Man dies in 4wd roll-over accident [Archive] - Australian Land Rover Owners

mcrover

11th May 2008, 08:00 PM

p38arover

11th May 2008, 08:04 PM

Wasn't the death at a Qld 4WD park a few weeks ago, where the 4WD rolled down an embankment during recovery, also thought to be partly attributable to lack of seatbelt (the driver came out the sunroof)?

weeds

11th May 2008, 08:11 PM

I dont wear my seat belt when traveling at slow speeds 4wding but as soon as I get up to a constant speed 40 to 60kmh I refit.

I dont wear it so I can actually move around and not get forced back into my seat.

I have also been in a roll over where the seat belt caused more damage than than the rest of the accident and undoing a seat belt while up side down isnt fun.

thats a little old school these days......i thought the same years ago but think a lot differant these days

this is also confirm by any of the driver training i have attended

4wd clubs that i have been involved with pretty much insist on seatbelts.....there are the odd time when getting back into your rig andit s impossible to put the seat belt on

hiline

11th May 2008, 08:12 PM

as he old saying goes.....set belts save lives ;)

harry

11th May 2008, 08:15 PM

I dont wear my seat belt when traveling at slow speeds 4wding but as soon as I get up to a constant speed 40 to 60kmh I refit.

I dont wear it so I can actually move around and not get forced back into my seat.

I have also been in a roll over where the seat belt caused more damage than than the rest of the accident and undoing a seat belt while up side down isnt fun.

getting crushed while half out the window as the roof uses you as padding probably isn't fun either, i know which i would prefer if unlucky enough to be upturned.
and i might also add - on the side of a hill the vehicle usually rolls several times - you won't be able to hang on, and stay in your seat.

Loaded

11th May 2008, 08:15 PM

I wear it at all times when driving off road or on road. Off road is more unpredictable and anything can happen at anytime.

CraigE

11th May 2008, 08:18 PM

I dont wear my seat belt when traveling at slow speeds 4wding but as soon as I get up to a constant speed 40 to 60kmh I refit.

I dont wear it so I can actually move around and not get forced back into my seat.

I have also been in a roll over where the seat belt caused more damage than than the rest of the accident and undoing a seat belt while up side down isnt fun.
I have to say your last statement is fairly naive. Yes seatbelts do cause injuries, but in all liklyhood you would have received worse injuries or worse still without one on and you could be thrown from the car. Even at low speeds I have seen people killed or badly injured in roll overs that would have survived with minor injuries if they had been wearing a seat belt.

Debacle

11th May 2008, 08:18 PM

I feel weird driving without a seat belt, like there is something missing

McDisco

11th May 2008, 08:22 PM

I feel weird driving without a seat belt, like there is something missing

Me too! And frankly, not wearing one is just...well...stupid.

Angus

460cixy

11th May 2008, 10:56 PM

snowy landys had seatbelts fited prety much from day dot same as there trucks dozers ect they work

Tombie

11th May 2008, 11:16 PM

I have to say your last statement is fairly naive. Yes seatbelts do cause injuries, but in all liklyhood you would have received worse injuries or worse still without one on and you could be thrown from the car. Even at low speeds I have seen people killed or badly injured in roll overs that would have survived with minor injuries if they had been wearing a seat belt.

I agree...

I think the specs were 10km/h to 0km/h is enough to send a passenger into the glass...

I'd believe it too...

Coming to a screaming halt at 10km/h before when I grounded on a rock locked the belt and hurt my chest.

I'd also like to point out, its easy to kiss the steering wheel in this case, and a face full of busted teeth and gums really ruins a trip.

JDNSW

12th May 2008, 05:57 AM

snowy landys had seatbelts fited prety much from day dot same as there trucks dozers ect they work

SMA fitted belts to ALL vehicles (in the very early fifties) and made it a firing offence to not wear them. The resulting statistics they collected and published were the basis for the compulsory fitting and then wearing of seat belts in Australia and later the world. The big difference from previous assessments of seat belt wearing was that it was in a controlled environment where it was certain who was wearing a belt and who wasn't. The improvement in safety was dramatic.

Worth noting was that the driving environment was largely what would now be described as off-road driving, and so very relevant to this forum.

It is also of interest to note that not one of their vehicles used a seat belt that met Australian Standards (none existed) and there was no engineering approval of any of them, and most of the installations probably would not be approved today, and there were no inertia reels etc, and many of them were two point (e.g. centre seat in Landrovers). But they still made a dramatic improvement in safety.

Both of the first two Landrovers I owned in the early sixties (1956 & 58) were ex-SMA and fitted with seat belts - although the car I had before that I had fitted with belts myself.

John

Diego Luego

12th May 2008, 01:00 PM

I can't think of a single good reason not to wear a seat belt - at any speed.

When I rolled and was left dangling from the seat belt, getting it undone was the least of my problems.

Five people in an upside down Rangie and not one of them hurt, thanks to the seatbelts.

mrapocalypse

12th May 2008, 01:07 PM

If that was a sedan at an intersection in a suburb it WOULD NOT BE NEWS. But becuase he was in a 4x4, in the bush.... Suddenly the world cares.

