Diesel cars more expensive to run

[WhiteD3]

Diesel cars more expensive to run - drive.com.au (http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=54392&s_rid=smh:ClassiePuff)

The survey:
http://www.racv.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/Internet/Primary/my+car/advice+%26+information/vehicle+operating+costs/

[RonMcGr]

Diesel cars more expensive to run - drive.com.au (http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=54392&s_rid=smh:ClassiePuff)

That is why all mine are petrol :D

[rick130]

you lot didn't read this, did you ? :p


It is only in larger cars, such as soft-roaders and four-wheel-drives, that diesel begins to save families money..............


...........Choosing the diesel-powered Nissan Patrol 4WD will save you more than $13,300 over five years, relative to the petrol model........

but why would you buy a Land Cruiser ?? :D


The Toyota LandCruiser 4WD, however, is the other way around - the diesel costs nearly $20 a week more to run......

......The Toyota LandCruiser turbo diesel 4WD costs $401.53 to run each week and is the most expensive car in Australia to run.

[djam1]

Rick a Nissan Diesel is false economy they usually go bang before the 5 years are up then you simply add another 12k to your sums.
This is assuming that it is the grenade engine??

[Bigbjorn]

The survey factored in standing costs as well as running costs to get a total cost. This is how fleets arrive at a cost per kilometre. Standing costs are depreciation, registration, insurances,etc. Given that they are talking about new vehicles and the diesel vehicles are more expensive to purchase and accumulate more depreciation by reason of that, then the higher cost is true. If you have bought say an LR Isuzu which has finished depreciating, has virtually no engine repair costs, only oil and filters, and uses half the fuel of a petrol engined equivalent, then the diesel vehicle is cheaper to run.

[JDNSW]

Looking at the figures shows quite clearly where the real costs of running a car are - depreciation and interest. And in most cases the extra cost of a diesel means the increase in these numbers swamps the running cost advantage of diesels.

No surprise, and the situation gets worse as interest rates increase.

The obvious solution is to minimise the big numbers - never buy new, and keep it for a long time (and pick your model). If you do this the running cost advantages of a diesel start to show. But these figures show just how small the advantages are of low fuel consumption.

John

[rovercare]

If you have bought say an LR Isuzu which has finished depreciating, has virtually no engine repair costs, only oil and filters, and uses half the fuel of a petrol engined equivalent, then the diesel vehicle is cheaper to run.

And a gearbag rebuild:D

[RonMcGr]

Looking at the figures shows quite clearly where the real costs of running a car are - depreciation and interest. And in most cases the extra cost of a diesel means the increase in these numbers swamps the running cost advantage of diesels.

John

That is if you plan on selling it.
I buy an old one and write it off after purchase.
It will be stuffed when I get rid of it :D

[JDNSW]

That is if you plan on selling it.
I buy an old one and write it off after purchase.
It will be stuffed when I get rid of it :D

Writing it off does not do anything except put the full purchase cost onto it immediately - and the cost per kilometre keeps going down the longer you keep it, as the number to divide into the cost gets bigger, offset somewhat by the opportunity cost of the capital, which varies only as interest rates change, but is time dependent not mileage dependent.

John

[werdan]

The finance/deprecation stuff is all great but it doesn't answer the question why diesel is so much dearer than petrol when a/ it's a lot cheaper to make then petrol and b/ other countries like NZ have diesel 10% cheaper than petrol so therefore it's not related to global demand. Is this a mining boom thing?

[samuelclarke]

All I get from that report is that it makes sense to buy a car after it's had it's biggest depreciation hit - so from a financial standpoint it makes sense to buy a car that's over 5 years old and do it without going into debt. You aren't necessarily saving money buying a new car...so, all the more reason for me to fully restore my 16 year old Defender and keep on driving it for the next 5-10 years. :D

[Rosco]

And a gearbag rebuild:D

........... or 2 or 3 .... That was my experience. The engine was brilliant ... the gear bag was the pits :mad:

[F4Phantom]

I say this is bull crap. Years ago diesels did not use a whole lot less fuel and they didnt neccessarily have more torque but they made the torque at lower rpm, this was worth the effort to most. Then diesels started getting more torque and better fuel economy and diesels became more attractive but people always went back the performace issue that diesels were always sluggish, now diesels have more power, more torque, and far better fuel economy and the only thing left to fall back on is higher purchace price and higher diesel prices. We have always paid premium prices for fast cars xr8's HSV's etc, they cost more, used more but this is ok because of the performace.

