4 car thieves died

[LandyAndy]

5 joyriders crashed their stolen commodore last night near Mandurah.
4 died aged between 10 and 15,they were brothers/cousins.All were reported as extremely talented young footballers,one related to Farmer and another Picket in the AFL.
At least they didnt take out any innocent 3rd party in the accident.The care was ripped in 2,possibly3 pieces by the look of the pics
Andrew

[DirtyDawg]

Where were the parents.???? I'm sort of immune now....fatal accidents only involving the theif must be some sort of crime stopper.

[scarry]

That is really sad Andy :(

OK, they were doing the wrong thing but loss of young life like that is always a tragedy :( We don't have enough young uns in this county as it is without losing them like that :(

i know this is a really sad thing but it continues to happen....look at their ages....a shocking waste

i know their is no quick fix , but i believe the problem has its roots at home.
there are to many young uns out of control.theydo want they want no disciplin etc.

just my 2 cents worth....i also have teenage sons

ummm the cars today are way to powerful and this also doesnt help...a six cyl dunny dore today has more power than a 10 yr old v8:(

cheers

[WhiteD3]

I'm torn between "Hang the parents", "Good riddance to idiots" and "how stupid was I at 15".

No easy answer:(.

But IMHO;
Harsher penalties for joy riders
Harsher penalties for juvenile offender's parents
More funding to community entertainment projects
Young offender work/punishment schemes (ie shipping the little buggers off to an outback station, etc.

[Rangier Rover]

:(:( Some of us where lucky to survive:eek:. Kids are kids. SO sad when this happens:( I feel the family and friends:(:(

[drivesafe]

I see no problem with the end result of their elected pastime.

My only sympathy is for the poor sole who’s car they stole and although the punishment they paid was way to dear, it was self inflicted.

We currently have a band of 12 and 13 year olds terrorising our local valley, riding their motor bikes through people’s gardens for fun, stoning houses and cars, committing burglaries and getting caught at it and there is not a thing the police can do, because of the age.

I’m with WhiteD3, hang their bloody parents.

In one case just this passed week, both the mother and 12 year old were ordered down to the local cop shop and had the riot act read out to them on all three crimes mentioned above and as soon as the little basted got home, just on dark, he got out of his mothers car, got on his motor bike and went off to his mates place, with his mother watching on.

So much for parental guidance.

[Rangier Rover]

I see no problem with the end result of their elected pastime.

My only sympathy is for the poor sole who’s car they stole and although the punishment they paid was way to dear, it was self inflicted.

We currently have a band of 12 and 13 year olds terrorising our local valley, riding their motor bikes through people’s gardens for fun, stoning houses and cars, committing burglaries and getting caught at it and there is not a thing the police can do, because of the age.

I’m with WhiteD3, hang their bloody parents.

In one case just this passed week, both the mother and 12 year old were ordered down to the local cop shop and had the riot act read out to them on all three crimes mentioned above and as soon as the little basted got home, just on dark, he got out of his mothers car, got on his motor bike and went off to his mates place, with his mother watching on.

So much for parental guidance. Thats a bit hard:o. If that the case there will be a lot of hanging done:eek:;) So true it seems to reflect on parenting at times. But what if your child was in that car:eek: It can happen these days. Mate of a mate etc. I would not wish it on any one.:(

[bblaze]

How can we completely blame the parents when they have had the right to disipline their children taken away by the goverments over the last 20 years.
feel for all involved, very sad indeed.
blaze

[100I]

I see no problem with the end result of their elected pastime.

My only sympathy is for the poor sole who’s car they stole and although the punishment they paid was way to dear, it was self inflicted.

.

You're kidding aren't you? They were kids.
Pull your ****ing head in.

[drivesafe]

They were kids.

No they were not, they were nothing more than criminals.

[Rangier Rover]

How can we completely blame the parents when they have had the right to disipline their children taken away by the goverments over the last 20 years.
feel for all involved, very sad indeed.
blaze
Education Dept and Police also. In the ealier days a Kick in the pants was in order. (A flogging) now gone :confused:. Harder to make an attitude adjustment these days. WE are so much worse off. Thats the way it is. There is no way back. SO we have to put up with new age teens:eek:
I try to use physhology on my kids. Battle of wits;)

[rar110]

The death penalty is a bit much for stealing a car. My sympathy goes to their families.

Scientific study has shown a high percentage of people in teens and early 20's don't think of consequences before acting.

Ive seen plenty continue this path and go to goal, and others grow up and get off that path and be normal people. Who knows which path these teenages would have taken. You don't until they've grown up.

People are rightly sick of d**k head behaviour. Drivesafe has the pleasure of living on the Gold Coast so I have an idea where he's coming from. The Surfers Paradise Mall (& F/Valley) is a zoo just about any night of the week. However, responsible parents have a hard job having a positive influence on their kids when there is an overwhelming weight of negative influence. Crap advertising and crap tv that normalises crap behaviour is just one of those negative influences IMHO. rant over.

[V8Ian]

No they were not, they were nothing more than criminals.

Hear hear. My kids would never have stolen a car, & I am very proud of the way they are bringing up their kids. Were the thieves non reflective?

[Disco Steve]

No they were not, they were nothing more than criminals.

I have to agree with you drivesafe. this was completly self inflicted.

[Sprint]

i'm with drivesafe, they mightve been kids, but they stole a car, they knew what they were doing, if anyone says they didnt, then the parents need to suffer the same fate for not teaching thier kids to respect other peoples property

[CapeLandy]

He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.

Say no more - best advise from best source of guidance in life

[RonMcGr]

5 joyriders crashed their stolen commodore last night near Mandurah.
4 died aged between 10 and 15,they were brothers/cousins.All were reported as extremely talented young footballers,one related to Farmer and another Picket in the AFL.
At least they didnt take out any innocent 3rd party in the accident.The care was ripped in 2,possibly3 pieces by the look of the pics
Andrew

You missed the part about them being thieves!
Go to the WA newspaper on the article and read about the poor 18 year old who had saved hard to buy that car.

