To lift or not to lift...That is the question

[GyroLandy]

Hi All,

I posted a similar thread a couple of days ago but wanted a more varied response so thought I'd post again.

I have a 1994 Landrover Defender. The car has 300k on the clck and I need to replace coil springs and shocks. Should I do a lift kit on the vehicle? If so how high? 1", 2" or more? Don't want to have to change ratios/gears in transfer box. What is the best equipment to go with?

Thx

[Grimace]

Upto you... do you go offroad at all??? If its just for touring and beach work then I dont think you have to lift it.

[2_door]

Hi All,

I posted a similar thread a couple of days ago but wanted a more varied response so thought I'd post again.

I have a 1994 Landrover Defender. The car has 300k on the clck and I need to replace coil springs and shocks. Should I do a lift kit on the vehicle? If so how high? 1", 2" or more? Don't want to have to change ratios/gears in transfer box. What is the best equipment to go with?

Thx

well, you will certainly get a varied response. Lifts are a very personal choice.

I recommend that if you are doing very little off road and dont need hard core stuff, a 2 inch coil and shock lift kit is best. It doesnt have any adverse affect on your steering or suspension components and will give you a bit more articulation and clearance.

as for brand, well there are lots out there. Best speaking with someone who has the same vehicle as yours and learn from their mistakes or go with what they found to work well as different brands work well on different vehicles, they are all different.

good luck ;)

[rick130]

<snip>
Don't want to have to change ratios/gears in transfer box. <snip>
Thx


This sentence has puzzled me. You only have to change your gearing if you change your tyre size dramatically. eg. go to 35" tyres.
A 2" change in ride height doesn't change the gearing. ;)

[JDNSW]

Your Defender is already more capable offroad than any of its competitors, so I would not see any reason for lifting it unless you find yourself regularly getting stuck because of insufficient clearance.

It will all depend on what sort of driving you do - it has to be pretty hard core offroad to justify a lift.

Lifting it by one or two inches will give a bit more clearance, but at the expense of a little loss in effective articulation, and make it harder to climb into. Although the centre of gravity is raised a little, this will not normally be noticeable, and for this amount of lift there should be no serious handling or steering problems.

John

[mike 90 RR]

I vote for ..... LIFT HER 2" ..

with all the floods in Sydney .. it will help / / & look good too!!!

If it only does "sand & sun" runs .. I would only buy a medium $$$ price spring & shock kit // Keep the soft ride!!

[Grimace]

If you do decide to lift the vehicle, as mentioned 2" would be the go.

Most off the shelf kits from arb, tjm etc can actually reduce flex. The higher lift will generally increase fuel consuption a tad.

If you have gone for so long without the lift, then you most prob do not need it, is all I am saying.

Personally if it were me I would be doin a 2" lift with lovells springs (well priced) and koni or bilstein shocks (not cheap).

[Xtreme]

Your Defender is already more capable offroad than any of its competitors, so I would not see any reason for lifting it unless you find yourself regularly getting stuck because of insufficient clearance.

It will all depend on what sort of driving you do - it has to be pretty hard core offroad to justify a lift.

Lifting it by one or two inches will give a bit more clearance, but at the expense of a little loss in effective articulation, and make it harder to climb into. Although the centre of gravity is raised a little, this will not normally be noticeable, and for this amount of lift there should be no serious handling or steering problems.

John

Agree with most of John's comments above.

However, a lift won't give you any more clearance under the diffs etc.
So, I'd suggest staying with standard height and maybe fit some sliders.

Also, raising body does increase angle that drive shaft unis have to operate at which may lead to shortened life.

Roger

[JDNSW]

Agree with most of John's comments above.

However, a lift won't give you any more clearance under the diffs etc.
So, I'd suggest staying with standard height and maybe fit some sliders.

Also, raising body does increase angle that drive shaft unis have to operate at which may lead to shortened life.

Roger

Yes, doesn't change clearance under the diffs, but does improve approach, departure and breakover angles.

I agree with your U-joint comments, and thought of including that, but just left it simple. It will also increase the amount of vibration from the front drive shaft due to the lack of a CV joint in it.

