Engine Swap - TD5 90 to .......LS1/6......?

[Psimpson7]

Right.... Things have been ticking over in my mind about doing an engine swap for a while.....

I thought I would ask if anyone has done it, or if people can think of any issues I may come across, currently this is only an idea but I may aswell find out all the pros and cons and any advice people can offer. I will speak to an engineer to see if it is possible to get it certified.

So.. looking on ebay in the states, you can pick up an LS1 or LS6 either low mileage with box, or new in a crate for say between 5k and 8k us dollars.

for example:

eBay Motors: 1999 Corvette C5 LS1 Engine Auto Transmission LS6 43K (item 310048605348 end time May-14-08 10:07:47 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1999-Corvette-C5-LS1-Engine-Auto-Transmission-LS6-43K_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33615QQihZ021QQitem Z310048605348QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW)

eBay Motors: 2004 Z06 LS6 Engine 405 HP W/T56 6Sp LS1 LS2 LS7 LT4 (item 260238135556 end time May-14-08 11:50:00 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2004-Z06-LS6-Engine-405-HP-W-T56-6Sp-LS1-LS2-LS7-LT4_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33615QQihZ016QQitem Z260238135556QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW)

I am thinking I would really like the later LS6 but in all honesty the LS1 with the box would adequate!:D

What gearbox would people suggest. I think an Auto would be the safest option, but will the LT230 fit on, or be made to fit the corvette auto, or how about an adaptor to fit the whole lot to the R380. (I realise that it would only last about a week but Rakeway in the UK make an unbreakable version...)

Any one got any suggestions....? I dont really want a Rover V8 as I dont really think they would offer enough improvement to justify the work...

I read Rovercare's thread about the 350 to a disco which was pretty interesting.

What other options are there? Just to add I wouldnt fit any other diesel either, except possibly a TDV8...... actually.... wonder if I can get one of those......

Cheers
Pete

[Ace]

i would talk to bruce davis performance in sydney, for the budget you are talking he could build you one hell of a rover v8 and the fitting issues wouldnt be a problem then.

an LS1 into a defender would be cool though, i reckon an auto box, but you would need to research what would fit the best, and you would need to spend som cash upgrading the rest of the drive line cause a defender drive train wasnt built to take the power of a 5.7L v8

[Psimpson7]

Thanks for the reply Ace.

I don't really want a Rover one.....

How about this:

HSV LS2 6.0 LITRE V8 ENGINE HOLDEN - OPTION FOR BOAT - eBay V8, Performance Parts, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 17-May-08 14:25:30 AEST) (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HSV-LS2-6-0-LITRE-V8-ENGINE-HOLDEN-OPTION-FOR-BOAT_W0QQitemZ190221780401QQihZ009QQcategoryZ72480 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

I have wanted a very powerful 90 for a long time! Drivetrain upgrades wouldn't be too much of an issue. At least all that stuff is available off the shelf.

Pete.

[Ace]

no worries, just thought i would mention it.

Well go for the V8 conversion then, i would be looking in Australia for a wrecked SS Commodore or something then you have everything complete and you can source all the bits you need to make the engine run like the computer etc.

Anything can be made to fit, but you might need some engineering to make the diffs etc line up and modified tailshafts etc will be needed. But i would be interested to follow the project it sounds like it will be a top rig when you are done.

[Frenchie]

Are you planning to drive it on the road? How hard would it be to get it legal?

[Psimpson7]

Frenchie,

I would want it to be legal yes. I will check with the engineer who engineered my car when I brought it over to see if there is any chance before I spend too long looking into it.

Having done a bit of research it seems that the easiest option for the mechanical bits is

LS*
T56 (6 Speed manual)
LT230

There 'seems' to be an off the shelf adaptor to bolt the LT230 to the T56.

T56 is obviously intended to be run with the LS and therefore is a straight fit and wont have any issues. If there is the conversion plate available that would make it reasonably straight forward.... propshafts and so on would obviously need to be modified.

Wonder what the possible running angles of the LS are compared to a LR engine.... may need to be dry sumped!

Pete

[Offender90]

Watching this thread with interest.

I have an injected rover 3.9 V8 in my 90 that I have to replace / rebuild soon.

I'm considering the later "4L" variant for slightly more torque at lower RPM, but am not 100% set on it yet. It's a simple bolt in job, I already have the box and there's no need to take it over the pits again, as its the same capacity as my current engine. Will follow up with Bruce Davis on other rover V8 options, but am interested to see where your project takes you.