Now diesels give better performance (diesel astra is apparantly 1 sec behind a boxter S on a track and 2 secs behind an STI) and for all this better performance you win with less consumption, but apparently this is still not enough. There will always be people arguing the pure maths of petrol but its not as simple at that if you include performance and other diesel attributes.

In addiditon to all this to some people time is money, if you can fill up one time per month or one time per 2 months because you have a 1000km or 1400km range, then surely filling up several times in that period has cost you more, in fuel to the trip to the station, in time etc.. (this is splitting hairs but this is what the article does) With the i30 only winning by 50c a week in diesel this is only $25 a year, so small savings could have an impact here.

In all these cases this is buying new and as mentioned this is a poor way to save money. If you buy a proven and reliable diesel car/4x4 around the 10 to 15k mark you will be well in front.

[JDNSW]

...........
In all these cases this is buying new and as mentioned this is a poor way to save money. If you buy a proven and reliable diesel car/4x4 around the 10 to 15k mark you will be well in front.

Against this is the fact that as people panic at the cost of fuel, the price of second hand petrol vehicles has dropped relative to the same thing in diesel, dramatically so if the dreaded word "V8" is mentioned.

But as you point out, there are major advantages to diesels other than running cost! And these are generally what decides people to buy one.

John

[JDNSW]

Another interesting point in these tables - the two most expensive cars to run in the small car sector are the two hybrid cars - the Honda Civic hybrid affording a direct comparison, being about 12.5% more expensive to run than its conventional counterpart.

By contrast, the only LPG one I noticed was the Falcon, and here the lower fuel cost translates almost straight into lower running costs - since it is only about $1500 dearer.

John

[Utemad]

This just shows why I'll never buy a new car.

My V8 on LPG will do me for years to come (I hope).

I wonder what the diesel Cruiser vs petrol Cruiser comparison would be once you hooked up a 3 tonne van and drove it around the country. Would the diesel still be more expensive to own?

As said some prefer diesel and some prefer petrol and will pay the extra either way. The same as some will pay the extra to own a new car over an old one.
If choosing a car was purely an economic choice then it would be pretty boring.

[JDNSW]

T.....
If choosing a car was purely an economic choice then it would be pretty boring.

That's for sure - what usually happens of course is people decide (often with the help of an astute salesman or advertising campaign) which car to buy, and then justify it. If you juggle things like how long you plan to keep it, how much fuel will cost in the future, how much depreciation there will be, etc. you can make the numbers look good regardless of your choice. Of course some people just get what they have decided, and don't even try to justify it! (They usually are not married)

John

[isuzurover]

And a gearbag rebuild:D

The PO had mine rebuilt before I bought it ($4500 rebuild!!! - Maxi Drive).

[F4Phantom]

That's for sure - what usually happens of course is people decide (often with the help of an astute salesman or advertising campaign) which car to buy, and then justify it. If you juggle things like how long you plan to keep it, how much fuel will cost in the future, how much depreciation there will be, etc. you can make the numbers look good regardless of your choice. Of course some people just get what they have decided, and don't even try to justify it! (They usually are not married)

John

and thats why whenever someone askes "which car for me" the answer is nearly always "buy what I got" because people want to think they made the right choice. Not so much on this site because we all own the same thing, and I dont usually see fender owners trying to convince a family of 5 to buy a 2 door series.

[aussiefx]

Good thing about diesels is that I can go to my local fish and chip shop, pick up their old oil an run it on that. I still add some diesel to it as I'm running a single tank but it's only costing me the equivalent of about 50c a litre. Sure I have to put a little of my time and effort in but I think it's definetly worth it (plus I'm helping the environment - win / win :) ). Sure, you can run a petrol car on LPG but a) you loose quite a bit of power, b) the LPG consumption (l/km) is usually much higher than with petrol and c) very few cars come from the factory with that option.

