Heart vs. Head? (Defender or Rubicon?)

[Sleepy]

Lease is coming to an end and I’m starting to think about replacement for Defender.

So today I thought I'd take the next step and talk to a salesperson.

Given that I was bagging the Jeep Rubicon I thought I better actually give it a fair appraisal. Jeep surely isn’t in the ballpark is it???? Mmmmm DiffLocks eh? Mmm Low range MMMmm Nice interior,MMMmmm Not a bad package for about the same dollars. (Head - 1 point)

Took the 110 for a spin. Very nice – 2.4 pulls well from low revs, smoother and quiter than the Td5, 6th gear is nice, interior a bit neater and that heater :) .(Heart - 1 point)
LR salesman couldn't give a flying fig about me. - Threw me a brochure and a price list.. said I'd have to wait 6 months, told me no chance of buying a new 90 (I don't think this is quite true if you believe the rumours) Kept looking at his watch….I spose he thinks the defender will sell itself. Spent a total of 3.52 minutes trying to sell me a car. What a joke!:mad:

Opposed to this the Jeep fella was keen, well spoken, couldn't stop apologising about the 2 month delay wanted to give me the whole sales pitch - He wanted to sell me a car.(Head - 1 point) No time for a test drive of the Rubicon so I’m returning on Sat for a spin.

Pound for pound I fear the Jeep comes out on top for a ready-to-go 4x4. (Just add some muddies and you’re off).

I dunno..... I love my landys but……I'm starting to weaken. It seems Land Rover just aren't as committed as they used to be. Too many RRS and D3 sales to be interested in one or two measly defender sales.

Test drive the Rubicon on Sat.

Head 2, Heart 1

[Xavie]

Yeah, I think I'm kicking myself I did not go with the Jeep. I love my landy's but......

Xav

[loanrangie]

I think Jeep has come a long way since those horrible 90's models that have been kicking around since 1984, Landrover almost had a captive market but lost ground mainly due to their lack of customer service /focus.
I have only seen a few rubicons on the road but they do look a bit like a defender - a purpose built offroader ready to go.

[B92 8NW]

And the wrangler now has a nice little oilburner - 130kw, 400Nm:burnrubber:

[Xavie]

Make sure you get a good drive. They are a really nice vehicle to drive and become rather addictive.

I quite liked the diesel but the petrol has a nice exhaust note.

Xav

[Greylandy]

I didn't find the Jeep diesel too inspiring .. it felt a bit weak in the pants! Maybe I was driving like a girly man!
Not sure if you want to live with the fuel bill if you go for the Rubicon but the offroad gear sure is nice.

If after sales is important to you ditch the Defender and go the Jeep.

In the end it doesn't matter, both are in the same class of no frills 4WD so you will be happy either way and you will get the same amount of dust inside the cab ;)

[EchiDna]

sorry I don't get it... your head tells you the sales guy was more interested so that makes the car better? eh? Are you buying a car or asking for a date? He is just a bloke earning a wage, probably won't get his commission until after the vehicle is delivered, hence not interested in waiting 6 months for his wages!

[Dinty]

G'day All, Just my tuppence worth, I'm not in the market for a new 4x4 at all, I will drive my 110 Isuzu County until it either dies or fuel is to bloody expensive, but in my humble opinion the jeep is the ugliest looking 4x4 ever assembled, even the rusky Gaz has more appeall, whoever did the design work on the body, must have worked with the nazi party back in the 30-40's, yes each to his own and beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but Land Rover will do me cheers Dennis:wasntme:
PS No I haven't looked inside one and I'm not going to either, my old 110 is 24 years old this coming November, no rust, original engine G/box etc built to last..

[Grimace]

I have to agree, with the above. Bloody shocking to look at the new rubicon!

Sure you get all the fancy stuff and the super bonus of lockers, but if you want a comfy suspension that isnt goin to **** you off I would be steering clear of the jeeps.

Sure heaps of people think a defender is uncomfortable and agricultural, but compared to the jeep it is still the best for off road touring IMHO.