Cheers

Bojan

[rovercare]

The supercharged 3.9 with 5 psi made 100ish RWKW a gen 3, stock, same gearing, tyres and dyno makes 170, how much do you think you'd have to do with a rover motor to get that;)

Let alone the fact that the Delco EFI is awseome and will **** on any rover build for fuel economy also:D

Shame you weren;t close, I'd be interested in offering some services:)

Only real issue is how the 90" is going to handle the 6" shorter rear tailshaft:(

[def-90]

it all sounds like fun pete, but i just wen through all this genIII/LS... thing a very short time ago.

Problems - can't get a fender engineered over 5L in QLD:(

I was going to run an auto and all autos to handle that kinda power will leave you with driveshafts the size of peanuts! unless you look at a wheelbase extension while your at it?

sorry to dampen things....

I've opted for a freshly stroked 4.4L rover and ZF, will let you know how she goes when all done, was thinking a 5L dunnydore, but then went for the ease of a bolt together jobbie, no adaptors, etc

sam

[Psimpson7]

Rovercare,

is that what it works out to be! 6" shorter lol.. great! Will need some decent prop joints!

The T56 looks to be a relatively compact box, I would have thought it wasn't any longer than the R380 but all my guesses are coming from looking at pictures on the internet:eek:

Will hopefully get a reply over night about the adaptor to the tranfer case. Hopefully that wont be too thick.

Maybe I should buy a 110 with a blown engine / box or similar and shorten that to 100" (or maybe not!)

Cheers.
Pete

[Psimpson7]

Sam,

Ah bugger!

Is that a hard and fast rule or is it dependent on the engineer in question?

Definetley be interested in your results!

Rgds
Pete

[Frenchie]

Maybe you could just bolt the output flange directly to the rear diff. :eek:

You would just need some flexible gearbox mounts. :wasntme:

[Psimpson7]

:D:o:eek::twisted:

[Psimpson7]

well if 5 litres is to be the maximum...

What about the 3rd one down on here...?!

Equicar 4x4 - land rover parts, land rover discovery parts, range rover parts, second hand car parts, freelander parts, cherokee parts, shogun parts. (http://www.equicar.co.uk/updates.htm)

Pete

[SPROVER]

Just a thought.Why dont you turbo charge a 3.9? I have done it to my 3.9(Standard)Rover SD1 on straight gas and it made 156kw at the wheels.Only runs 5 psi and still gets over 400 km out of a tank.Has heaps of torque and made all its power by 4800 rpm.:burnrubber:In the long run you wouldnt have to do no where near as much work.
Cheers
Chris

[RonMcGr]

Put a 5 litre LR TVR V8 in it.
Check out the Triumph mob in SA ( sorry cannot advertise).

The cost of a Wildcat V8 would be cheaper than sticking a heavy GM iron motor in, plus you don't need to change bell housing, mountings, etc. It will all BOLT in.

The vehicle was designed and built to house certain engines.
It is a bit like the "enlightened" who stick GM motors into Jaguars and then wonder why the driving "balance" has gone.

Stick to the real thing and you will have a fantastic engine!
Those two english guys are onto a good thing.

[def-90]

hey pete, after speaking to several engineers i got answers from 4L up to 5L, with 5L coming from my mechanics engineer.


if you supercharge/turbo it obviously it is lower, my mate can't get his 4.6L defender engineered with a blower. not sure how small you have to go before thats allowed, i will be finding out though.

find out what JE engineering and twisted performance do to their TD5's to get the big figures they pull....from memory...

still hasn't got that rumble though:twisted:

[Vern]

Put a 5 litre LR TVR V8 in it.
Check out the Triumph mob in SA ( sorry cannot advertise).

The cost of a Wildcat V8 would be cheaper than sticking a heavy GM iron motor in, plus you don't need to change bell housing, mountings, etc. It will all BOLT in.

The vehicle was designed and built to house certain engines.
It is a bit like the "enlightened" who stick GM motors into Jaguars and then wonder why the driving "balance" has gone.

Stick to the real thing and you will have a fantastic engine!
Those two english guys are onto a good thing.
I'd be guessing that the GM motors these guys are talking about i.e the Gen111 are probably no heavier than a rover v8 as they ARE all alloy.:angel:

[Psimpson7]

Sam,

Thanks for the reply. I will have a chat to 'my' engineer tommorow and see what his opinions are.

