Series III V8 Special Edition????

[Tank]

My son in Kalgoorlie has come across a 1979 Series III.
V8 Special Edition, it is a 109 2 door Series III chassis with leaf springs with full time 4WD (County) and carbied 3.5 V8.
The bloke that owns it says that that is how it came from Land Rover when new, it has V8 Special Edition badges on it.
Anyone heard of this model, any info would be helpful, Regards Frank.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

My son in Kalgoorlie has come across a 1979 Series III.
V8 Special Edition, it is a 109 2 door Series III chassis with leaf springs with full time 4WD (County) and carbied 3.5 V8.
The bloke that owns it says that that is how it came from Land Rover when new, it has V8 Special Edition badges on it.
Anyone heard of this model, any info would be helpful, Regards Frank.
Frank

Yes that is a Land Rover model, the other term for them is Series III Stage 1 and were produced up to the beginning of the County models. In Australia the Stage 1 was also available with the Isuzu 4BD1 diesel.

They are constant 4WD with the LT95 Early Range Rover transmission the same as used in the Army Perentie 6 X 6 Land Rovers. They retained the narrow track of the Series II and III Land Rovers

They are a bit of an orphan in a few little ways, with CV joints unique to the model, but the engine and other transmission parts are early Range Rover with a Salisbury 3.54 rear diff.

As the leaf sprung models go they are quite a good vehicle with a lot more power in a more reliable package than the Rover 6 cylinder and can be upgraded easily with later 3.9 or 4.6 litre Rover V8s. Their down side is fuel economy on a relatively undersized V8 if hauling weight around but LPG makes that a viable option

Hope this helps.

Dana

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Frank

I omitted to mention that the regular Series III with the 2 1/4 engine (then called 2.3 litre in a badge similar to the special edition badge) continued to be available while the Stage 1 was in production.

The Stage 1 5 door station wagons also had tinted glass while the regular wagons continued with clear glass.

Diana

[Tank]

Diana, thanks once again for you wealth of helpful info on all things Land Rover, I did ask my son if it was a Stage 1, as a newby he couldn't say and the bloke that owns it insisted it was a Special Edition, anyway a further question or two, this model doesn't have the Viscous coupling centre diff, does it? and are the CV joints like the SIII (uni type) or proper CV joints (ball type), Thanks, Regards Frank.

[isuzurover]

Diana, thanks once again for you wealth of helpful info on all things Land Rover, I did ask my son if it was a Stage 1, as a newby he couldn't say and the bloke that owns it insisted it was a Special Edition, anyway a further question or two, this model doesn't have the Viscous coupling centre diff, does it? and are the CV joints like the SIII (uni type) or proper CV joints (ball type), Thanks, Regards Frank.

Stage 1s have an LT95 (4-speed) box with integral t-case. The diff lock is vacuum actuated (same principle as MD diff locks). It doesn't have the later borg warner viscous t-case.

The front axles look like series LR axles, but they have (proper) CV joints almost identical to the county type. Inner axles are 23-10 spline. Diff centre is the same as a rangie (3.54). The whole axle casing is rotated forwards so the diff points towards the t-case.

Rear axle is the same as a SIII 109", except for the 3.54 ratio.

I have a Stage 1 front axle in my IIA.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Diana, thanks once again for you wealth of helpful info on all things Land Rover, ...

...Thanks, Regards Frank.
Frank you are very gracious! :redface: I try!!! :angel:

IsuzuRover has explained most of your questions, the Stage 1 terminology seems to be a bit unique to Aussie, other places merely call them Series III V8s. This may be because we're the only ones who have the 4BD1 version. My guess about the special edition name is because they were a hybridised SIII/Range Rover and in production terms there were relatively few made given that production of the regular SIII continued in parallel.

There is a recent thread on the Stage I CVs http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/58398-aeu1828-cv-they-used-range-rovers.html but once again it is IsuzuRover :TakeABow: who is the wealth of knowledge.

