So what now?

[Relay]

Alright, so on the 24-4 I got run into, by a 6T (or more) truck, in the county. I wasn't happy about it, but got the guy's details and put the car in to get fixed, and put together the claim and whatnot. The guy's insurance are now claiming that he wasn't at fault, that the Hyundai Excel that ran up his backside, pushed him into me.

Now I dispute that. A piddly excel versus truck...hmmm do the math. Anyways, on that count, I know the Excel's insurance is going to laugh at me (that's even if she gets back to them and advises them about the 3rd vehicle involved which she hasn't yet. All they knew of was the excel and the truck!) I dont have her details...*lesigh*

I will vouch that I only felt one bump. I'm not sure if I'd feel the excel hit the truck, nor am I sure that I hadn't moved off before the excel hit. I didn't know about the excel until I got outa the car...it was a big truck, I didn't see it.

So...

What do I do now?

[130man]

Hi Relay, I have no specialist knowledge but my understanding is that if he ran into you it doesn't make any difference why. The insurance companies can argue about it with each other but you should have your claim approved unless you are at fault, which doesn't seem to be the case here.Cheers, 130man.

[Tusker]

Yep I think that would be the case. You/your insurance co is seeking refress from the truckie. Its up to him to crossclaim against Mr or Mrs Excel.

Regards
Max P

[Redback]

Yep what 130man and Tusker have said.

Baz.

[d3funct]

Wouldn't it be funny, if the Hyundai and Relay both belonged to insurance A and the truck was insurance B.

Who would be the real winner in this one :)

[Hypothetically of course, crashes are never fun!]

[loanrangie]

Wouldn't it be funny, if the Hyundai and Relay both belonged to insurance A and the truck was insurance B.

Who would be the real winner in this one :)

[Hypothetically of course, crashes are never fun!]

There is no winner, we all get screwed in the end:o.

[dandlandyman]

"...everybody gets screwed in the end..."
I thought that's the whole purpose of insurance companies.
I've seen one bloke being sued for the repair of a car, even though said car was still parked in his yard in the same damaged condition now, 12 months later...
I once hit a Kia Rio in my 2a. In practice his fault, but legally mine. Anyway, I did $2500 damage to his boot, but it didn't even scratch the flaky paint off my bumper...

Built 2(a) last...

[mudmouse]

If either vehicle was towed, someone got injured, someone appeared to be affected by drugs or alcohol or if a party failed to exchange their particulars - then the police will have to investigate it. In these circumstances the insurance companies require a police event number and have access to a police crash summary and site diagram.

From the sounds of it, common sense (and physics) will prevail and show a car can't shove a truck (unless its doing big speeds)... anyway, try not to worry about it mate. Its a shame your Landy is bent but it sounds like you're in the clear. Let the insurance investigators do the running around, that's (some of) your policy money hard at work.

[Relay]

Okay...*sighs* It's like this:

I have third party property insurance. Hindsight is a killer, but when you're under 24 comprehensive is an arm and a leg and a liver...

Problem
a) I'm insured through -insurance company a- with all three of my vehicles.
b) The truck which ran into me, is also insured with -insurance company a-...<Now who was it that was laughing about the two people insured by the same company...I ought to beat you up you know that right ;)>
c)-insurance company a- are standing fast, saying we dont have to fix your vehicle because we say the excel pushed the truck into yours. Hence not truck's fault...hence we're not paying.
d) Due to my third party property only insurance, -insurance company a- wont go into bat for me at -all-. They wont chase the excel for me (apparently that's my job). They pretty much tell me to...go away.
e) I called -insurance company b-, who the excel is insured with. And they're sending a letter. The owner of the excel needs to reply to that letter before I can even persue that avenue...which, if she has half a brain, she'll put off for as long as possible. And then eventually probably say, I hit the truck when it was stationary. Hence we're kicked back to -insurance company a- being at fault, who've already said they aren't.

So ya can all say, black and blue, I'm not at fault. I know that. But how do I -prove- who is at fault when I cant see the excel behind the truck? No, I didn't call the cops (should have but didn't); and I didn't get the excel's details (another of those should haves...) and there weren't any other witnesses, cept the boyfriend in the excel.

I'm starting to get :mad:

[Debacle]

Have you sent a letter of demand yet.

That may stop them fobbing you off.

Send it to the owner of the truck, not the insurance company, your issue is with him and therefore he will maybe put the screws on your insurance company.

