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View Full Version : What are these Hubs??? from S3'75 109



Sideroad
11th June 2008, 06:30 PM
I was at the wreckers today and a burnt/melted S3 109 1975 had these front hubs. I have never seen anything similar and was wondering what they do and if they are worth getting.
Seems a bit over the top just to lock the hubs.
I pulled one apart for pics. Quoted approx $35 per side. Any help would be great:)
Also it had a good con. Alloy bull bar and Radiator/bumper panel if any one is interested.

Thanks,
Sideroad

Aaron IIA
11th June 2008, 08:21 PM
These are free-wheeling hubs. In my opinion, they are a good design, different to the common sliding dogclutch versions. I would only pay $50 a pair though. Are they 10 or 24 spline? As they are fitted to a SIII 109", I would guess 24 spline.
Aaron.

UncleHo
12th June 2008, 06:08 AM
G'day Sideroad :)

Yes, as Aaron IIA has replied they are freewheel hubs, those and the bolt on bull bar both look as though they are/were genuine accessories as fitted when this vehicle was bought new:) they are a very good design and quality, from memory they are the 10 spline type (coarse spline) and if you have the coarse splines in your Ser 3 or 2/2a they will fit, price is fair ;)

cheers

rick130
12th June 2008, 06:36 AM
Dad's Jeep Wagoneer had them too when I was a kid in short pants. He always kept a screwdriver in the glove box so he could lock them.

Phoenix
12th June 2008, 07:28 AM
my brothers series 3 shorty had them, they were selectro or something or other. worked well though.

Dinty
12th June 2008, 09:10 AM
G'day All, Just from the text 'said vehicle is a S3 109' and from the close up pic, the axle will be a invalid 24 spline shaft as fitted to S3 109.
I don't remember the brand name but they are not Selectro hubs, Selectro hubs were of alloy construction, the outer part of the hub rotated and internally was a ?? multi start thread? arrangement which engaged the inner hub connecting the axle, both these types of F/wheeling were robust enough for the task, cheers Dennis:wasntme:

Lotz-A-Landies
12th June 2008, 09:59 AM
Sorry folks, I cant agree with peoples assessment of those hubs. They weren't Selectro (those were the ones with the big external cap which could disengage if you ran over a rock or stump ), they were something like SUE. There was a special tool to engage/disengage them, which was like a piece of cut flat rod with a right angle and half circle end. Although that usually got lost so as Rick said a large screwdriver got used.

The problem:
When engaged all the load is applied outward to the cast aluminium housing in only the two locations next to the cam locks and would blow out the side of the case. It was even possible to only lock one camlock. Many people even applied several large hose clamps to each hub to reinforce them and I saw one pair where the owner had a steel band made to reinforce the hub. This caused more problems when you had to remove the wheel.

They are also huge when compared to other hubs.

Diana

Dinty
12th June 2008, 10:37 AM
G'day All, Like I said " They are not Selectro" dunno what they are, but they were a standard fitting by Land Rover, and imho Selectro were as robust as any others available at the time and I'm talking late 60's early 70's, and yes they did smash the outer part of the hub, but that was mainly due to driver error, driving techniques not a inherent design fault, just my observations from a long association with 4wd's cheers Dennis

Bigbjorn
12th June 2008, 11:28 AM
[QUOTE=Dinty;761737] but they were a standard fitting by Land Rover,

In my time at Leyland Truck and bus, no freewheel hubs were fitted at PMC during assembly to my knowledge. Maybe on large fleet orders but I never saw any come that way. Free wheel hubs for new vehicles were fitted by the retail dealer. In Qld. Leyland Truck and Bus, Rocklea were both the Brisbane area retail dealer and the Qld./Northern N.S.W. distributor. T&B did fit FW hubs to dealer vehicles on dealer request as well as to their own retail sales.

The usual type fitted were the ones with the large twist knob, I think they were Selectro but memory is not clear. Didn't need to know, just write FW hubs on the workshop order. I know we did fit other types but normally only on customer request.

