Making a manual eye splice after breaking your winch wire.

[langy]

Well, it happens on a regular basis whilst winching: You damage a bit of the wire with a kink or fray, or an extra heavy load, and your cable breaks. But you can still use the stuff still on the drum, but you need an eye for the hook to go onto.

Whilst talking to Nobles at Silverwater ( A. Noble & Son Ltd (http://www.nobles.com.au/) ) about how I broke the my new cable a week after I bought it to replace the old (and also broken) cable, they taught me how to do a manual (Plimsoll?) eye in wire rope which will hold just as good as a machine made eye.

Unless it's after 3pm (Wire broker hours I suppose) , I can't recommend them any higher as to their helpfullness.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Split the wire into two for about 50cm. Generally the wire has 6 strands with a center wire core, so 3 on one side, 3 and the core on the other.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/


With the two ends, pretend they are shoelaces and loop them over.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/


wind the loose ends around each side of the loop - you'll find that the wire easily and neatly fits back together up to and including where you split it.



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

I'm using a hose clamp as an example - but duct tape, string, electrical tape or a rubber band will suffice to keep the ends nice and tight against the main wire. The strength (as it was explained to me) is in the bight of the wire, and as long as the ends don't 'pop' out (for want of a better expression) the eye is good for HD work.

[Blknight.aus]

now that youve done that derate you winch rope by multplying its swl by .7

if youd done it over a thimble (good luck with that) it would be by .85 from memory.

[JDNSW]

Unless you have tough hands, wear gloves to fo it.

John

[p38arover]

Very nice!



With the two ends, pretend they are shoelaces and loop them over.

I'm stuffed. Ask my wife. :(

[weeds]

its a bit of a worry that you break your cable so often......

i hope not to be around when mine breaks

good tip though, will keep it in mind

[Bush65]

Good post Langy.

Another quick easy way to form an eye that can always be undone, no matter how tight it is pulled is:

First tie an overhand knot but don't tighten it - so making an eye of the desired size.

Next pull the free end back against the standing part, so the free end forms a half hitch over the standing part.

Now twist the strands of the standing part, above the half hitch to open up the strands.

Finally tuck the free end though the opened strands in the standing part.

When the rope is placed under load, the free end carries less than half what the standing part carries, so the half hitch can easily cope. As the tension comes on the standing part the strands grip the free end and prevent the half hitch from slipping.

The strength of the standing part of the rope will be reduced because the free end was tucked through the strands.

When joining ropes, this technique (tucking the free ends through the strands) can be used with reef knots, so that they can be undone after the join is loaded.

[p38arover]

First tie an overhand knot but don't tighten it - so making an eye of the desired size.

Next pull the free end back against the standing part, so the free end forms a half hitch over the standing part.


When joining ropes, this technique (tucking the free ends through the strands) can be used with reef knots, so that they can be undone after the join is loaded.

Bloody hell! Can't you speak English? I just told you I can't tie shoelaces. :mad:

[Bush65]

Bloody hell! Can't you speak English? I just told you I can't tie shoelaces. :mad:
Sorry Ron. Photographs should make it easier.

Probably easier than tieing shoelaces - but with wire rope, riggers gloves and a marlin spike are best.

1st the overhand knot. Then pull free end to make a half hitch. Finally tuck free end through strands in standing part of rope.

Edit: Photograph of a reef knot with the ends tucked through strands added.

[mcrover]

Bloody hell! Can't you speak English? I just told you I can't tie shoelaces. :mad:

Geez Ron, My 6yo doughter can tie her shoe laces, my 11 yo son can do truckies knots (I cant remember the correct name for them).


I was once shown by an old logger a way to do this but it was similar to the second was, make a loop, put the end through and then make a split in the cable by twisting it loose and poking the end through and then wind the cable back around against the normal wind of the cable and make another slit and again poke it through.

Repeat 3 or 4 times and he recond it holds as good if not better than a crimpt loop but Ive never actually tried it to see.

I like the first way, make sense to me but you would want to put the protector thing in as well or it would just break again.

It also worries me that you break your winch cable so often, Ive caned mine pulling out Pootrolss and havnt broken it yet, Ive made the bull bar bend and sound like it was going to pop off but the cable was still good.

[p38arover]

Geez Ron, My 6yo doughter can tie her shoe laces,

My wife laughs at how I tie my shoelaces. She reckons it looks weird. It works and looks like anyone elses.

When I was in the Norfolk Island Volunteer Rescue, they'd never let me play with ropes and knots. I could never remember them.

Even with Bushie's pix, I'd have trouble with the first one shown. I always get them mixed up.

[Bush65]

Langy,

So sorry, for taking your thread off topic :(

Your post offers good instructions for solving a problem that may be encountered off the beaten track and safe a lot of grief.

Ron,

I recall seeing a web site devoted to tieing shoe laces - IIRC it gave a method where you didn't release your fingers from the lace, between start and completion of the knot.

Edit: link to site http://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/

Years ago there was a film starring Paul Newman, involving foresters hauling logs using spar trees and winches (like the Washington Winch down Omeo way). A brief part showed Paul Newman tieing a bowline knot on the run, apparently without taking his hand from the rope - an amazing feat if it can be done.

Edit: Photograph of spar tree and washington winch added.