TD5 tuning seems to be pretty easy, but say 250bhp versus 450bhp is still a big difference! I also cant fit a larger intercooler as my high mount is so far back into the grill.

Vern,

Yep spot on they are all alloy, so weight shouldnt be an issue.

Ron,

As Vern says they are alloy so weight isnt an issue. Just to add the rover V8 wont bolt onto the TD5 box without some mods. (input shaft and bell housing at least)

Chris,

Its an option but the GM engines are going to be a better option if I can be allowed to fit one. Bearing in mind they are a lot bigger, and very simple, with huge tuning potential..... 600bhp+ more with forced induction, it should give you a very reliable, long lasting engine.

The thing against putting a Rover V8 in for me is that they arent that powerful, and for the amount of work to change the engine, and everything associated Iwith it I just couldnt face it without a big increase. I suppose a 5l Rover would be ok, but very very expensive, and still a hundred BHP down on a standard LS*

I would rather try and build a 'race' td5. The trouble with this is that it gets to be a short 'life' between rebuilds, which is something you wouldnt suffer from with a large capacity v8. The other thing with building very powerful modern diesels is the stupidly high injection pressures which make altering things much harder.... I mean 20000psi.. as opposed to say 70psi for a petrol!

Havent got anything against turbos or forced induction either as I have built a number of very powerul small capacity engines running forced and NA induction.... 267bhp at 10k rpm for example for a NA 4cyl 2 litre and 391bhp at 7400rpm from a longish stroke 4cyl 2 litre turbo reliabley.

Will post a thread update tomorow with the engineers comments (seems ridiculous to me I am an engineer!);)

Cheers
Pete

[PeterM]

I'd not be looking at an LS1 engine, especially if you are wanting a reliable, long lasting engine. My brother is a mechanic and did his apprenticeship with GMH. The LS1 have rather 'generous' manufacturing tolerances and GMH produced 3 different revised pistons to help address issues of piston slap within the bores as well as excessive oil consumption. The engines are expected to use a litre of oil between services.

Further, they are not a rebuildable engine. Single use only mate.

[rovercare]

I'd not be looking at an LS1 engine, especially if you are wanting a reliable, long lasting engine. My brother is a mechanic and did his apprenticeship with GMH. The LS1 have rather 'generous' manufacturing tolerances and GMH produced 3 different revised pistons to help address issues of piston slap within the bores as well as excessive oil consumption. The engines are expected to use a litre of oil between services.

Further, they are not a rebuildable engine. Single use only mate.

Pffft, still an apprentice there? I also have a mate you works at Fishermans bend with GMH in the engine dyno/tear down/test bit:p

Yep, the early LS1 used oil and rattled, actually most of them rattle, they're built loose (aids performance and emission), but they rattle for 100's of thousands of kays,

1 use only? WTF? I mean, so when I pulled mine down, had the crank machined, new bearings etc I must have been dreaming;)

Don't base or spread crap from an early model, get annoyed when someone says Land rovers are crap/enreliable/leak oil?:D

They ARE the perfect conversion, for a rover, just a shame that the crappy ZF HP22 can;t handle the HP:mad:

[rovercare]

10and a bit:1 compression, +zero deck height, awseome open heads, fantastic engine management, I pulled mine down and looked at porting heads and blueprining while it was apart.............nope, no need;)

Just a cam and springs, the standard valve springs are soft as butter:mad:

[Vern]

And they fit into a fender engine bay nice, there should be some picks on here of mine on this site somewhere when it had the gen3 sitting in it with the T700/LT95. Just got to make the rear drop truck sump clear the draglink, which it does easily if the motor is positioned back correctly.

[Bigbjorn]

It is a bit like the "enlightened" who stick GM motors into Jaguars and then wonder why the driving "balance" has gone.
.

How does putting a lightweight compact Chev. or Chrysler into a Jaguar in place the long, high, grossly overweight, and very obsolete Jaguar engine "upset the driving balance"? The US small block V8's are lighter, more compact, more powerful, sit their centre of gravity further back and lower down than that of the Jaguar engine. A proper installation needs reduced height front springs to restore the ride height because the V8's are so much lighter than the Jaguar 6. An added bonus is that front end weight is so reduced that you can if you wish disconnect the power assist from the steering system.

[def-90]

Sam,

Thanks for the reply. I will have a chat to 'my' engineer tommorow and see what his opinions are.