If you buy the defender you may 'think' you should have bought the jeep, but I can almost guarantee if you buy the jeep you will wish you bought the fender, even if you do the whole hidden feelings in the closet thing and try to deny it.

I know what I would be buying!

[Sleepy]

sorry I don't get it... your head tells you the sales guy was more interested so that makes the car better? eh? Are you buying a car or asking for a date?

Fair point EchiDna. I think it's one of those "first impressions" things. If I'm gonna spend fifty odd grand I want him to spend some time and explain things to me. Pop the bonnet...Talk torque curves...anti stall...6 speed g'box.....is the 2.4 ford motor "up to it" or is it just a transit van motor dropped into a deefer to meet EU requirements....trade in value of my 90....yeah I did want a date, a coffee and he's paying...
I'd never stepped foot in a Jeep dealership before but walked in off the street and made to feel welcome and encouraged to come back.

Before I purchased my 90 I was offered a demo for the weekend to "get it dirty" and see if I liked it. I was encouraged to remain part of the land rover family etc. This guy made me feel like I was wasting his time.

Dinty, I gotta agree with you there. The Jeep aint all that pretty with those big plastic flares and front bumper bigger than Roger Ramjets chin.

Grimace, Thanks for the "heads-up" on the ride. I'll try and hit a few curbs ;)

Greylandy, agree on the fuel cost of the petrol but with the way diesel prices are going it aint as much of a difference as it once was.

[scarry]

paul,
why dont you try another dealer.....i went to buy my 1st td5 in1999 at a dealer & the salesman was not real interestd went to the next dealer& bought the car.

the last one i bought i shopped around the dealers & saved a good few thousand dollars:):D






what about someone sends this thread to LRA:wasntme:

cheers

[Sleepy]

paul,
why dont you try another dealer....


Yup think I will. I have a few choices in Melb. (unlike many areas of aus!)
I guess it's the reality of how Ford dragged Land Rover down to their level. I think the TATA change can only improve things.

I'm composing email to LRA as we speak (write?). :D

Look , I probably am being a bit precious over the salespersons performance...up to second glass of red and not so p15sed off now. ;)

[Xavie]

As far as sales went and on Echidna's point. I got the cold shoulder even know I was going to buy that day I walked in and I even got a snide comment when I had payed about how he [the salesperson] was not going to make much off it.

IF it was a RR I sure doubt I would of heard any of that crap.

Xav

[PAT303]

Just remember who towed what out of the bush in last years 4x4 of the year test.I think the lockers are just a way around poor suspension and on longer trips you would arrive in better health in the fender than jeep.My 2 cents Pat

[EchiDna]

....yeah I did want a date, a coffee and he's paying...
.
:D I love it!

never bought a new car myself and highly unlikely to ever do so either...

like others, I'll be keeping my 110 4BD1 until it's beyond repair or diesel is no longer available or my son inherits it!

[Sleepy]

I'll be keeping my 110 4BD1 until it's beyond repair

If only I could convince my lease company that a 20year old county is a worthwhile investment ;) I would get myself an isuzu and join you.:D:D:D(Couple of nice ones for sale at the moment!) Damn rules don't let me get anything over 8 yo.:mad:

[Sly]

Bumped in to a couple of Rubicon/jeep crew late last year.Not much water in the bush last year,but they had the shammy out, tight shirts, hair gell, raybans and no draft beer in there esky!.Kind of reminded me of the original camel man, but no smokes!!.
Know what I mean.:thumbsdown:

[Slunnie]

I look at Jeeps and I think that they have all of the good stuff.

Lower low range
Diff locks
5 link front and rear suspension

etc etc etc

Then when you look under it you realise how much the jeep engineers have completely ****ed up what should be a really good design.

Panhards are shaped liked a drop noodle which makes them incredibly weak. Suspension links are only as long as my ****... thats right, no more than 12" (roughly) which gives poor geometry when lifting the ride height and articulating. They run slip yolks on the transfer, not uni joint flanges, from what I remember the construction is poor (Not saying Defenders dont come from the factory pre-dented either!)

