Fitting MANN+HUMMEL Provent to a TD5 110

[isuzurover]

Thanks to Dave for posting up the way he fitted his. Which can be found here: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/56973-fitting-mann-hummel-provent-ccv-blowby-oil-sepertator.html

However, Stuart (Iggy) came over this arvo, so I thought I would post some pics of the EASY way to do it... ;)

Time required: 1.5-2 hrs (this included taking pics and drinking beer ;))

Parts WE used (you can do it differently)
1x Provent housing and element
1x One way valve
about 400mm of 1/2" hose
about 750mm of 1" hose
8x hose clamps (4 for each size)
1x Brass 1/2" hose tail/barb fitting (1/4" BSPT thread)
50x50x3mm aluminium angle
3x M8 bolts

Tools needed:
8mm spanner/socket
12&13 mm spanners
24mm spanner
screwdriver
Drill + drill bits
1/4" BSPT tap (not 100% necessary)
Brazing equipment

Parts we SHOULD have had but didn't - 19mm to 1" adaptor (x2), Brass or plastic.

Pics and method to follow...

[isuzurover]

Firstly, mark the point on the turbo drain pipe where you want to tee into it. It is hard to see, but there is a circular mark on the white sticker.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/05/137.jpg

Remove the drain pipe from the turbo (8mm spanner (2 bolts) for the turbo end, 24mm spanner for the other end).
Drill and tap it to take the brass fitting.
Screw the fitting in.
I then brazed/silver soldered the fitting to the pipe, to make sure it stays in place, and stays leak free. NOTE - you can use a piece of 1/2" tube instead.

The finished oil drain. Once cooled, can be refitted.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/06/773.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/05/138.jpg

You also need to remove the engine cover and the standard 19mm breather hose. Here is the engine with it removed (rocker cover breather at top of pic, intake inlet at bottom):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/05/139.jpg

This is the way the one-way valve should be connected to the provent:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1259.jpg

We drilled a hole in the existing bracket to mount the aluminium angle bracket to, to which in turn the provent is mounted to. Hopefully fairly straighforward for everyone to follow?
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/05/140.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/05/141.jpg

Now it is a simple matter of connecting the hoses up. First the drain:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/05/142.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/05/143.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/05/144.jpg

of the 2 1" connections, the upper is the inlet, and needs to be connected to the rocker cover, the lower is the outlet, and needs to be connected to the intake. The TD5 has a 19 mm breather hose, and the Provent has 1" fittings. We didn't have any 19mm to 1" adaptors, so simply fitted the 19 mm hose inside the 1" hose, and clamped the two together. It will be fine until some adaptors can be fitted.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/05/145.jpg

Job finished. It will probably look a bit neather if longer sections of 19mm are used, and the adaptors placed directly at the entrance/exit to the Provent.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/05/146.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/05/136.jpg

Thanks for coming over Stuart - don't forget to fill out the data sheet and start recording the necessary data!!!

[isuzurover]

Please note - in the above pics, the inlet and outlet to the provent are sitting on the turbo heat shield. This should be fine, if the hoses yyou use are rated to a high enough temperature, HOWEVER, it is probably better to incorporate a right-angle bracket into the 19-25mm adaptor, so that the hoses can be routed differently.

[Blknight.aus]

Nice nearly exactly as Id envisioned it happening for the mounting on that side...

and the way youve braised into the turbo pipe is exactly as I would have done it for the return from the provent with the return coming from the other side..

Id seriously consider wrapping your lines with thermal insulation tape tho ESP the return line, its looking like it runs awfully close to the turbo.

[isuzurover]

Nice nearly exactly as Id envisioned it happening for the mounting on that side...

and the way youve braised into the turbo pipe is exactly as I would have done it for the return from the provent with the return coming from the other side..

Id seriously consider wrapping your lines with thermal insulation tape tho ESP the return line, its looking like it runs awfully close to the turbo.

Thanks Dave. The oil drain line is quite a long way from the turbo, photo is deceptive. I have my concerns about the lines running over the heat shield, however they are pirtek super duper incredibly thick hoses, and they will be rerouted when Stuart gets the extre fittings.