I am using Stage 1 swivels and CVs on ENV axle casings/diffs in my Hybrid V8 SIIB.

Cheers
Diana

[isuzurover]

I am using Stage 1 swivels and CVs on ENV axle casings/diffs in my Hybrid V8 SIIB

That's interesting Diana - any pics???

Why didn't you use salisburies??? Stronger and more common.

[Tank]

Stage 1s have an LT95 (4-speed) box with integral t-case. The diff lock is vacuum actuated (same principle as MD diff locks). It doesn't have the later borg warner viscous t-case.

The front axles look like series LR axles, but they have (proper) CV joints almost identical to the county type. Inner axles are 23-10 spline. Diff centre is the same as a rangie (3.54). The whole axle casing is rotated forwards so the diff points towards the t-case.

Rear axle is the same as a SIII 109", except for the 3.54 ratio.

I have a Stage 1 front axle in my IIA.
Thanks for that info, my son has a 79 SIII 2.25D 109, he is looking for a petrol (V8) version that he can convert to LPG, he lives and works in Kambalda just south of Kalgoorlie and the cost of diesel is making an LPG V8 look more of a proposition, if you come across anything reasonably priced over your way please let us know, Regards Frank.

[D3Jon]

<snip> IsuzuRover has explained most of your questions, the Stage 1 terminology seems to be a bit unique to Aussie, other places merely call them Series III V8s. <snip>

Cheers
Diana

Nah... they're called Stage 1's the world over. This is why...

Land Rover was flagging and had had a huge cash injection from the British Government to keep it going. This money was used to fund the development of the coil sprung 90 / 110.

During the development period of the 110, the SIII "Stage One" was released as an interim measure to fend off flagging sales as a result of Toyota pinching LR sales with the bigger engined Land Cruiser.

Technically the 110 was "Stage 2" of Land Rovers redevelopment, but it was never called that.

Jon

PS I'd like a nice Stage One, I think they're an important car in Land Rovers history.

[isuzurover]

Thanks for that info, my son has a 79 SIII 2.25D 109, he is looking for a petrol (V8) version that he can convert to LPG, he lives and works in Kambalda just south of Kalgoorlie and the cost of diesel is making an LPG V8 look more of a proposition, if you come across anything reasonably priced over your way please let us know, Regards Frank.

Will do Mate - I think Andy bought one a while back???

But he won't save much if anything. The 2.25D should be doing about 10L/100 if he isn't driving too fast. A stage 1 on LPG could easily do 25l/100. Don't know about Kal, but going by the cheapest fuelwatch prices east of the hills (1.75 and 70) - both would cost the same to run.


Jon - you should get a 4BD1 powered stage 1. Even more unique, and built for much the same reason. When the Stage 1 (V8) arrived here in 1980/81, the petrol engine buyers finally had a decent alternative to the 4L 6cyl patrols and Landcruisers. Sales of 4cyl landies dropped to nothing. LR Aust (Leyland or JRA back then - who had a fair bit of autonomy) convinced LR UK that they needed a competitor for the diesel 6's too. They shipped out CKD Stage 1s minus the engine and bellhousing, and the rest is history...

Not many people realise it, but the Stage 1 with 4BD1 (released 1982) was the FIRST direct injection diesel in a 4x4 wagon (or any vehicle that size) in the world!!!

[Lotz-A-Landies]

That's interesting Diana - any pics???

Why didn't you use salisburies??? Stronger and more common.

Because the SIIB always had ENV except for the very last few in 1972 and the later CKD ones built in South Africa.

Are the Salisbury actually stronger than the ENV or merely lighter?

Regarding the pics of the front end, there's not much to see. It all looks just like the originals from the outside, although if you had X-Ray vision you would see the Stage I CVs and the Maxi-Drive hybrid halfshafts.

The rest of the project is still underway so pics will come as it progresses.

Diana

[Tank]

Will do Mate - I think Andy bought one a while back???