[dobbo]

If blame was assigned by the police there would have been less of as issue.

mental note for the future

I'd be taking the smash repair quotes and a forceful letter around to the truck driver and his insurance company. He was not in complete control of his vehicle at the time of the incident. What has what is happening to the rear of his vehicle got to do with your repairs? The Excel should not even be in the equation as far as you are concerned.

[ladas]

I would, personally, advise your insurance company that you are going to send copies of all the correspondence to the insurance ombudsman.

If you dont get a response - or the response is not good enough - then do it.

[LandyAndy]

The way I see it is.
Truck driver at fault didnt leave enough stopping distance for his vehicle.G string driver didnt see what was going on in front and hit the truck after it hit you.
Just remember all of a sudden it felt like you got hit again after you felt the truck hit you:cool::cool::cool::cool: ie the G string hitting the truck.There is no way a G string can push a truck that size unless they hit the truck at warp speed.Damage to the G string(High Undies For the un edumakated) will show the impact speed when it hit the truck!!!
Goodluck mate!!!
Andrew

[Discopug]

Don't let them bluff you.THE EXEL IS IRRELLEVANT TO YOUR CLAIM !!
Your issue is with the truck.
The fact he is insured with the same company as you Is ALSO IRRELLEVANT !!
Send a letter of demand state the facts and NEVER GIVE AN INCH !!
Keep sending letters of demand, if you are right ( and it seems you are ) then they will eventually give in.
Its just a game to them, they don't care whats right or wrong, just how much they can save.
I have had a bit to do with insurance companies as an emergency repairer for one of them.
Also read your policy agreement carefully.
Your claim is actually with the truck and has nothing to do with your own insurance.
You could have no insurance and still make your claim against the driver at fault.
Good Luck

[George130]

My understanding from friends who have been in pile ups is Excel is liable for truck, Truck is liable for you County.
Send truck driver and Insurance letter of denand.
Send letter ombudsman also.
If no written responce within 2 weeks send new letter referenceing first. Repeat until you get what they owe you.

Also a lot of lawyers will offer a free first consult. Have a talk to them about your rights and options.

Last time I had to claim it took 12 months as I refused to pay my excess as I was not at fault. Insurance surrendered when I rang to cancell all policies at renewal time.

Good luck and don't let them bully you.

[abaddonxi]

If you're an NRMA member you can call their advice line, they will give you an idea of what to do.

Cheers
Simon

[Tusker]

You don't have cover for the prang without comprehensive. That much is established. Your ins co. is out of the picture.

So your claim reverts to the truckie. Claiming from the Excel driver surely is the trucvkie's problem. As others have said you'll have to keep hammering and follow through with the letters of demand.

A solicitor's letter should make them sit up & take notice. Try the NRMA legal department if you're a member.

Regards
Max P

[davenlone]

As many have said, The excel is not relevant in the scheme of things. The truck hit you, regardless of whether he was pushed into you or not he is responsible. I had a similar situation about 5 years ago. I ended up seeing a solicitor who issued a letter of demand (which outlined his costs as additional to the vehicle repairs). 14 days later he issued a second letter stating that no further correspondence would be entered into and he would begin court proceedings in 7 days. My car and legal fees were paid for within 28 days of my first contact with the solicitor, unfortunately i mucked around for nearly 3 months before contacting him. The circumstances of my accident were that i was the second vehicle, My insurance was third party fire & theft which paid for the car i was pushed into, I sued the guy who hit me & so on down the line. (there was 6 cars in total).
Hope this helps,

Dave.

[Davo]

Yes, the truck hit you and the truck's insurance pays. This is assuming you didn't pull out in front of the truck, etc., etc. If it's that cut and dried then you just have to persist. That'll pay off in the end. (I know it did for me when a British Land-Rover parts company recently took my money and didn't send the parts!)

I just find it disturbing that LandAndy somehow managed to introduce sexy undies into the picture! :p

[Relay]

Thanks heaps guys. It's nice to know, that while I'm hitting a brick wall there's other places to turn to.

Have contacted -insurance company a-'s legal department...and they're looking into it. I'll give them until the end of this week, then I'm finding a solicitor. It wont be too hard...since my bro already has one currently :(.

Isn't the theory, that a letter of demand, merely makes -insurance company a- look into the crash and decide if they're liable? They've already done that! And decided they aren't...

I hate insurance companies...they eat ignorant people like me for breakfast.

[George130]

Isn't the theory, that a letter of demand, merely makes -insurance company a- look into the crash and decide if they're liable? They've already done that! And decided they aren't...

