MIG Welders - which one?!

[Shonky]

I have been looking at buying a MIG welder recently with the intention of using it on my Landy's chassis (which will need a new rear crossmember) and for general use around the farm. I also want to have a crack at building a car trailer somewhere down the line...

I figure that I have plenty of uses for a good welder and I may aswell get a decent one. I have had a bit of fun sticking my way around with a second hand cheapy arc welder, and had just become comfortable with the basic skill when it broke. :bangin:

I have been looking at the CIGWeld TransMig 135, but after thoroughly reading the most helpful welding website on the web www.mig-welding.co.uk (http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/) I am starting to think that it may be *just* a touch under powered.

How thick is a Landy chassis, and what would you all recommend in your esteemed opinions?

Thanks! :cool:

[mcrover]

First thing is stay away from Gasless MIG's, they are really only for light weight stuff and the wire is pretty exy.

Secondly if your not going to use it regularly then the rent on the bottle of Argon/Corgon is pretty exy as well.

For your average home workshop, you are better off with a DC inverter type ARC/TIG welder.

You can buy attachments for the higher end models (CIG,ESAB etc) that can convert them to MIG welders, gas or gasless where the wire roll is on the hand piece and there is a hose that goes to the Argon bottle that runs through a sleeve around the main cable as well as the hose.

I think ARB were selling one as well that was a DC to DC inverter welder with a gasless MIG handset the same.

You can get DC inverter welders that do ARC/TIG and Plasma cutting which just needs an air connection.

If you can weld with a normal ARC pretty well then you will look like an Expert with a DC inverter, they are great to weld with and would be my choice if I didnt already have a MIG at work at my disposal.

Good luck and have fun.

[crash]

I have a CIG equevalent 170 MIG. I have just gone to gasless wire due to cost of the bottle rental. If I was going to buy another i would be looking at the 200+ amp range, with teflon lined wire feed that way I would be able to weld Aluminium with it.
I agree with mcrover and would look at the DC inverters with TIG capability.

[Psimpson7]

Yep I second that dont even bother about the gasless ones. Waste of time in my experience.

Not too sure about the makes over here but back home I have a now 12 month old Murex Tradesmig 260 which is awesome, but very heavy (over 90kg without the bottle) and have used a Kempi over here which was also nice.

Rgds
Pete.

[lokka]

Yep like MC said DC tig's are great i have one and its a top unit tho for doing larger or reptitive work you cant go past a mig and with a good one you can also do alloy ......

My opinion there are mig's and there are MIGOMAG's i have the MIGOMAG 260 its the largest 240V mig in there range and its the best 240V mig on the market hands down ask any tradie who has done lots of mig welding and they will say the same tho these units come with a hefty price tag but are well worth the coin .....

CIG and LINCOLN are both great units too and are well built and will do much the same job but are not as good as the migomag then there are the higher end stuff like KEMPPI and FRONIUS these 2 brands are more suited to alloy work tho they also make units with less features which are good but not as simple to use as the migomag or the cig,lincoln units .....

If you can justify the work load go for the migomag if not then get the cig 250 both these will do much the same work tho the migomag is the beta unit tho nearly twice the price of the cig unit best thing to do is go ask a few tradies for advice and then go test drive a few to see wich you prefer ..

As for gas try work a deal with your local supplyer to get a beta rate i did and im happy to pay the $120 per year for rental on tha large bottle and $60 per fill up :D:D:D

[p38arover]

You'll get as many answers as there are MIG welders! :D

I have a WIA (Welding Industries of Australia) Weldmatic 120G gasless MIG which I've had for, crikey, 15 years or more. For the amount of welding I do, I couldn't justify gas. In fact, I let my gas bottles for my Oxy-Acetylene set go for the same reason.

WIA now make a Weldmatic 150 which is gas or gasless which makes me wonder if I can can convert mine. See NEW RELEASE! Weldmatic 150 - Single Phase MIG - Welding Equipment - Welding.com.au (http://www.welding.com.au/dw118-63/new-release-weldmatic-150/)

The WIA machines seem to be pretty good - I wish I was.

