Quoting pictures?

[Lucus]

Hi Guys,
Just wondering if anybody else finds this as annoying as me? Does this affect the speed of this forum?


Im a mod on another forum and this is frowned upon greatly and generally cleaned up as it happens because we too have had issuses with forum speed.

Obviously its not viable to review old threads and remove the two and three times photos are quoted, i just wondered if it would be worth keeoing tabs on it in the future


cheers
Luke

[spudboy]

That is an excellent idea.

It's tedious to scroll through repeated pictures, often with just a short sentence commenting at the end of them. Must chew up some disk space as well.

[slug_burner]

It is tedious to scroll down the same pictures over and over, however I don't believe that it makes a lot of difference on speed as once down loaded the pictures would be reused everytime they are quoted. Also as the pictures are not kept on the forum but on some other location and just pointed at they don't take up any more room than a URL.

I could be wrong as I am no expert:wasntme:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

It makes a huge amount of difference if you are on dial up, like I am when down on the farm.

Personally even on the cable broadband I find it annoying if there is no reason for it. However there are occasions when to identify a single pic out of a group to make a reply understandable it is useful to copy the pic. BUT rarely!

Diana

[JDNSW]

I agree with all of the above, although I think the problem is not all that bad.

I recently went from dialup to satellite broadband, but have found it makes little difference to the speed of this site, although other sites are a lot faster now.

John

[Rosco]

........ I recently went from dialup to satellite broadband ........

John

More info please John. That's something I've been considering for a while, in relation to working in remote areas.

Cheers

[Bushie]

I thought that if a picture was quoted it was downloaded only once and embedded in the threads, not a separate copy downloaded each time.

Am I wrong ?? (It did happen once before when I was younger ;);))

I have to admit the number of repeated pics in a thread doesn't seem to make any difference to download speed - its either quick or takes ages to start, there doesn't seem to be a middle ground


Martyn

[incisor]

usually cached by your browser

but not always the case..

[Ben]

I should have replied here rather than Pedro's post...


The question is, "Do images displayed in quoted text slow the forum down?"

The expert answer is yes, but not for the reasons, nor necessarily to the effect, your average user might think.

(breaking out of quote for readibility sake)

This is a little rushed, but hopefully explains the process:

Images are referenced by their URL in posts, so the quoted text would have a few extra bytes that have to be sent. Not a issue when serving a hundred people, can be an issue when serving millions. Image files on the other hand are quite a lot more bytes. Lots of people requesting large images/files at the same time would be an issue.

At the user's end, the first time the image file is downloaded it will be saved in the web browser's temporary cache (unless the cache settings have been changed), as are HTML, CSS and JavaScript files. Subsequent requests for these files will be served with the local cached copy.

Files will eventually get removed from the cache - maybe the expiry date is reached, the cache is cleared, the cache reaches its limit and the file is the oldest in the cache (first in, first out), or the browser finds out there's a newer version (modified date) on the server. In this case, the file is downloaded again.

So, a forum page might have three requests for a large image. The original post, and two replies quoting.

If the image is not in the browser's cache, it is requested from the server. If your ISP has a cache, it might send you their version, otherwise AURLO will serve the image file once.

The browser then displays the same image three times. If you've got a slow connection, you can often see the three instances of the image displaying line by line at the same time. Memory is a factor, as the GUI subsystem has to put everything together for rendering, so this could affect lower-end machines.

Our user clicks to page two, where the image is displayed in four more posts. Once again, the web brower checks if the image is in its cache, if not it requests it from the server. Again, an ISP level cache might serve a copy, otherwise AURLO serves the request.

Some people change their cache settings. My work is building websites, so all my web browsers are set to always request a server's files so I see exactly what the server will be serving.

I still only request the image once from AULRO, regardless of how many times it appears on the page. But, I have to download the image again for each subsequent page that requires that file.


In a nutshell, do quotes containing images affect forum speed?

Server-wise, most likely negligible. The real hit is serving large files. Compounded by lots of users requesting large files at the same time.

User-wise, depends on hard-drive space (often a factor in cache-size determination), memory (has to hold all the display data), CPU power. Also internet connection speed - if that 2mb image on page 1 isn't cached, you'll redownload it when it's quoted on page 2, 3...

This isn't only an issue for low-end machines, it can affect devices like PDAs, internet-enabled phones, etc.

[JDNSW]

More info please John. That's something I've been considering for a while, in relation to working in remote areas.

Cheers

Under the Australian Broadband Guarantee, you can get subsidised satellite broadband if there is no alternative. (Provided it is a residence or a small business and you can only get the subsidy once). This is supposed to provide a "metro-comparable" service (at least 512/128, 1Gig for no more than $2500 over three years including establishment, equipment and provision of service). It is not available to temporary camps etc.

See Australian Broadband Guarantee - for Consumers | Department of Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy (http://www.dbcde.gov.au/communications_for_consumers/funding_programs__and__support/australian_broadband_guarantee_-_for_consumers)

After you register they will (if you are eligible) send you list of approved providers.

In my case there were nine on the list (it varies from time to time, and probably also according to where you are). I phoned each one and asked them a series of prepared questions, and also looked at their website.

For one, the phone number given (same one on their website) was not connected, a second one I am still waiting for them to return the phone call. The others varied in their helpfulness. The packages offered varied quite significantly - for example, lock-in went from none to three years, and probably most significantly, excess downloads were charged at widely varying rates, and only a couple had shaping instead of punitive excess data charges. Almost all of them used the same two contractors for installation, so the actual installation is not going to change very much. There are about four different satellites used, and this must make some difference, but I can't guess which is preferable.

I decided on Skymesh for the following reasons -
1. The phone is answered by a human who, moreover, has an Australian accent.
2. 30 day lock-in (they say we plan on your being so happy with us you won't want to change)
3. Shaping rather than excess charges, but with the option of buying extra blocks of data.
4. Lower modem power consumption (I think because they use a newer model)
5. Linux support (but in fact not needed - it just works when you plug it in)

It was a bit of a toss up between several of them though, and it looks as if most would be quite OK.

The actual installation is in my case a 900mm dish on the roof, with cabling to the modem (300x200x30mm) on my desk, plus an ethernet cable. The installer has a program on his laptop that tells him where to point the dish based on your lat/long from his GPS. Installation took about two hours, not including the time taken for me to pull him out of the sandy creek he got bogged in (I warned him, but was told "I'm ex-army mate, I know all about driving off road - no worries"; but perhaps not in a heavily loaded fwd VW van!). Just had to fill in the necessary username and password in the mail client, and it worked right off.

I have not used it long enough to get a real feel for it, but basically it works similarly to an ADSL connection, albeit a bit slower (I am on the base plan at the moment). What has surprised me is that quite a few sites (but not all of them) are just as slow as they were on dialup. There is around a 1 second latency, which would be a problem using it for VOIP, and would also be a problem for game playing etc.

This the sort of info you wanted?


John

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I think we should all come down and have a crack at this creek crossing of yours John!! Its reputation is growing:p

I've heard/read that satellite could be quite fast,,,
(clouds excepted) what speed is it supposed to be?

[JDNSW]

I think we should all come down and have a crack at this creek crossing of yours John!! Its reputation is growing:p

I've heard/read that satellite could be quite fast,,,
(clouds excepted) what speed is it supposed to be?

Mostly, but not when it has water in it, I drive across it in two wheel drive in the 2a, with tyres at 35psi - so it can't be too bad! When it is dry it takes some real skill to get stuck.

How fast is the satellite? My current plan is 512/256, fastest available from my supplier (skymesh) is 2048/512 (1G=$60 --> 5G=$160).

John