I don't care if those thieves were brilliant at School either.
Once a thief always a thief!

I have never stolen another persons car and neither have my children.

The headline should have read, "Gene pool cleansed of four young thieves".

[JDNSW]

I am afraid that whether you like it or not, some stupid actions carry the death penalty, and this is an example. The laws of physics apply to everyone regardless of whether they agree with them or not - if you hit a post hard enough in a car, the chances of survival are slim, especially if not wearing a seat belt.

In my view, the responsibility is shared by large sections of the community, including parents, those providing education and policing, and particularly the entertainment industry, who have for years portrayed car theft and irresponsible driving as exciting and likely to gain peer approval, in film, television and games; and, of course, that peer group is also responsible.

But the primary responsibility must lie with the boys themselves; and it is worth noting that they were all above the age of criminal responsibility - in other words, the community has, over the centuries, come to the conclusion that by that age (10) they are old enough to know right from wrong, and can be held legally responsible for their actions.

John

[vnx205]

I presume that those of you who are automatically blaming the parents have never seen a mother weeping as she admits that she can't stop her primary school age son from doing as he pleases.

The reason she can't control him is that every time she tells him to stop, he hits her.

I have seen that myself and have heard from reliable sources of other instances of similar cases of parents who live in fear of their children.

Not all of those children use physical violence to intimidate their parents. Others use psychological techniques that are just as effective.

While it might be possible to argue that they brought it on themselves by not bringing up their children correctly when they were younger, punishing those parents now won't achieve anything.

On the subject of bringing up children, it is a concern if some people really believe that it consists exclusively of belting the kids every time they step out of line.

The new series of ads aimed at telling parents that their drinking habits are an important factor influencing the kids' attitude towards binge drinking serves as a reminder that our example is an important part of raising children.

Appropriate discipline has a part to play, but there is more to bringing up children than that.

Parent do have a responsibility to do what they can to ensure that the children they produce make a positive contribution to society, but that does not mean that they should be punished every time they fail.

For many of them the disappointment of seeing their children turn out badly is a greater punishment than many of us could imagine.

Some of the parents who fail have brought it on themselves. Some have simply been overwhelmed by forces they were not equipped to cope with.

[crump]

If I'd ever hit my mother for telling me what to do my big brother or my father would have put me in hospital, end of story.Its all about respect, nothing more.

[Hucksta]

Now lets see,

Before i start let me get through the following.

Yes, it's sad that 4 young men lost their lives.
Yes, it's sad that the families have lost young lives.
Yes, the parents have to take responsibility.

Now, what do you think would happen if these thieves had smashed into another car and not a tree or whatever it was. What if that other car contained Mr & Mrs BLOGGS and their kids and they took them out. How much sympathy do you think would be going around then. Don't for one minute try and say to me that it didn't happen this time so I can't speculate. This sort of thing happens all to often, yet when they are apprehended and taken to court they get off with barely a slap on the wrist, yet when they kill themselves or someone else we are meant to feel pity for them, well I struggle with that.

For everyones actions there is a result and sometimes that result is not nice but that's the way it is. nobody told them to steal a car, nobody told them to speed. I can visualize it, steal car, speed, drive like lunatic, friends egging each other on ....... BANG ...... gone.

On top of all that, I'm just glad that the police where not chasing these criminals because if they where you can bet your bottom dollar that they would be copping blame from everyone.

Just look for someone else to blame, that's what we do these days, that's how we avoid taking responsibility for our own actions.

I guess in the end, I will acknowledge that it is a sad but i struggle to feel much sympathy for them. If you really want someone to blame start with the driver and work back from there ........ Glad it wasn't my kids, but then again I reckon that my kids would make better decisions than this ...

Hucksta

[strange_rover1]

I absolutely agree with the above comments in reguards to these little **** heads dealing out their own punishment and as harsh as it may have been, I am sorry, they made the decision to steal the car. I agree you cant always blame the parents but I am absolutely sure that when I was a kid my father made sure I was started off in the right direction and I took care of the rest myself. If no discipline or manners are installed at a very young age the kids have no chance for the rest of their life. I also believe the justice/government has a large part to blame as the laws do not punish these kids when they commit crimes against society. To answer Ians question, I believe atleast 2 of the kids were aboriginal, these are the kids that probably 95% are brought up with no manners and no respect for society but the one thing I am sure they are taught is that the system wont touch them until they are atleast 18 years of age. This is the attitude that needs changing and we need to bring back stronger punishments.
I do feel sorry for their families in their loss but I dont feel for these kids at all.
Shano

[p38arover]

May I ask the ethnic background of the 4 youths? The news article says they were related.

I know that WA has a problem with a certain section of the community. I wonder if the community referred to in:


Police say the deaths will have a huge effect on the community and Det Insp Scanlon says they will be working with the community to lessen the impact. is of a particular ethnic group?

What is a 10 yo doing out at that time of night?

[Hucksta]

May I ask the ethinc background of the 4 youths? (I haven't seen the news article.)

I know that WA has a problem with a certain section of the community.


Ron,

based on the fact that they are relatives of AFL footballers FARMER and PICKETT it would be safe to say that they are Aboriginal. Not sure if that is the section of the community that you refer too, but from my own personal experience i would say that it is ........

Hucksta

[303gunner]

....and Det Insp Scanlon says they will be working with the community to lessen the impact.
No, the Police should be out at the scene and MAXIMISING THE IMPACT.

[Ken]

The end result for the youths in question was Death
The mistakes they commited caused them the ultimate penalty
The only real issues that need to be addressed here are as such
Education through parental guidance
If the parents in question considered for even one second their children were about to die that day
Im sure they would of been in a position of responsibility to educate them so as this would not happen
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but not in this case
As this is a reoccuring situation that does not seem to be getting any better
I say what is the answer as the education that has been passed on through Western European and Indigenous folk alike doesnt seem to work
Yes in some respects a good hiding works in others a stern word is all that is needed
If the young people in question had the initiative to do something about saving their own lives they wouldnt have stolen a car and died no more than ten minutes later
In the instant they died they learnt a lesson ten seconds to late
Their parents have lost their sons and this in itself is the harshest lesson they can learn
If this is what it takes for the next generation to learn I say the lesson is to harsh and no one deserves to learn this way
Yes what they did was wrong in stealing someone elses property and thank god no one else was hurt but for those of you that think this is a justified outcome I say not !!!!!