[Bigbjorn]

I have a 240v. CIG Transmig 195 which when new, was the highest capacity 240v. MIG welder available. It is a true industrial welder and takes 15kg. rolls of wire. I have feed rollers for .6, .8, .9, 1.0, 1.2 wire and two handpieces & conduits, one for .6 to .9, and one for 1.0 & 1.2. The machine will handle 1.0 alumimium wire on light work using a 1.2 conduit and tip. Keep away from gasless MIG welders. They really are just for light hobby welding. Like just about everybody, I resent the high rental of bottles. I will be using Repco's throwaway bottles when the next fill is needed. Lots of MIG and other welders go through auction sales every week. Most are 415v. three phase but you do find 240v jobs if you keep looking. Remember MIG welders are for indoor use or heavily shielded if used outdoors. My old technical college teacher repeatedly told us that the beat of a butterfly's wings will disturb the gas shield.

[lokka]

You'll get as many answers as there are MIG welders! :D

I have a WIA (Welding Industries of Australia) Weldmatic 120G gasless MIG which I've had for, crikey, 15 years or more. For the amount of welding I do, I couldn't justify gas. In fact, I let my gas bottles for my Oxy-Acetylene set go for the same reason.

WIA now make a Weldmatic 150 which is gas or gasless which makes me wonder if I can can convert mine. See NEW RELEASE! Weldmatic 150 - Single Phase MIG - Welding Equipment - Welding.com.au (http://www.welding.com.au/dw118-63/new-release-weldmatic-150/)

The WIA machines seem to be pretty good - I wish I was.

Ron all it takes to run the gasless wire is to reverse the ploarity of the output thus making the torch negitive and the earth clamp positive my migomag has this option by way of plug in leads on the front pannell :D:D

[p38arover]

Ron all it takes to run the gasless wire is to reverse the ploarity of the output thus making the torch negitive and the earth clamp positive my migomag has this option by way of plug in leads on the front pannell :D:D

I shall look into that. I'd need gas bottles and the right handle, etc .

[lokka]

I shall look into that. I'd need gas bottles and the right handle, etc .

Nope no gas at all and all you will need is the right type of drive roller for the gas less wire they have little teath in them to drive the wire and the corect tips and a steel liner in the torch lead (which id say you will allready have) all available from a good welding shop then yuo wont need the gas at all tho the welding will take on a whole new learning process as its similar to stick welding without having to change rods :D:D:D

[D3Jon]

I think gasless wire is fine for the DIY / Home handyman type.

I have a little SIP 150N that gives great results on anything upto 5mm (with good penetration). I use gasless wire all the time because most of the welding I do is outdoors. I've just made new barn doors out of box section, butt welded 6mm structural steel, and made racking out of 90x90x5 RSA.

The only problem I see with gasless is the cost of the wire and the extra spatter generated which makes it a little harder to see the weld pool. The upside is you don't have to cart a bottle around with you (or hire one). For example, just today I had to weld 2 pieces of box section together in my wood shed, I just hand carried the unit over, plugged it in, mask & gloves on, re-tension wire feed mechanism and off I went, no gas, no bottles and hand portable. :)

Of course it helps if you can weld in the first place - my first job was as a structural steel fabricator / welder, albeit that was "stick" welding, but once you can weld it's like riding a bike! ;) Plus MIG welding is easier once you get the wire speed sorted.

The only thing I now regret (given the amount of welding I've been doing lately) is spending $600 on a SIP welder when I should have spent a bit more ($1000) on a Lincoln with a better wire feed, replaceable Euro torch, etc.

Still, can't complain it's never let me down or been troublesome yet, I just know that when the torch lead gets twisted / bent / trodden on too much, I will wish it had a standard Euro torch on it.

Jon

[Larns]

I havn't read everyones responses so sorry if I'm repeating myself here.

I weld for a living so you can take what I say hovever you feel.

The small portable welder scene are all much of a muchness, most of them even come out of the same factory eg. unimig and cig. But if it's a good quality portable welder you are after then spend the extra mula and get the Kempi 180. It's my choice for remote areas ie. no 15amp, and when run on decent gasless wire will give you excellent results.

It sounds like some of the guy's have had bad expeariences with gasless, remember to reverse the polatiry, this helps emensly. And get the welding shop to help you set it up, thats what you are paying them for!
Gasless is brilliant if you know how to use it properly, all my call out work is done with gasless wire.

As for later on the track welding alloy, don't bother. To weld ally with Tig you need Hi feq AC inverter, and for a mig unless you are planning on spending more than 5-6k you really wont get a welder that will give satisfactory results. Ally welding takes ALOT of hard earned skill and a machine that can back it all up.