TD5 tuning seems to be pretty easy, but say 250bhp versus 450bhp is still a big difference! I also cant fit a larger intercooler as my high mount is so far back into the grill.

Cheers
Pete


hhmmmm i hope he says no to the LS otherwise i will cry:mad:

otherwise she'll be a gobsmacking beast:twisted:

[Psimpson7]

He was busy when I called earlier so we will have to wait until tommorow!!

Pete

[PeterM]

Pffft, still an apprentice there? I also have a mate you works at Fishermans bend with GMH in the engine dyno/tear down/test bit:p

Yep, the early LS1 used oil and rattled, actually most of them rattle, they're built loose (aids performance and emission), but they rattle for 100's of thousands of kays,

1 use only? WTF? I mean, so when I pulled mine down, had the crank machined, new bearings etc I must have been dreaming;)

Don't base or spread crap from an early model, get annoyed when someone says Land rovers are crap/enreliable/leak oil?:D

They ARE the perfect conversion, for a rover, just a shame that the crappy ZF HP22 can;t handle the HP:mad:

No, as a matter of fact he is now a road tester/service advisor with Mercedes Benz after having done a couple of years with BMW and his time as a qualified mechanic with GMH, including being one of two people within his dealership qualified to do the Gen 3 rebuilds.

When I refer to single use I mean that the bores cannot be machined, so if there is damage to the bore due to piston slap etc then it's a replacement job.

[Psimpson7]

Right,

Spoken to an engineer, and he has provisionally said.......

a maximum of 5800cc

:)

(few conditions but looks promising)

Will update a bit more lately. my laptop has failed tho so I am borrowing a colleagues) not much access at the moment

Pete

[def-90]

gggrrrrrrrrhhhh!!!!!!! Wat the...............

doh, wish i spoke to your engineer!!!!

dam, well pete now you have no choice bu to do it:twisted:

hey he may let me and a mate supercharge our 4.4 & 4.6's then? maybe we can keep up with you then;)

keep us posted bud.

[the big fist]

There's an ls1 in a defender here in Perth. It's in the latest issue of Perth Street Car, my mate and his workshop did some of the work on it. Wa Performance.
The early ls1's were pretty useless. Mine has a cam only pulls 367rwhp in a heavy vx clubby.
I think it would be a great conversion !

[Psimpson7]

Thanks for the info. I think the owner of it may be on here somewhere.

I have sort of got a bit sidetracked thinking about this at the moment......

[beforethevision]

Its all in the weight. From the govt docs:

Veh's over 1100kgs,
Max capacity in CC's = Weight in Kg's x 5

Veh's between 800Kg and 1100Kgs,
Max capacity in CC's = Weight in Kg's x 4

Forced induction of any variety changes these numbers.

Cheers!

[cal415]

sounds very interesting, anyone know any more info on the t56 to LT230 adapter ???? A GENIII 6 speed county is very tempting :)

[Psimpson7]

I did get a bit further and their isnt a t56 to lt230 adaptor avalable, although Rakeway in the UK said that it may be possible, but they hadnt had any call for it.

The t56 also wouldn't fit in a 90 as its too long. (110 would be ok) The 5th and 6th gears in the t56 are also both overdrives.

Latest thinking is

ls6
Tremec tko 600 ( 5 speed )
lt230

Adaptor is available off the shelf.

Hope this helps
Pete

[DRanged]

Hey Pete
Why not stick a late model 302 windsor motor in it. You can get a nice little Boss mustang motor from the states. 60deg V8 would be a better fit.

Justin

[long stroke]

Hey Pete
Have you thought of the lexusv8 they seem to get along pretty well...and they sound awesome!!!
Either way it will be a great build thread!!

CHEERS TIM.

[cal415]

Ive considered the lexus v8, they make good power and dont mind a turbo either :) what gearbox and transfercase would mate up to it though?


what the tremec tko 600 out of Pete? and who makes the adapter?

I was looking at the atlas transfercases as well, not sure what they are worth with shiping but they make a 4 speed transfercase with a 10.34:1 low range! that would be interesting mated up to a t56, but at nearly 3k US. Comparing that to doing LT230 reduction gears and 4.11s and theres not a huge difference in price.