I think the Jeeps look good on paper, but the execution of it's build probably closely followed the execution of the designing engineer.

[Sleepy]

Thanks Slunnie,

I think this is what I need.
"Follow the force Luke, Don't be lured to the dark side!"
As mentioned above the suspension will be something I will look at more closely. I have a few months to make my mind up so, like most things, I'll ponder a bit longer.


Suspension links are only as long as my ****...

P.S. Does the suspension shrink in the cold weather too???? :eek:

[DirtyDawg]

Go on buy a jeep then join another forum and whine about the landrovers you had.....jeesh..:wallbash:

[naradataranto]

Pulled a broken and bogged Rubicon off stockton last weekend.
Need I say More.
My 95 fender breaks but still gets home.:)

[JDNSW]

:D I love it!

never bought a new car myself and highly unlikely to ever do so either...

like others, I'll be keeping my 110 4BD1 until it's beyond repair or diesel is no longer available or my son inherits it!

Same here.

John

[Sleepy]

Go on buy a jeep then join another forum and whine about the landrovers you had.....jeesh..:wallbash:

Keeping the Disco and I'm not parting with my SII.

"Rusty, old, drafty and cold":p::p

[defmec]

u would have to give the jeep a 4inch lift to get the same clearance as a defender .have u seen how low the under body sits and then u might as well go buy a patrol with the poor drive position in it. some thing only land rover owners can boast about .its good seeing more than just a bonnet and the sky when your off road .go with what the heart tells you .ps dont ever use the word JEEP on this forum again

[Sleepy]

Heart 9 ; Head 7

I thought this thread would generate some passion!! Thanks all. :)

[EchiDna]

If only I could convince my lease company that a 20year old county is a worthwhile investment ;) I would get myself an isuzu and join you.:D:D:D(Couple of nice ones for sale at the moment!) Damn rules don't let me get anything over 8 yo.:mad:

The heart can outweigh the financial benefit of the lease - if the heart is strong enough :)

anyway, I would have thought a cheaper vehicle with low(ish) running costs would be finanically better for you than a dirty great big lease on a monthly basis? different story if you need a loan for the purchase, but a cash purchase should make for extra dollars in your pocket each month? somewhere I've got a spreadsheet that calculates it, but from memory unless the vehicle on lease is costing more than about 1.2k per month, you are better off buying cheaper cars with cash. Even a $10k 110 on a loan would be hard pressed to cost you that much inclusive of fuel and servicing costs unless you drive 150km per day!!

[Sleepy]

The heart can outweigh the financial benefit of the lease - if the heart is strong enough :)

anyway, I would have thought a cheaper vehicle with low(ish) running costs would be finanically better for you than a dirty great big lease on a monthly basis? different story if you need a loan for the purchase, but a cash purchase should make for extra dollars in your pocket each month? somewhere I've got a spreadsheet that calculates it, but from memory unless the vehicle on lease is costing more than about 1.2k per month, you are better off buying cheaper cars with cash. Even a $10k 110 on a loan would be hard pressed to cost you that much inclusive of fuel and servicing costs unless you drive 150km per day!!

I travel about 150km per day with a definite saving on fuel and servicing. I have also found the residual of my previous 110 was fantastic - came out 3K above payout figure and I hope to get a good price for my 3yo 90. (This is also worth considering in my quandry as I have no idea of how well the J**P holds its value).
Good point though - I love the isuzu countys - I'll crunch the figures again and see what happens.

[George130]

With a lease the distance is what makes the difference. Half my costs are running costs. AS for that 8 year rule can you do an associate lease? I plan to make my next lease an associate lease so it can be older that 10 years at the end.
Salesmen can realy ruin the entire game. I test drove an ss crewman and the crewman cross 8. Bloodly salesman spent the entire time playing with every storage hole like he was trying to tempt me. Made me want to hit him.

[tempestv8]

I wish I were in the market for a new 4by.

Does the Jeep come with an auto gearbox?

