Can you believe this?

[abaddonxi]

Just read this in the paper.

How can it be that it's been 63 year and Kevin Rudd is the first Western leader to visit Hiroshima?

Talk about closing your eyes to the past.:eek:

Cheers
Simon

PM to launch anti-nuke plan - World - smh.com.au (http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/pm-to-launch-antinuke-plan/2008/06/09/1212863499726.html)


PM to launch anti-nuke plan

Phillip Coorey
June 9, 2008 - 1:36PM




Prime Minister Kevin Rudd - the first Western leader to visit Hiroshima after it was destroyed by an atomic bomb in 1945 - will today announce a proposal for an international nuclear disarmament commission to oversee ridding the world of nuclear weapons.

The commission will be co-chaired by former foreign minister Gareth Evans and will be announced in a speech at Kyoto university.

Mr Rudd used his visit to the city to call for worldwide nuclear disarmament.

He toured the city's peace memorial park above where the bomb was detonated.

After a sombre tour of the museum, Mr Rudd said Hiroshima should cause the world community to resolve once more to exert every effort in the pursuit of peace.

"We, the people of the Asia Pacific region, should resolve afresh that this Asia Pacific century will be a century of peace," he said.
"And for the world at large, we should aspire for a world free of nuclear weapons."

Mr Rudd is expected to expand on his comments at an address to students at a Kyoto university this afternoon.

Phillip Coorey is the Herald's Chief Political Correspondent

[WhiteD3]

I think there may have been issues with Japan refusing to acknowledge their sins in the war. From what I understand (and I could be wrong) they have expunged any wrong doings on their part from their history books, don't teach their school students what happened, etc.

[Jamo]

Talk about closing your eyes to the past.:eek:



Yes, but mostly by the Japanese.

I actually met a japanese girl a few years ago who had no knowledge of the Japanese invasion of SE Asia and thus of the attrocities committed there. She had thought that the allies had attacked Japan!

[Bigbjorn]

Three of my cousins were in the 8th. Dvn. Second AIF and were prisoners of the Japanese in Malaya and on the Burma Railway. One died there. The surviving brothers suffered conseqent poor health for life. They maintained to the end of their days that the Japanese race should be outside the protection of law. One of them used to say that it was a pity that the Yanks only had two of those bombs.

[PhilipA]

I remember the shocked looks on my Japanese TAFE students when I played "The Pacific Century " videos which showed the Japanese massacres in China , and the medical experiments in Siberia.
They had no idea.
regards Philip A

[DeeJay]

Added to the above, which is well known & I've similar experiences with Japanese exchange students my sister has hosted,- they know diddly about WW2,- there was a lot of persistant myths about radiation and that kept a lot of people away from Hiroshima & Nagasaki.
It would be last on my visiting wish list too.;)
Also
The cynic in me says Rudd has found a way to get air time by being the first.

[solmanic]

That's interesting. I was there in 1987 when Rev. Jesse Jackson was laying a wreath in the Hiroshima Peace Park. I guess he doesn't count as a "leader" though since he was only vie-ing for the Democratic nomination at that stage which he didn't get.

[solmanic]

there was a lot of persistant myths about radiation and that kept a lot of people away from Hiroshima & Nagasaki.
It would be last on my visiting wish list too.;)

Actually, people affected by the bombs are treated as an underclass and called "Hibakusha". There is still a lot of stigma associated with those who suffered radiation related illnesses and birth defects. In fact Japan in general is a quite discriminatory society when it comes to class distinctions - I guess that's just one of the things you get when you have such a homogenous society.

[rick130]

The far right in Japanese politics have succeeded in virtually expunging all references to what led up to and happened during WWII out of Japanese School History books.
There is a small section of teachers trying to redress the balance (from our perspective) but they are up against a majority who just don't want to know and a small, vocal minority who think that Tojo was right !

It's interesting to compare the collective reaction to the Germans, who generally appear quite shameful about Nazism and WWII.

The lack of acknowledgement about what happened in Korea, (Japan 'annexed' the Korean peninsula in 1910) China and then WWII is what still flames so much antagonism towards Japan in the rest of Asia.

[JDNSW]

Agree with most of the above. For those who may have missed being informed on the war, the book "Kokoda" being serialised on ABC local radio at 0545 each week day is worth listening to.

John

[loanrangie]

A mate of mines elderly mother was visiting Pearl Harbour and while she was at the memorial for the Arizona , a pair of Japanese tourists were looking into the harbour and asking where the ship layed, she muttered under her breath "its right where you f..king well left it ". I nearly wet myself :D.

[olbod]

I have always seriously thought that dropping those A - bombs there, was a big mistake...
It should have been tokio !

A couple more on the Whaling fleet ports would have been good too.

Forgive and forget ? Never.

[RonMcGr]

Three of my cousins were in the 8th. Dvn. Second AIF and were prisoners of the Japanese in Malaya and on the Burma Railway. One died there. The surviving brothers suffered conseqent poor health for life. They maintained to the end of their days that the Japanese race should be outside the protection of law. One of them used to say that it was a pity that the Yanks only had two of those bombs.