My personal welder at my workshop is a CIG twin pulse machine worth nearly 10 000 clams. However it dose do a good job.

Don't look too much into it for a hobbie welder, LR chassis are only a couple of mm thick and you'll find you won't need to turn the machine up beyond 130-140amps. Most of these small machines have a very small duty cycle as well so look at those figures when making your selection.

Good luck

[lokka]

As for later on the track welding alloy, don't bother. To weld ally with Tig you need Hi feq AC inverter, and for a mig unless you are planning on spending more than 5-6k you really wont get a welder that will give satisfactory results. Ally welding takes ALOT of hard earned skill and a machine that can back it all up.


Good luck

The Migomag 260 dose a top job on alloy its had more work on alloy than steel in the last 12months and i get great results with 1mm wire on 1.6 and up thicknesses dose a top job on 10mm alloy to tho like you mentioned it all comes down to experience and i think i have my fair share of that :D:D

[RonMcGr]

First thing is stay away from Gasless MIG's, they are really only for light weight stuff and the wire is pretty exy.

Agreed!
Found out the hard way..

[markd2]

hi

i have a unimig 240 have built camper trailer repaired tractor bits and pieces as well as general work around the shed and on the cars have found it perfect for most jobs 15amp plug needed takes 1kg and 15kg spools I use gas only and do find the hiring charge for the bottle a pain but for $1400.00 I think its a good buy

cheers mark

[Slunnie]

Personally I really like the ESAB equipment. We run BOC gear also and they're probably excellent for home stuff, but I'm not yet convinced at all that they're a long term proposition for heavy use as the niggle at times. Unimig does seem to be good. All of our gear is 3 phase so I can't comment too much on the power outputs, though 3 phase has enough grunt.

I find that we use a lot of MIG and it is the welder of choice. If you're into steel then there really is no substitute, especially if you're not a flash welder and you need to put down structural welds. The MIG is a lot more flexible and the learning curve a lot smaller than Stick. We do have Stick/TIG and Stick machines though they are seldom used. Oxy is picked up well before any of these machines, though I wouldn't be doing any chassis work with oxy personally.

[MacMan]

I have a SIP Migmate 150 and I've found it a tricky thing to set up.

I've been running gasless wire in it and the lack of smooth proportional control on wire speed for the 6 different power settings limits it on some jobs.

However, for small fiddly jobs with mild steel it still CREAMS using arc. I've used the arc once since getting the mig, and that was enough to convince me to spend the time playing with the mig on different thicknesses to work out what it could do.

Lots of users complain about spatter with gasless wire. It's there but it's not hard to remove. When compared to mild steel wire with gas it is messy, but compared to arc it's much better and easier to weld thin material. The other benefit with gasless wire is that it is not quite as fussy about wind. You MUST have some ventilation if using gasless in the shed, just as with arc - you'll feel crook very quickly and it lingers!


Would I like a better welder? Sure, but this one does what I need and at the price it was too good to refuse.

[p38arover]

As for gas try work a deal with your local supplyer to get a beta rate i did and im happy to pay the $120 per year for rental on tha large bottle and $60 per fill up :D:D:D

I couldn't work out what a beta rate was, I was thinking along the lines of alpha, beta, gamma, delta, therefore the second best rate. :confused:

5 hours later it has clicked. It's "better"! :D

[p38arover]

First thing is stay away from Gasless MIG's, they are really only for light weight stuff and the wire is pretty exy.


Agreed!
Found out the hard way..

Interesting that at least two professional welders in this thread disagree.

I'm a good speller but a lousy welder (I can't see what I'm welding anymore due, I suspect, to cataracts in both eyes - in recent years my son has done my welding but those days are now gone).

However, when I could weld, I found my WIA gasless MIG would weld quite heavy steel - even outdoors. The continuous control if wire speed is good.

The biggest disadvantage I've found is that the welds aren't as clean as gasless. I've got some uncored wire so I may try reversing the polarity and giving it a go as suggested by Lokka.

[lokka]

Interesting that at least two professional welders in this thread disagree.

I'm a good speller but a lousy welder (I can't see what I'm welding anymore due, I suspect, to cataracts in both eyes - in recent years my son has done my welding but those days are now gone).

However, when I could weld, I found my WIA gasless MIG would weld quite heavy steel - even outdoors. The continuous control if wire speed is good.

The biggest disadvantage I've found is that the welds aren't as clean as gasless. I've got some uncored wire so I may try reversing the polarity and giving it a go as suggested by Lokka.