[cartm58]

It's not new, always have had unruly, undisciplined hooligans in society, that's why someone invented the word hooligan.

What is different is the enlightened social laws since the late 1960s and the trend towards community sentencing instead of placing the juenville in a detention centre.

As soon as l heard the news last night my first thought was Aboriginal youths, again the cultural myth makers talk about their family and environmental cultural values as being supposedly superior value, all l have ever seen is dysfunctional community causing problems for themselves and us and total sponge wasting billions in tax payers dollars.

My personal view is these sort of undisciplined unruly children should be removed to a remote open prison and taught values, work values, respect for property and others and not allowed back to the normal world till they have shown demonstrated change in attitude.

As for criminals lets drop the nonsense about rehabilitation and just concentrate on punishment and give extended jail time and drop the concept of parole and truth in sentencing and have mandatory sentencing for instance drink driving causing death is cheap murder at 3 years l would make it 15 years minimum.

[CraigE]

Tragic, but is their own fault. They chose to steal the car and drive it in that manner. The buck stops with them and their irresponsible families who think it is a joke and they are being persecuted.
It is not the fault of Police, Education Dept etc, but theirs and theirs alone.
This sectionof the comunity have so many opportunities just handed to them for their alleged plight that most other kids and sections of the community have to work damn hard to get. It is all just a free ride to them and they do not respect anyone or anything.
Sorry but it is about time these kids were held accountable for their actions. The bill for the cleanup and insurances should be sent to the irresponsible parents. Its amazing the majority of us can bring our kids up not to do this or are truely concerned when they do get into trouble.
I am just glad they did not take out someone else as is usually the case.

[CraigE]

I presume that those of you who are automatically blaming the parents have never seen a mother weeping as she admits that she can't stop her primary school age son from doing as he pleases.

The reason she can't control him is that every time she tells him to stop, he hits her.

I have seen that myself and have heard from reliable sources of other instances of similar cases of parents who live in fear of their children.

Not all of those children use physical violence to intimidate their parents. Others use psychological techniques that are just as effective.

While it might be possible to argue that they brought it on themselves by not bringing up their children correctly when they were younger, punishing those parents now won't achieve anything.

On the subject of bringing up children, it is a concern if some people really believe that it consists exclusively of belting the kids every time they step out of line.

The new series of ads aimed at telling parents that their drinking habits are an important factor influencing the kids' attitude towards binge drinking serves as a reminder that our example is an important part of raising children.

Appropriate discipline has a part to play, but there is more to bringing up children than that.

Parent do have a responsibility to do what they can to ensure that the children they produce make a positive contribution to society, but that does not mean that they should be punished every time they fail.

For many of them the disappointment of seeing their children turn out badly is a greater punishment than many of us could imagine.

Some of the parents who fail have brought it on themselves. Some have simply been overwhelmed by forces they were not equipped to cope with.
I do not think anyone is doubting the grief, but they are also pretty good at putting it on for the cameras and when the media is gone giving the police a serve for picking on their kids cause they are black. Yes there are instances where parents have tried everything and failed and I applaud these parents for trying black and white.
Growing up in the eastern goldfields of WA I have first hand knowledge of this and seen it to many times to recount. But there are plenty that are good and I count a lot as friends. Being black is not an excuse or reason.
The biggest problem is a large percentage of this race have no respect for others or their property. This is not isolated to aboriginal people only either but they are the biggest offenders for such a small populous.
I really hope a solution can be found, but until people accept responsability for their actions we are on a never ending roundabout.
:(:(:(:(

[ATH]

I blame the parents and justice system devised by our many pollies, and the do gooders who insist we must keep compensating for so called past injustices.
I was coming back from holiday via the NW Coastal Hwy a couple of weeks ago and the cops sent a message on Ch 40 that there was a high speed chase heading for Port Hedland and within a couple of minutes they went passed us at about 140kph with smoke pouring out of an elderly Falcon wagon.
The cops eventually got past and hit the brakes causing the Falcon to rearend them and the male thieves took off into the bush leaving a woman behind.
They were all caught but a copper I met later (not involved in the chase) said there was no point in catching them because they'd go to court, all get fined, then in the corridor outside the courtroom the ALS would write a cheque for the fine amount and they'd pay it to the court!!!
All done, fine paid, go out and do it again.
Their fines are paid so there's no penalty,legal bills all paid for, medical all paid for, education all paid for, housing all paid for, everything free except beer and smokes and we pay for that as well really.
And the good ones, and there are plenty, get very little credit as they're all tarred with the same brush.
What an absolute joke.
Alan.

[abaddonxi]

If it was my kid that died, I would have trouble keeping a straight face in front of a camera, too. I imagine the same of anyone on here.

Guys, someone's kids died, try and apply the same compassion that you would if it were a forum member's child dead.

Cheers
Simon

[vnx205]

CraigE
You're right about this problem and others becoming an endless cycle.

There is good evidence that children who are abused have an increased likelihood of committing the same offence when they are adults.

I'm sure the same thing happens with other issues too.

There are now families where no-one for three generations has held down a job. Where will children in that environment develop a work ethic?

I can see how you would have seen a lot of examples of dysfunctional families where you grew up. The examples I was talking about didn't come from a community where that sort of problem was common. In fact superficially the family looked like any other happy family.

The parental example is so important, but today there are so many other powerful influences such TV and peer pressure that in some cases it is overwhelmed.

I don't know what the answer is, but I believe that without appropriate role models, the answer will be harder to find.

Most of us have seen children go off the rails even when the parents have done everything in their power to bring up their children the right way.

Occasionally I have seen the children of irresponsible parents who have turned into model citizens. However that must take enormous determination on the part of the child.

