QLD - Mt Mee SF

[WhiteD3]

Bad news I'm afraid.

After seeing the track closures I emailed QPWS as follows:

To whom it may concern,

I would like an explanation for why some 4WD tracks in the Mt Mee SF have been closed. Specifically those north of the Gantry.

I belong to reputable and incorporated 4WD club. We go out of our way not to damage tracks and never venture off the tracks. We feel these closures are unfair and unjust and are penalising responsible users of the state forest.

I also want to know about future planned closures.

Looking forward to your detailed reply.

They replied:

Dear Mr Orchard, I am unable to answer your email in detail without specific locations of the tracks in question. Please phone me on (07) xxxx xxxx, during office hours, to discuss in further detail.

I can assure you that nothing is being closed that was legally accessible to 4WD vehicles five years ago. I have a good working knowledge of the Mount Mee area over the last twenty (20) years and remember well the roads and tracks that were accessible to 4WDs when Forestry had onsite staff managing the area. In the five year period that elapsed between Forestry relinquishing management of the area and Parks & Wildlife taking over management, the public removed numerous restricted access signs from tracks, which resulted in the un-authorised use and damage of many of these tracks by 4WDs and trail bike users of the Reserve. I have been told that allegedly reputable 4WD clubs have been responsible for establishing a number of 4WD hill climb tracks on steep, previously vegetated and undisturbed hillsides in the Park that QPWS needs to close and rehabilitate urgently, due to the scale of environmental damage that has occurred in these areas. Would these be the tracks you are referring to?

You need to be aware that Mount Mee is to become a NATIONAL PARK within the next twelve months and that the primary purpose of National Parks is the permanent preservation of nature to the greatest possible extent. It is QPW’s charter and responsibility to manage the protection of nature in conjunction with the amount and type of recreational access provided to the public and this will be duly determined through the formulation of a management plan for the area over the coming twelve months.

The other factor determining the ultimate status of track access to the public in the future will be the risk assessment process conducted by Work Place Health & Safety Officers, as a direct result of the Coroner’s inquest into deaths at Black Duck Valley. Mount Mee National Park will hopefully never become a “Landcruiser Park”, but QPW aim to continue to provide a high quality outdoor opportunity for the passive recreational use of 4WDs and trail bikes in the Reserve, as long as the environmental impacts are sustainable in the long term and that the main objective of our users is the appreciation of nature, not competitive or vehicle vs nature.

Yours sincerely,

XXX

I'm going to ring him tomorrow but obviously its a hopeless cause:(.

From a conservation perspective I can see the logic having seen the damage the bikes and extreme 4WDers can do (Sunday arvo, as we were leaving:eek:). But people like me and those I've been out with, who rove the tracks slowly for the enjoyment of a day out, are or will be bitterly disappointed.

I've thought back through my trips out there and the vids I took. Sure there were sections of hill climbs were "vehicle vs nature", but these might have been a 10 or 20 metre section of a 10k track, even then the object is to get up/down safely, not to tear up the track.

...lost for bloody words!

[Utemad]

Well I like to go 4wding in Mt Mee SF (although very rarely do) and have driven on some of the 'extra' tracks but totally agree with what he is saying.

When I bought my first 4wd about 8 years ago Mt Mee was one of the first places I took it. If you have a copy of the old forestry map you will see that the roads you are permitted on are marked in solid red line (marked somehow anyway). These roads are mostly what we would call the access roads to the good stuff.

I think the permits used to say the only tracks you were allowed on where the ones suitable for two way traffic.

[WhiteD3]

Well I've got topo maps and info from their website and nowhere (that I've seen) on their site, on the state govt maps or on sign posts in the park do they say don't drive here/there.

I'll clarify that: There are tracks posted "horses only" or with pics of 4WD and bikes with a red line through them at the entry to some tracks. I have not been down these tracks, although they appear to be largely ignored, the signs that is, by the bikers.

I'm all for pristine wilderness but if you can't drive in a NP and SFs are being closed off, and if private 4WD parks are being sued by idiots who don't want to take responsibility for their own actions, where do you go?

Its somewhat like banning us all from driving at night with a passenger because the vast minority (fools in gray imports) are out there driving like maniacs.