No. It is like a game.
They say they are not liable and hope you say oh bum and walk away. If you do they get out of it. Same as sending you a bill if you pay then you have admitted fault and they get out of it. Sending letter of demand tells them you are not going away so then they decide how much it is worth fighting to get out of or just pay up.
Insist on anything they offer or claim be in writting so they cannot trick you. It's like renewals they up the price and most people just accept it so they win.
This is why on a big payout they resist all the way to court and then settle at the last second. Most people will give up and move on.

[abaddonxi]

My experience, not having comprehensive and being the victim, was that unless you push and threaten, and get your own mechanic to quote, you get done over by the insurance company.

Even when they lose the insurance company wins.

Cheers
Simon

[ivery819]

The other old trick is to allege that there was contributory negligence on your part. They will then offer to settle for a percentage of the claim (say 75% ) on the basis that you were responsible for 25% of the blame. The NRMA used to do this and in the past I have finally settled for 100% on the day of the court hearing of my action against them.
I am now insured with NRMA so that they can screw themselves as required :D

[LandyAndy]

If somebody attacks from behind arent they already 100% to blame???,why take on 25% of the risk???
Or am I missing something???
Andrew

[ivery819]

The standard tactic was/is amongst some insurers to try and "bluff" their way out of some of the claim. In a lot of cases the claimant gives up and accepts the lower payment rather than going to all the trouble of a court hearing.
Some will also get legal advice that the potential cost of bringing litigation will outweigh the reduction in the payout.

[Blknight.aus]

to quote what one of the chocko driving instructors told the course when doing our HR4 conversion.

"when it all goes wrong, and you get caught the first words out of your mouth are its not my fault. Once youve said that stick to it...

It doesnt matter if youve just run over a quardaplegic pushing a quintetlet of babies in a pram whie driving through the playground of a school for the disabled after installing a drive through in the local fast food shop by running through the foyer walls past the servery with a beer can in one hand, a lit up joint in the other one foot on the air horn, the other jammed on the loud pedal while mooning the constabulary whose car you just finished shunting through 3 sets of red lights after he didnt get out of your way when you first blasted the air horn. you say Not my fault and you stick to it"

insurance companies do the same thing. "We are not going to pay up someone not coverd by us was at fault and its there problem"

It might take a while but eventually they have to give into the facts the real pain is that usually it takes ombudsman intervention to have it happen.

[mike 90 RR]

I guess your in for the long hall so 2 ways of doing it are
Get a lawyer to write to the Truck driver (expensive)
Or to do it yourself try:

Make sure the action is taken out on the "Truck Driver" as he was at fault, and not the insurance company or the Exel driver.

1: Get your 3 quotes of repairs together
2:Write a letter of demand + attach the copies of 3 quotes and state that he has "7 days to reply with payment" and include that "after that date repairs will commence" (make sure you specify the date in question)
Also include a "statuary declaration" of "Statement of facts of accident" ie: intersection, date ,time, weather / just like a police report. (Do not say: talking to missus or fiddling with radio etc) and Do not blame the Exel, as it did not hit you.
You could also report the matter to police and write a accident report. (supportive statement for action)
3: Wait 2 weeks
4: Commence repairs
5: Write letter of demand and include "legal action will be taken" and that "all associated costs of legal action will be added to the outstanding account"
and that he has "7 days to reply with payment" (make sure you specify the date in question)
6: Wait 2 weeks
7: Go to your local courts / fork out $150 odd dollars / fill out a legal civil action paper work & have their bailiff deliver it to him
8: Wait for court date

Make sure you reply to all correspondence sent to you in 7days
Never write a letter "explaining yourself" or "making accusation" other than
"you ran up the back of me, just pay your bill" or "We thank you for your correspondence, Pay your bill , we will let the judge sort it out"

Keep all correspondence on this matter & see what happens
Be aware that in the event of a court loss that "you will be up for all his or their legal cost's" (expensive)

You could also ring up the truck driver and let him know that you are going to do "Legal proceedings" and give him the opportunity to ring them and ask "Why am i getting all this grief? just pay him" before all this starts

But don't worry, as he will be contacting and having the insurance company attention (just what you where after) as he will forward on all paperwork to them.

