Replacing brakes on my SIIA LWB Ute

[srowlandson]

I am about to replace all the brake lines / pipes / fittings on my SIIA '64 LWB Tray.

I know the line i need, and that i need 30 Feet of pipe to do the whole car, what size and how many of the fittings do i need. I have a double flange brake pipe tool ready to roll.


Steve

[Sleepy]

Steve,

Can't help with the answer but.....
I'll be doing the same to mine in..........well hopefully not too long. If you feel keen, could you take a few photos, list a few stats/tips/issues and post here or in the tutorials section. An novice like me would really be interested.:)

[srowlandson]

i'll try - i'll go out the shed tonight and see what old fittings i have that i can cut off for sample,s buy a heap on thursday morning before work to tackle the job over the long weekend.

Steve

[Dinty]

G'day All, The bits you need are called tube nuts IIRC, they are 3/8" UNF thread, any good brake parts supplier should have them in stock. You will quite a few if you are going to replace all of them, from memory here goes
Front axle 2 per side = 4.
Rear axle 1 each side (at wheel cyl) then 3 from the interconnecting pipes = 5.
Brake Master cyl =1
3 way junction on chassis top rail = 4>>>>> add em all up = 14 x 3/8"UNF tube nuts.
Then for the front axle you will need a different type again (so take note of what is fitted) the flexible brake hose has a 3/8" UNF ?? acorn style nut internal thread, you will need 3 of these (4 if you intend to do the clutch line as well!!!) they are fitted to the pipes that connect to the flexible lines 2 at the front and 1 at the rear of the vehicle.
Have you got the vehicle stripped down?? as it's a little difficult to do some pipes with the body insitu, anyway nonetheless it can be acheived with some thought and patience, anyway good luck with it cheers Dennis:wasntme:
PS Always remember to fit the nuts before flaring, dont drink whilst doing the job or you will be in a stew LOL.

[Aaron IIA]

When you purchase the line, get the pipe that looks like copper but is actually proper steel brake line. It comes coiled up, and is much easier to hand form than the pipe that comes straight. I have just done my SI. This was done in 1/4 tube, with 7/16 fittings. This is different to SII/SIIA.
Aaron.

[UncleHo]

G'day srowlandson :)

Here is a few part numbers that may be of help to you, the flexible hose for the rear axle on the standard suspension 2a is
RTC-3353 this is also the clutch flex hose, if the vehicle is Ex-Army with a raised chassis, these RTC-3353 Flexible Hoses are also the ones used for the front lines;)

THIS HOSE IS ALSO USED FOR PARABOLIC SPRINGS


The following numbers are the Exchange Brake Shoe Part No's, for LWB 4 cylinder vehicles.

Front Exchange. E1420 Std. also available is 1st oversize,O/S= +.030thou

Rear Exhange. E1092 Std. " " " " " " " "


hope this is of some help:)

cheers

[chazza]

Steve the tube nuts may not need replacing; they usually scrub up well on a power wire brush and can be re-used, unless badly corroded, or if the flats have been damaged,

Cheers Charlie

[Davo]

Geez, if you have to buy any new nuts make sure they're right. I've had some real headaches with this. The British type are what you want, of course. The male nuts have a plain section below the thread, which pushes against the flare. American nuts don't: the thread just goes to the end. Apparently this won't seat the flare properly.

[Dinty]

G'day All, A metal turning lathe soon fixes that problem with thread to the ends, a quick spin soon removes that LOL, but in his post he stated he was going to take a sample, I love making brake and clutch pipes;) cheers Dennis:wasntme::angel:

[srowlandson]

thanks for all the advice, i'll visit ABS thursday before work, can't go tomorrow as i pick up my new Aurion from Toyota :) yippee.


I'll go all new for ease, knowing its new makes fitting easier. i'll clean up the old ones for 'spares'

photos and updates coming soon. picked up a double flaring tool (blue point) form the US Ebay last night, hoping it gets here soon enough to try it. car iscurrently chassis + firewall and back of cab - no roof / windows / windscreen fitted, so should be easy to redo the brakes, before the engine goes in and the front axle gets bolted on.

Steve

[srowlandson]

http://gallery.mac.com/srowlandson/100146/photo/web.jpg

Ok....

so i got 10 of the top 2 and 8 (all they had) of the bottom one...