Get ready to defend your recreation people. I think we are the new Media targets. A million desperate Burmese just wont cut it anymore! They want to get people having fun!

I

disco2hse

12th May 2008, 01:42 PM

Seat belts are mandatory when I am driving.

I have been in a 5x barrel roll down the main highway and came away without a scratch and my passenger got a cut hand, pretty much solely due the fact we were both wearing seat belts. We were going 20k below the speed limit at the time.

In a vehicle like the series 3 it is even more important. I don't want a massive injection of bakelite and steel because I thought I could hold onto it. And LR doors aren't known for their stay-closed-ability.

Alan

XSiV

12th May 2008, 02:05 PM

I think seat belts save lives also. I wouldn't have been here if I hadn't been wearing a seatbelt when my dopy mate rolled his Nissan Patrol.

The ho har's

12th May 2008, 02:07 PM

I was doing about 50kph when the other driver hit me :o and I rolled down a 20 mtr embankment with my saftey belt on I sustained severe whip lash and it is not that hard to undo a seatbelt when you are haning upsidedown........Seatbelts do save lives.......

Mrs ho har :)

The ho har's

12th May 2008, 02:15 PM

Nasty Mrs Ho Har :( Bet you were glad to get out of that in one piece

I am still nursing the injuries :( but on the up side i did inherit a land rover to replace it. BTW the other driver was sleeping at 1pm on a Saturday :eek2: while driving.......... he has been charged

Mrs ho har

Davo

12th May 2008, 02:38 PM

Yes, I always wear a belt and always off-road, too. I've found it holds me in my seat better on the rough stuff instead of me just bouncing around. (That's only fun in company when the car is parked somewhere! :p)

DeeJay

12th May 2008, 03:18 PM

There are some hours of entertainment if you type "toyota rollover" on YouTube

29dinosaur

12th May 2008, 05:10 PM

I can't think of a single good reason not to wear a seat belt - at any speed.

When I rolled and was left dangling from the seat belt, getting it undone was the least of my problems.

Same here. Falcon ute - slow motion slide into a culvert - neither driver or passenger sustained anything more than a few cuts from glass. Staying within the vehicle and having a frame around seems pretty good to me.

stevo

12th May 2008, 06:37 PM

I always wear my belt but the odd time when you get out to check something out or get stuck etc and get back in the vehicle the belt does'nt always pull back out I will do it up as soon as possible but am aware it could go pear shaped before then.

Hymie

12th May 2008, 07:53 PM

I dont wear my seat belt when traveling at slow speeds 4wding but as soon as I get up to a constant speed 40 to 60kmh I refit.

I dropped a wheel into a Wombat hole at walking pace.
Put my head into the windscreen hard enough to break the glass.
No, I wasn't wearing a belt-but it was a great lesson.

hiline

12th May 2008, 07:57 PM

I dropped a wheel into a Wombat hole at walking pace.
Put my head into the windscreen hard enough to break the glass.
No, I wasn't wearing a belt-but it was a great lesson.

and atleast you get a second chance at that lesson ;)
many others havn't

disco2hse

13th May 2008, 04:24 AM

and atleast you get a second chance at that lesson ;)
many others havn't

Very good point.

JDNSW

13th May 2008, 05:56 AM

I have been wearing a seat belt, as have most of my family since an incident with an uncle of mine in, from memory, 1959. He was stuck in almost stationary traffic going through Gosford on the Pacific Highway in the Christmas holidays. With airconditioning unheard of he collapsed from the heat and the car hit a roadside pole at less than 10mph. He, his wife and a 20 y.o. niece in the front seat were all quite badly injured, and it was clear to everyone that seat belts (which were in the news at the time as the result of the SMA data being published) would have prevented any injuries. Over the next few years most family members fitted seat belts to their cars.

John

foz.in.oz

13th May 2008, 08:16 AM

My partner works as a theatre nurse. She used to a lot of cardiovascular work at one time. She used to say that seat belts caused serious injuries such as detached aorta's and the like and she used to refuse to wear hers saying that that caused more damage than good. That was when I pointed out to her that those people that she used to work on were the ones that got out alive albeit hurt. The ones that survived well she would never meet. Also the ones that were killed in the accident would bypass her and go straight to the morgue. After thinking a bit more about this and being introduced to spectating motor sports on the telly, I think she now understands how effective they really are at preventing our soft, fragile little bodies from being torn apart by Mr G force.

I too have had a serieous accident where I had a head on in a Series3 with a Mitsubishi Triton. 4 tonne of metal collided at a combined speed of 120kmh. The Triton's front end was ripped off. The Landy ended up laying on its passenger side. All occupants of both vehicles walked away. The only injury being the broken elbow I received. I was hung up in my seat belt. It was far easier to undo the seat belt, than it was to climb out the drivers side window with 1 elbow:D

I know from experience that they work. Motorsport doesn't use them because they are trendy. Just watch the old films of the open top cars racing in the 30's. I cringe when I see the accidents that they used to have.