Footnote:
1: I am not a legal representative or lawyer, so research these suggestions for yourself
2: This is the basic procedure that i follow when a client doesn't feel like paying their account
3: Be sure of your fact's of being "not at fault" before entering legal procedures
4: I had fun writing all this, so don't condemn me if i have got the procedure or the cost's wrong
5: I only presumed that the truck driver is male
6: Seek legal advise on all matters
7: Exel's are small, but they obviously pack a punch

[cartm58]

i see it differently, the last vehicle into the party pays for the entire party so if the excel hit the truck after he hit you, they are liable for the damage not the truck.

its up to you to claim, as your only covered for third party, nothing to complain about insurance company on that score you only get the service your prepared to pay for.

go see a lawyer they will bill their fees to the excel insurance company

your really up **** creek if the excel driver wasn't properly insured.

[mike 90 RR]

i see it differently, the last vehicle into the party pays for the entire party so if the excel hit the truck after he hit you, they are liable for the damage not the truck.

its up to you to claim, as your only covered for third party, nothing to complain about insurance company on that score you only get the service your prepared to pay for.

go see a lawyer they will bill their fees to the excel insurance company

your really up **** creek if the excel driver wasn't properly insured.

Although the Exel driver ends up paying for all parties involved,
The way i understand the system is:

You send the bill to the Truck ... he settles that account... then passes that account plus his damage bill to the Exel and then the Exel ...settles all accounts ...
My understanding is that because the Exel didn't hit you directly, There is no liabilty, Hence just as the accident was a series of a chain of event's, so does the claims process be made (in reverse of the chain of event's) ... so you go for the Truckie ... Truckie goes for Exel

You see the truck was at fault because it was too close to the Landy (tailgating?) Thats why at traffic lights, I always have 1 car length left in front of me (for motor bikes 1.5 cars/ hate to squish em) :(

[Debacle]

to quote what one of the chocko driving instructors told the course when doing our HR4 conversion.

"when it all goes wrong, and you get caught the first words out of your mouth are its not my fault. Once youve said that stick to it...

It doesnt matter if youve just run over a quardaplegic pushing a quintetlet of babies in a pram whie driving through the playground of a school for the disabled after installing a drive through in the local fast food shop by running through the foyer walls past the servery with a beer can in one hand, a lit up joint in the other one foot on the air horn, the other jammed on the loud pedal while mooning the constabulary whose car you just finished shunting through 3 sets of red lights after he didnt get out of your way when you first blasted the air horn. you say Not my fault and you stick to it"

insurance companies do the same thing. "We are not going to pay up someone not coverd by us was at fault and its there problem"

It might take a while but eventually they have to give into the facts the real pain is that usually it takes ombudsman intervention to have it happen.

Were you driving Big Red or Kermit when this happened Dave ??

[dobbo]

Were you driving Big Red or Kermit when this happened Dave ??

Sounds like he's riding Windsor, again.

Windsor's a Clydesdale who likes to eat that special green, medicinal use lucerne hay thats grown indoors.

[Blknight.aus]

Actually I was one of the instructors on a mack course trailer conversion with M code to cart the M113A1.

it was from the lesson on how to fill out the ac563 which is the accident report paperwork.

All military drivers are taught exactly the same thing..

while on scene never admit liability it is everyone and every thing elses fault but yours or the ADF's.


to be more helpful. a multi car pile up is not an easy one to untangle, in the event of a car being punted into the back of yours (or a truck) then the last car is responsable for everything.

in the event of your car getting hit from behind and then having another car plough into the back of both of you responsability wise (unless you were rolling back or reversing) the truck is responsable for all of your damage then the car that hit him is responsable to all of the damage to the rear of the truck and portion of the front and also pays out a small portion of the damage to your vehicle as compensation to the truck.

Thats assuming that everything works as it should before the laywerin gets it all tangled...

[Debacle]

You may even find that admitting liability voids your insurance cover as it puts you in the position of you commiting your insurer to be liable without their consent. This is something which was told to me by someone and may not be true but it may pay to check the fine print in your policy document.

"Windsor" didnt come from down Blair Athol way by any chance did he??

[dobbo]

"Windsor" didnt come from down Blair Athol way by any chance did he??

Blair Athol, I once got busted there street racing in my old Valiant. Back then there was no fancy name like Blair Athol for such a place. I was still called Claymore.

I must admit. Campbelltown has changed a lot.

[p38arover]

When I was growing up Blair Athol was a place in Qld. Has it moved?

[Relay]

Well...still no gold. I re-gassed the air conditioning system in the excel yesterday. It suffered minor damage...a radiator brace & bumper and whatnot. Good to know, that even when I'm the only one -not- at fault in an accident, I'm still the one without a car.

