NEW REAR BAR / TYRE CARRIER PROJECT- another buyer wanted

[Captain HSE 4.6 2000]

Hi there I'm a RR owner ( 2000 HSE 4.6 ) trying to get some support so a new product will be produced for the P38a if several other owners are interested ? I need one other person . . . but the more, the more the price will drop.

I have been trying to source a rear tyre carrier bumper combo for the P38a and have been frustrated by the lack of aftermarket products available for my 2000 RR. I have convinced 4x4Discovery.com.au - "think outside ..." (http://www.4x4intelligence.com.au) that a demand exists among RR owners and they will commence a limited run production if other owners in Australia or over sea's prove me correct and commit to ordering a bar with what ever custom variation they want. I personally want to order a bar with a twin rear wheel carrier. I have no commercial interest in this company. I just want a stock part to be made for my vehicle rather than paying a fortune for a custom build. All the other manufacturers ARB, Kaymar etc have refused to consider manufacturing or in kaymars case even releasing details of the old design so I could have it custom built.

If members of the community jump on the band wagon the opportunity exists to have a standing stock part. Pricing on the initial build is as follows if you or anyone else are interested email me and I will send you their back A/c details.( once they have the cash for two orders they will begin fabrication) I need at least one other owner to come to the party to get my bar and dual carrier made.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[FROM www.4x4intellignce.com.au]
we will have to do a complete rear bar with the
wheel carrier. We will only start this project with a firm order and
payment for minimum of 2 bars, with or without wheel carriers.

$1240 ea. for 2-4 bars, 1190 ea. for 5 or more bars. GST included.

To add the wheel carrier and jerry holder is:
- add 100/stub axle each side = 200
- add 720 for jerry holder
- add 680 for wheel carrier

Extra 380 for lights if doing a dual carrier, as the OE lights will be
obstructed.

Freight for each bar will be $200.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you want to look at the product it will be a modified D2 bar that 4x4 intelligence already produce. ( see Rear Bar (http://www.4x4intelligence.com.au/rear_bar.htm) )

Please email me on jb_cook@mac.com or call me on the number below if you are interested.

Regards

James 0412 017 927

[p38arover]

Ripper! That's great James. I hope some members take it up. BushyTas was interested in abar.

[Captain HSE 4.6 2000]

Ron I sent you a personal email off line prior to posting this for the reasons stated in it.

Publicly I would like to thank you very much for your time and guidance.

Regards James

[RaZz0R]

its something I want.. not sure how much of a diff between my 89 & your 2000 for something like this.

Whats the time line on it?

[Captain HSE 4.6 2000]

I'm told once they press the go button about three weeks I'm sending them a deposit tonight and hope another owner will come to the party ASAP.

Please contact me and I will pass the companies details if you need a tech question answered.

Regards James

[bushytas]

Hi James
i got your email just now 5:45am i will be ringing them today and yourself to get a price as im in tassie a i think the shipping might be a bit more
Anyway thank you for emailing me also a big thanks to p38arover for adding me to the list.
ive rang arb kaymak tjm and many others with out any help from them kaymak did say that that might look at making some later on if they had people ask for them but they didnt seem to interested o well their losss a
cheers
Brendon

[p38arover]

James, something to note for the manufacturers.

Kaymar told me that they wouldn't make any more P38A rear bars becaue the Rangie wasn't accurately built (or words to that effect).

One problem I am aware of is that the holes in the bracket that bolts to the centre of the crossmember under the wheel well often didn't line up with the crossmember. If what Kaymar say is correct, then these holes might be best left undrilled until installation.

I did point out to Kaymar that the Hayman Reese towbars didn't seem to have this problem and that I thought Kaymar had a jigging problem when they welded up the bars.

That went diown like a lead balloon. :D

Oh, will these new bars have a tow hitch incorporated? From the pics of th D2 bar, it seems not.

[Captain HSE 4.6 2000]

Gentleman

Firstly I have confirmed with 4x4 intelligence that they do ship oversea's (please see email quote). So I reckon all states of Australia are good to go ! Please contact them via questions@4x4intelligence.com.au and request what custom variant you want. Secondly I will confirm what the total cost of the deluxe version is - give me a day or so but the only configerations available logically would be bar, bar and wheel, bar and wheel and jerry can holder, or what I want, bar and dual wheel carrier.