John

[2_door]

you wont spend anymore money buying a 2 inch lift kit over buying standard height springs and shocks. so for my money, I would get the 2 inch lift so at least you get better approach,departure and ramp over angles. It is something you dont appreciate until faced with a sudden and unexpected drop off or decline :D

[rick130]

<snip>

Most off the shelf kits from arb, tjm etc can actually reduce flex. The higher lift will generally increase fuel consuption a tad.

<snip>

Most people unfortunately don't realise this. Most aftermarket raised springs are a substantially higher rate spring than standard, so the spring is either the same free length or shorter than the OEM spring, so you gain no more flex, just a little more clearance between the bump stops and reduced droop travel.

A good list of Land Rover spring specs is here land rover spring specifications (http://members.shaw.ca/jbarge/springinfo.html)

[V8Landy]

Go 2" lift you won't regret it.I would however talk to a landrover specialist such as cooper automotive in sydney or lra in melb(there are lots more around).They will have set up other vehicles the same as yours.Cheers Brett

[Slunnie]

The other thing a lift will do is help make the ride nicer, especially if you have a bar or bar/winch on the front. The bumpstop clearance with a standard setup isn't very much and the axle will contact fairly easily which transfers the jar into the cabin. With the added bumpstop clearance from a lift the vehicle can better absorb the lumps and bumps that you driver over.

[Bulldog]

I wouldn't do a lift without doing bigger tyres, especially if its good looks your after. In my usual offroad situations, the diffs are the first to hit. I'd always do tyres of required size and then a lift to match. Nothing looks worse than a 4x4 with a lift too big for its tyres (especially if they're standard size tyres)... although, 2" won't look too bad ;).

[defmec]

if its a 300 tdi 2in lift. if its a 200 keep it standard or u will be changing unis in the front like u change ur undies just get some 33in tires and grind about 10mm of the anchor (Salisbury diff )wind the plug in 3mm and grind away i found the diff was the main problem in clearance

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Can we have some answers to the questions already raised???

What do you use the vehicle for and how much are you prepared to spend to get it right?

Also, what engine is it 200 / 300Tdi??

If you lift it with cheap stuff, be prepared for a reduced ride quality. By the best kit and it will handle better than a new standard on, even though it is 2" higher.

Also, for overland travel, standard HD springs arent necessarily the way to go.

Too many questions, not enough answers at the moment.


Dont forget that at or around the 2" plus mark you will need to consider correcting the steering geometry with either castor corrected bushes or radius arms.

If its a Tdi you'll probably be OK without swapping the front prop for a DC one.

[GyroLandy]

Hi All,

Sorry for the late reply.

I will be using this vehicle for trips into Simpson and Tasmania and proper 4x4ing.

The car is a 1994 300Tdi Defender. I am replacing the complete suspension including doing all the Diffs.

What is a DC prop?

If I do 2" but no more would I need to still change the steering geometry and if so what would something like this cost.

I have phoned a couple of suppliers and they mentioned a whole range of coil springs all with varying grades relating to how soft or hard they are. Could anybody give me more info as to what to use front and back.

What are HD springs?

Thx

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Hi All,

Sorry for the late reply.

I will be using this vehicle for trips into Simpson and Tasmania and proper 4x4ing.

The car is a 1994 300Tdi Defender. I am replacing the complete suspension including doing all the Diffs.

What is a DC prop?

If I do 2" but no more would I need to still change the steering geometry and if so what would something like this cost.

I have phoned a couple of suppliers and they mentioned a whole range of coil springs all with varying grades relating to how soft or hard they are. Could anybody give me more info as to what to use front and back.

What are HD springs?

Thx

OK, this is the sort of information thats needed in order to give accurate advice.

1. Given your intended work - Reliability is paramount.
2. Dont buy cheap crap otherwise No1 above goes out of the window!
3. Do the whole job properly, otherwise No1 above goes out of the window!


Dont know what all the makes are over in OZ, but here in the UK, once youve weeded out all the rubbish you have 2 real options. Old Man Emu and King Springs.

Id go for the King Springs everytime - Excellent springs for overlanding, Australian so you should get them over there. These springs will raise 50mm (perhaps a little more) or so but dont worry, with the right dampers and steering geometry it will drive better than a new stock Defender.

Dampers - Again, in the UK, OME or Tough Dog. Again for me Tough Dog every time. Id suggest using the Foam Cells, the BLXs offer more to go wrong and the Ralphs will be TOO big and hard.