[Psimpson7]

Hi Cal,

Adaptor for the TKO600 to LT230 is made by rakeway. Home Page (http://www.rakeway.co.uk) They also make an unbelivable r380 box, but it costs about as much as a house!;) here it is if you have the cash! http://www.rakeway.co.uk/gearbox's.htm

They only priced me up a box with adaptor, but I think I would source the box over here, and get them to supply just the adaptor.

Here's a bit of info on the box

TMTCET4618 - (http://www.rocketindustries.com.au/descriptions.php?partno=TMTCET4618)

It is basically a 500/600bhp motorsport transmission (depending on the 500 or 600) and is available with, as well as chevy fitments (so also Holden I think) Ford ones to suit I assume High output Falcons.

One other thing with the box is that their are a number of shifter positions available and at the moment I hadnt had time to get a tape measure and decide which one would suit best. It wouldnt be the rear positioned lever though I dont think it would be either front or centre.

I like the idea of using the LT230 as its a pretty good transfer case, and easily available for cheap spares.

Tim, Not a big fan of Japanese stuff, and I love the idea of opening the bonnet to see Corvette covers:twisted: Also as Cal said it makes it difficult with transmissions etc

Justin, I remember you suggesting this and its not a bad idea, its just that I like the Corvette covers:twisted: I also don't know much about the box options and so on

Cheers
Pete

[dhard]

You're obviously planning on digging big holes in the track with all that unnecassary horsepower so that the rest of us deisel plodders can't follow you. Would be awesome to see done as long as you can find a way of limiting throttle response for slow crawling otherwise it could very difficult to control when out at ormeau trying tackle the tough tracks.

[davew]

just found this thread, I used a 4L80E gearbox with an LT230 adaptor from Marks 4WD adaptors. There's a progress thread at the link below that covers the build from start to finish pretty much...

Forum : Yorkshire Off Road Club, Land Rover and off road club (http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/forum/viewtopic.php't=194)

There's some vids of it in action here...

YouTube - Denian SS17 Outback Challenge 2008 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgOkVX1hRBk)

and

YouTube - Poolamacca SS23 Outback Challenge 2008 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quwKyabF-2k)

Fitting the combo into a 90 will be very tight though, might need to modify the A frame mounting cross member to get the transmission brake in.

[ringtail525]

When everyone has decided on which motor he should swap into the defender, I have a question.
How much of the TD5 electrics have to be junked and what electrics have to be adapted to suit the new motor. I have a D2 TD5 and have had a gut full of injector looms, wheel sensors and 3 amigos.
I would like to swap the motor for something simpler, do away with the traction control, throw the wabco abs unit away and re-route the brake lines back onto the master cylinder just like they used to be built.

Ringtail

[def-90]

any further news pete?

[cal415]

Im still seriously considering this swap too, but i am looking at keeping it manual if i can. Anyone know if theres a LT95 to LS1 adapter available? i dont know how well the lt95 will stand up to the LS1 but could be a good option till i work out the gearbox side of things as i have found a few cheap LS1s i could get very soon.

[long stroke]

Im still seriously considering this swap too, but i am looking at keeping it manual if i can. Anyone know if theres a LT95 to LS1 adapter available? i dont know how well the lt95 will stand up to the LS1 but could be a good option till i work out the gearbox side of things as i have found a few cheap LS1s i could get very soon.

I think the lt95 would be fine, if not i think you can buy kits to strengthen them (the army ones are the stronger versions)

TIM.

[rovercare]

Im still seriously considering this swap too, but i am looking at keeping it manual if i can. Anyone know if theres a LT95 to LS1 adapter available? i dont know how well the lt95 will stand up to the LS1 but could be a good option till i work out the gearbox side of things as i have found a few cheap LS1s i could get very soon.

You mean the LT95 is the ONLY rover box that will cope:D

Its just a chev, bolt pattern is the same, need a flywheel and engine mounts as they're different pattern;)

[cal415]

Ok, so the chev adapter from the older chevs would work for ls1? so what flywheel/pressure plate/clutch plate combination would i need to use?

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

Check out Marks 4WD and see if they have an adaptor kit for it.

Marks 4wd Adaptors Home Page (http://www.marks4wd.com/)

[81stubee]

MY Mechanic looks after a 91 Classic Range, with an LS1 mated up to a either an R380 or LT77, can't remember which, probably the LT77 due to the age. He tows heaps with heavy loads, but doesn't race the car, and has seemed to stand up to that for 5 years. The conversion originally cost close to $20000:o:o

At Least a manual is easier, i'm trying to work out how to make the Ls1 talk to the P38 Gearbox, :wallbash:


Stu

[davew]

At Least a manual is easier, i'm trying to work out how to make the Ls1 talk to the P38 Gearbox, :wallbash:
Stu

Not sure if it helps but CompuShift now have a version of their ECU that controls the ZF gearbox. A lot of people using them in the UK to fit the electronic ZF onto the back of TD5s, converting from manual to auto.

