P38 Coil Conversion Kit [Archive] - Australian Land Rover Owners

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Matt R

14th June 2008, 11:02 PM

Hi to all,
I'm currently hunting around for a Coil Conversion Kit for my RR 98 4.0 SE. I've come accross plenty of suppliers in the US, but I was hoping to find someone in Sydney........ If anyone knows of a supplier in Sydney or Australia wide for that matter, it would be much appreciated to get some info.
Cheers Matt R.

p38arover

15th June 2008, 05:41 AM

KLR Automotive have done a few - possibly using the Bearmach kit.

rofosixone

17th June 2008, 01:24 AM

had my p38 96 model convertered at graeme coopers ,st peters sydney .

Matt R

17th June 2008, 11:29 AM

Hi Guys, thanks for your replies.:D

Question for rofosixone : How have you found the conversion ? Did you go with a standard conversion or with an extra lift ?

Any details would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Matt R.

rofosixone

17th June 2008, 11:37 PM

hi matt best thing you can do to a p38 is puting coils on, mine is british alantic made for p38 cost me all up 1,900 fitted.it is std height doesent handle like sports car any more ,now rides same as my old county .if you want more info i will send you my contact details as this will log out again before i finish ,this is the third time i am typeing this but there are pitfalls to the conversion and i can explain beter by voice ,no big problem cheers ralph ps once done you will never look back

adm333

18th June 2008, 11:25 AM

Sorry. Have to disagree.

One of the best things about a P38 is the unprecedented ride quality you get from the air suspension.

Overhauling the system is quite easy and waaaay cheaper than it used to be.

Check out www.rover-renovations.com (http://www.rover-renovations.com)

Dave

rofosixone

20th June 2008, 12:56 AM

hi adm 333, i admit you are right ,but haveing spent last 5 years 4,700 dollars in repairs there comes a time you say i dont want to do this any more .and as graeme cooper says i just dont want hassels any more .i have talked to matt and in 130,000 km he also is sorta fed up spending money .but dont get me wrong the air is a wonderfull system and 4.6motor would be too but i prefer coils and 4.0 motor ,its called dont want trouble any more cheers ralph.

rofosixone

22nd June 2008, 08:56 PM

just a foot note,if trying to find details on the web it is atlantic british (not british atlantic ,i was going of my memory). looked it up that is the right way to type it . then you click the first site go to the smart part search box and only type item no 9520lb and hey presto,there is information of the kit i have in my p38.hope it sorta answers your questions ,ralph

Hoges

15th January 2010, 12:24 PM

p38arover

15th January 2010, 12:37 PM

In that thread:

Both rolled while travelling on dirt roads, the one owner said vehicle started to osculate and it was over in seconds before he knew what had happened, vehicle write off, said his speed was around 70kmph

I want to know who/what the Rangie was kissing! Maybe the owner and he got so excited "it was over in seconds" ;)

VladTepes

15th January 2010, 01:10 PM

Hoges

15th January 2010, 05:50 PM

sorry VladTepes ...perhaps i should have started another thread... the argument this time is not about ride quality as such (that was a 2008 post...), but a suggestion from a recent post in Rangerovers.net that simply swapping airbags out for coils falsely assumes they behave the same and takes no account of engineering safety... the " poster" notes that two recent rollovers may have been directly related to coil conversions because the coils are located too far inward for proper stability when located in the airbag position...

PLUS he raises the valid point of potential rejection of insurance claims because of non-authorised changes to the factory design...
:eek:

thesaurus award of the month to RB... you're correct Ron...they certainly kissed their P38's goodbye!!;):p

Mr Moderator: this seems to be a potentially significant issue both from safety engineering and insurance ...does it warrant a separate thread?

karlz

15th January 2010, 10:39 PM

p38arover

15th January 2010, 11:26 PM

thesaurus award of the month to RB... you're correct Ron...they certainly kissed their P38's goodbye!!;):p

:D:D (Except for the apostrophe in P38's :mad: )

rofosixone

16th January 2010, 12:21 AM

now now ladies and gents i explained my reasons earlier why i converted ,as for ride /fit decent shocks ,i noticed instant improvment but air best still .as for roll over like vmystikilv says ,yet to do in mine and i dont pussy foot when i drive even around courners love throwing mine around them with 4wd grip magic ,but again not lifted but std height coils and low 65 not 70 or 85 size tyres .as for handleing went around eastern creek raceway at high speed around corners ect does lean on coils ,were air pumps to keep level but still grips like on railway tracks .good thing you have a choice with p38a (dam no leaves),another good thing is this site gives answers to people who havent had both /i have .ps got towed out by disco 2 with rasied coils and 85 tyres and he hasent rolled yet .i think that p38a driver on L plates OR HIS tyres and shocks must be worn out to do that at that low speed ./////// ps hey aussie did you see that photo of p38a on its bump stops /every time i drive past it this last month i think to my self sxxxxr.