If so, it would notch up higher than the Defender, which is manual only.

However, I think that a 6 speed manual gearbox will still be better than a 4 speed auto for a diesel because it's got such a narrow rev band of usable torque.

[crash]

3 things I like about the Rubicon 1) F and R locking diffs 2) Danna 44s at both ends 3) the availability of aftermarket. What I do not like has already been mentioned.
The Rubicon only comes in petrol - Do not know about trans options though.

[2 rocks]

Hmm, interesting thread....

Well, neither are the current model, but I have a Landy and Jeep, because I get different enjoyment out of each. Both were heart buys.

The D2 takes me to work and back comfortably and economically, does touring trips and will go most places I ask of it offroad (SLABS-willing!). I have spent a lot on it (with more to come) and I love it.

The Wrangler gives me top-down motoring on nice days without having to buy some dinky little soft top and gives me a seat of the pants trail-drive vehicle as well. I agree with an earlier post and I will be spending money it - but probably no more or less than the D2. I love it.

Sleepy, haven't checked this but I think the JK Rubi rides on taller rubber than the regular ones and may have swaybar disco's as well????
Cheers
Mike

[PAT303]

I think one thing that has to be said about new lease vehicles is that in 3 years what is the market going to be like.In Kal there is a lot of late model cruisers for sale as many people bought the new 200 series and car yards both here and in perth are full of them.Reading the local papers they are now knee deep in PR trying to get buyers but people are more and more switched on as far as running costs go.They may not like it but small turbo engined vehicles are the future and what can be sold after the lease runs out has to be considered. Pat

[numpty]

I look at Jeeps and I think that they have all of the good stuff.

Lower low range
Diff locks
5 link front and rear suspension


Are you sure:eek: The new defender's first low is 64:1

[one_iota]

re the salesman

The bloke I did the deal on the Defender with was great and continues to keep me updated as to progress.

Went out of his way.:)

If he had been a turkey I would probably have gone to another Land Rover dealer not a Jeep dealer...but I'm a LR tragic.

[solmanic]

You have given the biggest hint as to what your final decision should be in the thread title - Heart vs Head.

In the end a logic based decision will merely satisfy you, but will never have the ability to make you truly happy. Which vehicle would you regret more not buying? Are you more likely to be driving down the road in your new Rubicon and every Defender you see gives you pangs of regret?

We looked at the Rubicon before the new Defender came along and I just couldn't do it - no matter how much "sense" it made. In the end (and I'm a little embarrassed to admit it) it came down to - what are people going to think of me? Answer - in a Jeep Wrangler or Rubicon, they are more likely to think W@NKER!

Defenders stand for something more than Jeeps do. Jeeps (Wranglers and Rubicons that is) generally stand for leisure, Defenders stand for purpose. No amount of dollars or factory diff-locks can change this.

[rrturboD]

We had a Rubicon at the 4WD Show, Queanbeyan, in Feb this year. Had to be very careful of the driving lines on some of the off road track we had built as it was very easy to scrape the belly. Certainly needs a suspension lift. It was nice to drive, but really just a stretched Wrangler, with padded bars etc inside, really very basic. In fact may have been more basic than the new Defender, which was certainly more of an off road vehicle in standard form, before you bolted anything to it. my 2c spent!

[simonr23]

OT for the OP, but tempestv8, thats why an auto can be a very good match to a turbo diesel. if the manufacturer has done their homework(which LR have in the disco2's) the auto ensures u ARE in the narrow powerband for alot more of the time. especially take-off and slow speed low range.

[2 rocks]

Answer - in a Jeep Wrangler or Rubicon, they are more likely to think W@NKER!


Crikey Sol!
You been looking through my windows?? :eek::D
Mike

[solmanic]

Sorry 2 Rocks - just telling my impression of what I think people think. The Wrangler's credibility is also not helped by the number of times they appear in TV & movies as the choice of upwardly mobile gay guys.

