Water in Diesel

[peterpam]

I had a bad experience today when our LR D3 TDV6 sounded like it was running on only 4-5 cylinders so I rang Land Rover 24 hr roadside assistance who took the D3 to the LR service in Wollongong. These guys were most helpful but the bottom line is a $9,000 repair bill which hopefully insurance will pay for. The fuel past the filter was full of water and dirt.The service guys have had a few of these lastely so beware of anything unusual and seek assistance. I don't want to say where I got the last 2 fills from except that it's in the NSW Southern Highlands and was from a long standing national brand. Apparently there is a lot of bad diesel around so stick with your regular if you can.

[Xavie]

I use to buy my fuel at Warilla servo, a Woolies one when i lived down there. I got fuel with water FOUR times. No joke. That was in about 10 fills. I wrote letters, went to the servo with samples and did all that. got laughed at a couple of times and no response on the letter front.

Also down south near burril lake it happened but the owner gave me a free fill and no damage was done to the vehicle.

I have nothing to base it on but sometimes I wonder about south coast fuel because I have been told by many people they have been screwed down there.

Sorry to hear about all your damage I hope it gets fixed for you without to much outlay.

Xav

[Disco_owner]

oh shivers , Just came back from the south coast :( hope i haven't picked up bad fuel down there...

[Disco_owner]

but then again I filled up in sydney and refilled again at Berry so i might be safe.

[kingyrules]

I know this my sound silly but shouldn't the fuel filter stop that sort of thing??
seriously cos if it don't then there should be one that does!!

[Disco3]

I haven't admitted this to many people but on my way back from Fraser Island a few months after getting my new disco I filled up my diesel with 3/4 petrol. I was on autopilot at the time and had been driving for 8 hours with 3 scrappy kids and a wife that wouldn't stop talking. Got 10 minutes down the road to stop for a kids wee break and the thing wouldn't start! Thinking it was my old disco, gave it a few pumps and it started again - but the dash lit up like a christmas tree! I immediately realised what I had done, and after a barrage of swearing got it towed to the local LR dealer. Following an anxious weekend (and a few hundred beers to dull the agony), got it back monday morning smelling seriously like petrol but otherwise perfectly fine. $700 total bill - obviously not under warranty. Have since put over 35k on it with no dramas whatsoever. thankfully my mates dont subscribe to this website. Just goes to show you how tough these engines are. and how stupid i am!
cheers

[Bigbjorn]

I know this my sound silly but shouldn't the fuel filter stop that sort of thing??
seriously cos if it don't then there should be one that does!!

There is. They are made by Racor (Raycor?).They are a fuel filter with a cyclonic separator section that works in a similar manner to Donaldson air cleaners. My opinion is that they are the best fuel filter available. Get them at any decent truck parts / diesel shop.

[johnc18]

Peter
Sorry to hear about your bad luck with water and dirt in the fuel . Hope you can sort it out with the petrol station and your insurance company so you're not out of pocket .
This could happen to any of us . I guess it's a real lucky dip every time we go into any petrol station .
What damage was done for a $ 9,000 repair bill ? Seems like a hell of a lot .
John

[rangieman]

This will happen with new fandangled technolgy diesels sorry to say , But one way i to try and avoid this is i always fill up where there is a fast fuel hose manly where trucks fill up as the turn over of diesel is greater with trucks fueling up more frequent with larger tanks than the average car or 4x4:cool:

[Blknight.aus]

Peter
Sorry to hear about your bad luck with water and dirt in the fuel . Hope you can sort it out with the petrol station and your insurance company so you're not out of pocket .
This could happen to any of us . I guess it's a real lucky dip every time we go into any petrol station .
What damage was done for a $ 9,000 repair bill ? Seems like a hell of a lot .
John

you could easily chalk that up buying a new set of injectors, fuel pump filter, replacement lines and pressure regulator then the labour to fit them all.

which is pretty much what Id reccomend if I was in doubt as to the condition of the injectors/pump if Id had one come in shut down from ingesting water into the fuel system in sufficient quantities to stop it.

[kingyrules]

This will happen with new fandangled technolgy diesels sorry to say , But one way i to try and avoid this is i always fill up where there is a fast fuel hose manly where trucks fill up as the turn over of diesel is greater with trucks fueling up more frequent with larger tanks than the average car or 4x4:cool:



good point, as well if they bugger up a $30,000+ engine most transport Co's can afford to take the servo to court for the cost, so in there eyes its not worth the risk as a bad batch may kill 20 - 30 trucks then your talking big bucks, although i must add Hi flow diesel pumps are not recommended for cars and 4x4's minimum delivery is 10l it don't take long to pump 90lts:o

[clean32]

Not the first, and i doint think you will be the last, but out of intrest, what did the $700 cover???