[Bushwanderer]

No matter who they were, I'm sure that the consequence of their actions will be used as an example to others. Hopefully, this will mean that other lives will be saved and that the youngsters will grow up to be valued members of society.

[EchiDna]

retrospect is wonderful, but all this stuff can be taught to a two year old - respect for others, for others things, sharing, learning, obedience, discipline... by the time the kids are in primary school it's often too late, but not impossible to steer them onto the right road... you learn from young what is acceptable and what is not, we've all seen kids repeat behaviour after mum and/or dad's example (everything from swearing to belting other kids coz it's how dad gets his way around the house)...

like it or not, we are the product of our environment - I had a good one growing up, there is also no reason why others couldn't IF their parents gave enough of a damn....

[ramblingboy42]

ummm, can I ask all the parents to take a good look at the games their children are playing on their computers or game consuls......have you seen the latest Grand Theft Auto game?
there is a saying that what the mind of man concieves it can equally achieve... grand theft auto is just one of so many platform "games" condoning theft, lying, cheating, stealing, unbelieveable violence and equally expilicit bloodshed and destruction......and then theres television .....dont get me started

[Xavie]

Wow, what an eye opener of what people are like/think. A 10 year old kid doesn't know what he is doing and you think it's okay he died and have no sympathy?

wow.

Xavier.

[Xavie]

ummm, can I ask all the parents to take a good look at the games their children are playing on their computers or game consuls......have you seen the latest Grand Theft Auto game?
there is a saying that what the mind of man concieves it can equally achieve... grand theft auto is just one of so many platform "games" condoning theft, lying, cheating, stealing, unbelieveable violence and equally expilicit bloodshed and destruction......and then theres television .....dont get me started

Talking about GTA4. I was playing it just before logging on here. Great game:p Better lock your cars up next time I am out on a trip, lol.

Xav

[martinozcmax]

How sad. Don't care how old they were, what they were doing at the time or which racial category they belonged to it's a terrible waste of life.

Wouldn't wish it on any parent. There but for the grace of god.

Nature knows teenage boys do stupid things that's why (without ivf or choice) there are naturally 5% more boys born than girls. Mind you the way teenage girls are acting lately it may be just as dangerous for them soon, hopefully not.


Martin

[p38arover]

based on the fact that they are relatives of AFL footballers FARMER and PICKETT it would be safe to say that they are Aboriginal.

I should have Googled those names. They meant nothing to me.

The aboriginal community seems to have a problem that no one knows how to attack.

Having lost a child, as have others on here, I can begin to imagine how the parents feel. Mine son was an adult, the loss of child would be awful.


There are now families where no-one for three generations has held down a job. Where will children in that environment develop a work ethic?

We see that in the white community in some of the Housing Commission suburbs here in Sydney. (I realise that Simon is not saying this is a purely aboriginal problem.)


Wow, what an eye opener of what people are like/think. A 10 year old kid doesn't know what he is doing .

Xavier, that is the legal view. Kids of today are far more savvy than we were at that age. There have been calls to lower the legal age to below 10 for that very reason. It's called doli incapax.

We see them at work, they know they can break the law with impunity - and they tell us that.
See Legal definition of a juvenile [Young people and crime] (http://www.aic.gov.au/research/jjustice/definition.html)

[drivesafe]

I have my own racist opinions but in this case, being of one ethnic origin or another is really irrelevant and to say that at the age of 10, they do not know the difference between stealing and having fun is a tad hard to believe.

By 5 or 6, children will be in a position to know what is right and what is not.

By 10 they will know what is right and what is a criminal act, the difference is that by the age of 10 they will either decide to respect the property of others or know there is no means of punishing them for not respecting the property of others.

[simonr23]

ummm, can I ask all the parents to take a good look at the games their children are playing on their computers or game consuls......have you seen the latest Grand Theft Auto game?
there is a saying that what the mind of man concieves it can equally achieve... grand theft auto is just one of so many platform "games" condoning theft, lying, cheating, stealing, unbelieveable violence and equally expilicit bloodshed and destruction......and then theres television .....dont get me started

ok a bit off topic but that game and others like it are rated ma15+. so no-one under 15 is allowed to purchase it, rent it, nor play it. of course people under that age play it, but i guess that brings us back to upbringing/law abiding, etc.

i am a huge believer in nurture winning over nature. it's sad what happened to those kids on a human level. but i and all the people i associated with from say age 6-11(4 differernt primary schools in country SA) all knew what we were getting ourselves into if we did anything remotely wrong. i never stole cars, had fights, or anything that is considered criminal or really wrong. i recall trying cigarettes in yr4. i knew full well it was bad for me, that if my parents found out i'd be in very big trouble, but i still wanted to try it-once. i also knew that cars were fun, i could drive and always looked forward to getting the chance. but more importantly, i knew that it was someone else's property and never even entertained the thought of stealing.

kids at the age(s) that the 4 that died are very much socially aware of their actions and the points of view from both their own and of the victims. its sad that as a society people are regressing at nearly the same rate as out knowledge is increasing. i'm 26, so i'm hardly having a "back in my day" moment. but i'm aware enough to see sadness and negativity of today- irrespective of any other decade.

[vnx205]

Most people seem to be focusing on the 10 years olds.
I can understand why. The younger a person is, the greater the sense of loss if they die.

However I notice (if the newspaper reports are accurate) that the car contained two 17 years olds (one of whom survived), a 15 year old, an 11 year old and a 10 year old.

While there seems to be some disagreement about the extent to which 10 year olds are conscious of notions of right and wrong, I think most of us would accept that 17 year olds should know the difference.

It doesn't make it any less of a tragedy, but I think the debate is a little dishonest if we don't acknowledge that there were two 17 year olds and a 15 year old involved.

[GregTD5]

Do 10 year olds know right from wrong?
Well I have a 5 year old that certainly knows what he can get away with and what is wrong.
He knows he has to earn respect from others, whether that be from his teachers or his soccer coach. He also knows that if he doesn't respect them, then they won't respect him it all.