Hoges

16th January 2010, 11:57 AM

:D:D (Except for the apostrophe in P38's :mad: )

Touché :D

81stubee

17th January 2010, 09:05 PM

My thoughts,

I absolutely love the EAS, but at the moment its giving me the ****s. I have spent countless hours trying to solve the problem's and leaks. And yes the only thing not replace is the air harness and ECU.

Now, if I was paying a mechanic $60-$80 per hour, I would be quite ready to switch to coils to avoid the costs.

I personally don't agree to changing to coils, due to the issues raised such as legalities, insurance, etc... But the cost of having someone spend so many hours fault finding must be huge. It is my understanding the you also cannot get castor correction bushes for the P38??? So lifting +2" would be quite deadly on the road.

I have played with my settings and have now realised why the EAS lowers out of extended height at 70km/h. Above this speed, the castor is such that it creates major oversteer, similar to my disco after the 2.5" lift.

If it's engineered and properly set up coils should be fine, but cannot be expected to provide anywhere near the ride quality of the Air Suspension.

Stu

p38arover

17th January 2010, 09:31 PM

If it's engineered and properly set up coils should be fine, but cannot be expected to provide anywhere near the ride quality of the Air Suspension.

Do you know what has really affected the ride in mine?

The change to 18" rims. The 16" rims have a higher profile tyre so they absorb the road shocks better.

You wouldn't think it would make much difference but I reckon it has.

81stubee

17th January 2010, 10:03 PM

Yes, but do they look as good as a nice set of 18's?:cool:

I don't think many people realise the difference (bad ride) that the 18's make, myself included. There was a discussion on rangrovers.net about how the rim size can affect the alignment. And apparently they wander more. I rang up AMV to say I had a wandering problem, he immediately asked whether I had 18's and had just had an alignment done? Reckons the 18's need slightly different toe setting.

Apparently it's all to do with the weight, balancing, tire type etc...

Me have two hands and build stuff :bangin:. I like to leave that to the so called "experts".

Stu

Hoges

18th January 2010, 10:16 AM

quote: Yes, but do they look as good as a nice set of 18's?

Ah ha! that's the problem... "Powerpoint syndrome" a.k.a " image over substance" ;) ...can't believe LR people wouldn't have done lotza testing to get the best compromise...:wasntme:

BTW... like you, I spent ages to find the elusive leak...even got a new valve block :(......finally traced it in both blocks to faulty seating of o-rings in the 3 non-return valves (even after replacement :eek:) ... they take a hec of a hammering... cleaned o-rings' sealing edges and valve seats with cotton buds dipped in white spirit... excellent results. Now holds its height for several days at a time (+/- 3-4mm) when parked...and no more dancing at the traffic lights!

adm333

18th January 2010, 11:14 AM

The stupidist thing to do with a P38 is to swap to coils.
Why would anyone want to do that?

The system is quite simple once you know about it.
Its easy to fix, once you know it.
Why do trucks run air suspension?

:eek: Methinks this may be a tad harsh.

I'm sure most owners would agree that they would prefer to have the fully functional EAS system, with no problems. However, in the real world of P38 ownership (if that is the real world at all) I can see that priorities may be different and the peace of mind that comes with a coil spring conversion, may mean a more enjoyable experience.

Previously, I had a 94 Classic which had a coil conversion done by the previous owner. Whilst I always wanted to know what it would be like with air, it had a beautiful ride and never gave me any trouble at all.

M.Allison

25th January 2010, 09:13 PM

Just to ignite further debate because I'm out of coffee :o:p

Interesting safety issues re. coil conversion. Have not seen stability issues mentioned previously wrt attachment position of coils vs airbags ...assumptions by castrators is that it makes no difference ...following article raises questions..

RangeRovers.net • View topic - EAS converting to coil spring warning**Deadly** (http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36442)

im just gonna put it out there in relation to that article i have had my coil conversion in now for about a year...i travel a dirt road every day at around 40 - 100kmph and i havnt once come close to randomly rolling it over...i also have a 2" lift on it aswell....hrmmm sounds a bit dodgy to me

Mike

PaulP38a

26th January 2010, 12:34 AM

im just gonna put it out there in relation to that article i have had my coil conversion in now for about a year...i travel a dirt road every day at around 40 - 100kmph and i havnt once come close to randomly rolling it over...i also have a 2" lift on it aswell....hrmmm sounds a bit dodgy to me

Mike

you are not trying hard enough Mike... I want to see action pics of your P38A drifting sideways on a dirt road at 80Kph+ ;)

I'd show you action pics of mine, but none of my mates non-LR's can keep up :p:p

Cheers, Paul.

rofosixone

26th January 2010, 12:39 AM

i tryed that with my road tyres /still here .
see above pic did it in semi dirt mud on that trip /still here.
tryed on race track as well /still here but at a higher speed .
mike put some raceing slicks you might make it happen then , give paulie a thrill.
god you p38a guys are funny sometimes,love reading these .
oh just remembered dont have 2 " lift like mike, have std coil height maybe thats why still stable on mine.theres allways a reason.