Can't remember how independent the engine and gearbox ECUs are from the rest of the ECUs in the P38.

[Psimpson7]

Right, I am sort of back on this and have been looking at LS6 derivatives as they arent all the same in terms of ancillaries and overall sizes (other differences include sumps)

I have found a 2004 CTS-V engine with 42k miles on for a decent price (although it is plus shipping and I am still waiting a quote on that - eek!)

I am thinking the CTS-V version is more suited than the corvette one.
Here is the CTS: The only downside I can see to this over the Corvette one lower down is the position of the alternator. can anyone else spot any potential dramas? I wouldn't be running aircon.

Ignore the gearbox as thats the 6spd which we have already found to be too long.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/10/1000.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/10/1001.jpg

and here it the corvette. Note the much wider stance caused by the sump and also the ancliiary positions.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/10/1002.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/10/1003.jpg

images found at LS6 Dimensions (http://www.southernperformancesystems.com/dim_ls6.html)

[long stroke]

Glad to see your sticken with the idea pete!!!
I'd love to see either of those engines in a 90:twisted:

TIM.

[v8chev]

Hi all,

i am also eager to see the outcome of this, i have stumbled across this thread but i'm actually on the other side of the fence... i just chewed up my 4L60E, and i was going to replace it with a ZF gearbox. Since you guys are the only ones who are interfacing LS1's with ZF's, i figure here will be a good place to keep an eye on.

Mainly i am interested in interfacing the delco ECM computer with the electronic ZF TCM.

With any luck, i will end up with a ZF 6HP26 six speed auto in my HSV. I am assuming that your ZF 4HP22's are electronic also, and that a ZF 6HP26 will work with a ZF-Chev adaptor from Marks 4WD.

cheers and good luck on the conversion! If i find any more ZF-LS1 info i will post it up on here in case it's of assistance to you guys.

ps, LS1s are awesome, my 2003 LS1 is still pulling hard, with more power than an LS3!

[rovercare]

Hi all,

i am also eager to see the outcome of this, i have stumbled across this thread but i'm actually on the other side of the fence... i just chewed up my 4L60E, and i was going to replace it with a ZF gearbox. Since you guys are the only ones who are interfacing LS1's with ZF's, i figure here will be a good place to keep an eye on.

Mainly i am interested in interfacing the delco ECM computer with the electronic ZF TCM.

With any luck, i will end up with a ZF 6HP26 six speed auto in my HSV. I am assuming that your ZF 4HP22's are electronic also, and that a ZF 6HP26 will work with a ZF-Chev adaptor from Marks 4WD.

cheers and good luck on the conversion! If i find any more ZF-LS1 info i will post it up on here in case it's of assistance to you guys.

ps, LS1s are awesome, my 2003 LS1 is still pulling hard, with more power than an LS3!

Your in for a world of hurt:(

4L80E is what you want;)

I fried my 4L60E in 1200kays:eek:, its now a little tougher, but still don;t like its odds, although If I could keep diff's in my Jag (2now in 4500kays, and the missus is usually the driver) I might get a chance to kill it again:angel:

[v8chev]

I know that the 4L80E is the sensible way to go, they are always the shot for big torque input, hell i'm always recommending that my dad to switch from his built TH350 to a TH400 - just on input shaft size alone (not too much of a problem right now it keeps braking tailshafts).

At the cost of a 4L80E though, i could afford to rebuild my 4L60E, plus buy a ZF six speed out of an XR8 and have a play. I would love a big L80, i just was dreaming about the ZF clutch-locking efficiency, save a few kw from the flywheel to the wheels and shift quicker than a manual. There is also the weight of the box too, i am trying to keep my weight under 1500kg.

If there is hp problems with the ZF 6HP26, i guess i can go with a 4HP24A, i have driven the 2008 Audi S8 (spare underwear) and that gearbox handles the power and weight with precision, and they are nice and tight in a XR6 Turbo as well. I guess i'm a big fan of the ZF electronic gearboxes just because i'm a tech junkie, and i like the efficiency and low weight. (the 8-speed has just come out and is lighter than the 6-speed AND still has better efficiency, but that's dream stuff for now). The only problem i guess is if there is car problems while i'm away at work, do i send it to holden or ford... hehe would be good for a laugh.