Looking at two of the above options I think while not cheap the product cost is reasonable and from the photo's appears good quality, see as follows-

a. BAR PLUS WHEEL CARRIER ( note there is no requirement for light as the factory lights aren't obstructed)
$1240 ( $1190 if others get involved quick!) BAR
$ 100 1 x stub axil
$ 680 1 x Wheel carrier
$ 200 freight in Australia ( none if your in Melbourne and can pick up)
___________________
$2220

b. BAR plus Dual WHEEL CARRIERS ( in Australia additional lights are required to meet our road rules as the factory lights will be obstructed)
$1240 ( $1190 if others get involved quick!) BAR
$ 200 2 x stub axil
$1360 2 x Wheel carrier @ $ 680
$ 380 for LED lights
$ 200 freight in Australia ( none if your in Melbourne and can pick up)
___________________
$3380

In answer to Ron questions I haven't asked them to include a tow point as the product is designed to work with an existing Hayman Reece tow point per the D2 photo's. I can't comment on manufacturing tolerances, I simply don't know. Lastly sure the design could be changed over time but common guys lets get a P38 product available in Australia as a stock item.

To those that have contacted me thankyou I'll attempt to answer but I still need another firm order to get this up and running. 4 or more and the bar price will drop to $1190. I repeat I'm not involved with this company I just want a dual bar for my P38.

Good Driving

Captain


On 30/04/2008, at 11:05 AM, Michael Samootin wrote:

James,

Yep we definitely can ship, we ship all over the world. Of course they
will need to pay for shipping. We usually ship via TNT world wide.

However for the overseas guys we ask for a 75% deposit as we've been
caught out in the past.

Cheers,

Michael Samootin

[bushytas]

Gentleman

Firstly I have confirmed with 4x4 intelligence that they do ship oversea's (please see email quote). So I reckon all states of Australia are good to go ! Please contact them via questions@4x4intelligence.com.au and request what custom variant you want. Secondly I will confirm what the total cost of the deluxe version is - give me a day or so but the only configerations available logically would be bar, bar and wheel, bar and wheel and jerry can holder, or what I want, bar and dual wheel carrier.

Looking at two of the above options I think while not cheap the product cost is reasonable and from the photo's appears good quality, see as follows-

a. BAR PLUS WHEEL CARRIER ( note there is no requirement for light as the factory lights aren't obstructed)
$1240 ( $1190 if others get involved quick!) BAR
$ 100 1 x stub axil
$ 680 1 x Wheel carrier
$ 200 freight in Australia ( none if your in Melbourne and can pick up)
___________________
$2220

b. BAR plus Dual WHEEL CARRIERS ( in Australia additional lights are required to meet our road rules as the factory lights will be obstructed)
$1240 ( $1190 if others get involved quick!) BAR
$ 200 2 x stub axil
$1360 2 x Wheel carrier @ $ 680
$ 380 for LED lights
$ 200 freight in Australia ( none if your in Melbourne and can pick up)
___________________
$3380

In answer to Ron questions I haven't asked them to include a tow point as the product is designed to work with an existing Hayman Reece tow point per the D2 photo's. I can't comment on manufacturing tolerances, I simply don't know. Lastly sure the design could be changed over time but common guys lets get a P38 product available in Australia as a stock item.

To those that have contacted me thankyou I'll attempt to answer but I still need another firm order to get this up and running. 4 or more and the bar price will drop to $1190. I repeat I'm not involved with this company I just want a dual bar for my P38.

Good Driving

Captain


On 30/04/2008, at 11:05 AM, Michael Samootin wrote:

James,

Yep we definitely can ship, we ship all over the world. Of course they
will need to pay for shipping. We usually ship via TNT world wide.

However for the overseas guys we ask for a 75% deposit as we've been
caught out in the past.

Cheers,

Michael Samootin
well i just rang hard range and hes not going to make bullbars anymore :bangin:
isnt that the way you get the money to fit your 4wd out with all the gear and now i cant get the bar i want :(

[Cap]

I know I dont have a P38, just the Classic RR, but damn thats one expensive bit of equipment. I am planning on fabricating my own bar and wheel/jerrycan carriers. I estimate about $300 in materials for the bits. I already made my own rocksliders, and its really not that difficult (yes i can arc weld).