Not happy Jan:mad:

[Utemad]

Well I just looked at the track file I took in Nov 07 and it only shows three deviances from the allowed tracks. That map was printed in Feb 1994.
It's a DPI Forestry map.

When I went there originally in 2000 I don't remember signs that said 'don't go here' on all the closed tracks but the map was marked as to where you could and could not go.

Personally I'd prefer to go to a 4wd park for the weekend but it was nice to have somewhere closeish to go for a day trip (about an hour from my place).

[Frenchie]

Yours sincerely,

XXX



At least he likes you. ;)

[WhiteD3]

At least he likes you. ;)

:lol2::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

[WhiteD3]

Had a long chat to the Ranger in Charge today. Basically the whole area is planned to be a NP by year end. Many of the smaller tracks will be closed to motorized vehicles, initially with bollards and later with gates.

He did say that some of the smaller tracks will remain open and that the level of access/use is under review.

They are developing a map for the web site showing which tracks are accessible, which are closed, etc. Apparently there has been an issue with signage being removed from some closed tracks. Wet weather signage is also being considered.

They are looking for stake holder interest and comment on the management plan and I gave him the AULRO site as a starting point.

The Black Duck Creek incident was raised again and I countered with the recent bush walking deaths at Cunningham's Gap and the Glasshouse mountains; are they going to ban bush walking? I think not.

In summary; he seemed like a nice enough bloke but under-resourced as you'd expect, he listened but I doubt I or we will have any impact on what's planned.

By the by; Apparently there was a rescue in there on Sunday night involving at least one "serious" offroader being bogged and lost in the plantation, which does nothing for our cause. I think we saw them entering the forest as we were leaving.

[Aaron]

Has anyone seen the tracks in the plantations up there? I really would not like to be stuck there. I came accross tracks there last week before rain that where still boggy after how many weeks without rain? I also came across powerline tracks that I didnt relise were there on Mt Mee.

[JohnE]

well done, it was a worthwhile effort but they obviously have an agenda, I never been there and by the sound of it, will never.

this is an example of what has been slowly happening over the years, dare i say it,i will, most of the government bodies and authorities have been taken over by the 'green' preservationists.
The idea with all these national parks and the like is to lock everybody out who likes to drive and your only access is by shanks pony.

The people who like to supermodify 4wds with giganto lift kits and huge lugged tyres do not help the cause at all, they need somewhere to tear up to prove they can offroad expertly, definately not in the spirit of 'tread lightly'

my rant over


john

[solmanic]

I'm all for pristine wilderness but if you can't drive in a NP and SFs are being closed off, and if private 4WD parks are being sued by idiots who don't want to take responsibility for their own actions, where do you go?

Buy a farm :p

[WhiteD3]

Buy a farm :p

Or know someone with one:twisted:

[Utemad]

Thanks for the updates WD3.

I suspect more buhwalkers die each year in the bush than 4wders.

[tolinja]

Gday,
You are much more likely to die on the way to a NP / SF then when you are there using these tracks.

cheers
tony

[TP7]

I commend your effort White D3. However while the 4wd and dirtbike community speaks with a multitude of small voices nothing will happen.

All interest groups that actually get what they want from government do so through a singular large voice called a lobby group.

There are several groups that stand to lose in the current trend.
1) Vehicle manufacturers
2) Aftermarket manufacturers and retailers
3) Consumers / enthusiasts

The first 2 need to reinvest back into the past time and the 3rd need to mobilise as a force behind 1) & 2). Also they need to act responsibly as it is the few irresponsible people who give the people with the power the ammunition to close us down.

Until vehicle manufacturers, aftermarket suppliers and consumers/enthusiasts unite and form a single lobby group to champion the cause we will continue to lose. Once it is gone it is gone for good.

[VladTepes]

TP7 is exactly correct ! Hit the nail on the head.

So let's get our heads together and work out what can WE do about it ?


If there is anyone here from 4WDQLD - what is going on from your point of view.

WhiteD3- can you PM or email me a copy of your original letter and the answer? I'll write to them again from another club, and ask them what the latest is. There are certainly plenty of bollards and gates which have turned up there now !