[defmec]

why the f*#k would u want so much power in a defender is it more of a **** factor than anything else .sorry i dont mean to be rude :D i cant wait to go 4bn with u guys to see where all the power would be at use

[rovercare]

why the f*#k would u want so much power in a defender is it more of a **** factor than anything else .sorry i dont mean to be rude :D i cant wait to go 4bn with u guys to see where all the power would be at use

Why do you want anything bigger than 31" tyres??

Why do you want longer travel shocks?

Why do you want..................



Pretty stupid remark, Really:(

[cal415]

Well i have baught myself a gen3,, now just on to aquiring the necessary bits to make it fit in the county :)

[Bush65]

There's an ls1 in a defender here in Perth. It's in the latest issue of Perth Street Car, my mate and his workshop did some of the work on it. Wa Performance.
The early ls1's were pretty useless. Mine has a cam only pulls 367rwhp in a heavy vx clubby.
I think it would be a great conversion !


Thanks for the info. I think the owner of it may be on here somewhere.

I have sort of got a bit sidetracked thinking about this at the moment......
Discokid (over Perth way) on this (and outers) forum has an LS1 and TF77 in his 110 offroad racer.

[cal415]

why the f*#k would u want so much power in a defender is it more of a **** factor than anything else .sorry i dont mean to be rude :D i cant wait to go 4bn with u guys to see where all the power would be at use
I agree, why would you want a much newer, light weight, reliable, very torquey, massively powerful, reasonably economical engine that is very easy and cheap to source parts for and has soooo many options when it comes to after market add ons when you can go for a tired old 3.5 rover motor........ ummm hang on a minute maybe i dont agree.. :)

maybe we should all just settle with a 2.25 petrol motor,, god knows my county would really love the beach if i did that!! :D

[discowhite]

I agree, why would you want a much newer, light weight, reliable, very torquey, massively powerful, reasonably economical engine that is very easy and cheap to source parts for and has soooo many options when it comes to after market add ons when you can go for a tired old 3.5 rover motor........ ummm hang on a minute maybe i dont agree.. :)

maybe we should all just settle with a 2.25 petrol motor,, god knows my county would really love the beach if i did that!! :D

for a tired old 3.5 yes your right, but this is a TD5 vs LS3 thread. im with defmec on this one, im not sayin i wouldnt do the swap if i were in a position to, but not from a TD5. a hot TD5 auto converted D90 is as big as you want in a 90...

cheers phil

[rovercare]

for a tired old 3.5 yes your right, but this is a TD5 vs LS3 thread. im with defmec on this one, im not sayin i wouldnt do the swap if i were in a position to, but not from a TD5. a hot TD5 auto converted D90 is as big as you want in a 90...

cheers phil

Why? because its what you have?:p

Maybe he wants more HP than a piddly TD5 can produce:wasntme:

[cal415]

having driven a TD5 and seen and been passenger in a chipped TD5, i dont mind them but still i hate to see there repair bill when something goes wrong. I picked up a complete motor for 1600 with everything from the thermo fans to the clutch, ecu loom and all, i couldnt imagine you would do the same with a TD5. I thought about trying to find a TD5 to drop into the county but they just cost to much, then reading about some of the repair bills from people on here, that scared me off,,... tho at one stage i was very close to going with a 3.9 isuzu :)

[discowhite]

and i agree with you 100% cal! but until my motor stops pushing up conrods im not going out of my way to replace what aint broke.



Why? because its what you have?:p


no auto yet!:BigCry:

cheers phil

[cal415]

Well ive run into a small problem, the adapter plate works fine with the exception of 1 bolt everything fits together nicely... but the flywheel/ring gear is way to big to fit inside the plate/bellhousing, apparently marks 4x4 is working on a full kit to suit a LS1 for a rover but it wont be available until next year sometime, they suggested i try grinding the plate and bellhousing to fit! but the ring gear waaaaay to big. im currently thinking of trying to do a t56 6 speed into divorced lt230 instead.... or t700 to lt230 but the kit from overkill is 1250!!!!

anyone know of any alternative flywheels for the LS1s out there that might do the job?