Best of luck with it ;)

[Captain HSE 4.6 2000]

Thanks Stooge for your good wishes unfortunately us P38 owners don't have the array of aftermarket parts suppliers you classic owners have. I wish I had the skills, shed and time to knock one of these up but this is'nt an option to me and many other P38 owners. All I want is a stock part that I can bolt on which is why with no other options in Australia I'm trying to create one.

[bushytas]

Thanks Stooge for your good wishes unfortunately us P38 owners don't have the array of aftermarket parts suppliers you classic owners have. I wish I had the skills, shed and time to knock one of these up but this is'nt an option to me and many other P38 owners. All I want is a stock part that I can bolt on which is why with no other options in Australia I'm trying to create one.
plus unlike the classic we have to get everything aproved for airbag saftey.
but yes i dont have the time to make or the skills needed to build things that look any good and really who wants to fk up the look of their p38:D

[Captain HSE 4.6 2000]

The Guys at 4x4 Intelligence in Melbourne are apparently doing final measurements on a RR they borrowed in Mel and should start fabrication this week. I've paid my deposit and will keep you all informed how the final dual wheel carrier turns out and post the photo's.

If any one else wants to get on board let me know.

Regards James

[Captain HSE 4.6 2000]

Gents

I'm told the bar will be at the fabricators this week and I should get it within 2 weeks. I'm expecting CAD drawings which I will post this week so you will have some idea of what the initial version will look like. I have also had included T - Slots for highlift jacking.

Regards Captain

[p38arover]

I look forward to seeing it, Major. ;)

[bushytas]

yeah still waiting myself wouldnt mind seeing some pictures before i order

[p38arover]

Look here: http://p38arover.com/rover/p38a/pix/P38_preview.mpg

James said "Here is a copy of the CAD work that has gone to Fabrication. I have included T-slots for a high lift jack these are on the bottom of the bar on the inside of the chassis rail mounts due to engineering strength issues rather as putting them on the ends as apparently that would involve 20-30 kg of extra steel reinforcement. The pillar on the RH wheel is a antenna mount with an option to fit a light"

See below:

[RaZz0R]

I just watched that video, so will it fit to a classic RR then? if so I am inrested in bar, with rear wheel carrier & light. $$?

[bushytas]

I just watched that video, so will it fit to a classic RR then? if so I am inrested in bar, with rear wheel carrier & light. $$?

no mate only p38 from 95 too 2000

[dirtdawg]

top work, well done guys

[PaulP38a]

hi folks

has anyone on this thread recieved their bar/carrier yet? I ordered mine in mid-June and was expecting to recieve it in first week of July. The guys at the "shop" in Melb said they would be sending me some pics of the progress in early July but nothing yet. I'm starting to get a little concerned at the $1500 deposit I put down.

am I alone in this and/or are you guys getting better communications fom the "shop"?

cheers
Paul.

[rovercare]

If anyone is interested I know where there is a P38 rear bar and wheel carrier, looks to be a Kaymar?, it needs paint, $800, I'll have pics Thrusdayish

[rovercare]

Range rover P38 rear bar and wheel carrier - eBay 4x4 Accessories, Exterior, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 17-Aug-08 09:55:10 AEST) (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330261304204)

[Captain HSE 4.6 2000]

Gents its been a long project but it's finally on the car. Due to health reasons I have only followed this up in the last 3 weeks. My bar was the first off the line and was a prototype hence I had to made a few small mods to meet my needs. I had it fitted by Davis Performance Landy's (SYD) and worked out the teething problems which were communicated to 4 x 4 intel hence I think the delay for everyone else.

Chassis dimentions seem to vary car to car so some adjustment was necessary.

I relocated the plate light and number plate and trimming off the corners so as to still be able to use the hi-lift jack points. The light stand is a rework of the original design installed by davis landy's. I have also added a separate antenna mount.

I will post photo's of the entire project when complete, just the snorkel to go. . .

[Disco_owner]

Hi Captain;

I noticed that both Wheels are covering your rear lights but it looks as though 4x4 intelligence have incorporated lights ( indicator / brake / reversing lights ) in to their rear bar design , so I won't bring up the point that it may be illegal for tyre fitted to your rear wheel carrier to cover your lights :o:D

good stuff ...