Did the kids deserve to die?
I don't think so, but they do deserve to be brought up knowing right from wrong!
Why is it always from the same demographic that these accidents happen, and that same demographic deny any responsibility, always claiming they were good kids and we are good parents. A good parent would have these kids in bed at this time.

My wife and I have differing views on this, and apparently I'm an uncaring unsympathetic *****.

I'm just glad the police and an innocent motorist weren't involved.

Greg

[V8Ian]

1st I am not racist
I have Aboriginal, Mid Eastern, Negro, Anglo Saxon, European & even the odd Yank friends. It,s not the colour of the skin that matters, but the colour of the heart.
I went to school, worked & socialised with Indiginous Australians, or Abos as we used to call them. NOT an insult (given or taken), a term of acceptance as in Simpson was Simmo, Clarke was Clarkey & MacAnything was Macca.
Scum is not predudice either, it comes in black, white & brindle.
Regardless of skin colour kids will not respect anyone, anything or themselves
unless they are taught to, the best teacher is example. The example has to start with self respect. Irrespective of ethnic origin all should be proud of their background & maintain the esteem of such.
The bleeding heart lefties from Sydney/Melbourne/Brisbane should visit Aurkun, Cairns, Alice, Normanton or Port Hedland. These are places I have first hand experience with, where varying percentages of Indiginous Australians let the decent "abos" down dismally.

[lokka]

No, the Police should be out at the scene and MAXIMISING THE IMPACT.


This coment stands out the most as no matter which way you look at it the 4 of them are now gone and its all of there own doing they all knew it was wrong to steal the car they all knew it was wrong to go joy riding in it and they all would have known just how dangerous a speeding car can be ....

Maby if this senario was used as an example and used to show young people what can happen if you steel a car or joy ride in a stolen car with a iresopnsable driver that you are putting your life and others in danger maby just maby it may sink in to those who may have the urge to do such stupid stuff ...

Nothing sticks as good as seeing what happens to a mate who thought joyriding is good fun and that you should have a go untill you see that what he thought was so much fun has now ended his life before it even got a chance to grow maby the police ,comunity and the education system should push this into the younger generations face so they might think twice about doing such a stupid thing ....

[simonr23]

then there will be the people who say its wrong to show such horrific images/videos/scenarios to young people. the same young people dying of drug overdoses, creating gangs, having underage unsafe sex, stealing cars, robbing late night stores, etc.

[DirtyDawg]

How interesting this conversation would be for the "do gooders" here.....

ie: "there only kids for godsakes" yeah mate but what if the tree had been your misses and your kids in there family car on the way home from school...still the same reaction, I think not..

Heritage, culture call it what you bleeding like..but do the crime, do the time....no matter what your blackground is.

All the little kids that die in Africa from famine don't have a chance..these little bastards did and chose to ignore it. G.A.D.A

[bushrover]

Talking to a Psychologist mate and he says values are established by the age of 6-7. These kids new what they were doing was wrong, worst still is their parents, guardians and immediate family are the solely responsible members of our society who instilled these values, not politicians, police, teachers or you and I. Is loosing their children punishment enough, I believe so but what of the rest? There are do gooders bleating and squeeling about the intervention in NT, it should be extended to the rest of the country and include all Australians.

As well as the other freebies mentioned earlier, most who attend the funerals will not have to pay for fuel, accomodation, food etc to attend. I have a relative who works for a particular group, who actually pays all the funeral attendence costs and I might add gets called a racist white f...... c... if some claims dont meet guidelines.

[stevo68]

Hmm, have been reading this thread over the last couple of days wondering whether to engage or not.......considering the topic matter. At 40 yrs of age and 5 children in our family from a 14yr old stepson, 11 yr old daughter, 10 yr old son and a 5 and newborn I do not buy into the following:


Kids will be kids.
Can't discipline your kids for this, that or whatever reason.
Blaming Media, TV, Games
That this situation is specific to a particular race or culture.I grew up with a strict father, got the belt as punishment and other crap chores to do. I didnt back chat my parents...god forbid and all my mates were raised similiarly. I went to a private school, got caned in 5th grade for something that really was quite stupid, but none the less took the punishment. General punishment was caning, detention, physical punishment ie like a full back pack in cadet uniform boots etc and doing laps of the oval etc. Rarely if at all would a student back chat a teacher. There was no ADD, those that were "naughty" had the book thrown at them and it was soon knocked out of them. I look back and see where fellow class mates have gone into all sorts of professions and industries. Did all of them, no, but a bloody large majority did.

As a father I am strict, not to the extent of my old man, I took what was good and left the rest. Here, there is the Letter of the Law and the Spirit of the Law, children were taught at a young age manners, respect, chores and the consequences of not following instruction. They have had their backsides paddled when needed or had some other form of enjoyment taken away from them. My 10 and 11 yr old definately know right from wrong.

Without being the "proud" father, I am constantly told how well behaved and mannered they are. They are growing up in a world of internet, TV, games etc but that doesn't mean that my responsibilities as a parent have changed. Average weekend they play outside, don't care what they do but it is not inside playing games etc. I let them know what movies or shows they can watch, there is no way on earth that I wouldn't know where anyone of our children are at any given time.

For sure when I was young, I made mistakes but I knew it was a mistake and wore the consequences....ditto my children, they are not angels, but when it comes to the crunch they choose the right path. Where do these morals and values come from............me, my partner and my ex, that is our job. Unfortunately not everyone holds the same values and morals........recent newlines with toddlers dying in prams......children found starving.......this one young children killed in a car accident.

In these cases we have to rely on as a society our schools.......well forget that in Public, teachers dont seem to have a leg to stand on...........Police......again dont seem to have a leg to stand on.......so we as a society have to suffer in different ways the spawn of those that couldnt give a rats about being a parent. I was looking at my beautiful 11wk old son last night and could not imagine how anyone could harm a baby, let alone raise a child with such little care.....it is beyond my comprehension.