I think I'll be sticking with my diesel for a while yet...

[vnx205]

I should have known JDNSW would beat me to the punch on this one.:p

Anyway the figures calculated from this survey to support his argument are as follow:
Fuel costs for a Landcruiser for 15,000km @ 14.74 c/km = $2211
Fuel costs for a Commodore for 15,000km @ 14.68 c/km = $2202
Fuel costs for an Aurion for 15,000 @ 13.45 c/km = $2017

So if you replace your Landcruiser with a Commodore, you save $9 a year.
If you replace your Landcruiser with a Toyota Aurion, you save $194 a year.

Or of course if you were really only using the two front seats in the Landcruiser, you might replace it with a Corolla and save a whole $642 a year.

Or another way of looking at it is that even if you didn't even drive it a single kilometre each year the Landcruiser would still cost twice as much as a Corolla driven 15,000 km.

Driving a Landcruiser or any other 4WD is not expensive. Owning one is.

The reason it is so expensive to own is that it costs an obscene amount of money to start with.

I don't suppose anyone doubted JDNSW's argument about fuel being a relatively unimportant consideration for owners of newish cars, but I must admit that even though I knew he was right, I was surprised at just how right he was.:D

[isuzurover]

I should have known JDNSW would beat me to the punch on this one.:p

Anyway the figures calculated from this survey to support his argument are as follow:
Fuel costs for a Landcruiser for 15,000km @ 14.74 c/km = $2211
Fuel costs for a Commodore for 15,000km @ 14.68 c/km = $2202
Fuel costs for an Aurion for 15,000 @ 13.45 c/km = $2017

So if you replace your Landcruiser with a Commodore, you save $9 a year.
If you replace your Landcruiser with a Toyota Aurion, you save $194 a year.

Or of course if you were really only using the two front seats in the Landcruiser, you might replace it with a Corolla and save a whole $642 a year.

Or another way of looking at it is that even if you didn't even drive it a single kilometre each year the Landcruiser would still cost twice as much as a Corolla driven 15,000 km.

Driving a Landcruiser or any other 4WD is not expensive. Owning one is.

The reason it is so expensive to own is that it costs an obscene amount of money to start with.

I don't suppose anyone doubted JDNSW's argument about fuel being a relatively unimportant consideration for owners of newish cars, but I must admit that even though I knew he was right, I was surprised at just how right he was.:D

Like Utemad - I have never bought a new car and never will.

However - for some people, the purchase cost and depreciation is not necessarily a bad thing - if they are using it to offset tax.

I think the most interesting thing in this study, is that the prius is only the 2nd most fuel efficient car in its class!!! And all the vehicles in the slightly smaller "light" car class are more fuel efficient.

[incisor]

I was surprised at just how right he was.:D
there will be no living with him now.... :p

[inside]

One thing with comparing the price of diesel and petrol together is that as it gets more expensive the percentage difference between the two decreases.

When diesel was a $1.20 and petrol a $1.00 it was 20% more expensive. At this point in time it is 15% more expensive at $2.00 it will be 10% more. When comparing new models I think due top this fact the diesel option should retain better resale.

[rovercare]

One thing with comparing the price of diesel and petrol together is that as it gets more expensive the percentage difference between the two decreases.

When diesel was a $1.20 and petrol a $1.00 it was 20% more expensive. At this point in time it is 15% more expensive at $2.00 it will be 10% more. When comparing new models I think due top this fact the diesel option should retain better resale.


But diesel used to be CHEAPER than petrol:(

[WhiteD3]

Fuel costs for a Landcruiser for 15,000km @ 14.74 c/km = $2211
Fuel costs for a Commodore for 15,000km @ 14.68 c/km = $2202
Fuel costs for an Aurion for 15,000 @ 13.45 c/km = $2017

Did up my log book, receipts, etc this weekend for my tax return.