I haven't admitted this to many people but on my way back from Fraser Island a few months after getting my new disco I filled up my diesel with 3/4 petrol. I was on autopilot at the time and had been driving for 8 hours with 3 scrappy kids and a wife that wouldn't stop talking. Got 10 minutes down the road to stop for a kids wee break and the thing wouldn't start! Thinking it was my old disco, gave it a few pumps and it started again - but the dash lit up like a christmas tree! I immediately realised what I had done, and after a barrage of swearing got it towed to the local LR dealer. Following an anxious weekend (and a few hundred beers to dull the agony), got it back monday morning smelling seriously like petrol but otherwise perfectly fine. $700 total bill - obviously not under warranty. Have since put over 35k on it with no dramas whatsoever. thankfully my mates dont subscribe to this website. Just goes to show you how tough these engines are. and how stupid i am!
cheers

[Disco3]

from memory it included pumping out the tank, flushing, a new filter and computer reset.

[p38arover]

the bottom line is a $9,000 repair bill which hopefully insurance will pay for. The fuel past the filter was full of water and dirt..

That's frightening. I hope the insurance company will cover that. i must admit I didn't think insurance covered such stuff.

Doesn't a filter stop dirt? I suppose it must have been very fine.

[Blknight.aus]

only to a certain point, once they become chokkas they can become perforated.

[garryc]

There is. They are made by Racor (Raycor?).They are a fuel filter with a cyclonic separator section that works in a similar manner to Donaldson air cleaners. My opinion is that they are the best fuel filter available. Get them at any decent truck parts / diesel shop.

Has anyone fitted a Racor to the D3? After a bad experience some years ago with my 300 Tdi which had to have a pump rebuild and new injectors I worry about the D3 as the filter does not have a water sensor. :o Where would you put a Racor in the D3 :confused:

[peterpam]

I have now heard back from the insurers and they will cover the cost, less my excess of course, of the repairs. This is a great relief and as not all insurers will do this my advice to everyone is to check your insurance and make changes if your'e not covered because I keep getting the feedback that the fuel in Australia is not good. I am going to look at improving the filtering but have to be careful in regards to warranty issues. I think the fact there is no warning light is something Land Rover should address.

[Jackaroo]

I have now heard back from the insurers and they will cover the cost, less my excess of course, of the repairs. This is a great relief and as not all insurers will do this my advice to everyone is to check your insurance and make changes if your'e not covered because I keep getting the feedback that the fuel in Australia is not good. I am going to look at improving the filtering but have to be careful in regards to warranty issues. I think the fact there is no warning light is something Land Rover should address.
G'day Peter,
I have been told a number of times that if you fill-up by mistake with unleaded fuel into a diesel rig or if you get a tank full of water, comprehensive insurance will pay for the 'huge' damage/repair bill?
The question I have is which insurance companies will foot this bill? I have read through the policies from Suncorp, Allianz and now the new one from Comminsure and none of these specifically refer to paying for mechanical repairs due to crook fuel. I have not contacted any of these organizations to check if they actually do pay, just that the policy details book accompanying the renewal policies does spell out that they do not pay for mechanical/computer repair or replacements.
Can you please let us know which insurance company has footed your bill?

Regards,
Jackaroo

[peterpam]

Hi Jackaroo,
The insurance company I'm with has recently changed it's name to A&G Insurance Services. There number is 1300 858 747 or 07 33778855. They are quite cheap but signing up takes a while on the phone as they go through an extensive process of eliminating risks on things like age etc. I was quite concerned that they didn't cover the diesel issue but I guess they now have a loyal customer. The excess is $700 which will go up. The cost of insurance for our January 08 registered 2007 LR Discovery TDV6 SE was $708/year. No doubt this will go up next time around due to this claim.

[johnc18]

Peterpam
Thanks for that info . These things are really handy to know .

Disco3
Don't beat youself around the head too much about it . We all make mistakes .
If it makes you feel any better _
A year or two back Ford won some sort of a prize for designing something so you couldn't accidentally put petrol in a diesel filler . ( obviously they didn't fit it to Discoverys )
The reason for designing this ?
Apparently an estimated two and a half thousand pommies do every year in Gt Britain .
John

[scarry]

dont worry about being stupid i have don it as well.
recently read it is a very cmmon mistake in europe ,&also read the latest rangie is going to have or does have something in the filler neck so it cant be filled with the wrong fuel.anyone know anything about this?
the only thingthat saved me was the lady at the counter at the garage said noone had used any diesel
i then paid for the fuel pushed the disco
out of the way & called a tilt tray
$200 later i picked the car up from the mechanic

[Jamo]

Apparently an estimated two and a half thousand pommies do every year in Gt Britain .
John

In fact, one of the first Technical Service Bulletin's issued for the D3 was to cover this very thing!:eek::eek:

Apparently if you realise the problem before you turn the key, you;re sweet! If you don't realise before you turn the key:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