[Blknight.aus]

unless they have the steel braiding under the outer layer (and Im working from memory here) they have a maximum heat tolerance of about 180 degrees although that is supposedly at the rated pressure. My concern would be with it becoming porous and dripping oil on the turbo.. and in my case the pie warmer (and lets face it with my apatiete I need all the cooking space I can get)

[Iggy]

Thanks Ben for the work you did today, could never have done it by myself. Got home and checked it out and everything looks good no leaks from the slip joints. Opened provent to check the filter and a fine oil mist escaped, so everything working great. I will post pics when I get the fittings and tidy it up. Have to go back to Rovertech next week to pick up some sealant, so will slip the money for the hoses under your front door.
Cheers Iggy

[LandyAndy]

Great work men!!!
Ben,any idea how much oil vapour equates to oil returned???? I guess it depends on the health of the mojo!!!! Mine is quite a heavy breather but uses no oil at all.
When I get mine Im inclined to set it up to a catch can and discard contents caught.As part of your work I can record how much oil is lost.
Im thinking the vapourised stuff is best rejected from the engine and replaced with new oil.
What are your thoughts???
Happy to go this way and keep it that way unless oil loss is exsessive.
Andrew

[isuzurover]

Great work men!!!
Ben,any idea how much oil vapour equates to oil returned???? I guess it depends on the health of the mojo!!!! Mine is quite a heavy breather but uses no oil at all.
When I get mine Im inclined to set it up to a catch can and discard contents caught.As part of your work I can record how much oil is lost.
Im thinking the vapourised stuff is best rejected from the engine and replaced with new oil.
What are your thoughts???
Happy to go this way and keep it that way unless oil loss is exsessive.
Andrew

Hi Andy,

MANN+HUMMEL DO NOT reccommend fitting a catch can.

There is nothing at all wrong with the oil you lose through the breather, so it would be a waste to throw it away. It is generated by one of 3 mechanisms:
Evaporation-condensation (the smallest particles)
Shear (ring blow-by) - medium-sized particles
Crank-splashing - largest particles (droplets)

As your engine is set up now, the oil will become slightly more viscous between services, the recirculation that the provent will provide should reduce this effect.

How much mass you lose depends on the engine, but somewhere around 500mg/m3 (oil concentration in blow-by). I can't give you a mass per km or kwh off the top of my head.

[LandyAndy]

No probs Ben
Will get it set up like Iggys,just got to get a mate to do the braizing.
Zaust manifold needs to come off:mad::mad::mad::mad:, an EGR kit I have fitted, and engine saver at the same time,plus a well overdue service,25000ks since the last:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:.I do run synthetic oil!!!!! Just had my shed chokas with that trailer!!!!
TIME TO SHIFT FOCUS!!!!
Andrew

[isuzurover]

As per my PM Andy - I am happy to braze the pipe on for you if it is easier than getting your mate to do it.

[LandyAndy]

Sharpen that saw Ben,name your time:cool::cool::cool::cool:
Andrew

[Iggy]

Finally finished rerouting the pipework and installing the elbows and reducers. Only have to make another brace for the allie angle (not really needed) and paint the bracket black. Here is the finished job.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/06/310.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/06/311.jpg

[isuzurover]

Looks nice and neat Stuart!

[stephenferguson]

Hello i'm new here,

i recently installed a provent 200 filter exactly like on this forum, but i ham having a problem with the oil coming out of the top of the provent, has anyone else had this problem? if so is there any way of solving it, e.g removing the one way check valve or setting the pressure regulators correctly?

kind regards stephen .

[isuzurover]

Hello i'm new here,

i recently installed a provent 200 filter exactly like on this forum, but i ham having a problem with the oil coming out of the top of the provent, has anyone else had this problem? if so is there any way of solving it, e.g removing the one way check valve or setting the pressure regulators correctly?

kind regards stephen .

If oil is coming out the top, then you have too much pressure drop across the element - i.e. the element is due for replacement.

If you block off the top valve, your crankcase pressure will eventually become too high, and may cause oil seals to fail.

Check that the (gas) outlet valve is open.

If the filter hasn't lasted long, it may mean your engine is on the way out (breathing heavily)

[stephenferguson]

Ok will check that it is open in the morning, i just installed it as it came from the supplier, the filter is only a couple of months old so i cant see oil being that it is worn already, just hope that my engine is not on its way!