[disco2hse]

A brief part showed Paul Newman tieing a bowline knot on the run, apparently without taking his hand from the rope - an amazing feat if it can be done.

Not hard. Two flicks of the wrist and it's tied. But easier to do than to explain ;)

Bit like your origami instructions :p :D

[abaddonxi]

Apparently most of us have been tying our shoelaces incorrectly for our whole (shoe wearing) lives.:eek:

I've been waiting for a very long time to post this link
Ian's Shoelace Site - Shoelace Knots - How To Tie Your Shoes (http://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/knots.htm)

And here's the one-handed bowline
The One Handed Bowline (http://www.animatedknots.com/bowlineonehand/index.php)

Cheers
Simon

[disco2hse]

And here's the one-handed bowline
The One Handed Bowline (http://www.animatedknots.com/bowlineonehand/index.php)

Between you, me, and the door post, I wouldn't go anywhere near that technique.

For one thing it'd take longer to prepare to tie the knot than to simply tie the flipping thing.

For another, bowlines are strong knots for situations where strength is required. Often when you need a bowline you are in a pressure situation (whether docking, in a stiff breeze on a yacht, making fast to someone who's in a risk situation, that kind of thing), so to loop a line and then to stick your hand through the loop is asking to have your wrist broken, getting yourself pulled over the side, having your hand/arm ripped off or crushed, etc. Get the idea?

[abaddonxi]

Between you, me, and the door post, I wouldn't go anywhere near that technique.

For one thing it'd take longer to prepare to tie the knot than to simply tie the flipping thing.

For another, bowlines are strong knots for situations where strength is required. Often when you need a bowline you are in a pressure situation (whether docking, in a stiff breeze on a yacht, making fast to someone who's in a risk situation, that kind of thing), so to loop a line and then to stick your hand through the loop is asking to have your wrist broken, getting yourself pulled over the side, having your hand/arm ripped off or crushed, etc. Get the idea?

I get seasick.

And I did notice the wrist thing.

Cheers
Simon

[Tank]

Well, it happens on a regular basis whilst winching: You damage a bit of the wire with a kink or fray, or an extra heavy load, and your cable breaks. But you can still use the stuff still on the drum, but you need an eye for the hook to go onto.

Whilst talking to Nobles at Silverwater ( A. Noble & Son Ltd (http://www.nobles.com.au/) ) about how I broke the my new cable a week after I bought it to replace the old (and also broken) cable, they taught me how to do a manual (Plimsoll?) eye in wire rope which will hold just as good as a machine made eye.

Unless it's after 3pm (Wire broker hours I suppose) , I can't recommend them any higher as to their helpfullness.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/projects-tutorials/8725d1211480533-making-manual-eye-splice-after-breaking-your-winch-wire-resize-2008-05-22-009.jpg

Split the wire into two for about 50cm. Generally the wire has 6 strands with a center wire core, so 3 on one side, 3 and the core on the other.


http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/projects-tutorials/8726d1211480575-making-manual-eye-splice-after-breaking-your-winch-wire-resize-2008-05-22-010.jpg


With the two ends, pretend they are shoelaces and loop them over.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/projects-tutorials/8727d1211480605-making-manual-eye-splice-after-breaking-your-winch-wire-resize-2008-05-22-011.jpg


wind the loose ends around each side of the loop - you'll find that the wire easily and neatly fits back together up to and including where you split it.



http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/projects-tutorials/8728d1211480647-making-manual-eye-splice-after-breaking-your-winch-wire-resize-2008-05-22-013.jpg

I'm using a hose clamp as an example - but duct tape, string, electrical tape or a rubber band will suffice to keep the ends nice and tight against the main wire. The strength (as it was explained to me) is in the bight of the wire, and as long as the ends don't 'pop' out (for want of a better expression) the eye is good for HD work.
I wouldn't trust that method as far as I could throw it, and whoever at Noble's told you that it was good wants his A..e kicked.
A proper splice has 6 full tucks and up to 6 half tucks, 3 or 4 proper size Bulldog clamps would be better, safer and quicker, but I still wouldn't stand within a 100 metres of that system either.
The tucks rely on friction and tightening of the splice to maintain the loop, you can buy a Line clamp from Nobles that has a set of jaws (shaped like the cable outer) that clamps onto the wire with an eye on the other end to hook a shackle and an extension strap/cable, the more weight applied the tighter the clamp grips, Don't frig around with half a..sed ideas it could kill you or someone else, Regards Frank.

[Hymie]

Geez Ron, My 6yo doughter can tie her shoe laces, my 11 yo son can do truckies knots (I cant remember the correct name for them).


The Bakers Bowline?

[Newbs-IIA]

A properly spliced wire/rope is alot better than any factory crimp job. I've had a few to many dodgy crimp jobs go on me while sailing to trust them (knowing how to splice is a bonus).

[POD]

Ah, people who like knots! Years ago I did some maintenance work on irrigation equipment and learned to do a proper splicing repair to wire rope. The splice consumes, if I recall correctly, something like 12 feet of rope per 1/2" diameter, as each strand of each end is wound and tucked individually for about two feet. The finished splice is the same diameter as the rest of the rope, will wind onto drums the same and has no reduction in breaking strain. I have photocopied instructions from an irrigation manual filed away somewhere.
I agree with TANK on this loop splice- I don't think there is enough rope contact around the loop to provide enough friction to make this anything like secure under load.