3toes

26th January 2010, 02:06 AM

Yes, but do they look as good as a nice set of 18's?:cool:

I don't think many people realise the difference (bad ride) that the 18's make, myself included. There was a discussion on rangrovers.net about how the rim size can affect the alignment. And apparently they wander more. I rang up AMV to say I had a wandering problem, he immediately asked whether I had 18's and had just had an alignment done? Reckons the 18's need slightly different toe setting.

I was tempted by a newer P38 Range Rover that was for sale near here. One of the reasons I did not take it on was that on the test drive the steering was wandering a lot on both surfaced and unsurfaced roads. Also the ride was not as good. Am wondering now if that was just the difference of 18's over the 16's on mine which was more evident to me in a back to back drive?

BigJon

26th January 2010, 09:24 AM

. Am wondering now if that was just the difference of 18's over the 16's on mine which was more evident to me in a back to back drive?

It would probably have contributed.

byjingo

10th April 2011, 04:15 PM

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum but have been following it for some time now. I have had my P38 for about two years now. Seemed to have all the EAS problems you could ask for including being standard in Quorn, South Australia for four days waiting for a replacement pump when ours got a 1 mm chip out of the teflon ring. No repair kits / second hand pumps in SA at the time (and too new to the P38 to know any better) so $750 later, four lost days, and one cranky family taught me this just isn't good enough.

In the end after countless other faults, leaks, $$$ and hours mucking around with it I took the plunge and converted to coils. It is the OME, off road height, system and appears so far to be quite good.

I have read the threads from other sites, including the two roll-overs that occured with cars on coils and have found so far that the coils don't seem to offer any difference at all in ride difference from the airbags.

What did make a huge difference though was the choice of shocks I put on it. I replaced the OEM shocks with Bilsteins about eight months ago and found the Bilsteins were softer and this did affect the handling significantly, particularly on the freeway from Adelaide to Murray Bridge which I do every day normally.

Once I got used to the new shocks and take a little more care when changing direction I found the conversion to coils didn't change the behaviour at all. When I do spend more money on the suspension at some later stage I will probably upgrade to Rancho 9000s so I can dial in the firmness I want to improve handling.

If you are considering a coil conversion I think staying with OEM shocks or upgrading to shocks at least as firm will see you quite happy with it.

One thing is certain though; as much as I loved the ability to change heights with the EAS I sure feel much better knowing I can go bush or anywhere for that matter and not have to worry about taking heaps of spares. In fact, it is not so much taking spares that is the real issue, it is the time it takes away from your holidays trying to fix the EAS that is the real killer. Hoping your bag of spares includes the item that goes wrong became too big a gamble for me.

The kit is from British Utah: OME $575.00 + $350P&H without shocks. Took one week to arrive and three hours to fit myself. I have to say I am dissapointed to loose the ability to change the height setting but that is all. Hope this helps anyone who may be considering this option.

wanglemoose

10th April 2011, 04:59 PM

im running pedders coils at spring rate of 160kg rear and 130kg front with foam cell shocks at 0 bound/rebound. it does wander a fair bit and handle like a tinny on the open ocean but its sooooo smooth over the rough stuff its worth the handling. as for the roll over stuff with the sway bar disconnected in the bush ive had it on leans where you can touch the ground out your window and still never feels like tipping over.

redandy3575

10th April 2011, 10:54 PM

Well if you ask me, changing a p38's suspension to coils is (in my opinion) is taking a step backwards and also removes what i think is a vital key feature of the Range Rover P38's off-road capability. Now without having too much of a dig at the japanese competitors, but when you see the likes of a patrol or landcruiser with their over stiffened coils go over a uneven steep hump on a track, you will notice that they tend to just about always lift a wheel into the air, hence the need for diff locks, LSD's etc. The Range Rovers, particularly the air bag models read the terrain far better and the BECM system will always try level out the vehicle letting the axle do all the articulation work, as the rise an fall of the air pressure in the airbags feedback information to the BECM. Now with coil you don't get any of that and you also notice how many of the japanese off-roaders bop and bounce over the terrain, all because the springs are not corresponding with the vehicle. If your going down the coil path, then you may as well not own a Range Rover and perhaps settle for Disco 1 or Defender. But as you will notice (as usual) other manufactures are slowly following suit i.e New Jeep Grand Cherokee, Volkswagen Toureg, M-B M class and GL have got air bag suspension. Even Toyota and soon to join New Nissan Patrol are moving towards adjustable suspension as they realise that future development in off road capability relies on newer spring technology.