Castor correction of steering geometry. Some people dont bother and save the cash. Thats OK if you are just playing at the weekend, but for your work, it needs doing to keep everything lines up as it should and prevent premature bush wear, and of course everything pointing where it should. There are 2 possibilities, castor corrected bushes (the hole is off centre) or corrected radius arms. Use the corrected radius arms, no inherent weak spots then.

DC prop - Double Cardon. On a 300Tdi you may not need it, but I would suggest that you do in order to ensure No1 above. Essentially with a lifted vehicle, under maximum articulation you can pull the UJ out of the Yoke (end of prop) - The weakest part is the yoke so you end up in rear wheel drive only.


HD springs tend to be of varying lengths and designed to carry more load than standard. Unfortunately you tend not to get any consideration of spring characteristics in there design and so end up with a crap ride unless heavily laiden. Quality also tends to be less than those of say genuine LR, OME, King Spring springs.

If you need to repalce any bushes - Id suggest genuine Land Rover ones. Cheap, long lasting and perfectly adequate. Dont buy cheaper pattern ones though - they dont last 5 minutes!

Looking at springs for your 90 (assuming no winch and very heavy stuff on the front), Id suggest:

Front - King Springs - KRRS-02
- Tough Dog Damper - FC41049
Rear - King Springs - KRRR-02
- Tough Dog Damper - FC41398
Castor Corrected +6 degree radius arms
Double Cardon Prop

Hope that helps.

[JDNSW]

.........Looking at springs for your 90 .......

I don't think he has said anywhere, but it is very unlikely to be a 90 - 300Tdi 90 was never sold in Australia, and few Australians would contemplate a trip of that length in a car as small as a 90. It is probably a 110, possibly a 130.

John

[PAT303]

Yorkshire Jon the reason you get weak puppy shocks in England is because no one in Oz will buy them.Koni or billies,nothing else compares.What Rick said is right,after market springs are worse than OME because they are the same height,the ''lift'' comes from being stiffer.I have Lovells on my fender,slightly harder at the front,winchbar and high mount winch fitted,and the same spec at the back as OME.The cost of the suspension is the same weather it's stock or 2''lift so just lift it.That is the most common lift and you don't need to change anything to do it.Just lastly,brand new springs,shocks will do nothing if the bushes are worn,mounting bolts are loose(very common) so check everything out while your under there. Pat

[GyroLandy]

Guys thank you very much for all the info and help. I think I am more knowledgable now but perhaps also more confused.

To sum up:

1. Most are in favour of lifting it
2. I should not lift it more than 2"
3. I should change tyre size if possible for higher diff clearance

Some disagreenment on which sprinhgs and shocks to buyi

Mine is a 110

Thx

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Apologies if its a 110.

Front King Springs can stay the same, as can front and rear dampers.

Rear Spring however should be KLRR-05 or KLRR-05HD depending on how heavy the 110 is most of the time. If its often empty Id suggest the KLRR-05's and possibly twin rear Foam Cell dampers. If its FULL all the time then the 05HD's. Then you have the option of twin Foam Cells or one Ralph.

Either way, excellent combination.

[GyroLandy]

Thanks Yorkshire_Jon. What would be the Australian equivalent of these products be i.e. Bilstiens etc?

[Slunnie]

King Springs manufacture OME also. They're not the same specs though.

Also, I really would not fit foam cell shocks for the type of work you're doing. The conditions in the UK are not anything like that in the Red centre, and foam cell shocks will get destroyed, and once overheated they wont come good again. The only shock in my opinion that will work well in those conditions are the monotube shocks like Bilstein, OME LTR specifically and Ultimates. Then I would go to a twin shell (these start working again once cooled) like Koni, OME, Monroe etc and then last the foam cell Rancho, Tough dog etc.

The shocks get worked extremely hard where you're going, and I would consider very carefully fitting Bilsteins. They get hot, but they don't fade and they keep working.

[Xtreme]

I've got a set of Billsteins for a std height Defender and also an assortment of Std Defender springs plus two OME751 & two OME755 (suit front & rear Defender).
These are excess to my requirements at present and at the 'right' price, could find a new home if you're interested.
The shocks are only about 12mths old and have done less than 20,000kms.

Drop me a PM if you're interested.

Roger

[naradataranto]

King Springs manufacture OME also. They're not the same specs though.