As for race, statistically you will most likely find there is more "white scum" producing such lovelies, who are on the dole, who are living in housing commission or conversely are in lower to middle class area's who contribute to a problem that has been around since I was a kid, the difference being it was better controlled. Aside from the odd kid who may have some sort of "mental defect" the average child is like a computer chip...to the age of 2-3 they pick up on everything them around them.......that is the basis of who they will become. As they get older their parents, the environment they grow up in will only re inforce those attitudes and behaviours.

I think it is sad that 4 young people died, no doubt due to the environment they grew up in. That said, at that age they also knew what they were doing and in this case have worn the most extreme of consequences. The only light maybe if it changes the perspective of one other from where they are from to choose a different path,

Regards

Stevo

[RonMcGr]

I grew up with a strict father, got the belt as punishment and other crap chores to do. I didnt back chat my parents...god forbid and all my mates were raised similiarly.

As for race, statistically you will most likely find there is more "white scum" producing such lovelies

Stevo

Due to your upbringing, you did not steal cars. Your Father would have killed you :eek:

Mine was the same.

The "white scum" would have no doubt been raised by "white scum".

Unfortunately, they are usually good breeders, all for the wrong reasons.

[Tombie]

Wow, what an eye opener of what people are like/think. A 10 year old kid doesn't know what he is doing and you think it's okay he died and have no sympathy?

wow.

Xavier.

BOLLOCKS!

Open your eyes... They know exactly what they are doing, they know they are breaking the law and they Know they can't be held responsible under the current laws...

BRING IN the crime "GRAND THEFT AUTO" and lock the little bastards up..

Or better still, bring back public floggings..

[scarry]

stevo68

excellent post....says it all:)

my mother had 4 of us boys in 5 yrs....the old man was very strict.we got the stick very often.mum she used it too and her hand.it hurt as well.at school we were caned,either 4 or 6 across the hands.also had to work all day in the yard,got the **** jobs etc.

i hated it then,but now believe it was the only thing my parents could have done to control us.

none of us ended up in jail...all have got families& good jobs etc.

now for my kids....both boys i was strict with them as well,but like you, not as strict as my old man.

both of them are just over twenty,have got good jobs(work for their father),havent stolen any cars yet so must be going ok:p;)

ummm if one of us was caned at school,we would also get a dressing over when we got home no questions asked....none of this crap the teacher could be wrong...back chat?....there was no such thing at our place.....even a smirk was enough for more punishment


as has been said this is what is missing in todays society:(

[stevo68]

Due to your upbringing, you did not steal cars. Your Father would have killed you :eek:

Mine was the same.

The "white scum" would have no doubt been raised by "white scum".

Unfortunately, they are usually good breeders, all for the wrong reasons. True, even when my parents split when I was 15/16 and I did something wrong, a phone call from my father had me "sweating" bricks :angel:


stevo68

excellent post....says it all:)

my mother had 4 of us boys in 5 yrs....the old man was very strict.we got the stick very often.mum she used it too and her hand.it hurt as well.at school we were caned,either 4 or 6 across the hands.also had to work all day in the yard,got the **** jobs etc.

i hated it then,but now believe it was the only thing my parents could have done to control us.

none of us ended up in jail...all have got families& good jobs etc.

now for my kids....both boys i was strict with them as well,but like you, not as strict as my old man.

both of them are just over twenty,have got good jobs(work for their father),havent stolen any cars yet so must be going ok:p;)

ummm if one of us was caned at school,we would also get a dressing over when we got home no questions asked....none of this crap the teacher could be wrong...back chat?....there was no such thing at our place.....even a smirk was enough for more punishment


as has been said this is what is missing in todays society:(. Thanks for the compliment mate and you also raise some good points as well. When I got caned and mind you was about the same age as my eldest son now 10, I was packing it. Got home, Mum already knew as school had called, got a rip roaring from her and the good old " Wait till your father comes home".........that was enough for the tears to start to well up. Dad comes home and I am marched straight into his study.

I explained to him what I did and that I got caned. I thought here goes round 2, instead he just looked me in the eye and said are you ever going to do it again.........No Dad........and I meant it.........Good he said, getting caned is no fun ( he knew as caning back in his day in England was a lot more popular) but as long as you learn from it thats what counts. Not lets sue the school or teacher. I remember vividly how at times I ( as Scarry points out) hated it at times, but as an adult am thankful for it. Bit like being told....wait till you are a parent by my mum :D.

Oh and what did I get caned for...... remember those ( cant remember the name of them) but you wrote something on I think 4 corners of a piece of paper, folded it so you could put 4 fingers in it and someone would give you a number and you would count out the numbers and open up that corner and there would be the message. Sort of looked like an arrow head, oragami type thing. If that rings a bell, I had put things in about teachers I didnt like and a particular bloke at school with some rather blue language in it.

Anyhoo a mate of mine ( and I use the word mate...very loosely) won it off me in a game of marbles. That afternoon...Mr Mason ( who I had called a bearded old buggar) came into my class and called me out. My mate was in his class and had caught him with it. Rather than take ownership, he outed me in 2 secs flat :mad:. Then off to my housemaster who delighted in whipping and flexing the cane before 6 of the best across my legs. After that a dressing down by the headmaster, who had a soft spot for me as I was normally known as a good kid, and told not to do that sort of thing again.

Regards

Stevo

[BMKal]

And the latest news - Police have found another stolen car, bogged and torched, close to where the Commodore in which the boys were killed was stolen from. Police are investigating any possible links between this second vehicle and the boys involved in the accident.

Any bets ???????

[Hucksta]

And the latest news - Police have found another stolen car, bogged and torched, close to where the Commodore in which the boys were killed was stolen from. Police are investigating any possible links between this second vehicle and the boys involved in the accident.

Any bets ???????