Fuel cost for a D3 V6 for 26,770km, mixed cycle, was $5857 or 21.9 c/km.
Back-calculating this:
An average 98 octane price (over the fin year 2007-08) of $1.33 gives 4417 litres consumed for the year, or 16.5 L/100km which is what I average.

The LC V8 petrol came in at 19.71 c/km.

Have I missed something in the report? It states "The calculations are provided as a guide to the cost of owning and operating a vehicle over a five year, 75,000 km (15,000 km per year) period.". But it does not say what the average fuel price was, used in the calcs.


My first fuel receipt in July 2007 was @ $1.19/L, last receipt from last week was $1.72/L. That's a 40% increase:eek:

[vnx205]

Something wrong with the LC/Commodore/Aurion values above I think.


The figures for the Commodore and Aurion would be about right for 15000 if fuel cost about $1.40

10 litres/100km = $14 per 100km = $2100 for 15000

The Landcruiser driver must have had a very light right foot or a blend of used vegie oil.:p

[vnx205]

16.5 L/100km which is what I average.

My 4 cyl petrol Series III LWB could match that on a good day.

Mind you, it weighed about a tonne less and went about 20kmh slower.:p

[p38arover]

I(f you are towing a van, I suspect the diesel will be more cost effective (sorry RonMcGr).

Not having to refuel every couple of hundred km would be good!

[RonMcGr]

I(f you are towing a van, I suspect the diesel will be more cost effective (sorry RonMcGr).

Not having to refuel every couple of hundred km would be good!

Ron,

That is very true :)
I'd love one of those 3.6 :DV8 twin turbo V8D's in my beast

[p38arover]

Ron,

That is very true :)
I'd love one of those 3.6 :DV8 twin turbo V8D's in my beast

:)

When I towed my son's van with the 300Tdi Disco, the Disco got 14 litres/100km (vs 10 litres/100km without a van). However, the 4.6 Rangie on LPG towed the same van far more comfortably, at greater speed (at about 100-110km/h), but consumed 29 litres/100km. That's twice the consumption of the diesel but the LPG was 1/3rd the price. The net difference is that the LPG cot 2/3 the price of diesel.

Refuelling more often is a pain, though. :(

[mcrover]

:)

When I towed my son's van with the 300Tdi Disco, the Disco got 14 litres/100km (vs 10 litres/100km without a van). However, the 4.6 Rangie on LPG towed the same van far more comfortably, at greater speed (at about 100-110km/h), but consumed 29 litres/100km. That's twice the consumption of the diesel but the LPG was 1/3rd the price. The net difference is that the LPG cot 2/3 the price of diesel.

Refuelling more often is a pain, though. :(

Just remove the back seat and fit numerous large gas tanks and then you could get the same range and better economy as the diesel :D

I know it is possible and there is nothing wrong with the theory but it just isnt practical.

Stock standard on road bias tyres, no accessories hanging of them, a 300Tdi Disco can consistantly turn high 7's and low 8's.

Ive heard of 300 Tdi Deefas doing similar.

I think that is good enough and makes them bloody cheap to run for a 2 tonne brick which sits 2 feet off the ground.

The Hybrid costing is spot on what I posted about them a few months ago that I read in a Casey council news letter thing about the Prius V Carolla but this study compared it to the Camry which is in a different class.

Edit : Your post reminds me of the story of the Tourtis (sorry Ron sp?) and the Hare....

[JDNSW]

.......
Edit : Your post reminds me of the story of the Tourtis (sorry Ron sp?) and the Hare....

Tortoise (save Ron the trouble seeing he has eye problems).

John

[p38arover]

Just remove the back seat and fit numerous large gas tanks and then you could get the same range and better economy as the diesel :D



:D:D


Stock standard on road bias tyres, no accessories hanging of them, a 300Tdi Disco can consistantly turn high 7's and low 8's.


Not the way I drive! The Disco has HT tyres. The best I've got (cruising at speed) is 9.

I think that is good enough and makes them bloody cheap to run for a 2 tonne brick which sits 2 feet off the ground.


Edit : Your post reminds me of the story of the Tourtis (sorry Ron sp?) and the Hare....