Which are the ones I need :)

Sorry for the poor photo, snapped it off quickly from my iphone to upload to the net from work, will replace tonight with the camera at home.

I also got 10m of Bundy Tube 3/16

[Dinty]

G'day All, The one's you need are the middle and the bottom of pix cheers mate Dennis:wasntme:

[srowlandson]

G'day All, The one's you need are the middle and the bottom of pix cheers mate Dennis:wasntme:

Is the fitting and pipe from the tank to the master cylinder bigger?

Steve

[Dinty]

G'day All, I'm certain the pipe from the brake/clutch reservoir is 1/4" OD, and I know the fittings are 7/16" UNF hope that helps, cheers Dennis:wasntme:

[UncleHo]

G'day srowlandson :)

If your original fittings are not to rusted/corroded why not just cut them off your existing pipes and clean them up on a wire brush and reuse them, make sure that you use "pipe spanners" in the correct UNF/SAE sizes when refitting your brake and fuel lines as they stop the rounding off ot the fittings, get a good quality set with 30degree heads, as I have a set with 5 deg.heads and have problems getting into some spots,they are well worth the trouble to get as they are the sort of tool that will last, and be useful for a lifetime :) with the old fittings cleaned up and a dab of black paint "bingo" they will do another 30 years:D I now check any Series 2/2a's I know of that are headed for scrap and salvage all electrical/brake & fuel fittings for future use.

cheers

[srowlandson]

G'day srowlandson :)

If your original fittings are not to rusted/corroded why not just cut them off your existing pipes and clean them up on a wire brush and reuse them, make sure that you use "pipe spanners" in the correct UNF/SAE sizes when refitting your brake and fuel lines as they stop the rounding off ot the fittings, get a good quality set with 30degree heads, as I have a set with 5 deg.heads and have problems getting into some spots,they are well worth the trouble to get as they are the sort of tool that will last, and be useful for a lifetime :) with the old fittings cleaned up and a dab of black paint "bingo" they will do another 30 years:D I now check any Series 2/2a's I know of that are headed for scrap and salvage all electrical/brake & fuel fittings for future use.

cheers


I bought 2 sets of Snap On Flared Brake Spanners - they are the business - on a recommendation of a mate . Having used them, they have undone all but one and the nuts are still intact - I'll reuse some , but found throughout the whole rebuild of my SIIA, its easier to put things together with new nuts and bolts.

They aren't that expensive @ $6 each for the nuts.. i only need 14 or so.

[srowlandson]

job done... almost...

Well I have cut ll the pipe, and bent into shape and all 'sitting' in the spots on the car.


Next job is flaring , which i'll do once the flaring tool arrives this week. I have 'just' enough fittings for all the pieces, only bits to do are from the master cylinders to the junction box just below the pedal boxes and the flexible fittings to the rear diff and the front 2 .. i didn't measure so another trip back to abs this week to get the those and the last few fittings..

i'll pop out shortly to take some photos.

[srowlandson]

.Mac Web Gallery (http://gallery.mac.com/srowlandson#100201)

http://gallery.mac.com/srowlandson/100201/IMGP9296/web.jpg

[Sleepy]

Thanks for taking the time to get a few shots :):):)_ I have saved all this for future reference. (I'll need all the help I can get:()

[srowlandson]

No problems - I need to clean the chassis a bit more though... didn't realise how dirty it was in the engine bay :o

[UncleHo]

G'day srowlandson :)

Don't forget Steve that the current type of flexible hoses will probably have metric ends and you will need imperial, the genuine part No is RTC-3353 :) they will have the cross-reference, if in doubt about the thread when fitting don't force it.


cheers

[srowlandson]

G'day srowlandson :)

Don't forget Steve that the current type of flexible hoses will probably have metric ends and you will need imperial, the genuine part No is RTC-3353 :) they will have the cross-reference, if in doubt about the thread when fitting don't force it.


cheers


thanks mate - I gave that part no. to ABS when I got the pipe and fittings - he looked at me blankly and said "just measure the length and come back"

37cm was the length i measured.

He said he couldn't supply the bigger fittings that go from the master cylinder to the res tank though :mad:

[Aaron IIA]

He said he couldn't supply the bigger fittings that go from the master cylinder to the res tank though :mad:

I have a few spares of these fittings if you really get stuck. I could even fabricate the complete pipe if you like. Just tell me the length.
Aaron.