[Slunnie]

Are you sure:eek: The new defender's first low is 64:1
The Rubicon is 73.144:1

Gear Ratios
1st.... 4.46
2nd.... 2.61
3rd.... 1.72
4th.... 1.25
5th.... 1.00
6th.... 0.84
Reverse.... 4.06
Axle Ratio.... 4.10
High Range Ratio.... 1.0:1
Low Range Ratio.... 4.0:1

Pretty impressive hey.

[2 rocks]

Sorry 2 Rocks - just telling my impression of what I think people think. The Wrangler's credibility is also not helped by the number of times they appear in TV & movies as the choice of upwardly mobile gay guys.

Lolol! That's weird - cos I usually think of Lara Croft in two of my favourite cars...Deefer and Rubi :p
Now, what time's my fake-tan appointment? :D:D

Media placement is bugger, because there's an awful lot of TJ's and no doubt JK's that get wheeled pretty hard! And I well remember the "Been anywhere intersting lately?" ads for the D2 that start off really well and end up in a hotel carpark :(.

Ah well...none of which helps Sleepy...
Mike

[Sleepy]

Ah well...none of which helps Sleepy...


Nah, This is great Mike. I really appreciate the input.:)
I have always thought the Defender had no competetion. I am not convinced anymore.

Image - I think I'm old enough that I dont give a rats knacker about what people think. If people think I'm a w@nker - let them - I proabably aint gonna change their opinion. (Geez I owned a Lada Niva once I know what it's like!!) Does it make me smile?:D
Eng/Trans - I think the J**P stacks up ok. Auto, more power/torque in both engines etc. But stats are stats and they mean nothing if you can't get this on the ground.
Wheels - The Rubicon has 17" standard, that doesn't impress me, I think I'd downgrade to 16" as the rubber is cheaper and more options. I'm not into huge rubber just for looks. My 235/85's have done a fine job. Even run 7.50x16 XZL's on 130 rims as my "off road" wheels. (Yeah I don't drive extreme - high country rambling is more my style)
Suspension - Mmmm this has been raised a couple of times and I am very very happy with my standard suspended LR (This factor could be the decider ) All the power in the world is no good if your wheels are lifting off the ground.
Gearing - This is why I was first attracted to the Rubi it has a much lower ratio than the other Wranglers and also has difflock F+R, heavy duty diffs and disconnecting sway bars. (All sounds good but....). No diesel available in the Rubi.:(
Looks - The defender wins this hands down - even with the swollen bonnet:D The J**P is OK. (Bit too much plastic??)I like the removable roof.
Ground Clearance - Well, I agree the J**P looks lower and proabably is. But then again I drove a Subaru Brumby up the telegraph track and didn't scrape it too much. (Proably need to raise J**P an inch or two though).Has lots of protection plates
SWB or LWB: The rubicon is avbl as a 2 door as well so would be an equivalent for the D90 . (WHich LR say they aren't doing any more but ....stay tuned.)
Durability - Is it tough enough? Panhard rods etc. (This is worth checking out - closely!!)
:spudnikwaving: - Don't think J**P drivers do "the wave" do they? I think I'd miss that :)


Progress Score Heart 13 Head 11 (Including a PM)

[2 rocks]

Sleepy
Jeep drivers most definitely do do "The Wave" - and just like LR, there is some nefarious protocol to follow - mostly ignored by anyone who gives a damn! Lol! And...Nivas (like Zooks) can shame a lot of much more precious metal.;)

If you're looking to downsize the rims, remember as with anything, you will need bigger rubber to maintain or increase clearance. Lifts are great for flex but it's rims & rubber that gets the diff up off the ground. Have to say I haven't measured, but don't think there's much between my D2 and the TJ, both on 31's at present. If you ditch the ridiculous ADR compliant front bumper, the JK's approach and departure angles would be hard to fault. Not sure if you're looking at the 2dr or the Unlimited (4dr) so ramp over will be different, but I know the belly plate on my TJ is a PITA, but probably revised on the JK.