Yep. The Disco towing a caravan is a tortoise!

[rovercare]

Stock standard on road bias tyres, no accessories hanging of them, a 300Tdi Disco can consistantly turn high 7's and low 8's.

Ive heard of 300 Tdi Deefas doing similar.

....


http://www.aulro.com/afvb/659663-post41.html

[BigJon]

Of course some people just get what they have decided, and don't even try to justify it! (They usually are not married)

John

:D:p:D:cool:

[hiline]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/659663-post41.html:oops2::bangin:

not sure what my 130 fender does pr/lt :angel:

but i do know its costing me about $30 more a week to get to work
from $50-$60 up to $80-$90 :(

[mcrover]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/659663-post41.html

Yep Matt but since then I have met 2 people one with a 2 door stock as a rock on Hankook road tyres who has it on paper that he gets consistantly into the high 7's but that isnt really taking into account any error correction of the odometer.

The other is another white '97 model auto that is on 73ltrs got 863kms.....I work that out at around 8.4ltrs/100kms.

I do make comments on what I see for myself and as I have said before, if you can prove that I am wrong I will change my mind.....no problems.

All your post has proven Matt is that you know how to use the search button....horray for you.....:clap2: :BigThumb:

[mcrover]

:oops2::bangin:

not sure what my 130 fender does pr/lt :angel:

but i do know its costing me about $30 more a week to get to work
from $50-$60 up to $80-$90 :(


And Im assuming that you are meaning that I have made some sort of mistake.

I stated VERY CLEARLY in that post that I knew 12 other people who own Discoveries with 300Tdi's and none of them get below 8 l/100kms.

At that time that was correct, since then I have met someone who showed me written proof which was enough for me to now post that it is possible to get into the high 7s which showed that he got 970kms out of 76ltrs....7.835ltr/100kms (2 door blue manual Lt77).......Yep it was a long trip that he did and as I stated it didnt account for any error in the odometer.

I think that is pretty fair coment but I do understand that you wont and you will more than likely make some coment about I cant stick to anything and all that crap.

[vnx205]

While I am not suggesting that anyone else is doing this, I have found an easy way to produce records that show I regularly use less than 7 litres/100k in my 300Tdi.

It doesn't require any modifications either to the vehicle or my driving style.

Here's how it works:
I start by ignoring the 6% error in my odometer to give my figures an extra little boost.
When the tank is getting down near half empty, I fill up and stop as soon as the nozzle clicks off. I have done about 310 km and put about 21 litres in.
I conveniently ignore the fact that if I kept dribbling fuel in, I could easily get another 7 litres in the tank.
I work out my consumption as 310 km on 21 litres = 6.9 litres/100k
Next time I fill up, I make sure that I fill the tank until diesel dribbles out all over my shoes, but I forget to write down the amount I put in.
By alternating these two filling techniques and only making a note of the consumption when the figures look good, I can regularly get low 7s or better.I have found that the same technique works if I feel the need to demonstrate that one brand of fuel is much better than another. I just use one brand on the quick careless fill and the other on the careful fill.

You too can have fuel consumption figures that will either impress your mates or have them shaking their heads in disbelief.

[hiline]

And Im assuming that you are meaning that I have made some sort of mistake.

I stated VERY CLEARLY in that post that I knew 12 other people who own Discoveries with 300Tdi's and none of them get below 8 l/100kms.

At that time that was correct, since then I have met someone who showed me written proof which was enough for me to now post that it is possible to get into the high 7s which showed that he got 970kms out of 76ltrs....7.835ltr/100kms (2 door blue manual Lt77).......Yep it was a long trip that he did and as I stated it didnt account for any error in the odometer.

I think that is pretty fair coment but I do understand that you wont and you will more than likely make some coment about I cant stick to anything and all that crap.

if you read the 2 posts you will see a different response to both as most do
:oops2: i wasn't questioning you at all my response was to Rovercare as i quoted..........:D
get over yourself;)

i was only saying i have to pay extra to get to work :D

which is around $30 a week just incase you didn't get that the 1st time.........