Excel is not answering their phone. So I cant really do much about that. I know where her dad works though, and as soon as he gets off from holidays I'll go talk to him. He's apparently in a workshop nearby, so no hassles.

I also heard, during my many conversations with -insurance company a-...that the truck is also getting repair work done in Sydney somewhere as we speak.

I'm turning into a grumpy bum...and I hate it. My brother goes to trial soon (5 days), and I'm sick of worrying about this kinda stuff when I should be saying proper goodbyes. I think it's probably time to prioritise.

[Relay]

well okay...I'm finally getting somewhere.

-company a- have finally agreed to liability. After hours of arguing I got in contact with one of their head claims disputes lawyers and we had a chat. She was surprised...and advised claims department to pay up because it wasn't worth going to court over.

Problem now is, that the door I had lined up has since sold. How convenient. All this tarting around...so I need to find another door asap, hopefully at a reasonable price (if the bill goes much over 2k they'll write it off). That'll start the next dispute about how much it's actually worth, considering winch, bar, tyres, suspension etc etc.

I feel like I cant win right now.

On the other hand...I might be finishing my apprenticeship early. Woo for me! It'll be good, as I'm not overly happy with my workplace atm, and I want to move on to bigger and better things.

Everyone cross fingers and toes and hope brother goes okay at court tomorrow and Tue too. I'm not sure what okay means. But anything is possible.

[DiscoStew]

(if the bill goes much over 2k they'll write it off).

It is commonly accepted that if an insurance company writes off a vehicle then takes ownership of the vehicle. This is not necessarily the case.

I was in an accident in 1986, my fault, and wrote off the escort. Insurance company would not hand over the cheque until I gave the the wreck but I wanted the engine to put in another escort.

Long story short, we sued them and they settled the full amount plus legals out of court. The lawyer said that 99% of lawyers will tell you the insurance company is right but he was yet to lose one of these cases and he had done half a dozen. Mind you he was a high-priced litigation specialist who did it for us for free due to him liking my Dad.

Insurance companies may have closed that one out in the last 20 years but you have not signed anything saying you would hand it over so it would depend on the law and how much you want to push it.

Legal aid can give you a list of lawyers who offer a 20-20 service which is a once per person 20 mins consult for $20. That would probably be enough to get a letter written up and sent.

[lokka]

Hay relay i may be able to sort you out with a rear door il have a look and see what i can find also i know were there is one sitting under a house we have both visited tho it now belongs to someone else talk to the fat controler and ask him to sweet talk the new owner to part with the door :D:D:D

[abaddonxi]

Hope it's good news for your brother next week.

Cheers
Simon

[George130]

Hay relay i may be able to sort you out with a rear door il have a look and see what i can find also i know were there is one sitting under a house we have both visited tho it now belongs to someone else talk to the fat controler and ask him to sweet talk the new owner to part with the door :D:D:D

Offer him some haggis and cafine to keep the insomnia going:D.

[Relay]

Well bro went okay. By okay I mean it's not over yet. There was a big...mix up? As in to say the other side...against him, suddenly decided to take a course we suggested 3 months ago when the court process began. What the huge deal is, is precisely what BAC he had at the time. 3 months ago our...barrister? suggested that they all sit down, look at the evidence (which is pretty messy I gotta admit), and decide what a suitable number is. They kept turning down the offer and have suddenly taken us up on it. In legal terms this bodes well, as in they might well have realised the leg they're standing on is pretty shakey. Anyways...Thursday they decide on that...then sometime in June we'll go back and do it all again...for the last time. Pretty gut-wrenching. But if it makes things better, I'm happy to feel a little ill.

As for the door, I'm sure something'll come up. That's the least of my stressors atm.

[JDNSW]

Just read the whole thread, can only add my advice - my understanding is that if someone runs into you from behind, unless there are very unusual circumstances, they are at fault, regardless as to why they did it. In this case they may be able to argue the liability of the car that ran into them, and get them to pay for your claim as well, but I doubt anyone is going to believe the car shunted the truck into anything, at least not if the driver survived!

I would also point out, the drivers are not liable for the repair costs although they may be liable to penalties for driving offences (e.g. tailgating). The claim is against the vehicle owners in all cases, regardless of whether they are insured - the insurance merely pays (part of) the owner's liability (subject to the fine print). Of course, in many cases the driver may well be the owner, but often is not.

If an owner is insured, the owner may, or may be required to by his policy, to put everything in the hands of the insurance company, but you should address all correspondence to the owner of the truck, even so.

John