[srowlandson]

I have a few spares of these fittings if you really get stuck. I could even fabricate the complete pipe if you like. Just tell me the length.
Aaron.

Thanks mate. I'll see if i can source some and let you know if i get stuck

[gromit]

When I made new brake lines for my Series I the fact that my Father-in-law worked at a brake company helped (he's now retired unfortunately).
The larger fittings (reservoir to master cylinder) were sourced from an air conditioning company and were in brass, I think I have the bags they were supplied in at home so I should be able to get the part numbers.

Flexible hoses are available from Four Wheel Drives in Blackburn for about $26 each. They also carry made up pipes, you just need to know the length needed (or buy overlength and shorten to get an exact fit ?!)

The brake company I used was Neville Pearce Brakes in Hallam (I think they may now be listed as NPB brakes). They will make one off brake drums, discs etc for historic vehicles as well as dealing with modern vehicles. Series I shoes were supplied from stock on an exchange basis, handbrake shoes had to be sent away to be re-lined.

When I made up my pipes a length of string saved a lot of wastage. I neatened up the original pipe in situ as best I could, then removed it and measured it with the string. Uncoil/straighten some of the new tubing and using the string measure out the length and add a bit. I then fitted the first tube nut and then bent the tube to match the original, trial fit and adjust on the car. Remove, cut to length and fit the second tube nut.
All pipes were fitted from under the car (floor has to be removed) the worst was the front nearside (sorry passenger side) brake because of the length and trying to get a neat fitment round the crossmember. I don't think the Series II will be any harder.

Best of luck, will try to find part numbers tonight.....


Colin

[gromit]

Found some part numbers....

3/16" flare nut is L3000 - brass
3/16" tube nut is P4285 - steel
1/4" flare nut is L3001 - brass
1/4" tube nut is P4277 - steel

It may have only been the flare nuts that were sourced from the aircon company. If you get stuck PM me and I'll speak with the Father-in-law (this may take a few days).


Colin

[srowlandson]

flare tool arrived, as did the pipe spanners. Straight out the shed for a go.... about 2/3's of the flares i did looked good, couple of dodgy ones i'll cut off and re do.

actually quite an easy process :o

having a second set of pipe spanners is handy, but i can't imagine undoing a 3/4" pipe :o


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/06/529.jpg


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/06/530.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/06/531.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/06/532.jpg

sorry for terrible photo - iphone again, left the slr on my desk!

[Aaron IIA]

Does that kit include the dies to do the first stage of the double flaring? How much was it?
Aaron.

[srowlandson]

Does that kit include the dies to do the first stage of the double flaring? How much was it?
Aaron.

yup it sure does. the 5 (or 6, can't remember) Adapters are on the left (in the dark spot) fort he first bit of the double flare.

It cost me $160 delivered from the US - > AU.

Kit here from Snapon is $225

Steve

[JohnE]

very good thread,
just curious that last thumbnail photo, is that brunswick green, paint you have used!

have removed the brake lines from my ffr getting ready to make new ones, bought a small pipe bender and a chinese double flaring tool,today at our local ag fest, Primex, for $55.
Its in a plastic case and looks exactly the same as yours.just opened it up, its not from the mainland its from taiwan, has 7 holes, and a tube cutter too
actually not badly build compared to the chinese ones i saw today.
Needed the pipe bender for the sharper angles.

john

[gromit]

John,

Not Brunswick Green but one of the many variations on Mid Bronze Green in a brushing enamel. If I ever re-paint paint the body I'll get them to match to part of the original paintwork.....

Will be interesting to get feedback on the Chinese/Taiwanese double flaring tool. Mine is a Snap-On set that is at least 20 years old.
I got a mini pipe bender too. Managed all the 3/16" tube without using it but struggled with the 1/4" tube from the reservoir to the master cylinder so used the bender for that one only.