Also, I really would not fit foam cell shocks for the type of work you're doing. The conditions in the UK are not anything like that in the Red centre, and foam cell shocks will get destroyed, and once overheated they wont come good again. The only shock in my opinion that will work well in those conditions are the monotube shocks like Bilstein, OME LTR specifically and Ultimates. Then I would go to a twin shell (these start working again once cooled) like Koni, OME, Monroe etc and then last the foam cell Rancho, Tough dog etc.

The shocks get worked extremely hard where you're going, and I would consider very carefully fitting Bilsteins. They get hot, but they don't fade and they keep working.

Hi Slunnie,

Graheme Cooper Auto here in Sydney Also recon the Belistein are the go. Do you know how much I should be looking at for a 2in lift done by a pro like graheme Cooper and is it worth getting some standard suspenion shop to fit or is it better left to landy specialists.
Thanks for all the useful info.

[Slunnie]

Hi Slunnie,

Graheme Cooper Auto here in Sydney Also recon the Belistein are the go. Do you know how much I should be looking at for a 2in lift done by a pro like graheme Cooper and is it worth getting some standard suspenion shop to fit or is it better left to landy specialists.
Thanks for all the useful info.
Graeme Coopers does it a little bit differently to most, in that they have a whole stack of springs available to them - rather than specific sets for Defenders, Rangies, Deiscoveries etc. He then works out your needs, does the calculations and then selects the springs to suit. If you use his springs (which are Les Richmond Automotive springs) then I would have him fit them and change them until they have the right combination. If they are from King, Lovells, OME, TJM, Tough Dog or any other manufacturer that has them as off the shelf sets and marked for your Landy, then I would just get anybody to fit them. The suspension on Landys is not anything special or tricky.

The cost of each kit will vary, and I would be expecting it to cost somewhere between $1-2K installed depending on the quality.

[rick130]

What paint codes are on the existing (if original) springs, and when parked on a level bit of concrete, what are the bump stop clearances front and rear.

You really should have this info before you go any further IMO.

[GyroLandy]

Thanks guys,

Who will stock King, Lovells, OME, TJM, Tough Dog springs here in Sydney?
I had a look at the current shocks and the only codes I could find were:

Front - COFOP GL12541
Rear - MONROE 4x4 - 16 0457 (DOF 07 3)

I think I have already decided on Bilsteins so only the make and grade of spring is outstanding. Ultimately I don't want to hard a ride but I would want a solid drive and very good offroad capability.

If I do a 2" lift do I still use the original lenght Bilstein shock?

[PAT303]

Slunnie I disagree with what you say about Koni.I have had billies and now koni's and neither fade or give in.Both shocks are the best but I have switched to koni's as the valving is spot on for LR's,re-bound is a lot better than billies and that is the most important for stability at speed.I loaded my defender heavier than I ever have when I moved to Kal,the suspension bottomed out a few times coming over and the koni's were too hot to touch but they didn't go soft.That is taking nothing away from billies as I have done 300,000k's on them and they never missed a beat.Both are the best hands down but koni's are right for LR's straight out of the box.Both of my LR's have them now. Pat

[Xtreme]

..................................the suspension bottomed out a few times coming over and the koni's were too hot to touch but they didn't go soft.............................................. ........... Pat

I also experienced this when coming across the spinifex 'moguls' on Madigan's Line last year - Koni's were too hot to touch but kept working.

Also have a lot of time for Billsteins and I'll be interested to hear how yours go on Madigans in a month or so Simon.

Roger

[Slunnie]

G'day Pat,

No thats cool, they're your experiences. At least you can determine fade where a lot of people cant. There are a lot of people out there that love the Koni and swear by them - but to me at least they're a high quality twin shell. I'm pretty sure they are the choice of Davis Performance Landys also, which is where I get my car worked on.

Interesting about the valving. Its one of those things where eveybody likes things slightly different to the next person. I run Bilstein GU Patrol rear shocks in the front of my Disco2, and Bilstein 6100 series buggy shocks remounted and revalved in the rear. I think most would find my setup to be very stiff, but I'm more into touring control so it suits me really well. I'm not sure about Koni, but a lot of people that appreciate complience in the suspension don't necessarily like the Bilstein spec as they're a little stiffer.