But he won't save much if anything. The 2.25D should be doing about 10L/100 if he isn't driving too fast. A stage 1 on LPG could easily do 25l/100. Don't know about Kal, but going by the cheapest fuelwatch prices east of the hills (1.75 and 70) - both would cost the same to run.


Jon - you should get a 4BD1 powered stage 1. Even more unique, and built for much the same reason. When the Stage 1 (V8) arrived here in 1980/81, the petrol engine buyers finally had a decent alternative to the 4L 6cyl patrols and Landcruisers. Sales of 4cyl landies dropped to nothing. LR Aust (Leyland or JRA back then - who had a fair bit of autonomy) convinced LR UK that they needed a competitor for the diesel 6's too. They shipped out CKD Stage 1s minus the engine and bellhousing, and the rest is history...

Not many people realise it, but the Stage 1 with 4BD1 (released 1982) was the FIRST direct injection diesel in a 4x4 wagon (or any vehicle that size) in the world!!!
Myles (my son) is paying $1.94/L for diesel and LPG is $0.88/L, so your right it would work out to be the same (or close) cost/klm, but it would certainly be much more comfortable with the V8 and I think diesel will be much more expensive, esp. in WA, over the next few months because of the shutdown of the gas plant up North, Regards Frank.

[isuzurover]

Because the SIIB always had ENV except for the very last few in 1972 and the later CKD ones built in South Africa.

Are the Salisbury actually stronger than the ENV or merely lighter?

Regarding the pics of the front end, there's not much to see. It all looks just like the originals from the outside, although if you had X-Ray vision you would see the Stage I CVs and the Maxi-Drive hybrid halfshafts.

The rest of the project is still underway so pics will come as it progresses.

Diana

AFAIK the ENV was a smaller version (or the version at the time) of the Eaton truck diff. You are probably right, the ENV is quite strong, it was just let down by the crappy front halfshafts LR fitted - but if you have MD ones now...

My main reasoning was the easier availability of parts (e.g. ratios from 3.54 to 7.17) and lockers for the salisbury.

But I see your point about originality... (
what engine are you putting in??? ;):D)

[UncleHo]

G'day Tank :)

G'day Frank, the "Stage One" (marketed here as the "Special Edition") is the last of the Series 3's and the first 109s to have the 3.5 litre V8 fitted, with constant 4 wheel drive, by using the LT95 4 speed G/box and lower geared Transfer box, and the 3.54 ratio diffs, all directly from the then current Range Rover, the engine was detuned by fitting "restrictors" in the Carby throats, (most people removed these as soon as warranty expired) the gearbox has a vacuum centre diff lock same as the 110/Rangie, the "Stage 2" from 1983-on, was what is known as the "110 county" on coil springs. Australia was the only country in the world to fit the Izusu 4BD1 diesel, as a test bed for the proposed Army contract for "Project Perentie" the Australian coil sprung diesel military Landrover, but needed ADR conpliance and on-road feedback before the Army would commit,so the Stage 1 with 4BD1 diesel was released to the Govt depts and the public, it was and is still the best Series Landrover ever built and those that now come on to the market are often snapped up by English customers and shipped back to UK, the 4BD1 diesel is from the Izusu 4-8 ton truck range, with some modifications to the front engine/water pump cases, it has a working life in the 4-500,000 mile range, that is why the Army still uses them and the Perentie is now regularly totally rebuilt/remanufactured by the Army :)


If I could afford one I would have one and would have had one years ago:D, vibrate and sound like a tractor, but ya can't kill them:)

P.S. the 3.5 V8 will go straight on to gas without valve modification;)

cheers

[Lotz-A-Landies]

AFAIK the ENV was a smaller version (or the version at the time) of the Eaton truck diff. You are probably right, the ENV is quite strong, it was just let down by the crappy front halfshafts LR fitted - but if you have MD ones now...

My main reasoning was the easier availability of parts (e.g. ratios from 3.54 to 7.17) and lockers for the salisbury.