Yes the omission of the CRD from the Rubi is shameful.:mad: As is the stupid slip yoke (possibly changed on the JK?? I just chucked a slip yoke eliminator on my first TJ to accommodate any lift). Far as I know the Wranglers have amongst the best flex right out of the box. Modding a Wrangler isn't something you "have" to do, but it's fun and the enormous US market means there is a mind boggling array of bits and pieces easily available.

I love both marques, so I wouldn't try to swing you either way. I guess I'm just saying that if you ask a Holden forum what the new Falcon is like, well...what are they going to say?

I'd suggest having a nose around on ausjeepoffroad.com as well, as you might get an idea of what JK owners love/hate about them - and it is likely to be warts and all/real life - just like we complain about the 3 amigos etc, etc here on AULRO. :D

In the main I've found that there seems to be a mutual respect amongst Landy owners and Jeepers. But maybe this is just the recognition of the fact that we both choose not to have a ToyNiss Whitegoods. :cool:

Good hunting!
Cheers
Mike

[Sleepy]

Good points Mike,

The reason I posted here was I guess I was happy for you-all to drag me back to the Landy:D. But I also feel that most of us love 4wding too and proabably aren't all as fantatical as we make out. I've owned a spectrum of 4wds and the defender is easily the best.....so far. (Ahh my little Lada was a ripper...when it worked:D:D.)

I probably would go for the SWB as I have the Disco for the family and the S11 for that Land Rover "experience". (Do like the 4 door though:))

Agree about the rubber question, the 17" are same rolling diameter as the 16". In general the 16" tryes (31's or larger) are proabably easier/cheaper to source. Remembering a 2" bigger tyre only lifts you 1 inch ; Whereas a 2" inch suspension lift is all lift.

Ahh, In the end I just threw the question up to see how it would be shot down. Most input has been constructive and useful and helps me make an informed decision.

And let us not forget what chassis Mr Wilkes built the first centre steer landy on too:wasntme:

[2 rocks]

Paul
Yes I have to confess to secret, evil thoughts of trading both in on an Unlimited in Rescue Green :wasntme: but I'd miss the green oval too much!

I always wanted one of those yellow & black "Game" 90's but they were too old for what I needed it to do and Shorty Deefers were out of my price range...and I wanted an easy to use hard/soft top combination. :cool:

ATB
Mike

[Only Rovers]

I am Lost......:confused:

For me

Heart = land rover

head = land rover

are you forgeting just how good these trucks are??

I get to drive nearly every of 4wd there is on the market for work..including JEEPS

There is nothing like a land rover... NOTHING! :D


theres a reason the Jeep salesman is working so hard at it and being nice.. He has to!

How else will he convince someone to buy a jeep..:wasntme:

[xsi]

Hey Slunnie,

Im pretty sure the rubicon doesn't use a slip yoke.

btw, heres my new toy, very pleased with it and Im not a ******:)

Its a '99 TJ

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/06/643.jpg

[numpty]

The Rubicon is 73.144:1

Gear Ratios
1st.... 4.46
2nd.... 2.61
3rd.... 1.72
4th.... 1.25
5th.... 1.00
6th.... 0.84
Reverse.... 4.06
Axle Ratio.... 4.10
High Range Ratio.... 1.0:1
Low Range Ratio.... 4.0:1

Pretty impressive hey.

I agree, those figures are impressive.

But.....would engine braking, even with those ratios, with the petrol engine, match that of the Defender?

[isuzurover]

I agree, those figures are impressive.

But.....would engine braking, even with those ratios, with the petrol engine, match that of the Defender?

It may be better!!!

People have been complaining that the anti-stall feature on the defender keeps the revs at 1000rpm or higher, even when going downhill.

AFAIK the jeep idles at about 700rpm.

[Slunnie]

Hey Slunnie,

Im pretty sure the rubicon doesn't use a slip yoke.

btw, heres my new toy, very pleased with it and Im not a ******:)

Its a '99 TJ

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/06/643.jpg
Ahhh good stuff. Sounds like the new transfer did away with it then.

Nice 4WD by the way! Is that ex-ARB? Looks like already you're showing it no mercy. :D

[Slunnie]

It may be better!!!

