
I wouldn't have known what sort of vehicle it was if the people at Drysdale River Station hadn't told me.
Not sure if a small extinguisher would have made much difference to that fire as it was just so intense even part of the engine looked as if it'd melted. The only really recogniseable items were the gas bottles still sitting on the A frame.
I carry a 1kg and this thread has reminded me to give it a good shake up every now and again.
Hope never to be involved in a vehicle fire as once they take hold they're very difficult to stop and having seen a bloke who I'd known at school after he, or rather his body, had been tipped out of a burnt out car one night, I truly hope I never am. Horrible sight.
Alan.

[Treads]

I think this quote is a little ambitious, as has been said once the fire has a hold on plastics/rubber etc then there is no way you are going to 'extinguish' it with a couple of 1.5kg DCPs.

Martyn


Thanks Martyn, I wasn't aware that 14yrs of experience as an Urban Firefighter also made me a liar..... :censored:

[CraigE]

I have put one out with a 9kg that my ESC at the time thought there was no hope of putting out with an extinguisher. Tecnique and a lot of luck helped.
I would probablly use the word contain rather than extinguish though because of the risk of reignition.
As I said it can be done with a 1kg 1.5kg if intervention is early enough. Generally though by the time we get to car fires they have been burning 5-10 minutes sometimes longer and as the car is gone is more about containment than extinguishment at this point.
I also advise people to do a fire extinguisher course if possible and learn how to use one. If anyone in my area wants to I can run these.
Cheers
CraigE

[Blknight.aus]

on almost any vehicle a strategically applied dry chem 1kg extinguisher can beat out a fully engulfed engine compartment. (providing it hasnt defeated the firewall or consumed the fuel lines)

IF youve got a cab fire and everyone is out and the glass is still in tact your in with a fighting chance of beating one of them as well.

but most of the times Ive seen them applied they get shot at the flames that are licking out and not where it counts.

[Bushie]

Thanks Martyn, I wasn't aware that 14yrs of experience as an Urban Firefighter also made me a liar..... :censored:

I wasn't aware I was calling you a liar, it certainly wasn't my intention. I suspect our interpretations of "fully involved car" may be different.


Martyn

[Treads]

I would suggest that "fully involved" does not mean a small fire from one area of the car, however it also does not mean that the paint is already gone and all consumables are on fire. "Fully involved" means to me that a major portion of the car is alight and it will take skill or larger amounts of extinguishing agent to fight.

I apologise, should have been more specific whilst using the word "extinguish". I simply meant that I have (on a couple of occasions now) knocked down and contained a going fire in a vehicle with a small extinguisher. Both times I was onscene in a civilian capacity and managed to attack and contain a fully alight car for some time whilst waiting for the brigade to arrive. YES I quenched the flames, but NO I did not actually extinguish the total fire (however I reduced it to smouldering hot-spots with no visible flames).

As has been said by others, it is possible to knock-down and contain a fully involved vehicle fire with a small extinguisher. I assume you have some proffessional experience to put doubt on this?