But I see your point about originality... (
what engine are you putting in??? ;):D)
IsuzuR

This should be in a different thread, has been discussed elsewhere and a number of good powertrain recommendations including a GM 3 cyl 2stroke diesel, or Isuzu 4bd1-T with Isuzu 5sp O/D box/LT230 and Rover 4.6 V8 R380/LT230. The 4.6/R380 currently has the front running at the moment, but only because of the availability of a unit at a good price from a friend. With the Isuzu coming close. In fact it may well be that I Run the 4.6 for a while with plans to put it in my 2nd RRc while I built up the Isuzu combination.

The diffs and originality - that is not so much of the issue - I already have 7 ENV diffs and 7 SIIB ENV housings with spring mountings for the SIIB and have No Salisbury Diffs. The track of the SIIB is different to any of the other models although the difference may only be in the rims used on the County/Defender and very few SIIBs came to Australia (or anywhere except South Africa) with the Salisbury assemblies so there are even fewer front Salisbury units. But I take your point on diff lockers although when you consider the issue of the Standard 36.5" tyres there is only 2 choices of ratio 4.7 and 4.11.

I think the ENV was an WWII period design going out of production because Nuffield was no longer using the diff in Morris Commercials etc. and that was the reason Land Rover went to the Salisbury.

Diana

[Col.Coleman]

Nah... they're called Stage 1's the world over. This is why...

Land Rover was flagging and had had a huge cash injection from the British Government to keep it going. This money was used to fund the development of the coil sprung 90 / 110.

During the development period of the 110, the SIII "Stage One" was released as an interim measure to fend off flagging sales as a result of Toyota pinching LR sales with the bigger engined Land Cruiser.

Technically the 110 was "Stage 2" of Land Rovers redevelopment, but it was never called that.

Jon

PS I'd like a nice Stage One, I think they're an important car in Land Rovers history.



If I could afford one I would ahve one and would have had one years ago:D, vibrate and sound like a tractor, but ya can't kill them:)

P.S. the 3.5 V8 will go straight on to gas without valve modification;)

cheers

I couldn't agree more. I have one. 82 Station wagon, tropical roof, 10 seater 4bd1. Even came with the worklight for plugging onto the dash.

Passed on a 2 door v8 for $2500 7 years ago because it had gearbox issues, the left door was held on by rope and I wanted more seats.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/06/325.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/08/859.jpg

CC

[isuzurover]

Sorry for the hijack...



The diffs and originality - that is not so much of the issue - I already have 7 ENV diffs and 7 SIIB ENV housings with spring mountings for the SIIB and have No Salisbury Diffs. The track of the SIIB is different to any of the other models although the difference may only be in the rims used on the County/Defender and very few SIIBs came to Australia (or anywhere except South Africa) with the Salisbury assemblies so there are even fewer front Salisbury units. But I take your point on diff lockers although when you consider the issue of the Standard 36.5" tyres there is only 2 choices of ratio 4.7 and 4.11.

I think the ENV was an WWII period design going out of production because Nuffield was no longer using the diff in Morris Commercials etc. and that was the reason Land Rover went to the Salisbury.

Diana

Sorry Diana - I was just being cheeky - thought your main reason to keep the env was originality - so was having a go about the engine swap.

Not sure what you mean about only 2 ratio choices??? The following are available for a salisbury/dana60:
3.54
3.73
4.10
4.30
4.56
4.70
4.88
5.13
6.17
7.17

The ENV looks almost the same as the Eaton truck diff. Maybe Eaton bought the design, or it was produced under licence?

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Sorry for the hijack...
Not sure what you mean about only 2 ratio choices??? The following are available for a salisbury/dana60:
3.54, 3.73, 4.10, 4.30, 4.56, 4.70, 4.88, 5.13, 6.17, 7.17

The ENV looks almost the same as the Eaton truck diff. Maybe Eaton bought the design, or it was produced under licence?
I_R
Salisbury Dana 60 :confused: Are they interchangeable?