People have been complaining that the anti-stall feature on the defender keeps the revs at 1000rpm or higher, even when going downhill.

AFAIK the jeep idles at about 700rpm.
If there was a difference either way, you'd just put your foot on the brakes anyway. Brakes are pretty good these days compared to the old Series single circuit setups.

[Sleepy]

Back to the thread.
(And thanks again for the interest and input)

It would be easy for us to let this thread degenerate into a Defender vs. J**P thread. Defender would easily win. (Although on the J**P forum the Rubicon would probably win :) )

I know you guy/gals love your deefers - me too. My question is does the J**P compare. I think we have answered that. Yes it does compare. Let's face it - every 4wd is a compromise. Overhang, gearing, economy, durability, noise levels, comfort, rampover, clearance, vision, safety... It's all about what do you want to compromise and what do you need the vehicle for.

I have always felt the deefer has the best compromise for me, its great no question. Others will have their preferred vehicle (We could have a similar argument with Disco vs. Cruiser or Xtrail vs. Freelander). Now I am convinced that I will add the J**P into the equation. Not that it is better or worse but it IS worth considering.

[Slunnie]

Others will have their preferred vehicle (We could have a similar argument with Disco vs. Cruiser or Xtrail vs. Freelander).
There would be no similar argument. The Disco would win hands down.

[numpty]

We all make our vehicle choices because of what we either want/like/perceive to be the best for us. Whether this is the best vehicle or not is largely irrelevant. I like the Jeep adage...."It's a Jeep thing"........ I've used this analogy in the past to explain my choice of vehicle.

What you want ......... is what you'll get.:p And good luck whichever way you go.

[2 rocks]

I know you guy/gals love your deefers - me too. My question is does the J**P compare. I think we have answered that. Yes it does compare. Let's face it - every 4wd is a compromise. Overhang, gearing, economy, durability, noise levels, comfort, rampover, clearance, vision, safety... It's all about what do you want to compromise and what do you need the vehicle for.


Paul
You're spot on! Not forgetting appearance - and I just happen to like both! :)

You know what you want the vehicle for and what you like about each - in the end I am sure you will make the right decision - whichever it is, because it's your choice for your reasons! And that's what it's about...

While broadly similar in execution the D90 and Wrangler have different intentions. The D90, imho, is designed for a number of 4WD applications - military/commercial/recreational. The Wrangler is almost exclusively a recreational 4WD - but if you look at the US sites - a very capable and successful one. (Give me a sec while I put on my flame-proof suit. :D

And Mil-spec isn't always best - from what I gather the H1 is a bloody awful rock/trail crawler - but stick it in the middle of Desert Storm and it's a ripper!

BTW - Xsi - nice rig! Looks like Moss Green same as mine, but yours already looks pretty much like I want mine to! :D
Cheers
Mike

[Sleepy]

Fantastic input from all. I think this was an argument worth having. (We could probably end it here or we'll start going around in circles....donuts?).
Holden vs. Ford, Nissan vs. Cruiser, Yamaha vs. Kawasaki, AFL vs. NRL, Clinton vs Obama.
There is no correct answer. It really is each to his own.

Head 13 Heart 13

It's a draw. Now for the penalty shoot out:D:D

[Slunnie]

Head 13 Heart 13

It s a draw. Now for the penalty shoot out:D:D
Penalty shoot out question is this:

"I just want one".... apart from an HSV where the phrase was taken from, which of the 2 selected 4WD's came into your head first?

[Sleepy]

Slunnie,

Yeah pretty obvious isn't it?

Just over a year ago I had one Landy - my pride and joy D90. Made me smile every time I drove it - still does.
Then the missus worthless Magna died. "Hey darling what about this one?". Soon became a Disco and Deefer family :)
Then came the mid life crisis - "I know I'll get a S11 to restore".
Now that I have three Land Rovers I am not so worried about going back to two.
(Puts on flameproof suit, presses send and assumes the crash position.)