[Desert Traveller]

I have diesel VW for my town car. It costs $2k less than the petrol model and gets 50-60% better fuel economy. It is so far ahead of the petrol on a cost basis.
My D3 diesel uses twice as much fuel but then it is twice as heavy.

[rovercare]

I stated VERY CLEARLY in that post that I knew 12 other people who own Discoveries with 300Tdi's and none of them get below 8 l/100kms.

.

No you stated only one of them got into the 8's;)



I know about 12 people with 300tdi's in their landies personally and I only know of 1 that has made it into the 8's


and it was a mistake:p



and then we found out that his speedo was out and when we worked it out he was really getting around the low 9's


and you didn;t believe otherwise



I just dont believe them and as was said about one of my posts the other day that there is a lot of BS on the forum about this sort of thing.


and if we read the thread from here, your pretyy adament about it to:p

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/48451-300tdi-vs-td5-3.html



I really think you need to check your figures a bit closer as with the quality of fuel in OZ and unless you only drive down hill, never stop and start, only drive with a tail wind and have no mods at all I dont see anyway of getting into the 7's with a 300TDI unless your running LPG fumigation.




Without answering those questions then everyone else who has only ever made it into the low 9's at best out of their 300TDI's wont know what the secrate to your absolutly extrordinary claims.


I see why everyone argues with you, its either fun? or your always contradicting yourself?

A little from colomn A and a little from colomn B:)

[dobbo]

Everytime I walk into the golden arches I look for Mcrap on the menu

Still cannot find it, I know it exists though.


Anyhoo

I have had my TD5 down to 8l/100km's

My 4BD1 is 12.5l/100km's consistantly over any terrain, that with the JT2's on

[foz.in.oz]

I find this all very interesting (especially the arguments :D:D) and would like to draw your attention to the article in the latest copy of Land Rover Owner International.
They take a D90 of 200tdi vintage, strip off all the unecessary bits such as winch, roof, doors, passenger seats, jacks and tools, fit road tyres and modify it with cling film for extra streamlining, :o place a man of boy like statue behind the wheel and take it for a spin. Result; somewhere around 48 mpg. :) Translated to Aussie fuel consumption 6l/100km :eek:

It can be done. They were extreme. But like they said, fit the right rubber, maintain your vehicle well and only carry what you need (take note Dave) and good fuel economy is available to us all. However, if you are like me, you will keep the muddies, carry your fridge all the times, drag a tonne of tools around and drive you like not how you should. Fuel economy isn't everything. I don't like paying 175 for a litre of fuel when I know darn well it costs half that, but I do like driving my Defender, so for the time being I will cut down on the cat's food and drive it like I'm supposed to.

[mcrover]

No you stated only one of them got into the 8's;)



and it was a mistake:p



and you didn;t believe otherwise



and if we read the thread from here, your pretyy adament about it to:p

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/48451-300tdi-vs-td5-3.html





I see why everyone argues with you, its either fun? or your always contradicting yourself?

A little from colomn A and a little from colomn B:)

There is 1 thing that is coming very clear here.......your very good with a spanner and good to have a drink with but get on here and your a **** head.:mad:

We will just call you Ray jr from now on :D

That post was a fair while back and like I said.....I have met people with stock standard discos that are kept in good condition.

It did surprise me and I am still a bit dubious about it but it does show that it is possible if not 100% acurate.

Any one can nit pick matt, doesnt make you clever, just makes you a nit picker and a **** head.

Now go and find everything you can to try and Ray it up again and post a whole lot of stuff that I have said that might contradict myself....I dont really care, I just wanted to call you a **** head again.

[mcrover]

if you read the 2 posts you will see a different response to both as most do
:oops2: i wasn't questioning you at all my response was to Rovercare as i quoted..........:D
get over yourself;)

i was only saying i have to pay extra to get to work :D

which is around $30 a week just incase you didn't get that the 1st time.........

Yeah Ray, you Quoted Matts post which was a link to one of my posts FROM THE PAST before I had met the people I have JUST posted about.....:p

I dont know why Im bothering, you dont have the brain power to get a hold of the reasoning behind it and your just another Nit picking **** head.