The ENV looks the same ... Tell me more? Would there be any locking centres to suit ?????

You realise the E in ENV is Eaton, still only guessing at what the rest equates to. Possibly Nuffield possibly something completely different.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/264.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/06/320.jpg

BTW: The project vehicle came with an Eaton 2 speed and 20" Austin truck duals wheels on the rear. Any wonder there was a broken halfshaft up front!

[isuzurover]

All sals and a D60 are almost identical, and you can use D60 gears in a sals just by changing a few bearings.

Keith (Revor) from rovertracks has fitted D60 gears and lockers to salisburies and vice versa. He gave me a list of bearing PNs needed.

I have some D60 side gears which I will be using on a project axle. 1.31" 30-spline and 1.5" 35 spline (BIGGER than the axles used in an FC101).

I remember reading that someone thought ENV meant Eaton Number 5 (V)???

AFAIK there aren't any lockers for an Eaton either, but could be wrong. Handbuilt on pirate4x4.com built an Eaton for the front of his landie, so knows a bit about them.

[Aaron IIA]

I have always liked the ENV over the Salisbury when used in a modified SWB. The ENV has a much shorter snout than the Salisbury, which will give you a better propellor shaft angle.
The ENV is spiral beval, while the Salisbury is hypoid. Spiral beval differentials are stronger and more efficient than hypoid differentials. The only reason that the Salisbury is stronger than the Rover, is because the Salisbury is much larger and heavier. As far as strength for weight, spiral beval is better. The benefit of having a hypoid differential, is to get the propellor shaft down lower, reducing the transmission hump found in cars.
Aaron.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

..I remember reading that someone thought ENV meant Eaton Number 5 (V)???

AFAIK there aren't any lockers for an Eaton either, but could be wrong. Handbuilt on pirate4x4.com built an Eaton for the front of his landie, so knows a bit about them.
Eaton No. 5 sounds logical, but weren't Eaton Number 5s a two speed diff? It was in the casting on the back of the housing.

Just out of historical interest, the first air locker that Mal Story ever made was on an ENV for his "Sidewinder" 4 wheel steering project.

The diffs were eventually removed in favour of Salisburys only because of the marketing potential. The ENV's were sold off to a forward control and as luck would have it, 1 halfshaft Mal made for a spare set of Maxi axles for my project was sold to the same vehicle currently with Mals ENV.

I was considering investigating if we could have a Detroit Locker gear-set fitted inside an ENV hemisphere. (I have a couple to play with.)

Diana

[D3Jon]

I couldn't agree more. I have one. 82 Station wagon, tropical roof, 10 seater 4bd1. Even came with the worklight for plugging onto the dash.

Passed on a 2 door v8 for $2500 7 years ago because it had gearbox issues, the left door was held on by rope and I wanted more seats.

CC

Looks nice!

Jon

[Tank]

Eaton No. 5 sounds logical, but weren't Eaton Number 5s a two speed diff? It was in the casting on the back of the housing.

Just out of historical interest, the first air locker that Mal Story ever made was on an ENV for his "Sidewinder" 4 wheel steering project.

The diffs were eventually removed in favour of Salisburys only because of the marketing potential. The ENV's were sold off to a forward control and as luck would have it, 1 halfshaft Mal made for a spare set of Maxi axles for my project was sold to the same vehicle currently with Mals ENV.

I was considering investigating if we could have a Detroit Locker gear-set fitted inside an ENV hemisphere. (I have a couple to play with.)

Diana
Eaton #4 and #5 rear diffs were built for 8tonne trucks, also used in bogie drive setups, they were usually 2 speed and weigh over half a tonne (complete), the #4 was the smaller of the 2 and the #5 usually has air operated S-cam brakes and Spider 5 or 6 spoke hubs, a lot of jap trucks Fuso, Isuzu tippers were converted to #5 Eatons because they were much stronger than the jap axles, Regards Frank.