Most vehicles, i think about 90% of them, are either dumped by the crook and recovered by police within about 7 days. It would be interesting to know when the other car was stolen, I would hazard a guess that it was stolen about 3 to 5 days before the crashed one.:mad::mad:

This is standard for procedure for car thieves. Dump a car, burn it out to destroy evidence then look for closest and easiest vehicle to steal next. They have still get from A to B to spend the welfare cash ....... Oh yeah, chuck in a few petrol thefts along the way and there you have it. All in a days work for a crook.....:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Hucksta

[LandyAndy]

Yes tragic they lost their lives,nobody deserves to die like that,either in a stolen vehicle or been cleaned up by one.
These KIDS,not young men somebody called them,were on a spree.It was revealed today they stole another vehicle earlier in the nite,they got it bogged,they torched it then stole the fatal vehicle nearby.
Im sure white kids also get out of control and do simalar things.Drugs,single parent families and lack of discipline at home and school have to be the root of the issue.
Send all juveniles that are out of control to those "Brat Camps" the yanks specialize in.They may detox and learn some life skills before they end up involved in such a tradgedy.
Im not saying these kids involved were on drugs,from single families or unruly.But I believe normal kids dont play this way.
Andrew

[CraigE]

As said it was tragic and I do actually feel compassion for the families going through this loss.
However it was not an accident. The car was stolen and driven recklessly. I think the general population are just sick and tired of seeing these buggers steeling cars, b&e etc, leaving the owners without transport, getting chased by police, endangering the public and killing and injuring others. In most cases these little turds get nothing more than a slap on the wrist, while the true victims may pay the price for life. Even the young guy whos car was stolen, if he is not insured who is going to help him get a new car to replace the one stolen? Yet if these kids had survived and been arrested they would have every resource placed at their disposal as they are regarded as disadvantaged.
My kids are not quite teenagers yet, so undoubtedly I have a lot to learn in the next few years and I would stand by them through thick and thin, but hopefully we have installed a good sense of right and wrong in them and yes I will stand partially accountable if they go off the rails.

[landy63]

Years ago we used to have a Boot camp in WA for waywood kids to be sent to by the Courts ,Instead of gaol or detention centres .

Here they were given some real discipline type learning Army style, dont know what happened to it , but i think the Doo Gooders and the anti- evereything Brigade got it closed down . Pity as it may have put a few kids on the right road .

[Gaz_Series6202]

Ok Im 18, 19 at the end of the year. I knew wrong from right when I was 5. I also know of people older than myself who know it's wrong and still do it and get away with it. As alot of prople on the forum, I agree they got what they deserved.

Prime example, Myself at the end of last year i got caught speeding, got sent to court. Got 6 months Disqualification and $700 worth of fines. I knew what I was doing was wrong, I still did it and graciously accepted the concquences.

If i were Aboriginal, I could have turned around in court and baught it up. I probably would have gotten a feather over the back of my head insted of a slap on the wrist. As much as I thank the Magestraite for her leniency, I want too see the penalties (and speed limits:p) rise, its not right that we have the biggest distence between towns and a 130km/h National top speed. I will stop before i start a different rant.

Gaz_Series6202

[juddy]

Sorry to sound awful, but post after post says no one deserves to die like that???? You are the maker of your own fate, drive like a **** crash, kill yourself then whos to blame, bad parents, maybe, but did they force you to drive the car??? This sort of thing did not happen in my younger days or my parents days, sure we have alot more cars on the road now so accidents will happen more, but joyriding is a crime get chased by the police and one way or another you will pay the price. Its simple, anyone found to be driving under age or with out a licence or driving like a mad man ban them forever crush there car. Poor things what will they do now??? could be worse if they liv ed in Saudi it would be jail, and which hand would you like chopping off for your crimes????

[twitchy]

You're kidding aren't you? They were kids.
Pull your ****ing head in.

While it's sad to loose young people they know right from wrong. Just a bit more chlorine for the gene pool I guess.

[RonMcGr]

While it's sad to loose young people they know right from wrong. Just a bit more chlorine for the gene pool I guess.

Wow! For a Rudd man, I'm surprised :D

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Got to admit, Ive no sympathy for them. If they are young enough to nick the cars they are young enough to accept the outcome of there foolish behavior.

If Id nicked a car when I was young...and survived... The fait awaiting me when I got home would have been worse than PC plod slapping my wrist...

However, despite having idiots for children, I do feel heavily for the parents - they obviously loved there "sweet" children & there life will never be the same again. I also feel for the poor chap that had is car nicked, though I guess thats partly what insurance is for.

No doubt ones tragic loss will go to promote the dangers of stealing...

[EchiDna]

well I will say this, the youngest of these kids (the 10 year old) may or may not have been a pure follower of his big cousins, I know at that age I idolised my older cousins... but that doesn't alter the culpability of the older teens involved in any way, if fact quite the opposite, if they had any respect for anyone or anything, they would know that they are responsible for looking after the younger ones.


on another tack, there is an article in today's Age about some "good boy" who couldn't do a thing wrong by his mum and sister... only one problem with that - he was a known ice dealer according to Police and ended up stabbed to death and burnt beyond recognition while tied to a matress in a park. Me thinks this "good boy" did something wrong to someone somehow, but yet his mum still claims he wouldn't do anything to hurt anyone... er mum, he is dealing drugs - wake up!!! *shakes head*

[Relay]

Much as it's nice to say, they were bred to crime... it's not always/necessarily the case. Funny, that realistically two years ago, I stood on the unsympathetic side of the fence much as the rest of you.

Now I have to stand with my parents, by my parents, and say that there is nothing they could have done, to change the outcome of what is occurring in my family right now. Similarly, it's not your place to even speculate that it might be the case in this scenario. If you knew the family, fine... but spinning possibilities to your own fantasies only serves to make you feel better.

Perhaps the only appropriate way to take news like this, is to learn from the mistake...tell your kids, tell your friends that have kids: This is what you do, and these are the consequences.

[jimbo110]

Perhaps the only appropriate way to take news like this, is to learn from the mistake...tell your kids, tell your friends that have kids: This is what you do, and these are the consequences.

:BigThumb:

[Anya45]

June 28, 2008 12:30pm
PERTHNOW EXCLUSIVE: FOUR boys killed in a stolen-car crash on the weekend stole, bogged and torched another car earlier the same night, police say.

Pinjarra police today confirmed that a stolen car was bogged and torched on Morrell Rd in Pinjarra a short distance from where the boys stole a Holden Commodore involved in the death crash.