[cal415]

Well im digging out an old thread, but im finally doing this swap, only a few minor hurdles left, what ive ended up with is a VY SS motor, dellow bell housing, billet steel flywheel, Carters clutch service is finding me a 12in clutch to suit, exedy heavy duty pressure plate, nissan GQ 5 speed box adapted to an LT230..... after a little trial fitting ive found there's not much clearance around the top of the steering box to the thermostat housing, and i will likely need a set of custom headers made up...

Davew, it looks like you have mounted yours very high up compared to what we had planned, did you have much trouble with clearance under the bonnet? also can you give me some specifics on how you setup the fuel side of things on yours? the other forum shows 1 image of pumps and mentions that you have done it but mentions no specific details on what you used and how you set it up.

[Camo]

You ripper:D

Gonna watch your buildup with interest

Camo

[Psimpson7]

nice one....:)

[cal415]

BTW ive got some plans for the motor to help push my fat arse rover along - cam, roller rockers, valve springs, custom tune etc etc

[the big fist]

BTW ive got some plans for the motor to help push my fat arse rover along - cam, roller rockers, valve springs, custom tune etc etc

G'day mate, if you arent aware the forums at Australian LS1 and Holden Forums (http://www.ls1.com.au) will have everything you need info wise with mods. Forget the roller rockers. Cam, springs and tune is all you need.
If you have any problems with the clutch have a read up on Textralia clutches. Fantastic and used by all the top drag teams.

Cheers,

Peter

[cal415]

Thanks for the info, i also post there - username is qserv - probobly dont even need the springs for the cam i will run but while they are out its a pretty cheap upgrade, same with the roller rockers if i can get them for a good price. Im pretty impressed by some of the cam, springs, tune, exhaust only vehicles on there, huge power and reasonable cost.

[the big fist]

Thanks for the info, i also post there - username is qserv - probobly dont even need the springs for the cam i will run but while they are out its a pretty cheap upgrade, same with the roller rockers if i can get them for a good price. Im pretty impressed by some of the cam, springs, tune, exhaust only vehicles on there, huge power and reasonable cost.

Yeah there are some great results, the ls series really are quite detuned. I had a cam(224/228),spring,otr setup in my old vx clubby and it pulled good numbers.
I've been lucky enough to see a defender with ls1 fitted over here at WA Performance and it looks great.
Good luck with your conversion. Will be interesting to see how the driveline goes and what gearbox you go with !

Cheers,

Peter

[cal415]

Gearbox is a Nissan GQ 5 speed, mated to a LT230 transfercase, rear diff is going to be a Dana60 centre in the sals housing with 35 spline 1.5in diameter axles, front is rover diff with rovertracks(longfield) axles and CVs.... only thing im worried about it breaking front CWPs really

[cal415]

Well for those that are interested in doing this swap heres what we have done for engine mounts the motor sits a fair way back in the engine bay to make sure it has enough clearance around the thermo fans and front of the motor, in comparison it sits roughly where the rover v8 did but the engine mounts are further back on the block so we had to make slanted mounts similar to the 350 ones i had, originaly we had planned to make them from square tube with a trailing arm bush on the end but would have had to cut the original mounts of the chassis to make that work, so we decided less chassis mods would be better to keep the engineer happy and run jag rubber mounts or QT ones.

These are made from 6mm and 8mm plate and have very heavy welds run on them, i dont think they will break any time soon :)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/1383.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/05/1385.jpg
all in on its own mounts
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/08/864.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/qserv/county%20rebuild%20g3/IMG_1411.jpg[/img])

plenty more pics here
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/58313-my-85-county-7.html

[HSVRangie]

looks similar to what I did when fitting hsv 215 into my RR.

your going to love end result.

there is no such thing as to much power its all abouthow you use it.

Michael.

[Slunnie]

Gearbox is a Nissan GQ 5 speed, mated to a LT230 transfercase, rear diff is going to be a Dana60 centre in the sals housing with 35 spline 1.5in diameter axles, front is rover diff with rovertracks(longfield) axles and CVs.... only thing im worried about it breaking front CWPs really
This is excellent cal415, I'll follow this keenly.

BTW, have you looked at different front diff options and gearing? You can fit Rover side gears to Toy lockers now.

[cal415]

Great stuff, saves me getting a different set of long fields, i may do that if i start breaking CWPs, but im doubting i will change the ratios if i do it will only be a slight change, like 3.9s or something along those lines.