Dinty
12th June 2008, 12:08 PM
G'day All, What I should have said as fitted by local dealers at purchasers request, another type that was available at the time were AVM, cheers Dennis:wasntme:

isuzurover
12th June 2008, 12:13 PM
I know 1 or 2 people who had those FWHs - they seemed to work fine. I also can't remember the name though.

Somewhere I have a Land Rover "Approved Accessories" brochure from the early '70s. FWHs and Fairey ODs are on the list, all available to be fitted by the dealer.


Personally, I pulled my FWHs (selectros) off and threw them away years ago. Noticed no difference in fuel consumption, and my top swivel bushes have stayed in much better condition.

stage1slave
12th June 2008, 05:33 PM
I have a set of those on my SWB. Diana is right! Badge says....MFG Under Licence By Shute Upton of Eng.
Also we have had this vehicle for many long years, and the hubs have not been problematic.
cheers
ER

dandlandyman
14th June 2008, 11:19 AM
All that I can read on mine is "Powerlock Hubs". The main advantage of them IMHO is that you can stand on them. And they don't break on wayward stumps and rocks. I carry my screwdriver in the seatbox reinforcer bars.

That's the first set of LWB Series 3 (24-spline) "Powerlockers" I've ever seen, though. All the ones I've got are 10-spline. I reckon a Series 2b Forward Control owner would love them... Not me, since I already have FWHs on mine, but someone...

Dan.
69 2a 88" pet4, 74 3 109" pet4, 68 2b FC pet6.

olmate
15th June 2008, 08:09 PM
All that I can read on mine is "Powerlock Hubs". The main advantage of them IMHO is that you can stand on them. And they don't break on wayward stumps and rocks. I carry my screwdriver in the seatbox reinforcer bars.

Dan,

Olmate has the same set. They read Powerlock Hubs then list the the directions for use before the 'Under Licence By Shute Upton of Eng' bit.

I have never had an issue with them being weak when belted around the scrub and short blokes like me appreciate them when you need to work under the bonnet. Screw drivers are the go to lock/unlock them.

UncleHo
16th June 2008, 03:44 PM
G'day Folks :)

Most dealers and sub dealers,had a selection of types of free wheel hubs, EI:Power Lock, Selecto, & AVM, these were listed along with External Sunvisors, Internal Sunvisors,Radio, Heater, Demisters Universal type (those little things with the suction cups on the ends), Ash Trays, Fog Lights, Driving Lights, Water Bag Carrier 2nd External Mirror, Mudflaps,Windscreen Washers,:) all those things that are now required by ADR's

Those Power Lock units were not a problem unit if used correctly BTW the usual advise to new owners was to engage all/any hubs for at least 50 miles in every 500 miles to lube the swivels (EP-90) as there is a lube hole in the base of the bushes.

cheers

dandlandyman
19th June 2008, 02:49 PM
Troy,

Those hubs have no problems with being belted about or stood on. The worst ones for that are the Selectro ones with the knob. I guess the Fairey ones could be bad, too, but I've only ever seen one set.

The Shute-Upton Powerlock hubs IMO are the best because you can stand on them and (in a pinch) glance them off stumps and rocks. Really, though, any of the AVM-type bar-drive-engaging-knob hubs are better than the old Selectros. Those spanner-drive MAP hubs wouldn't be too bad, either.

How do I arrive at this opinion? I have a box of broken old Selectro hubs, all broken in the same way. I can't find bits for any of the other types, though. I put AVMs on my FC.

Ok, all ranted out again.

Dan.
69 2a 88" pet4, 74 3 109" pet4, 68 2b FC pet6.

Aaron IIA
19th June 2008, 08:32 PM
I once had the same opinion of the MAP hubs. I thought that they looked strong, and I liked their engaging technique. But after fitting them earlier this year, I have a different view. They use four keys that have springs to engage them into keyways, with a camplate to retract the keys to enable freewheel. Under load, the keys pop out from their keyway. This is probably due to the keys being tapered, which aids in thier insertion. As any engineer knows, if you load up a tapered key, it wants to pop out. There is only a light spring to attempt to prevent this. I will in the future re-machine the keyways square, and get new square keys.
Aaron.