[isuzurover]

Ok will check that it is open in the morning, i just installed it as it came from the supplier, the filter is only a couple of months old so i cant see oil being that it is worn already, just hope that my engine is not on its way!

How many miles have you done in those "couple of months"?

How cold is it where you are? What viscosity oil are you running and when was it last changed?

[stephenferguson]

Hi its been really cold the past few weeks, snowing today and last week, maybe done 1500-2500 miles if that. i run 5w 30 oil and it was changed 6 months ago max.

i havent checked the air outlet regulator yet, as i fitted the provent as it came from factory.

i have a feeling its not set up right but somebody was saying that it might not have enough pressure to get back into the sump, or i might have done something really daft and put the check valve in the wrong way!!!

[isuzurover]

Hi its been really cold the past few weeks, snowing today and last week, maybe done 1500-2500 miles if that. i run 5w 30 oil and it was changed 6 months ago max.

i havent checked the air outlet regulator yet, as i fitted the provent as it came from factory.

i have a feeling its not set up right but somebody was saying that it might not have enough pressure to get back into the sump, or i might have done something really daft and put the check valve in the wrong way!!!

You don't need pressure to drain the oil out, it drains fine just under gravity, as long as the hose angles continuously downward, and the valve is the right way around.

Can you post some pics of your install???

[stephenferguson]

Hi i will try and post some pics tomorrow, i have been out this afternoon and opened it up and i think that condensation is a big problem and it is clogging the filter up! the outlet port is open but only a bit, i felt inside and it only felt like 4-5mm, in the instructions it says it can be adjusted, do you know how? maybe it wants opening a bit more.

[stephenferguson]

p.s. it is installed in the same position as the one on here, apart from the pipes are the way they were before the man changed them (going over the top of the turbo).

[stephenferguson]

Could it maybe that the feed pipe to it is sitting on the heat shield of the turbo? as there is loads of condensation!

[stephenferguson]

had to take the turbo to get re conned today its totally shot, oil in the inlet and the outlet side, blue smokin like a good un'!! Do you think this might have anything to do with the condensation in the provent, going to take it off when i put the new turbo back in anyway and do an oil change and see what happens.

[isuzurover]

What do you mean "condensation" - Oil or water???

If oil, sounds like your engine is breathing (too) heavily, which may be why your turbo has died.

[stephenferguson]

Hi,

Thanks for getting back to me, there was condensation, water, in the provent, i think this is because the temp here. it is mostly cold all of the time. when im driving i can only assume that the provent was keeping a cold temp when the the warm oil is going through it, and causing condensation maybe. There wasn't loads of it, but over a period, it was building up and blocking the filter element. maybe if i was to keep the provent at a temp similar to the oil it would have been ok?

i think the turbo has been on its way for a while. the vehicle has done 95000 miles now. it had a cracked housing on the exhaust side, for a long time until i managed to source a 2nd hand exhaust housing and i think this affected the turbo.

[isuzurover]

Condensation/water in the filter will increase pressure drop. It should only be able to get in there if you are running an open system (or only doing very short trips?).

[Furka]

Up ! Interesting post :)

[Hamish71]

I thought I would share my installation of a Provent into a TD5 Discovery 2, here: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/106557-hamishs-d2a-overhaul-3.html

[Blade74]

Great guide and post. Thanks
Just wondering if there is an issue with blocking off the pipe that feeds back into the valve before the turbo?

[isuzurover]

Great guide and post. Thanks
Just wondering if there is an issue with blocking off the pipe that feeds back into the valve before the turbo?


Sorry not sure which pipe (and which valve) you mean?

Do you want to convert to an open vent system and block the original return to the intake?

[Blade74]

Yes I want to block off the pipe that goes into the black valve on the air intake near the turbo and just take the rocker cover pipe to the pro 200 and then return oil to the turbo oil return pipe only.
Would this be ok or does the air pressure from the motor have to go somewhere other than force itself back into the oil pipe?

[isuzurover]

Yes I want to block off the pipe that goes into the black valve on the air intake near the turbo and just take the rocker cover pipe to the pro 200 and then return oil to the turbo oil return pipe only.
Would this be ok or does the air pressure from the motor have to go somewhere other than force itself back into the oil pipe?