[PaulP38a]

Nice one Captain - looks great. I hope mine arrives soon. I'm getting tired of carrying the spare tyre loose in the boot or not carrying it at all.

I notice that you're also running Coopers. ST or STT?

I'll be very interested to hear how you manage to get a snorkel on the P38A - another thing on my wish list.

cheers
Paul.

[Steinzy]

That looks awesome!!!! Very nice!!!!

[Captain HSE 4.6 2000]

I notice that you're also running Coopers. ST or STT?

Paul I'm running ST as I believe the SST have a lower speed rating and I was concerned about road noise. But I hear good reviews so perhaps next time. . .

[Ricey]

From my own experience, I suggest staying well away from 4x4i if they're building first runs. Michael took very little accountability for errors, blamed ATV for making my tyre carrier not fit & talked endless spin. Even though he blamed ATV for deforming the carrier with a hammer (which didn't happen) he took it back, rejigged it to suit my 4x4i bar, modified some parts & sent it back. It fitted with the bar 2nd time around but not without faults. Deal with Simon, I'd give Michael a very wide berth.

[PaulP38a]

Well, here it is. After several months of waiting and anguishing at the pain some of you blokes have had with the early bars, I got mine yesterday and had it fitted today.

It was fitted by Hume Off Road Centre (Hume, ACT) in less than 5 hours, including the electricals, some alignment adjustments and shaving 5-10mm off the rear of the bar to prevent rubbing on the body.

I guess I owe Captain and Ricey thanks for being the pioneers on this project. It seems to have paid off on my bar anyway.

I was a little disappointed that after spending $2.5k on the bar, the guys at 4x4 Intelligence couldn't throw in the 3 wheel nuts for the spare. So I still can't use the carrier until I can find some wheel nuts!! BTW: anyone know if they are 14mm or 15mm nuts?

I am happy with the result though. It looks better than I thought it would. We'll see how it holds up over the next few weeks in the sand, mud and river crossings.

Another BTW: what are the T shaped cutouts next to the tow/recovery rings for?

Cheers, Paul.

[Scouse]

Looks good Paul. Now you'll have to wash the car to match the bar, or get very dirty this weekend ;).


BTW: anyone know if they are 14mm or 15mm nuts?


Another BTW: what are the T shaped cutouts next to the tow/recovery rings for?

1. 14mm - Disco 2 are the same.
2. Hi lift jack

[PaulP38a]

Looks good Paul. Now you'll have to wash the car to match the bar, or get very dirty this weekend ;).

1. 14mm - Disco 2 are the same.
2. Hi lift jack

Thanks for the info Scott. Guess I'll be off to the shop tomorrow to get me some of those 14mm nut things so I can mount that mass of rubber and metal, thereby obstructing my rear view - can't wait! Dunno about a hi-lift jack though - they scare me.

I probably won't get it dirty this weekend but I'm doing a sand an water crossing course in a couple of weeks with the ST4WDC so it should get a good drenching then. Infact, I think I'll do a trawl of the forum to see what other's expereinces have been taking their P38A's for a swim and where to look for/plug/seal/tape leaks.

cheers, Paul.

[PaulP38a]

This is becoming a real PITA. Upon advice from the supplier I went on the hunt today for some M14 wheel nuts for the tyre carrier - mostly got vacant stares and comments like:

"most cars (read Ford, Holden, Toyota) only got 12mm threads, never heard of a 14mm";
"Range Rover? is that made by Toyota?" :twisted:I eventually found a place that had 2 M14 nuts (I need 3) and they turned out to be too small. Thiss got me thinking... so I went to Bunnings and got some M16 Gal nuts to see if they would sit on the studs... and they did. The M16 Gal nuts are a corse thread but the studs are a fine thread.

I think I've got studs to suit a RRC, Disco 1 or Defender. Shame I've got a P38A then isn't it?

So my question to the other blokes who got their bars/carriers from 4x4I recently is - am I the only one with the wrong stud size or did you come accross this problem also?

Looks like I might have to pay Mr Landrover a visit and pay through the nose for them after all.

cheers
Paul.

[p38arover]

Aren't they the same size as Toyota LC100?

[PaulP38a]

Aren't they the same size as Toyota LC100?