JDNSW
19th June 2008, 08:50 PM
For what it is worth, my 2a is currently running Warn hubs. I got these of the remains of an early 2a I paid $15 for. Rather to my surprise they were, when stripped, in as new condition. Heaven knows how much work they have done. I normally leave them engaged, disengaging them for long on-road trips (it is rarely used on road). Warn hubs seem to be rare on Series Landrovers, but were and are common on other four wheel drives, although obviously they were available. Anyone know why this is?

Incidentally, I have always wondered about the advice to run hubs engaged every 500miles or whatever - you can achieve the same (except it does not exercise the operating mechanism) by simply engaging four wheel drive (while stopped of course) and leaving it engaged until next time you stop. As this does not involve getting out and operating the hubs, it seems to me that it is much more likely to get done.

John

Lotz-A-Landies
19th June 2008, 10:01 PM
I have a set of those on my SWB. Diana is right! Badge says....MFG Under Licence By Shute Upton of Eng.
Also we have had this vehicle for many long years, and the hubs have not been problematic.
cheers
ER
Thanks S_1_S

These people who doubt one's information! :D :D :D

I said they were "SUE" and they were!!! :angel:

In truth, I also had a pair on my 1960 88" and never had a problem (and didn't even lose the tool), but then I only had the 2 1/4 litre engine and not a twin carb 186 S Holden donk with "Yella Terra" head and a bent to destroy my car up every rocky hill I saw. I am sure that some of the people who did break them must have left one of the camlocks disengaged forcing all the stress onto one side of the housing. After there are some ratbags out there, who are more likely to blame the machine rather than admit their own stupidity.

If they have lasted for 40 years, they are probably O.K for another 40.

Cheers
Diana

P.S. That's still not an admission of error. ;)

Lotz-A-Landies
19th June 2008, 10:13 PM
Troy,
... The worst ones for that are the Selectro ones with the knob. I guess the Fairey ones could be bad, too, but I've only ever seen one set.

The Shute-Upton Powerlock hubs IMO are the best because you can stand on them and (in a pinch) glance them off stumps and rocks. Really, though, any of the AVM-type bar-drive-engaging-knob hubs are better than the old Selectros. Those spanner-drive MAP hubs wouldn't be too bad, either.

Dan.
69 2a 88" pet4, 74 3 109" pet4, 68 2b FC pet6.
Dan did you know that Fairey and MAP are the same company, MAP is also known as Mayflower and were bought out by Fairey in the 1960's so lots of MAP products like the capstan winches became Fairey.

I believe that Fairey, is also the conglomerate who made the Fairey Swordfish bi-plane.

In terms of FW hubs, the early Warn hubs were the best, the later ones not as good as the early models and AVM is merely a copy of the Warn.

Unfortunately there are lots of problems with lubrication of Railko bushes when you have FW hubs as the oil is not splashed around and the bearing surfaces wear badly.

Diana

JDNSW
20th June 2008, 05:29 AM
....

I believe that Fairey, is also the conglomerate who made the Fairey Swordfish bi-plane.
......
Diana

Yes - see
Fairey Aviation Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairey)

John

Lotz-A-Landies
20th June 2008, 09:51 AM
... Warn hubs seem to be rare on Series Landrovers, but were and are common on other four wheel drives, although obviously they were available. Anyone know why this is? ...

John
John

Back in the 1970's people's preference (at least in the LROCS) were the chunky early Warn hubs. At the same time Toyota were also offering the conical shaped Warn hubs on Land Cruisers. To counter this Land Rover in Australia made the Selectro brand (with the big black external knob) part of their accessory range. The result was that people would have FW hubs fitted at the dealer and got Selectro.

By the late 1970's Warn had stopped supplying the chunky hubs for Land Rovers in favour of a conical design similar to the ones on the Land Cruiser. These were not popular as the engaging mechanism was quite small and difficult to use at times.

My take on the picture in any case.

Diana

Sprint
21st June 2008, 05:50 PM
speaking of the early warn hubs, i discovered a pair on a S2/A today