Solar Electricity - Brisbane

[Ralph1Malph]

Hi all,
As some may be aware, we have just purchased a home here in Bris.
I want to take advantage of the myriad of lean, green, energy saving schemes and rebates around so am considering solar electricity.
First thought solar hot water but we have a pool as well which we want to heat for winter use. Also the QLD Govt is soon to offer some sort of attractive buyback arrangement.
Anyone with any advice or traps or tips? Can buy seemingly good 1.5KW units for between $3-4K and 3KW units for $5-6K installed.
The house is north facing with a very usable gabled roof so should be well placed.

Ralph

[Grizzly_Adams]

I have been told that "springers (http://www.springers.com.au/default.aspx)" are a good place for advice...

[Xavie]

Interesting you should bring this up. Just over the past few days I've been researching it more although I've been considering it for a couple of years. I have to admit I have not looked into the rebate side of things and will probably leave that close to last but I figure if I were to run a gas fridge, stove and hot water heater I don't have much more to worry about as things like the laptop already charge off solar and lights are easy.

[CraigE]

A friend in Kambalda had a solar system to heat their pool and spa. Cost nothing to keep the pool at a nice temp. Good weather most of the year up there. The spa just used power to heat up to desired temp, saving a lot on heat up and standby costs.

[srowlandson]

What about Origin Energy's Systems? 132463

I do work there though :o So I am biased

[gumby190]

Lived in a house for about 10yrs that ran on solar.

Had a fuel stove to heat the water, gas fridge & 2 gas hot plates.
We had a generator for washing clothes & vacuming.

It was a good little setup in summer & we could get about 3hrs TV with 2 lights running.
Winter was a different matter, I have lost count of the amount of times I did my homework with a candle or gas lantern, quite an experience growing up in a house like that, we weren't exactly rich & when some bastard stole the generator & solar invertor we went without power for nearly 2 months.

Water was also a bit of an issue, bathed & washed a fair few times in the creek when the water tank sprung a leak.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I stayed in a house at Fraser that had a **really** good solar system. There were two families living there (it was essentially two houses) but it the installation was huge and it cost a bomb. There was a whole room of batteries. And you still had to be very careful what you did. Ie only the lights that were needed, only 1 TV, only using the washing machine in the morning (even then they normally had to run the genny when washing was done).

Everyone should live in a solar house for a bit.

[Bigbjorn]

I worked in the domestic gas industry for a while, long ago. Unless the relative price of gas has fallen and the efficiency of gas refrigerators and hot water systems have drastically improved, then you would be crazy to have them. They were bloody expensive to run. As to gas fires (room heaters) don't go there.

[wovenrovings]

So you actually already have the power connected? If so all you will need is the solar panels and the invertor that will feed back into the grid. And maybe a small set of batteries if you want power in blackouts. This is a big cost saver as you don't need a battery bank. The down side is it will take quite a while to pay off the solar panels from the power they generate.
There is plenty of places that can do quotes for a system.
My parents have a stand alone solar system, its battery bank is good for about a week in rainy weather if you are conservative on your power use. Otherwise in the sunny times he can run most things off it. The big power user is the fridge. Everything else is comparitively short duration. If you want hot water don't run it of the electricity.
One place i can think of in brissy is choice electric.
The biggest trap is people trying to sell you a system that doesn't suit your needs, go to several places.

[waynep]

I have been researching this as well, so interested to see other people's thoughts. I'm in Vic so your situation in Qld might be different.

It seems there are various rebates available for solar electricity. But to my mind it's still not attractive from a purely financial perspective.

So far i've ascertained this :
You can
(a) have a totally stand alone system ie where the solar panels charge batteries, and the batteries power devices in your house either direct 12/24V DC, or invert up to mains 240V. Using direct 12V is more efficient however all your devices/appliances would need to be 12V. The bonus of this system is you are more self reliant and could potentially disconnect yourself from the grid. ( if you had a big enough system )

Or ( b) a "feed in system" where you merely generate power and feed it into the mains grid. ( no storage batteries ). You get paid for what you feed in. You continue to take all your power from the grid as you do now, so are still at the mercy of your electricity supplier in that regard. In Victoria for anything you feed in over and above what you take out, you'll get paid a much higher rate. ( feed in tariff ). The main advantage of this system is there are no costly batteries to maintain.

Or you can have a combination of the above. ie have batteries but feed your excess into the grid. Personally I like like the thought of telling them where thay can shove it and be totally isolated from the grid ( option a ):D

There are rebates up to $8000 ( or it may be higher now ) for the initial purchase and installation of the solar panels, but it must be installed by an accredited "solar installer". This applies for both option a and b.
They reckon the break even period now with the rebates and feed in tarrif taken into account is now down to 10 years - still not good enough in my mind.

If you're just going to heat water for your pool, you'd be better off just getting a solar water heater. Making electricity from the sun, and then using it for heating is very inefficient. You might consider a solar electric system to run the pump though.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I'd be interested in one of these systems. I think I'd favour feed back into the grid as it's a lot cheaper and lower maintenance. Also this option doesn't rule out using your AC on those super hot days.

I heard the QLD govt are doing a trial where it only costs $1000 for a moderate grid connected array. It would seem their intention was to drive down the cost of these systems and if the trial goes well and it the scheme gets put to production I'll wait for that.

It has dissapeared from the web it would appear. The only reference I can find to it is here (http://www.epa.qld.gov.au/environmental_management/sustainability/energy/solar_homes_program/).

They have increased the feed in Tariff to a generous 44c/kw fed in. See here (http://www.dme.qld.gov.au/Energy/solar_feed_in_tariff.cfm).