This whole turning SF's into Nat Parks is a disgrace, aimed only at being able to say "We made xx hectares of land NP" - to pretend to be green for election time.

I detest the "Let's lock it up and protect it so future generations can also NOT see it" attitude.

The less use these tracks have, the more litter builds up, the worse the fires are when they inevitably come through.

You may all be interested to know that they are much more progressive in NSW with shooting (hunting for deer etc) being allowed in many SF's as long as a particular (obtainable!) licence is held.

[MickG]

I detest the "Let's lock it up and protect it so future generations can also NOT see it" attitude.

Couldn't agree more:mad:

[WhiteD3]

WhiteD3- can you PM or email me a copy of your original letter and the answer?

Mate, my email and their response is the first post in this thread. Keep in mind their other issue (or excuse) being safety. When I spoke to the Head Ranger he raised the issue of 4WD deaths and injuries (this was around the time of the Black Duck incident).

Cheers.

[solmanic]

As nice as the Mt Mee area is for off-roading (and it really is nice), I struggle to get worked up about them closing bits of it. We aren't exactly short of places to play here in SEQLD. A quick glance at any cadastral map shows kilometres of gazetted roads in the Brisbane Valley which (provided they aren't gated by cranky farmers) can be driven up. Then there's the Glass House Mountains area, and Cooloola/Noosa North Shore, and Jimna region, and the area near Cunningham's Gap and so on... And that's before you consider pay and play areas like Rover Park & Landcruiser Park.

Grab any mag from the UK and read what real restrictions are like. We still have it pretty good!

...but place a petition under my nose and I'll still sign it.

[mark2]

As nice as the Mt Mee area is for off-roading (and it really is nice), I struggle to get worked up about them closing bits of it. We aren't exactly short of places to play here in SEQLD. A quick glance at any cadastral map shows kilometres of gazetted roads in the Brisbane Valley which (provided they aren't gated by cranky farmers) can be driven up. Then there's the Glass House Mountains area, and Cooloola/Noosa North Shore, and Jimna region, and the area near Cunningham's Gap and so on... And that's before you consider pay and play areas like Rover Park & Landcruiser Park.

Grab any mag from the UK and read what real restrictions are like. We still have it pretty good!

...but place a petition under my nose and I'll still sign it.

Yes, there's lots of unmade road reserves out there, but have you ever tried doing any real 4WDing on them? They usually either fenced off, or unfenced so they are effectively part of private property and you will feel like you're trespassing the whole time, and probably will be, without an accurate GPS. In any case its usually no more interesting than driving accross a paddock:eek:

Dont put your hope in them...........

[solmanic]

True, some are paddocks and many wander outside the road reserve, but then again there are tracks like this...

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/4336/080322highview017hw1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Has there been any update to this? I'm thinking of going up there for a little drive in the country some time soon.

Is there a good map of the area?

[WhiteD3]

Has there been any update to this? I'm thinking of going up there for a little drive in the country some time soon.

Is there a good map of the area?

Haven't been back there for a long time but I doubt they'd be pulling down gates and bollards. Drop me a line when you go as I'd be up for a drive through there again.:D

[jerryd]

I tend to go up there every 2-3 weeks, a lot of tracks are still open so there are still places to play :)

I was thinking of going up again on the 23/8 if anybody fancies joining in. Maybe a sausage sizzle on the bbq's at lunchtime

[Newbs-IIA]

So much for turning it into a National Park :angel:

honestly... what's the point in conserving something if we can't go and see it without the use of a helicopter :(

Same thing is happening on Fraser Island. Ngkala rocks bypass track got washed into the ocean and the way I see it is that the QPS/EPA want to take advantage of this and completly close off the top of the island (the best part imo) by not bothering to open up a possible inland track to the cape :mad:

Part if the reason is that governments such as Labor rely on The Greens preferences to get into office and therefore have to do things like this to keep the greenies happy...

BLOODY FRUSTRATING :mad: :mad: :mad:

[WhiteD3]

I agree but there's another more practical reason. Its cheaper for the Govt to do nothing then something. QPW have no money for new tracks or development, so they either do zilch or close tracks off.

IMHO