[Slunnie]

G'day Roger,

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how they go. I used to eat Rancho alive (17,000km at best, or a remote trip at worst), but the Bilsteins seem to be hanging in there really well. These ones have done Fraser Island (possibly twice), Simpson/Hay River, Cape York and are still going well. I just cant believe them. After Madigans I'll probably get the rears checked on the dyno to see where they're at, but I just cant believe them.

Good comments re the temps though. I remember when doing Hay R. we stopped on the French line and I felt the shocks and they were all really really hot. I cant remember whos car it was on, but there was one set that I burnt myself on them - they were either Koni or Bilstein.

Touch wood I wont break the shocks, though the rears in particular have endured an absolute hammering over their lives. I'll report back on how they go.

[Xtreme]

............................. I think most would find my setup to be very stiff, but I'm more into touring control so it suits me really well. I'm not sure about Koni, but a lot of people that appreciate complience in the suspension don't necessarily like the Bilstein spec as they're a little stiffer.

Simon, are the Bilsteins adjustable, apart from revalving them?
The Bilsteins I have in the shed are definately stiffer than the Koni's, but I've only done the comparison with the Koni's on the softest of the three available settings.

Roger

[Slunnie]

Thanks guys,

Who will stock King, Lovells, OME, TJM, Tough Dog springs here in Sydney?
I had a look at the current shocks and the only codes I could find were:

Front - COFOP GL12541
Rear - MONROE 4x4 - 16 0457 (DOF 07 3)

I think I have already decided on Bilsteins so only the make and grade of spring is outstanding. Ultimately I don't want to hard a ride but I would want a solid drive and very good offroad capability.

If I do a 2" lift do I still use the original lenght Bilstein shock?
G'day GyroLandy,

I grewup not far from you (some would say I never grew up)

King I got from Wholsale Suspension at Penrith/Kingswood - Coreen Ave I think it is. This mob have everything
Lovells I get from BrakePro in Parramatta - they're the Lovell distributor now and the guy is really keen
ARB I get from Traction 4 in Artarmon who have always been really good to me, but try Nick from Mannell Motors in Thornleigh also - he may be a little more expensive but he's also a lot closer.
TJM I got from 4WDMegastore in..... cant remember the name of the suburb, but its not far from Parklea markets when heading toward Blacktown.
ToughDog.... local to you is the 4WD1 shop which is in Castle Hill on Carrington Rd I think it is, or whatever the road is that runs around the back of Castle Hill showground.
Bilstein... I deal direct with Heasemans in a St Peters. They are outstanding down there and they will make any modification that you may want done to the shocks through the motorsports division. Steve is definately the man down there.

[Slunnie]

Simon, are the Bilsteins adjustable, apart from revalving them?
The Bilsteins I have in the shed are definately stiffer than the Koni's, but I've only done the comparison with the Koni's on the softest of the three available settings.

Roger
G'day Roger,

The Bilstein isn't adjustable at home like the rebound on the Koni. Definately a good feature on the Koni! To change the valving on the Bilstein it needs to be pulled down - a send it off to Bilstein job. Increasing the rebound definately helps with control and traction when things are rough, though adding a little bit of bump stiffness will also help control the weight, but increasing bump will also make it ride stiffer. If the Bilsteins are stiffer than the Koni's, then they're probably better suited to when you're loaded for control, where the Konis will probably give better comfort when unloaded.

[Xtreme]

Thanks Simon.
I must compare them with the Koni's on the mediun and stiff settings when I have time.

Roger

[Slunnie]

Thanks Simon.
I must compare them with the Koni's on the mediun and stiff settings when I have time.

Roger
It'll be interesting to see what you find... also when they're on the vehicle. The other thing is that the shocks can deliver the action in different ways. Like a car has a power curve, shocks also have a shock curve which relates bump and rebound force in relation to shock speed. The curves come in linear generally, but bullnose or whatever also.

Here is one that I had done a few years ago.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/06/642.jpg

[PAT303]

The billies are stiffer,they are recommended for early rangies and discos to get rid of some of the rolly polly handling they have.When I bought the billies you could get them re-valved for free,but that was 9 years ago and I would buy them again no worries but I bought the disco and it was a good reason to try something else.As Slunnie said,he likes a bit of stiffness while I like it a bit softer,it's good there is a choice.What ever your choice,buy the brands mentioned on this thread and you will do no wrong. Pat I forgot to add the Koni's were $200 a shock,billies $270.