Best of luck

Colin

[srowlandson]

very good thread,
just curious that last thumbnail photo, is that brunswick green, paint you have used!

have removed the brake lines from my ffr getting ready to make new ones, bought a small pipe bender and a chinese double flaring tool,today at our local ag fest, Primex, for $55.
Its in a plastic case and looks exactly the same as yours.just opened it up, its not from the mainland its from taiwan, has 7 holes, and a tube cutter too
actually not badly build compared to the chinese ones i saw today.
Needed the pipe bender for the sharper angles.

john
hope , my car is in chassis black or etch primer grey



m flare kit is snap on blue point - and quality is up there with all other snap on tools i have bought

[JohnE]

oops just noticed it was gromits chassis sorry about that,

here took a photo, will probably only ever use it once, bought some hollow punches too, will make putting holes in the gaskets i make easier

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w248/JohnE_1/HomePhotos.jpg


john

[Aaron IIA]

My double flarring kit was marketed by ABV (Sidchrome). It appears exactly the same as a cheap one that I also have. The cheap one will not make a straight flare. They are all wonky and mis-formed. The ABV kit works perfectly. I used it on my '49, which has all the pipes in 1/4. All the bends were successfully formed by hand. The style of brake tube that you use does make a big difference.
Aaron.

[JohnE]

My double flarring kit was marketed by ABV (Sidchrome). It appears exactly the same as a cheap one that I also have. The cheap one will not make a straight flare. They are all wonky and mis-formed. The ABV kit works perfectly. I used it on my '49, which has all the pipes in 1/4. All the bends were successfully formed by hand. The style of brake tube that you use does make a big difference.
Aaron.

thanks mate, for your views, have you used one?
the tool guys that come up here each year for primex are regulars and i know a lot of other blokes on the land that have bought similar stuff with no complaints, so the test will be in the making
at any rate the finish quality on it is good, is not misaligned and goes together ok, will do some test pieces to see.



john

[Aaron IIA]

thanks mate, for your views, have you used one?

john

Have I used what? I used my good flaring kit to make all of the lines in my SI, aswell as the odd pipe for some friends. It works well, and is easy to use. My cheap one was cheaper than yours, but as mentioned before, was a piece of rubbish.

From now on, when buying specialty tools, I will only purchase from known brands. Those that come to mind are ABV, Sidchrome, Stanley (these three are actually all the same company) KCTOOLS, KCPROAM and RYTOOL. These are the brands that I have purchase from and had no problems with. I have purchased from other brands, but they were rubbish.

Aaron.

[srowlandson]

http://gallery.mac.com/srowlandson/100209/IMGP9322/web.jpg

http://gallery.mac.com/srowlandson/100209/IMGP9323/web.jpg

http://gallery.mac.com/srowlandson/100209/IMGP9324/web.jpg
Snap on Bluepoint flaring kit

http://gallery.mac.com/srowlandson/100209/IMGP9318/web.jpg

Finished pipe & Flares

http://gallery.mac.com/srowlandson/100209/IMGP9317/web.jpg
http://gallery.mac.com/srowlandson/100209/IMGP9327/web.jpg
New Tail shaft bolts and Nyloc nuts

All the photos from tonight, front end unbolted, new light mounts on rear fitted (http://gallery.mac.com/srowlandson#100209)

[JDNSW]

I'd be happier with those new prop shaft bolts if they ahd a longer unthreaded section like the old ones - you are driving on the threaded bit by the looks of it.

John

[dandlandyman]

Just a quick note. Those tools will only do double-flares (v-shaped). Some fittings in Series Land Rovers use ball-flares (<>-shaped). Again, for want of a digital camera...
My boss has a really good set for doing them, apparently he bought it in the UK years ago. I'll have a look at the breed later and get back to you.
Are ball-flares an exclusively British thing? I can't recall seeing them on any Holdens or Toyotas.

Dan.
69 2a 88" pet4, 74 3 109" pet4, 68 2b FC pet6.

[Dinty]

G'day All, I have a 'Rigid' brand pipe flaring tool made in the US, it is a first class piece of gear, and spares if you need them are available through any Eagles plumbing supplies cheers Dennis:wasntme:

[JohnE]

Just a quick note. Those tools will only do double-flares (v-shaped). Some fittings in Series Land Rovers use ball-flares (<>-shaped). Again, for want of a digital camera...
My boss has a really good set for doing them, apparently he bought it in the UK years ago. I'll have a look at the breed later and get back to you.
Are ball-flares an exclusively British thing? I can't recall seeing them on any Holdens or Toyotas.

Dan.
69 2a 88" pet4, 74 3 109" pet4, 68 2b FC pet6.

good one dan, the ends that go onto the junction block over the diff are ball, ( so i noticed the other day, when i took the short line out)
looks like i'll only be doing part of the flaring.