[markd2]

hi peter

sorry to here about the bad fuel but as I live in the southern highlands I would really like to know the garage that gave you the bad fuel there aren't many some in mittagong and bowral was it on the hwy does it start with an s**** is it next to a mower place need to know mate don't want to risk my d2 if I can help it any criptic info appreciated thanks

mark

[peterpam]

Hi Mark,
You've got the right brand but it was in Moss Vale. Land Rover in Wollongong has had one customer from Moss Vale with this same problem twice. I've also heard through the grapevine that that brand does have issues. However it is a bit of a lottery.
Regards

[Bigbjorn]

good point, as well if they bugger up a $30,000+ engine most transport Co's can afford to take the servo to court for the cost, so in there eyes its not worth the risk as a bad batch may kill 20 - 30 trucks then your talking big bucks, although i must add Hi flow diesel pumps are not recommended for cars and 4x4's minimum delivery is 10l it don't take long to pump 90lts:o

Most line haul owner-drivers can't afford the bus fare to the court.

[Jackaroo]

Hi Jackaroo,
The insurance company I'm with has recently changed it's name to A&G Insurance Services. There number is 1300 858 747 or 07 33778855. They are quite cheap but signing up takes a while on the phone as they go through an extensive process of eliminating risks on things like age etc. I was quite concerned that they didn't cover the diesel issue but I guess they now have a loyal customer. The excess is $700 which will go up. The cost of insurance for our January 08 registered 2007 LR Discovery TDV6 SE was $708/year. No doubt this will go up next time around due to this claim.
G'day again Peter,
Many thanks for the information on your insurance company. I will follow-up with Comminsure and see if they 'meet the standard'. Will post the result after the discussion......could prove interesting?
If not, I have a ready replacement.
Thanks again.

Regards,
Jackaroo

[kingyrules]

Most line haul owner-drivers can't afford the bus fare to the court.


LOL thats true I've worked for some of those guys!!!
but its funny how they find the cash to sue when there might be a big out of court payday at the end.
jokes on them they went bust.
:(so many times my pockets have been bare),

[markd2]

thanks peter for the heads up on the garage that sold you the fuel or is it water??? . I don't go to that garage thank god actually I stay away from that brand as I have found it to be the most expensive and this was confirmed today in the paper something to do with the supermarkets taking over garages and there shopper dockets.

cheers mark

[RoadWarrior]

Racor filters. Definitely. Mounting one permanently inline is definitely worth it. You can buy them at most marine stores. Get the kind that has a refillable cartridge - they cost more initially but you'll save money on filters in the long run. They filter the fuel while separating the water out - then periodically you just unscrew the bottom and let the water out, as water sinks to the bottom. You'll be able to see the water through the clear plastic bottom. If you don't want to mount one permanently, you can buy a cheap fuel pump and some extra hose and mount it to a board. Drop the input hose as far to the bottom of the tank as possible, suck it through the filter with the pump (always pull through the filter, not push, so you put the pump AFTER the filter in the direction of the flow). Then put the output hose back into the top of your tank. Run it a couple hours, then drive recklessly to mix it up and then do it again. These filters will also get rid of any other garbage that happens to be stuck in the tank.

[Tote]

So what would be the logistics of fitting one to a d3 which I'm assuming has an in tank pump?
Regards,
Tote

[Piddler]

Racor filters. Definitely. Mounting one permanently inline is definitely worth it. You can buy them at most marine stores. Get the kind that has a refillable cartridge - they cost more initially but you'll save money on filters in the long run. They filter the fuel while separating the water out - then periodically you just unscrew the bottom and let the water out, as water sinks to the bottom. You'll be able to see the water through the clear plastic bottom. If you don't want to mount one permanently, you can buy a cheap fuel pump and some extra hose and mount it to a board. Drop the input hose as far to the bottom of the tank as possible, suck it through the filter with the pump (always pull through the filter, not push, so you put the pump AFTER the filter in the direction of the flow). Then put the output hose back into the top of your tank. Run it a couple hours, then drive recklessly to mix it up and then do it again. These filters will also get rid of any other garbage that happens to be stuck in the tank.

Racor stuff is first rate, they are owned by Parker Hannifin you can buy at any Enzed or Parker Hydraulics distributor store. You would need some fittings which the marine shop will not have I would go to these guys direct as you may get a bit of a discount. Push them the mark up on these items is huge.

Cheers

[Tote]

In answer to my own question Racor make several filters that can be fitted to either the suction or pressure side of a pump.
http://www.engineprotectionequipment.com.au/public/catalogue/download.php?id=280&type=file
Might have to look at the feasibility of fitting one.

Regards,
tote

[peterpam]

I picked up our LR today with the new injector pump etc. $9K paid for by the insurance. Southern Classic Cars in Wollongong (LR Dealer)did a great job and returned the car running as best as it ever has and cleaned inside and out. They were very friendly and helpful. I'm going to look at additional filters however we need to be careful not to affecy the warrantee.