NOOOOO ron (hope i spell't that right)

To run gas less you need a flux cored wire solid wire for using with gas is no good this wont work well at all mate sorry ....

I have some flux cored stainless wire here and its used with gas and it is top stuff the slag chips it self off as ya lay the weld as it cools the slag just curls up and cracks off its funny to watch and looks cool and the welds it lays are like they were done by a robot :D:D:D

[p38arover]

Ahh, sorry, Lokka. I misunderstood. I use cored wire but I thought you meant I could use solid wire if I reversed the polarity.

[lokka]

Ahh, sorry, Lokka. I misunderstood. I use cored wire but I thought you meant I could use solid wire if I reversed the polarity.


Yep no probs mate the flux cored stuff is good and works best if the polarity is swaped round so the torch is neg and the work clamp is pos .....

As for you not beiing able to see what ya doing the gold lenses are tha go for blind people like me and you and there are also magnafication lenses too my old man has one of these and he welds alot beter with it tho he only knows how to stick weld and dosent understand the mig and rekons ya cant teach old dogs new tricks so wont use it :D:D:D

[Shonky]

Thanks all for your responses so far. It has been an informative read!

I am still thinking MIG, but I am getting worried about the cost of gas cylinders... :o

Who here has actually done chassis welding with a MIG or a stick or both? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on how it turned out, and pics would be nice too!

Thanks for your ongoing help. :D

[lokka]

For chasis work you could do it with a stick welder tho would take some practice and good prep work to get the welds good without blowing holes this is why a mig is so usefull as it can be set at a lower setting and lay welds easyer tho i could stick weld a chasis no probs tho i have many years exp on all facets of welding (wish i could spell and comprehend sentences like i could weld would keep ron off my back :D:D) ....

As for welding the chasis with a stick/arc welder id try and get some 1.6 or 2 mm diameter WIA 13s rods or similar and go to a sheetmetal shop and get some steel off cut sheet in 1.6 and 2 mm thicknesses and spend a day in tha shed perfecting the art of welding sheet steel with the stick/arc this way u will get the hang of welding light gague steel before you go near the chasis and melt cavitys in it ...

Oh and look at the amp range on the back of the electrode pack and start at the lowest recomended setting and with stick its best to weld down hand or down hill up side down and vertical up is far harder and requires a bit of practice ....

Hope this helps :D:D

[p38arover]

(wish i could spell and comprehend sentences like i could weld would keep ron off my back :D:D) ....

You teach me to weld and I'll fix all your spelling for free!

That's why I try to keep spelling corrections light-hearted. I'm good at some stuff, e.g., spelling; others are good at other stuff, e.g., welding. :D

[Slunnie]

Thanks all for your responses so far. It has been an informative read!

I am still thinking MIG, but I am getting worried about the cost of gas cylinders... :o

Who here has actually done chassis welding with a MIG or a stick or both? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on how it turned out, and pics would be nice too!

Thanks for your ongoing help. :D
Yep, check out my website in the gallery and under technical in the Series Landys folders. There is heaps.
www.slunnie.com - Home > Technical (http://www.slunnie.com/coppermine/index.php?cat=4)

[Slunnie]

Oh...

Earlier I said that I thought the BOC ones were ok but don't cop heavy use all that well.

I broke a BOC one today and chatting around they've also being ****ing a lot of others off too with their random working.

The Unimigs are still not bad, but need to be chased a bit.

The ESAB's I can definately recommend. Great units and they don't give much grief.

We've run another brand also, and I cant recall what they were called, but so far they have been good also. I'll find out what they are.

[mcrover]

Interesting that at least two professional welders in this thread disagree.

I'm a good speller but a lousy welder (I can't see what I'm welding anymore due, I suspect, to cataracts in both eyes - in recent years my son has done my welding but those days are now gone).

However, when I could weld, I found my WIA gasless MIG would weld quite heavy steel - even outdoors. The continuous control if wire speed is good.

The biggest disadvantage I've found is that the welds aren't as clean as gasless. I've got some uncored wire so I may try reversing the polarity and giving it a go as suggested by Lokka.

So the first professional welder said to stay clear mainly because they are IN MOST CASES made for smaller work Ron, as well as the price of the wire is pretty exy in comparison to a box of rods for a DC arc welder.

