Steering Relay in Series Forward Controls.

[brookvale]

good stuff guys - it's what I need to hear.

I should have said 'adapters' and not spacers.
These things are either alloy or billet steel rings - bolt on and then bolt on wheels to the new studs
advert here (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=159865878)

All up I should probably leave well alone. The point about the loads on those front wheels is taken... my steering is heavy enough as it is

The new 3.9? - brilliant! still sucks lots of petrol though... Interesting that a mate on the 1000 mile run to LR60th event in his StageI got slightly better mpg than me - on 95 octane. But.. FAB is way heavier than his truck so we were about quits and I was on 91.

I still have to tinker with the throttle lever bell-cranks on the manifold - the action is too stiff and fast for decent control off-road.

Re: steering - New thread option - how to refurbish a steering relay?
cheers
Neil

[Lotz-A-Landies]

A good topic Neil.

I am about to do the same repair and have decided to do it with the housing still in the chassis.

So far I have removed the drivers floor and the the tunnel covers and also the skid plate under the radiator to give better access, then dropped the bottom and top steering levers from the relay. Thats where I have stopped before returning to Sydney.

Plan for the weekend is to remove the little oil seal retainers , staying clear of the spring as it discharges.

One modification I'd like to do is to replace the relay mounting flange at the bottom of the relay that mounts to the chassis. The original is made of pressed sheet and it becomes enlarged over time with the forces applied to it by the movement of the drag link and the 9.00 tyres. I've heard of a number of people who have a replacement machined out of 3/8" or 1/2" plate with recesses for either the original set bolts or replacement socket headed screws. Using the replacement flange the bottom of the relay is retained more securely and reducing one element of play.

Any ideas at your end?

Diana

[brookvale]

I hadn't even got as far as removing anything... having read the post on LRFAQ (sorry lost the link) I got scared about that spring flying out through my eyeballs... but someone locally said 'don't worry too much'... that said I have dismantled/remantled the front springs on a Mark 10 Jag using all sorts of bits so I shouldn't be that worried I suppose!

When I wangle the steering wheel there is not so much lots of slack or 'play' - there is gradual resistance building up until the wheels actually move. I can't find slack in any of the ball joints.
It is a pain to drive when you have to move the wheel a whole quarter turn to get a result :o

Maybe the relay is flexing (due to that plate you mention).
I did put oil in the steering box... (there was none before)

I really need a second pair of eyes and hands to go over the whole system and see where my motions are being lost (lol) lever by lever.

I'll have the floor out soon - I can tinker with the gearchange frame/housing at the same time.
More soon - but would like to hear from others who have dismantled/remantled their relay.

Late Edit: take photos of relay as the spring pops out...!
Neil

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...
More soon - but would like to hear from others who have dismantled/remantled their relay.

Late Edit: take photos of relay as the spring pops out...!
Neil
Neil

If you can't feel much slop in the in the steering, your relay may be O.K. Grab someone just to rock the steering wheel from side to side while you observe and feel for lateral movement at the bottom of the relay. If there is movement, analyse if the movement is between the shaft and the relay housing (in inner square of bolts) or between the relay housing and the chassis crossmember, or both. If there is movement between the housing and the chassis, the problem is with your housing retaining flange and replacement is indicated or the modification using the machined 3/8" plate.

If the movement is between the relay shaft and the housing then the relay needs reconditioning.

If reconditioning the relay don't be too concerned, the spring doesn't come at too great a force. Usually I hold the relay housing in a vice and aim the spring at a wall as I tap the shaft from the other end. However have never done it whilst in the chassis. I am planning to tap the shaft out from the top using the floor to stop the projectiles (3), in which case my eyes will be above and protected. Even though the force is not great, just dont have anyone underneath.

Make sure that you have new 2 seals and the fibrous cones and some kits come with a new spring. Check the relay shaft for wear on the tapers for the fibrous cones, the seal surfaces, as well as between the shaft and the bronze thrust washers. You may also need to replace the thrust washers if they are not a close fit with the relay. Remember they always wear in an oval.

The reassembly is quite easy if done by the process in the later Series 2a manuals using the pin to wind down the spring. The earlier manuals recommend having a special clamp which is a waste for the occasional relay you will do in your life.

Will let you know how I'm going over the weekend.

Diana

[brookvale]

Sounds so easy...
thanks for the advices re where the wear might be.

I assume kits are easily available?

FAB gets a rest this weekend - I need to carry four people up into the local forest on a run. Which gets me thinking about seating capacity on the FCs - just bolt some Japper car seats onto the rear tray or how about some safari-style stadium seating!!
but then again - some ex airline seats?? slotted into those runners - the runners would double up as lashing points also... :lol2:

[JDNSW]

When disassembling the relay, tap it out until there is enough of the split bush showing to put a hose clip on it then tap it out until the other one stats to show, and do the same.

The spring can be compressed by twisting it on a suitable bar put through the hole that should be visible half way along the shaft. Then remove the hose clamp from the end that is free and untwist the spring.

Parts should be available from any of the usual suppliers, but so are new relays - price them and you may decide it is not worth overhauling. One problem I have struck is the arm (top or bottom but usually bottom) being loose on the shaft - this will probably have worn the splines so that both the shaft and the arm need replacing!

The wheel adapters you describe (rather than spacers) are what I was talking about - they are illegal in Australia, and I do not think they would be a good idea on the 2a FC even if legal in NZ.