[Greylandy]

Slunnie,

Yeah pretty obvious isn't it?

Just over a year ago I had one Landy - my pride and joy D90. Made me smile every time I drove it - still does.
Then the missus worthless Magna died. "Hey darling what about this one?". Soon became a Disco and Deefer family :)
Then came the mid life crisis - "I know I'll get a S11 to restore".
Now that I have three Land Rovers I am not so worried about going back to two.
(Puts on flameproof suit, presses send and assumes the crash position.)

Easy .. get rid of the Disco and the SII, get the new four door Wrangler and keep the D90. Wrangler is refined enough for the wife to drive and you get to play with it over the weekend. You will be happy with the Wrangler BUT you will sure as hell miss the D90. Discos are like Toyotas, you don't get attached to them like you do with a Defender! ;o) (Trying to deflect the flames from you Sleepy!)

P.S: If not .. shoot me a PM when you decide to sell the D90.

[Sleepy]

Can't lose the SII!
That's my mid-life crisis project - sell that and I'd have to get a yellow sports car, hair transplant and a pony tail!!!:D:D:D

[juddy]

The answer to crap Oz Land Rover dealers, is A start your owner dealship or start importing them...

[isuzurover]

If there was a difference either way, you'd just put your foot on the brakes anyway. Brakes are pretty good these days compared to the old Series single circuit setups.

Ahh - but the problem with the anti-stall system is it will out-drive the brakes. So with a defender, you will always be doing 1000 rpm minimum, whereas in a jeep you could be doing even less than 700 rpm (when braking down a hill).

It cannot be switched off AFAIK.

[ORC1]

Hello All

A very interesting thread, I'm starting to understand that Land Rover dealers just don't care about their customers in Australia. Perhaps the new owners might improve things???

With regards to the LR, Jeep debate, I think there are pros and cons to each vehicle, I love LRs but also have a soft spot for Jeeps as they have a long and similar heritage. Personally I prefer the 300 Tdi Defenders over the new version and would consider spending my money on buying one and then adapting it to my needs.



Cheers

Loz

[JamesH]

I love that Jeep in the picture but my head can't get past the lack of diesel option so far.

My heart is all Defender and that's what I'd go for everytime without even bothering to consult my head, but if The Apocalypse that we all fear happened, I could go to Jeep and survive. It would be a life without joy, merely an existence but thanks to Jeep at least I could drive around with a broken heart instead of walking.

I like camping and touring the outback in my Defender. It's not just about camping and touring, it's camping and touring in a Defender.

I loved Solmaniac's "stands for purpose" comment. Quote of the Day

[Sleepy]

Whilst I new I'd get some bites on this thread, I didn't expect nearly 1400 views in 3 days. :eek::eek: Seems like I've hit a nerve :D:D

[Sleepy]

I'd suggest having a nose around on ausjeepoffroad.com as well,


Hey you were right Mike:D

JK 4dr V Defender 110 - AUSJEEPOFFROAD (http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/showthread.php't=77224)

[2 rocks]

Hey Paul
Yeah, I didn't read the whole thread, but as you can see there is respect on both sides. I think that has a lot to do with both vehicles' history, respective capabilities and the fact that neither Land Rover nor Jeep owners are Toy/Niss/Mits/whatever owners - and there is something a little different about the vehicles that means we like it that way. (Hence my desire to have one of each ;) ).

And I agree that for touring the 110 Deefer would be my choice over the JK Unlimited (4dr) - the extra space alone just sells it!

But for me, and I stress "for me", I have the Disco for that stuff, and summer-time trail rides in the TJ with the top down are brilliant. Bit like being on a motorbike - you can smell the bush (and dead roos!) in a way you never can in a hardtop even with the windows down. So it would be the Jeep on that score! Now I don't have the bucks for a D90 even if it was available and in a soft-top - so I have 2 very different vehicles for different things.

Ahh, variety is the spice of life!!!

Oh, and top work on the number of views! :D:D:D:cool:

(if you're ever on ausjeep - you can find me as Shetani ;) )

Cheers
Mike