If you block off the air outlet from the ProVent your crankcase pressure will increase until 50 mBar and the valve in the cap of the PV will open and vent to the engine bay. If it didn't do that the pressure would continue to increase until you blow all your oil seals.

[slug_burner]

There will also be a vacuum at the air inlet to the turbo that will help draw the vapour through the Provent.

[weeds]

Thanks to Dave for posting up the way he fitted his. Which can be found here: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/56973-fitting-mann-hummel-provent-ccv-blowby-oil-sepertator.html

However, Stuart (Iggy) came over this arvo, so I thought I would post some pics of the EASY way to do it... ;)

Time required: 1.5-2 hrs (this included taking pics and drinking beer ;))

Parts WE used (you can do it differently)
1x Provent housing and element
1x One way valve
about 400mm of 1/2" hose
about 750mm of 1" hose
8x hose clamps (4 for each size)
1x Brass 1/2" hose tail/barb fitting (1/4" BSPT thread)
50x50x3mm aluminium angle
3x M8 bolts

Tools needed:
8mm spanner/socket
12&13 mm spanners
24mm spanner
screwdriver
Drill + drill bits
1/4" BSPT tap (not 100% necessary)
Brazing equipment

Parts we SHOULD have had but didn't - 19mm to 1" adaptor (x2), Brass or plastic.

Pics and method to follow...

does the one way valve come with the kit? if not where do you buy one from.?

i have a 200 on its way, a mate has arranged 2, i have no idea what comes with the kit

i see bunnings sell 19-25 hose adaptors

[Toxic_Avenger]

Western filters on eBay sell them. IIRC about 20 bucks.

[isuzurover]

does the one way valve come with the kit? if not where do you buy one from.?

i have a 200 on its way, a mate has arranged 2, i have no idea what comes with the kit

i see bunnings sell 19-25 hose adaptors

AFAIK it is an option. Recommended if the oil drain is above sump level. However in a 4x4 I think it is a good idea to always fit one.

[weeds]

AFAIK it is an option. Recommended if the oil drain is above sump level. However in a 4x4 I think it is a good idea to always fit one.



Thanks guys.....we are thinking manual drain to keep the installs simple.

[weeds]

Done and dusted....went with manual drain, pretty happy with the layout of the hoses.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/775.jpg

[Surrufus]

Can you let us know how much oil it collects ( if any )?

[weeds]

Can you let us know how much oil it collects ( if any )?

done 10km....zero oil

[isuzurover]

done 10km....zero oil

It will take quite a while until the filter loads up with enough oil to drain.

[weeds]

It will take quite a while until the filter loads up with enough oil to drain.



LOL.....yeah figured that.

What's the frequency for changing the filters??

Can they be cleaned or are they throw away??

[strangy]

I put up Mann+Hummell info on another thread this may help.
http://www.mann-hummel.com.au/FileUploads_Misc/Proventserviceman.pdf

[weeds]

I put up Mann+Hummell info on another thread this may help.
http://www.mann-hummel.com.au/FileUploads_Misc/Proventserviceman.pdf



I probably should have went onto there website.....a mate did all the purchasing.

[isuzurover]

LOL.....yeah figured that.

What's the frequency for changing the filters??

Can they be cleaned or are they throw away??

On a TD5 they should last a long time because of the oil centrifuge. Make sure you use genuine MANN+HUMMEL canisters in that. Not mahle or any of the cheap knockoffs.

If you do the above you should get 3000+ hours out of the filter.
M+H claim they are not cleanable, however people do clean them in solvents. I have recently been commissioned to do comparative testing of new vs cleaned elements, so can answer that in a month or so.

[weeds]

On a TD5 they should last a long time because of the oil centrifuge. Make sure you use genuine MANN+HUMMEL canisters in that. Not mahle or any of the cheap knockoffs.

If you do the above you should get 3000+ hours out of the filter.
M+H claim they are not cleanable, however people do clean them in solvents. I have recently been commissioned to do comparative testing of new vs cleaned elements, so can answer that in a month or so.


I see the document says 1000hrs.......given most cars that live in the city struggle to average 60km/hr which is 60 000km over 1000hrs.


I'm going to go with changes every 50 000km....