George130

13th May 2008, 09:09 AM

Seatbelt debate has gone for a while now so I thought I would join in.
Yes they save lives. Yes I use mine off road.
I have been in quite a few serious accidents.
100kmh into a tree (Steering arm broke)
car crushed by articulated bus 50kmh (Lucky it was the passenger side and I was the only occupant.
los of control and spin at an estimated (Police told me that) 120km/h. This was spinning over embankments.
T boned a car when both travelling at 80kmh
Been T boned at 60kmh (Other vehicle estimated to be doing 100.
I have walked away from all accidents.
The only major injuries was concusion from the bus incident but it took 2 days to kick in properly. The others just left things like bruising.

I have had friends who have had some horiffic accidents. One their father fell asleep at the wheel and veered into the path of an oncomming semi. Engine found a 400 hundred meters away from the impact site. 2 occupants killed instantly friend broke her back as she had the lap sash belt. Other two walked away from the seen.

There are many more like the last one.
Seatbelt might restrict you but you will be glad you wore it the time it saves your life.

ATH

13th May 2008, 11:09 AM

Had a friend years ago when working at a minesite in Leonora, got as drunk as one night, jumped into his old Holden and decided to take a short cut on a road which ended in the pit!
He braked hard just before he hit the pile of rock placed in the way of those wanting to commit suicide by going over the edge of the pit, but still ended up hitting it hard at about (he thought) 30kph.
End result was one badly broken nose, badly bruised chest and his face was swollen, cut and bruised from hitting the windscreen 'cos he wasn't wearing his seatbelt.
The steering wheel was bent right round and the windscreen had a huge dent the same size as his head.
Only relatively slow speed but showed what would happen when hitting the wheel/windscreen because of not wearing the seat belt.
I think he even received a bit of "counselling" by the local coppers for his stupidity, but didn't get a ticket for anything.
Lucky lad to have not lost his life and a very sore one for a few weeks.
Alan.

foz.in.oz

13th May 2008, 12:23 PM

A little something just popped into my head.

Rear seat passengers. If the rear seat passengers do not wear seat this can be fatal for the driver too even he/she is wearing a belt.

When a vehicle gets slowed down really quickly such as by hitting something the rear passengers a thrown forwards and upwards. They have a natural tendancy to hit the roof lining and slide forwards into the back of the noggins of the front seat passengers literally banging heads together. This is not good and is a bloody good reason for being a seat belt nazi and making sure that everyone belts up. You're not just saving their lives but you could actually be saving your own.

Psimpson7

13th May 2008, 01:10 PM

Seat belts are a very very good idea....

I was invloved in an accident where someone drove into the drivers door of a Defender I was driving at 45mph at an angle of about 45degrees (I was doing about 30mph). It bloody hurt but I walked away. almost completley unhurt. Cars didnt get off so lightly. Golf that hit me had the engine pushed back into the passenger compartment and the 2 things that saved his life were the fact his car was LHD and he was wearing a seat belt.

Defender rear axle was taken off. He came through the drivers door, then underneath...

Another bad one I know of involved my brother in a works Van. A driver who was over the drink drive limit pulled out directly in front of him when he was doing 60mph (100kph) His van luckily was a car derived one as opposed to a forward control one and had both airbags and a cargo barrier.

The Van was destroyed. Roof bent, sills bent etc ... his toolboxes came forward and smashed into the barrier, breaking it free and smashing it into the back of the seat, pushing the whole lot including him into the dash. Luckily the airbag deployed and he walked away. The impact was so big that the rear doors opened if I remember correctly...

moron who casued the accident was unhurt.

Brother had some minor injuries and in all honesty was incredibly luckily not to have been seriously hurt. Road was closed for about 4 hours and there were 2 fire engines and about 10 police cars.

If you dont wear seatbelts you are plain and simply putting your life at risk. Its not big or clever.

Bit like people who ride bicycles without a helmet.

I dont feel safe driving without a belt, or riding without a helmet.

Rgds
Pete

JDNSW

13th May 2008, 05:10 PM

Seatbelt debate has gone for a while now so I thought I would join in.
Yes they save lives. Yes I use mine off road.
I have been in quite a few serious accidents.
........

Edd,
I'm not sure how long you have been driving - I've been driving, I suspect, a bit longer than you - had a licence for 49 years and been driving for almost another ten, including an awful lot of off road and long distance country driving, plus fifteen years commuting in Melbourne and a couple of years in Sydney, plus a significant amount of third world driving - always doing more than the Australian annual average - and I have never had a serious accident (but had some near misses!). Have I just been lucky compared to you?

John

George130

13th May 2008, 06:09 PM

Edd,
I'm not sure how long you have been driving - I've been driving, I suspect, a bit longer than you - had a licence for 49 years and been driving for almost another ten, including an awful lot of off road and long distance country driving, plus fifteen years commuting in Melbourne and a couple of years in Sydney, plus a significant amount of third world driving - always doing more than the Australian annual average - and I have never had a serious accident (but had some near misses!). Have I just been lucky compared to you?

John

No I had a stupid youth and bad luck. The bus was bad luck and the t bone I was teaching a friend to drive with just poor timing. The others were us being bulet proof teens.
I used to be part of the fast car scene when I was young. We would build cars up just for specific events even.