John

[brookvale]

thanks John - for relay - just the sort of practical advice that's needed!
Wheel adapters - yes - I've gone right off the idea - even if the were legal in NZ...

[2BFC]

I have just registered onto this site.
Interesting to see there are the usual comments about the steering.
After years of too much play even though the components were fine, and being helped to steer elsewhere by cross winds, I have made a few modifications to my fc.
First fitted a defender firewall so the steering wheel is a little higher. Fitted power steering, by using a 90 degree 1:1 gearbox, a
Range Rover P38 power steering box, rotated 180 degrees, the result is like driving a microbus, I wish I had done this years ago as it transforms the vehicle.
Got 3.5 motor with LT95 box.

[brookvale]

Welcome!
I am very interested in the power steering system... some photos would be useful as to how to approach it!
The Defender firewall and screen change the look completely - waht is your gearchange system like?

Neil

[Lotz-A-Landies]

G'Day and Welcome 2BFC, hope you enjoy your time here on the site.

The conversion of the steering sounds very interesting, although I'm not sure I understand the 1:1 90 deg gearbox. Is this an engineering power transmission box or a steering component.

Would be very interested in some pictures.

About your 2B, is it one of the ones with the Salisburys or ENV and have you had any problems with the spicer joints?

Diana

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi people!

I'm going to get three of the reinforced "Flange Plate for Relay Mounting" (Rover part Number: 217694) made for my the two S2Bs I'm keeping and another for a friend with a V8 S2A (N/C).

Is anyone interested in one also?

The original flange is made of pressed sheet and the hole which is supposed to be a close fit on the bottom of the relay becomes enlarged and oval. This allows the relay to rock side to side and fore and aft leading to play in the steering. The replacements will be made of machined plate, probably 6mm thick and be a direct replacement of the original without any other modification.

Diana

[brookvale]

Yes please Diana.
It'll give me good reason then to dismantle and remantle the whole setup!
Neil

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Yes please Diana.
It'll give me good reason then to dismantle and remantle the whole setup!
Neil
Neil

The good thing about this re-fit is that you only have to remove the lower steering arm off the relay, then the 4 bolts that mount the flange to the chassis.

We haven't decided whether to have longer bolts or a recess into the new flange for the original bolts, we may even use socket headed allen screws as replacements. Discussions with the machinist are (hopefully) happening as we speak.

Will let you know.

Diana

P.S. Is remantling a similar concept to regruntling! ;):D

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I have just registered onto this site....

...First fitted a defender firewall so the steering wheel is a little higher. Fitted power steering, by using a 90 degree 1:1 gearbox, a
Range Rover P38 power steering box, rotated 180 degrees, the result is like driving a microbus, I wish I had done this years ago as it transforms the vehicle.
Got 3.5 motor with LT95 box.
G'Day again 2BFC

Just had a better look at the pic of your vehicle - Looks great, you'll have to show us more. I like the idea of the same side profile as the cab, although for my project vehicle I am planning to have a bed across the rear so need to increase the width to probably 6'4" overall to allow a 6'2" bed inside.

Now back to the steering, today I had a look at a box from a P38A. Am I correct in thinking that it usually fits on the outside of the chassis and you have fitted it on the inside of the chassis.

Can I ask: Is it in front or behind the cross member where the relay was originally fitted?
Did you have to cut away any of the upper chassis?
Does the shaft from the 90 degree bevel drive to the P38A box have to cross between the two chassis rails?
Does the steering column still go through the floor in the footwell (below the pedals) in the same place?
Have you still used the original lower arm from the P38A box?
This all sounds very promising to say the least! :) :) And thank you for the idea! :TakeABow:

Diana

[brookvale]

Ferreting around under FAB's floor this afternoon sorting out new OD levers/rods.
Found some re-bar which will fit!

Anyways - with **** in air and head through driver's side floor I got a good look at the relay as the steering rods operate.
Yep! the relay rocks in its mount as I turn the wheel.
From box to relay there is no slop or play - the slightest turn of the wheel shows up without play through the steering box itself - so that's OK.

The relay unit first rocks (backwards or forwards) then twists slightly before any movement shows on the drag link/drop arm. That's where my motion is being lost.

Looking forward to hearing news about the MkII Oz-flange!
When (!) it is ready I'll whip out the relay for it's 43 year overhaul...

[JDNSW]

............
The relay unit first rocks (backwards or forwards) then twists slightly before any movement shows on the drag link/drop arm. That's where my motion is being lost.

Looking forward to hearing news about the MkII Oz-flange!
When (!) it is ready I'll whip out the relay for it's 43 year overhaul...

At least since it moves it should be possible to get it out - the other thing that goes wrong with steering relays is they tend to become permanent parts of the chassis - I have a farm trailer that started life as a Landrover; and it still has the relay fitted - I gave up trying to get it out after a day.

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

At least since it moves it should be possible to get it out - ...

... John
Your correct there, on my 1951 the relay was so incorporated with crud and rust that the cylinder the relay is housed in pushed out with the relay. :( :(

From a steering perspective I would rather have to service the relay insitu than have the relay moving about all over the place.

You would know the usual trick of getting the relay out. With everything still in the car you jack up the relay and let gravity do the work, many times with a few well placed blows with a suitable device. A bit hard to do with your trailer.

Diana

[JDNSW]

.......
You would know the usual trick of getting the relay out. With everything still in the car you jack up the relay and let gravity do the work, many times with a few well placed blows with a suitable device. A bit hard to do with your trailer.

Diana

Diana

Tried all that while the engine was still in it to give it some weight.

John