[Xavie]

In several years when I move more rural and buy the huge block I will go with solar and wind power. Wind generators are much more cost effective then solar if they are in the right area.

Xav

[Landy110]

I know little of solar energy except that you need to get it set up by someone who knows what they are doing and do it properly. Don't take short cuts.
As for the pool heating, I know a bloke in Orange who has an indoor pool and heats it through solar tubes on the roof. If it works in Orange it'll work anywhere in QLD.
Steve.

[Ralph1Malph]

Thanks all for the advice and stories.
I should have said that I am only interested in a system that feeds into the grid.
I am stuck between a system that generates electricity for all appliances in the home, and heat the pool using other means or a system that just heats the pool (power home from grid) or a combination of the two.
I am not overly sold on the fact that return on investment will take a long, long time.
I am thinking of a smaller kw unit for the house, just enough to reduce the bill by 10% or so and separately solar heating the pool.
Anyone currently heat their pool this way? I am a sook and hate cold water, am aiming to get the pool to 28-32 deg.

Ralph

[inside]

There is a great calculator here that that takes into account your location and how this affects your solar power generation.
Climate & Weather Data for use in Renewable Energy System Design: Solar Irradiation, Wind Speed, Temperature, Humidity, Air Pressure - Energy Matters (http://www.energymatters.com.au/climate-data/)

For example, for me, if I spend $45K on a 5kw system I'll get paid $1850 dollars a year (QLD Gov pays $0.44 per kwh for solar power) and save approx $900 a year on power costs. This system would be paid off in 17 years or sooner if you take into account inflation. Would it add $45k to the value of the house? I doubt it but it would be a good selling point, a house that pays you. This would require about 36 sqm of solar panels and add about 465kg to the roof.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

There is a great calculator here that that takes into account your location and how this affects your solar power generation.
Climate & Weather Data for use in Renewable Energy System Design: Solar Irradiation, Wind Speed, Temperature, Humidity, Air Pressure - Energy Matters (http://www.energymatters.com.au/climate-data/)

For example, for me, if I spend $45K on a 5kw system I'll get paid $1850 dollars a year (QLD Gov pays 0.44c per kwh for solar power) and save approx $900 a year on power costs. This system would be paid off in 17 years or sooner if you take into account inflation. Would it add $45k to the value of the house? I doubt it but it would be a good selling point, a house that pays you. This would require about 36 sqm of solar panels and add about 465kg to the roof.

The QLD government program I mentioned above were trying to deliver a 1kw system (I think) for only $1000. It might be worth waiting ;)

[81stubee]

I can't see a need for having a storage system when you are connected to the grid, as the grid is effectively a "battery" anyway. Its also something that needs to be replaced every 10-20years, and they're bloody expensive.

From a sparkie's view,

In Vic you must be mindful of the costs associated with the installation. Down here we have many different power companies that can specify special regulations on the kinds of systems you can use and how they are connected. Do your research.

ANY system even just a stand-alone gen-set will involve an inspection from Energy Safe Victoria.

In my opinion don't go for an evilbay special.

I have been doing some research for the Rover Scout Chalet that's in an Isolated area ie No Power anywhere. So we need a stand-alone system, and the new inverters available now are pretty swishy. In terms of panels BP Solar are meant to be the most efficient and quality product, but pricey. We got 2X125 Watt 24v Panels for $2400 2 years ago.

Another option on large properties with a creek or stream is Micro Hydro.

My 5cents

Now back to reading about BeCM's, EAS and Slipped Liners

[303gunner]

But to my mind it's still not attractive from a purely financial perspective. They reckon the break even period now with the rebates and feed in tarrif taken into account is now down to 10 years - still not good enough in my mind.
Seems that the "It'll take me ten years to break even" argument is a bit, to state the obvious, short sighted. If you are only planning to live another 9 1/2 years or less, then Solar is not for you. If you think you might still be using electricity in 10 years, then solar makes good sense. The current life span of Solar panels is around 25 years, so you're paying for 10, get 15 free. Or you're locking in the next 25 years of electricity for a 60% discount. And of course, the 10 year break even point is calculated using today's electricity prices. Do you think there's a possibility that Electricity costs will get cheaper, or more expensive? You might end up paying for your system in 8 or even 6 years.

Do I have a Solar grid-connect system? No. But I would in a flash if I could afford it. The Fed Govt offers a rebate of $8 per watt up to 1kW for Grid Connect Solar installations, that is, a maximum of $8000. A 1.5kW system (which would cover about 75% of an "Average Household's" needs) will cost about $11,000, that is AFTER the rebate has been applied. A 2.5kW system would cover most of the Av House's requirements, but it would cost around $18,000 after the rebate.

With a grid-connect solar system, when the panels are producing more electricity than you are using, your meter will turn backwards. When you are using more than the panels make (eg nighttime), you meter turns forward. The net difference is the amount of power your supplier charges you for. As the 1.5kW system won't make all your power needs, you will still be paying a much smaller power bill. With a larger system, depending on the policies of your local electricity supplier you may or may not get paid for the excess power generated if your net solar power production is more than you use. Check with your electricity supplier regarding their policy. As others have said, Qld is paying 44c per kW/h.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I can't see a need for having a storage system when you are connected to the grid, as the grid is effectively a "battery" anyway. Its also something that needs to be replaced every 10-20years, and they're bloody expensive.

More importantly... if you generate 1k and store it in your batteries for later use.. you have one kw. With the current system in QLD if you generate 1 extra kw for storage in the grid then the govt will give you 44c, which is equivalent of the price for 3kw. So for every one you store you get three back.

That's a really great deal if you're mains connected.