[rick130]

<snip>
with the Koni's on the softest of the three available settings.

Roger

If the Koni's only have three adjustments on rebound, it sounds like you have the mono tube ones, which can't be re-built like the twin tubes (which generally have five half sweep adjustments, but not always, depending on the adjuster nut used)

The mono tube ones need to be at full extension to adjust, the button in the top cap depressed to lock the bleed adjuster, then the shaft (or body) rotated to each definite click.

[GyroLandy]

Hi Guys, Slummie thanks for all the info. After reading the last couple of posts the confusion sets in again. I phoned Graeme C and they sell Billsteins for $140 a shock. Now I see PAT303 mentions $200+ per shock.

I must admit I have no idea what revalving a shock means.

I'll phone around tomorrow, seeing as I have redone and resprayed every other suspension part and want to put everything back together tomorrow.

Just a last question aas to the grade of the springs:

Front - No winch or bullbar at present but may have in the future - Medium grade??
Rear - To cater for loading - Hard??

Thx

[Slunnie]

Hi Guys, Slummie thanks for all the info. After reading the last couple of posts the confusion sets in again. I phoned Graeme C and they sell Billsteins for $140 a shock. Now I see PAT303 mentions $200+ per shock.

I must admit I have no idea what revalving a shock means.

I'll phone around tomorrow, seeing as I have redone and resprayed every other suspension part and want to put everything back together tomorrow.

Just a last question aas to the grade of the springs:

Front - No winch or bullbar at present but may have in the future - Medium grade??
Rear - To cater for loading - Hard??

Thx
$140 per Bilstein is bloooooody good value. I thought they were a bit under $200ea. from Heasemans (2 seconds down from Coopers).

Revalving the shock is just changing the valves in the shock. The valves are what determine how hard or soft the shock is. Some shocks like the Bilstein can be pulled apart and different valves put in to modify the shock rates (how stiff it is), and others like the Koni, Tough dog etc can have the stiffness changed externally but rotating the body or turning dials etc. Most shocks cant be adjusted though.

If you plan to run a bar and winch later, I'd be looking for about 230lb/in springs on the front for a tourer - I personally wouldn't go too much lighter as I question the ability of lighter springs to maintain ride height over a period of time. Rears... I'm not sure. Defender rears I think spring up quite differently to a Disco which is what I have. A mate runs OME mediums I think it is (I'm not sure what the spring rate is) with Polyairs, and this is a pretty good setup for touring and playing depending on the polyair pressures.

[PAT303]

Mate if you can get billies for $140 each buy them quick.Something is not right as cheap POS shocks are around $100 each.With springs the temptation is to go hard to carry weight but you may just as well buy a leaf sprung cruiser as the ride will be the same.I don't carry loads on a regular basis so medium fronts and rears are good for me but when I buy my camper next year I will fit airbags in the back so I can taylor the rear to suit.For you medium would be my choice. Pat

[Bush65]

...so only the make and grade of spring is outstanding.
...

Some spring suppliers may specify a grade of spring (e.g. heavy). Some don't even do that. But these are subjective descriptions, not measurable values, so not useful for comparing products from different makers.

Given some values, like outside diameter can't change, the variables that matter most are:

1) spring rate - the force required to compress the spring a unit distance (usually in units of pounds force per inch of compression). Spring rate is the same as the engineering definition of stiffness.
A 220 lb/in spring will be compressed 1" by 220 lb, 2" by 440 lb, etc.
Spring rate is usually increased by using thicker wire to make the spring. Fewer coils will also increase the spring rate, but the allowable load (limited by allowable fibre stress in the coils) is reduced.

2) free length - the length of the spring when un-loaded.

Then the static ride height = free length - (static load / spring rate).

Unfortunately many suppliers do not publish these values, making it hard to compare springs from different manufactures (or evaluate different springs from the same manufacturer).


...If I do a 2" lift do I still use the original lenght Bilstein shock?
You can use the same length or marginally longer. It is necessary to avoid the shock becoming fully compressed before the bump stops prevent further bump travel (or the shocks will be damaged).

Long travel shocks will require modified mounts (best) or the bump stop will have to be lowered. The closed length of the shockie increases by approximately the increase in stroke.

[GyroLandy]

Hi All, Just a quick note to thank everyone for all their help. I decided to go for Bilstein shocks and King Coils.