The key i believe in staying ahead of problems with airbags is to learn a bit about their operation, also learn how to do basic repairs and last and most important thing of all is to regularly inspect the airbags, hoses and the pump and replace the air intake filter. Repair or replace any minor issues before they become a major one will ensure your Rangie will run at its optimum.

There, thats just my 2 cents worth.

Gippslander

11th April 2011, 07:17 AM

Mine is castrated as you say, apart from the wondering about ride with air i am more than happy with springs. 2" over may need castor bushes in the arms to give it better manners it is a common thing with higher springs that the caster angle deminishes. you end up with the equivelent of a shopping trolly to drive. Caster angle bushes are available at most off road stores.

Frank
ps it does power slide well on gravel!:angel:

glenhendry

11th April 2011, 07:23 PM

Also remember, coils can and do break. Is there possibly an insurance problem with coils, changing from a standard vehicle suspension without engineering cert?

I lurve the EAS and working on it is not hard. In my experience the thing that impresses passengers most about the RR. It's not perfect, but its my favorite part of my non perfect car.

Keithy P38

12th April 2011, 10:15 AM

It's a very personal choice to swap from EAS to coils. And everyone here has their own argument as to why each is better - myself included, and I suppose it comes to a price for most! At the age our P38's are we are all looking to be replacing some of the EAS components about now if we haven't already!

My argument towards keeping the EAS is also cost related. If you begin to have problems with air springs it's time to replace them - just as you would if you were driving on 10 year old coils! By now coils would be starting to sag, shocks would be due for replacement. At the current price for airbags i'd be replacing four of them for less than four coils and still have about the same expected lifespan out of them as I would coils. We simply need to spend a few bucks more when it comes to the rest of the EAS system. Again, once the little age-related things are fixed you'd expect a decent life out of them.

Nothing against coils though! Defenders and Disco's can flex like crazy! But i've got EAS and that's the way i'm staying!

Cheers
Keithy

BigJon

12th April 2011, 11:55 AM

I am assuming if you convert a P38 to coil springs you are required to get an engineers certificate for it. I would think you would need a lane change test done as a minimum.

PhilipA

12th April 2011, 01:54 PM

RR P38

12th April 2011, 10:37 PM

You will never see a heavily loaded P38 with a saggy rear end on the road (unless it has problems).
I dont seem to get more than 5yrs out of my Air bags before thay start to crack and leak.
I use OEMs.

byjingo

22nd April 2011, 11:09 AM

I spoke to Graeme Cooper about this many years ago when he still owned the business.

He told me that it is legal to change Classic airbags to coils as there were coil sprung versions of the same year sold alongside the air ones.

On the other hand there has never been a coil version of the 38A and a type approval was necessary to sell kits in Australia. because of the small volume he was unwilling to undertake type approval.

In individual cases each converted vehicle needs to be engineer certified to be legal.
I do not think this situation has changed.
Regards Philip A

G'day again all,

I contacted Tonkin's Automotive Engineers in SA to get their point of view on what would be required in terms of certifying the P38 for coils and in their opinion as long as the raised height did not exceed the 50mm allowed in SA and the replacement springs at least equaled the lbf/inch of the original springs there shouldn't be any reason to require an engineer's certification.

They put me onto Regency Park inspectors (SA Transport's vehicle inspection depot) and the inspector I spoke to said the same thing and he didn't see any reason to get the P38 inspected but did recommend notifying my insurance company to let them know.

In short, if you convert your P38 to coils (in SA at least) and stay within the 50mm lift from standard height (not offroad height) they have no issues with the conversion. BTW the use of packers is not allowed in SA so you will need to stipulate DS and PS when ordering your springs as a standard pair of springs will give you a 15mm droop on the driver's side.

I also contacted the Range Rover Club of SA who have members with P38s converted to coils and they said the same thing. No inspections required.

Hope this helps.

rofosixone

24th April 2011, 11:34 PM

your spot on , the frount drivers side (were talking drivers side in australia) is a minor prob due to extra weight of steering / battery ect on that corner,will look not level after conversion unless you play engineer (pack or mod spring) .
mind you with air the computor played god with that area hideing that uneven look on level ground or if you get a slow flat tyre while driveing it will pump it up makeing it look weird from inside the cabin.
as for other things quoted (insurance /on going wear and tear) i have had no probs ,and as i always sayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy -air controled p38a is still the best on /off road but coils make you rich again and i still do silly things off road in coils its just i got to work a bit harder and feel the bumps a bit more than norm (seen my pics on photobucket ?).