I agree with your Cousin.

[RonMcGr]

The far right in Japanese politics have succeeded in virtually expunging all references to what led up to and happened during WWII out of Japanese School History books.
There is a small section of teachers trying to redress the balance (from our perspective) but they are up against a majority who just don't want to know and a small, vocal minority who think that Tojo was right !

It's interesting to compare the collective reaction to the Germans, who generally appear quite shameful about Nazism and WWII.

The lack of acknowledgement about what happened in Korea, (Japan 'annexed' the Korean peninsula in 1910) China and then WWII is what still flames so much antagonism towards Japan in the rest of Asia.

That's the Japs for you!
Three blind monkeys..

[Outlaw]

WATCHING
Getting very close to crossing lines here people.... watch the way you express your views as could be perceived as racist if in the right light :mad:

[rick130]

And I think most are missing (some intentionally) the point of Simon's first post.

[Utemad]

As terrible as it is that Japan or any country would try to hide their past we are not entirely different.

I saw a documentary of Gallipoli where a Turkish soldier was saying that he could see into our trenches or whatever and saw our officers/higher ranks forcing our soldiers to get out of the trenches and go to a certain death. After watching wave after wave getting cut down by machine gun fire they just kept pushing them out. I have read that elsewhere too so it is not entirely blanked out of our history but it is not exactly the heroic/romanticised tales we get told in our history books is it?

[29dinosaur]

One day telling the Arabs to up oil production. Next day telling the world to get rid of nukes..... Where has this bloke been? Backflips on his recorded statement wrt Iraq. The leader of a nation of 20+million thinks he's important. Krudd is just another political opportunist of the worst kind. What an inflated ego Elma Fudd has of himself IMHO....

As a matter of interest is there still radioactivity in these places?? (Hirohima/Nagasaki?)

[abaddonxi]

Folks, I wasn't pointing my finger in any particular political direction, it just amazed me that Hiroshima and Nagasaki seem to be almost forgotten places for so long; sounds like forgotten by both sides.

Think of other notorious places, Auschwitz, Anzac Cove, for example, that have become shrines to the past.

Gotta say, every loss in a war is a tragedy. Doesn't mean that it isn't sometime necessary. Some places seem to be needed to reminded of places that we would rather not return to.

Cheers
Simon

[disco2hse]

I know NZ is a socialist state, but in most circles it still rates as a Western democracy. So Helen's visit in 2001 probably ought to count as a " Western leader" who has visited since the bombs were dropped. More info (http://tvnz.co.nz/view/tvnz_portable_story_skin/36648).

But maybe by "Western" they meant west of the Tasman ;)

[disco2hse]

A few more leaders that have visited:

Uruguay (http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-3790806/Uruguayan-president-visits-Hiroshima-appeals.html)

Croatia (http://www.hiroshimapeacemedia.jp/mediacenter/article.php'story=20080512173429952_en)

Switzerland (http://article.wn.com/view/2007/07/14/Swiss_vice_president_visits_Hiroshima/)

[Panda]

That must have been an interesting day!:o


I remember the shocked looks on my Japanese TAFE students when I played "The Pacific Century " videos which showed the Japanese massacres in China , and the medical experiments in Siberia.
They had no idea.
regards Philip A

[incisor]

As terrible as it is that Japan or any country would try to hide their past we are not entirely different.

I saw a documentary of Gallipoli where a Turkish soldier was saying that he could see into our trenches or whatever and saw our officers/higher ranks forcing our soldiers to get out of the trenches and go to a certain death. After watching wave after wave getting cut down by machine gun fire they just kept pushing them out. I have read that elsewhere too so it is not entirely blanked out of our history but it is not exactly the heroic/romanticised tales we get told in our history books is it?

huh?

what the hell has that got to do with this argument?

that was the ideology of the first world war... both sides of the war reduced it to one of attrition, the winner was the one with men still standing.. pretty open and well documented facts...

[Bigbjorn]

Croatia was on the same side as Japan.

[JDNSW]

Croatia was on the same side as Japan.

And Switzerland was neutral and so was Uruguay until February 1945!

John

[DustyDisco]

Kevin is just a do gooding opportunist....No, I don't like his style and i don't think he stands for anything other than being the 'good guy'.

Anyway,There are plenty of reasons why an Australian Prime Minister has not been to Hiroshima before and I am sure we could find plenty of international dignitaries who have been there before him.

Don't forget, the Japanese attacked sydney harbour, did awful things to our POWS, women included, they controlled most of the islands in the Pacific and if it wasn't for America, we would have had a hell of a time keeping them out of Australia.

The RSL when it was full of returned soldiers from WW2 was a very powerful lobby group right into the 80's .

Times have changed, which is great, but I am getting tired of seeing k rudd jump on every do good opportunity.

Ahhh, that feels better.