I worked in an engineering shop since the age of 12 and I have 6 different welding certificates, some industry and some trade so I kinda do have a bit of an idea of what Im on about.

[Slunnie]

as well as the price of the wire is pretty exy in comparison to a box of rods for a DC arc welder.
Is gasless MIG wire that expensive! :o

I'll stay with gas thanks.

[mcrover]

NOOOOO ron (hope i spell't that right)

To run gas less you need a flux cored wire solid wire for using with gas is no good this wont work well at all mate sorry ....

I have some flux cored stainless wire here and its used with gas and it is top stuff the slag chips it self off as ya lay the weld as it cools the slag just curls up and cracks off its funny to watch and looks cool and the welds it lays are like they were done by a robot :D:D:D

A good ARC weld with a quality rod on clean material should do the same thing and when the slag falls off it looks like a perfect reverse mold of the weld but all curled up.......and normally broken into a few pieces.

I run (at work now) a cheap crap MIG which is the most annoying unreliable POC that was ever built.......so stay away from anything called BOSS welders.

I didnt buy it, the previous mechanic thought he got a good deal but only used it for a short while before he left.

If you need to use a MIG because your not confident to do it with a stick then why not just hire one.

For probably no more than $150 you will get a top notch 240v MIG that would cost you several thousand to buy.

If you do buy one, dont go cheap for a MIG, you will regret it.

Buy the way, it is much easier (once you know how) to get into tight spots with a stick as you can bend the rod to get into really tight spots, I'd like to see you do that with a MIG torch.

[mcrover]

Is gasless MIG wire that expensive! :o

I'll stay with gas thanks.

Last time I bought a roll for a mates welder it was near $60 for .9 resin cored but standard wire was only $12 a roll but I was buying it retail from a hardware store in a country town so the prices may have been a bit more Exy than down in the smoke.

And that was a few years ago now....:p

[rovercare]

ARC are a pain the sphincter for automotive use. full stop.

Buy a decent gas mig and a decent, auto tinting helmet, you'll never regret it

[rovercare]

Last time I bought a roll for a mates welder it was near $60 for .9 resin cored but standard wire was only $12 a roll but I was buying it retail from a hardware store in a country town so the prices may have been a bit more Exy than down in the smoke.

And that was a few years ago now....:p

5kg? 15kg?

$12? it was a long time ago, wasn't it?, last 15kg 0.8 roll I bought was $48, retail is $97

[Slunnie]

5kg? 15kg?

$12? it was a long time ago, wasn't it?, last 15kg 0.8 roll I bought was $48, retail is $97
I thought that was about what we paid here in the Central west through BOC also (about $50/15kg) but I'd have to check the invoice. It'll be interesting to see how much our next batch cost with the increases in steel costs.

[dungarover]

I don't have a problem with a MIG welder, makes the crappiest welder (me) look semi-decent but I begrudge the outlay of bottle rental, etc.. Plus I'm lucky to use a welder 4-5 times of the year so it's really a false economy to buy a exxy MIG welder

I have an old CIG ARC welder I bought years ago from a garage sale, been great and for the amount of times I use a welder it does the job. My welds are not pro-quality but they seem to hold up pretty well.

If I did do lots of fab work, I would lash out and buy a MIG welder though.

Trav

[abaddonxi]

Anyone know what a secondhand Esab single phase MIG/MAG goes for? I'm trying to sell one.

No, you don't want it.:D

Cheers
Simon

[Bigbjorn]

Repco outlets have disposable bottles of welding gases. Equivalent of BOC Argoshield, Stainshield, and straight Argon. Around $35 each. This is what I am paying per quarter in cylinder rental for my bottle of Argoshield. Will be going over to these when my current load of gas is exhausted.

[mcrover]

Repco outlets have disposable bottles of welding gases. Equivalent of BOC Argoshield, Stainshield, and straight Argon. Around $35 each. This is what I am paying per quarter in cylinder rental for my bottle of Argoshield. Will be going over to these when my current load of gas is exhausted.

What size are they as I need to get some for my old mans TIG:p

[mcrover]

5kg? 15kg?

$12? it was a long time ago, wasn't it?, last 15kg 0.8 roll I bought was $48, retail is $97


5kg rolls both prices.

I thought it was bloody steep for the resin cored wire seems the .9 wire at work at the time was only around $30 or $40 for the 15kg rolls at what was CIG at the time.

This was when I was at Lowline..........12 years ago......:o

Im getting old:(