Sergeant Darrell Phillips-Jones said there was ``probably 100 per cent chance'' the boys were responsible for both thefts.

"They (the boys) would be people of interest to us,'' he said.

"There was a vehicle there that was burnt out that was reported stolen.

''It (the Pinjarra address where the crash car was stolen from) is not far as the crow flies.''

PerthNow was first alerted to the Morrell Rd stolen car by a reader who posted one of hundreds of comments about the case currently running on our site.

Debate: see more Reader's Comments now

"Well, well, well... Who knows the full story here of the group's activities on the fateful night?,'' wrote a local reader calling himself Watcher.

"Their first stolen car of the night was thrashed, bogged and subsequently set alight on Morrell Road, north of Pinjarra at about 9.40 pm. The group then walked about 800 metres to where they then stole their second car of the night, at about 10.00 pm from a farmhouse near the turnoff to Fairbridge.

"Yes, there will be those who claim it was just a coincidence and the boys walked 25 kms from Mandurah to the farmhouse to steal that particular car . . . Then they drove, very rapidly, to their deaths. This is not an exercise in blame or racisim. It is an attempt to get to the truth.''

In pictures: the boys, the crash scene

Brothers Matthew Indich, 15, Benjamin Nannup also known as BJ, 11, and Jeremy Nannup, 10, and their 17-year-old cousin, Quentin Humes, died when driver Quentin lost control and hit a tree in bad weather about 10pm on Friday.

Natalie Clarke, the mother of three young boys who died in a stolen car on the weekend, says she was a good parent whose children were led astray by their cousin.

The boy's deaths have polarised opinion in WA, with many people believing such a loss could have been avoided with better parental care. PerthNow has received hundreds of comments (below) from readers voicing disbelief at how young boys could be so poorly unsupervised that were out at night in a stolen car.

However, others sympathised that it was not possible to control children all the time.

Ms Clarke told reporters yesterday that she would never have knowlingly let her sons put their lives at risk and had not known they were out "joyriding'' with their older cousin Quentin.

She said that despite being strict with the boys, they would sneak out of the house sometimes and play with older kids "which is what young kids do sometimes''.

Supporters of the family rallied yesterday to support of the grief-stricken mother while police spoke of the ongoing problem of young Aboriginal children in the area being attracted to crime.

Peel Supt Dave Parkinson said that generally the problem was due to lack of proper parental supervision.

Poll: who's to blame for out of control kids

THE three brothers and cousin were remembered for their radiant personalities and unfulfilled promise.

Another of their cousins, 17-year-old Beau Pickett, who was the front-seat passenger in the crash, was seriously injured.

``This is more than a tragedy, it's a spur for me and for other people who work with Aboriginal people in this area to do something because we know that it's just three talented boys gone,'' said Greenfields Primary School teacher Michael Bruijn, who taught the three brothers.

``The thing that gets me is their beauty. They were such beautiful boys. They had great smiles, they had great personalities - they are things that I'm going to sorely miss.

``I never thought this could happen to kids like that.

``They were so nice, so polite, so respectful. They were really well behaved when they were monitored. When they're with people who don't try to coerce them into things they shouldn't do, they were just role models for other people.

``I guess the hardest part is to get through this part of it. I know the family is absolutely devastated.

``But from there we need to look to the future and say, `What can we do for these children and children like them?'

``They are stuck in a zone that doesn't seem to hold much for them. They need to be given an opportunity to develop as adults and become role models for the next generation.''

Mr Bruijn described the trio as promising footballers with great on-field prowess, playing with the Mandurah Centrals and Pinjarra Tigers football clubs.

``Everybody I speak to tells me their on-field skills were pretty phenomenal ... they were very talented, very quick,'' he said.

``They had the brightest smiles, they had the brightest futures.''

Natalie Clarke, mother of Jeremy, Benjamin and Matthew, choked back tears as she told The Sunday Times how much she would miss her ``little boys''.

``They were good little footy players and had a lot of talent, but they just got mixed up in the crowd. They will never be replaced.''

Their grandmother Jane Nannup said: ``They were very bright, happy boys and this is a very, very sad loss - I feel terrible about it.''

Peter Humes, Quentin's father, said: ``Quentin just turned 17 last week on the 14th of June. He was a happy go lucky boy who enjoyed helping his twin sisters with their little babies.

``The family are comforting each other and trying to get through this as best we can.''

Premier Alan Carpenter last night offered sympathy and expressed his own frustration.

``What a tragic waste of young life,'' the Premier said.

``All that potential gone in one fell swoop. Absolutely shocking.

``I am a parent. I know it's easier said than done to have 24-hour knowledge and observation of what your children are doing and when they are doing it. The parents of these kids must be absolutely devastated ... I don't want to rush to conclusions.

``But as one parent to others, whatever you can do to monitor your children - especially so young - to prevent them from getting into these situations and this tragic outcome, we all need to do that.''

Police said an unlocked 1989 model Holden Commodore had been stolen from a farming property on South Western Highway, Pinjarra, about 10pm on Friday.

It is understood Jeremy and Benjamin Nannup were killed instantly and their brother Matthew Indich died while being airlifted to Royal Perth Hospital.

The car, which was believed to have been travelling at up to 130km/h, swiped a metal power pole and flipped before the pole cut the vehicle in half.

Yesterday, distressed family and friends made the heartbreaking journey - some from as far as Geraldton - to the crash site.

Two young men, who said they were brothers of one of the victims, told The Sunday Times their families were struggling to come to terms with the tragedy.

``That was my brother,'' he said, pointing at a contorted metal lamp post.

Police said Mr Pickett, who sustained a cut hand and a gash to the head, walked 500m to raise the alarm. He was taken to Rockingham Hospital for treatment.

[CraigE]

There is also another reason 8-10 yo are involved. The 17 yo know they can blame the younger kids for the actual theft if caught and the repercussions legally for the younger kids are a lot less if any. Sorry to be pessimitic but I have heard that straight from car thieves in the past. Sad that some people think that way.