Hi Ron - I think the 100 series 'Cruiser has a 150mm PCD like the RRC, but dunno about the thread size. Google is not being my friend tonight... If it is 16mm, a visit to Toyota might be a cheaper option.

Any recommendations on a wheel cover for the spare? The spare is just the black steel wheel with a Cooper ST 265/70R16 on it. Not very attractive to look at. If it was the silver factory mag like the other 4 wheels I wouldn't mind... anyone got a spare on for sale?

Cheers, Paul.

[cloudy]

I was a little disappointed that after spending $2.5k on the bar, the guys at 4x4 Intelligence couldn't throw in the 3 wheel nuts for the spare.

Geez, so would I be. It does look good & it's very functional.

[Scouse]

Paul, does one of your road wheel nuts fit on the spare wheel carrier ?
I would hope that it does otherwise you won't be able to fit an alloy wheel to the carrier (without getting nuts made to suit).

[Ricey]

X 2 what Scouse said.

Paul, one of the issues I had with the carrier was incorrect studs as well. Mine was fitted 1st with M12 and after sending the unit back for a number of reasons it came back with the correct M14 fine thread. Michael conceded personal error on this one only.

[PaulP38a]

X 2 what Scouse said.

Paul, one of the issues I had with the carrier was incorrect studs as well. Mine was fitted 1st with M12 and after sending the unit back for a number of reasons it came back with the correct M14 fine thread. Michael conceded personal error on this one only.

Hi Ricey and Scouse - I did what Scouse said and sure enough the wheel nuts off the car are too small, as expected.
I've ordered a set of 5 M16 nuts to suit a RRC, and hopefully this will do the trick to keep the steel rim spare on the carrier. Not sure if I could be bothered with the hassle of sending the carrier back to get M14 studs. May yet just get a local shop to do it if the M16 nuts don't do the trick.

Cheers, Paul.

[Scouse]

Good luck Paul.

[p38arover]

I just checked my P38A and wheel carrier.

The wheel studs are 14mm on the P38A.

Kaymar used 16mm studs on the carrier and RRC nuts for alloy wheels are used to hold the alloy spare wheel on.

(I can't find my pitch gauge to double check the pitch is metric but the OD of the stud is 16mm)

[p38arover]

Hmm, I found my UN pitch gauge and the RRC studs could be UNF. It looks like 18tpi. I'll have to pull the wheel off the carrier to check properly.

Late edit:

I've pulled the wheel off the carrier and one stud is 16mm. I'm sure it's metric. The 18 tpi thread gauge nearly fits. I can't find my metric pitch gauge. I could use a metric rule.

The other two studs are a smaller diameter and are 13tpi Unified Thread. Looks like Kaymar didn't want to spend the money on LR studs

[cloudy]

Mate, this is probably a silly question, but can't you just replace the carrier studs with something that's not out of an Indiana Jones cave?:D

Failing that, I'd got to a Fastener joint (That just deals in nuts & bolts)
When ever I strike these problems I just sit the nut on the counter & say "hit me with (4 of) these"
95% strike rate.

Good luck

[Captain HSE 4.6 2000]

Gents

Sorry to hear some of you have been through some pain with 4x4 i thought it was just me and getting the first bar built.

Mine arrived with the wrong bolts on the tyre carriers D2 i am informed so it was sent back and returned with RR thread. I bit the bullet and put factory RR wheel nuts on.

If it is any consolation my bar has survived 4 trips around the maroney loop and being blasted over corrigated roads with twin tyres on the back and is still functioning great.

Safe Travels Captain

[PaulP38a]

Gents

Mine arrived with the wrong bolts on the tyre carriers D2 i am informed so it was sent back and returned with RR thread. I bit the bullet and put factory RR wheel nuts on.

If it is any consolation my bar has survived 4 trips around the maroney loop and being blasted over corrigated roads with twin tyres on the back and is still functioning great.


Hi Captain - glad to hear your bar and carrier is holding up well. Despite my pain about the bolts/studs I've got to admit I'm pretty happy about bar and carrier overall. It's a nice looking unit (although I reckon chequer pattern "bling plates" look better on Defenders than on Rangies) and seems quite solid. The LED lights are a nice touch but I don't like the high-mount number plate bracket. Until I swap over my large "Euro style" plates for small ones, I won't be able to mount it down low like on yours.

Don't know if I'd trust the recovery points on the bar - the tow bar hitch still seems like a better idea - but the eye-hooks could be useful tie-down points.

re the bolts/studs - From what you say, it sounds like 4x4i knew about the problem a long time ago. The D2 and P38A both have 14mm studs, but the D1 and RRC had 16mm studs. Rather than sending my carrier back I just ordered some 16mm nuts for a RRC and they do the job just fine. Since my spare is a steel wheel, the big 16mm nuts are no problem and I just have a PVC wheel cover to hide the ugly black spare and the fact that I have no lock on a $300 tyre!

cheers
Paul.

[Ricey]

Oh no, I have to go through the process again! After having the 80 series whack my rear bar & carrier out of shape the insurance company has decided to get another 4x4i bar - I asked them to replace it with a Kaymar. At least this time I'm not paying a mechanic $100p/h to sort out the problems, but I'll be really surprised if 4x4i can get a bar to Sydney within 3 weeks as promised.

Captain & Paul, I agree with the bar being good & robust particularly the styling of it but did you have any of the following problems which needed to be fixed?

Hub cap on carrier to cover axle didn't have depth for grub screws
Over centre latch was dangerous to use - like a guillotine on the fingers
Axle wasn't sized correctly for the hub
Angle of 5deg had to be applied to the arm to match the bar face
Gas strut was too short to allow rear door to open fully

On a positive note, I put the sliders on by myself & had no trouble at all. They're bloody great.

[PaulP38a]

Captain & Paul, I agree with the bar being good & robust particularly the styling of it but did you have any of the following problems which needed to be fixed?

Hub cap on carrier to cover axle didn't have depth for grub screws
Over centre latch was dangerous to use - like a guillotine on the fingers
Axle wasn't sized correctly for the hub
Angle of 5deg had to be applied to the arm to match the bar face
Gas strut was too short to allow rear door to open fully



Hi Ricey - bugger about that 80 Series - I feel for you. In repsonse to your questions:
no problems with my hub cap on carrier that I can see.
latch is bloody dangerous I agree. My son got a nasty bite from it.
axle seems ok. I guess it woud have excessive movement if incorrect.
the guys who fitted it didn't mention any problem with arm.
gas strut works great and moves the carrier well clear of the door. I had a guy in an 80 Series trying to copy the design the other day for his bar/carrier.Did you get P38A sliders from 4x4i as well? If mine can be repaired after it's drowning last weekend I would like to invest in some sliders, but not before getting a snorkel :).

Cheers, Paul.

[p38arover]

If mine can be repaired after it's drowning last weekend I would like to invest in some sliders, but not before getting a snorkel :).

Uh oh! Tell us more (or have I missed the thread?).

[PaulP38a]

Uh oh! Tell us more (or have I missed the thread?).

Hi Ron - yep, sorry tale over at http://www.aulro.com/afvb/range-rover/65949-taking-p38a-rangie-swim-advice-please-4.html#post850559

I found out the hard way that a P38A may handle a bit like a boat sometimes but it doesn't float like one.

[Ricey]

Paul - terrible luck there with the swim, I had a similar incident when I drowned my disco on a driver training course as well. I had a snorkel but it was fitted very poorly and filled the airbox :(

I got my sliders from 4x4i - not sure if they make them for the P38 though. They're damn good!

[RR Beast]

Hi guys,
I know this thread is a little old now but I am looking for a rear bar for my P38 also.
I have got a front winch bar from Paul and love it but it seems that 4x4 intel and 4x4de and all the other people are no longer around.

Any suggestions where I can continue the search that you fellow P38 owners know all too well?

Kindly
Cam

[Scouse]

There's not been much around lately but a fellow in Qld is making them now:
P38 Range Rover Land Rover Rear BAR Custom Made Steel BAR Power Coated in Burleigh Waters, QLD | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/P38-Range-Rover-Land-Rover-Rear-bar-Custom-made-steel-bar-power-coated-/321413899606?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ad5c2e556)


I have no idea what they're like as I'm hanging out for my bestest mate to sell me his Kaymar bar.

[TheTree]

Hi

I finished up getting a custom bar made ...

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/196630-rear-bar-carrier-rampt-customs.html

Steve