[dobbo]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/07/1131.jpg


hey look what I found

[mcrover]

Everytime I walk into the golden arches I look for Mcrap on the menu

Still cannot find it, I know it exists though.


Anyhoo

I have had my TD5 down to 8l/100km's Got proof....or is that just Dobcrap?

My 4BD1 is 12.5l/100km's consistantly over any terrain, that with the JT2's on


Read my signature if you dont like it....:mad:

[hiline]

There is 1 thing that is coming very clear here.......your very good with a spanner and good to have a drink with but get on here and your a **** head.:mad:

We will just call you Ray jr from now on :D

That post was a fair while back and like I said.....I have met people with stock standard discos that are kept in good condition.

It did surprise me and I am still a bit dubious about it but it does show that it is possible if not 100% acurate.

Any one can nit pick matt, doesnt make you clever, just makes you a nit picker and a **** head.

Now go and find everything you can to try and Ray it up again and post a whole lot of stuff that I have said that might contradict myself....I dont really care, I just wanted to call you a **** head again.

i'll call you FAT FILTHY HOBBIT again then :mad::mad:

for once in your poor sorry life admit your are wrong;)

[mcrover]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/07/1131.jpg


hey look what I found

Is that from your dolls house......?

I dont think it would get very good fuel economy....:D

[dobbo]

Read my signature if you dont like it....:mad:
I know this post has upset at least 1 of the people reading it so my heart felt appology goes out and I hope that you will forgive my insensitivity and will not hold it against me.


Feel free to put me in your ignor list



Ignore has an E on the end of it.

[dobbo]

[COLOR="Red"][SIZE="7"]
Got proof....or is that just Dobcrap?


Yes I do actually, but whats the issue, if you want proof of life you need to get one first. It's a 5 cylinder electronically managed engine, of cause it can equal if not better an old 4cyl mechanically injected diesel


Is that from your dolls house......?

I dont think it would get very good fuel economy....:D

No it wouldn't, however it would make a good suppository whilst the Dr performs the operation to take the chip, (sorry Mc Fries) of your shoulder.

Grow up man, it's embarassing

[mcrover]

Yes I do actually, but whats the issue, if you want proof of life you need to get one first. It's a 5 cylinder electronically managed engine, of cause it can equal if not better an old 4cyl mechanically injected diesel



No it wouldn't, however it would make a good suppository whilst the Dr performs the operation to take the chip, (sorry Mc Fries) of your shoulder.

Grow up man, it's embarassing

Ray Itis is spreading........:p

[hiline]

Ray Itis is spreading........:p

i dont see how my name can be dragged into every argument this KNOB has
on the forum..........:mad::mad::mad:


its a real pity that the mods around this site dont get the chance meet this KNOB in person like we have had to:angel:

KNOB i think you'll find the common denominator is.....















wait for it



















its almost here



































McRover not Hiline :D:D

[dobbo]

http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_scene/images/2007/09/13/springer.jpg


talk to the hand.

[p38arover]

Ignore has an E on the end of it.

You missed the other errors. :p

[mcrover]

i dont see how my name can be dragged into every argument this KNOB has
on the forum..........:mad::mad::mad:


its a real pity that the mods around this site dont get the chance meet this KNOB in person like we have had to:angel:

KNOB i think you'll find the common denominator is.....















wait for it



















its almost here



































Hiline not McRover :D:D

That looks better....

How do you know Im taking about you........are you the only Ray that is a total Knob?

Funny how you blokes were arguing with everyone well before I came along....

Like the pot calling the kettle Black to me...

I think thats enough of the personal cracks though, again I will not post anymore in this thread so do your worst....:p

[dobbo]

You missed the other errors. :p

No I have just come to the conclusion that APPOLOGY is the Australian way of spelling Apology

even some teachers spell it that way.

[hiline]

We will just call you Ray jr from now on :D


Now go and find everything you can to try and Ray it up again and post a whole lot of stuff that I have said that might contradict myself....I dont really care, I just wanted to call you a **** head again.


Ray Itis is spreading........:p


That looks better....

How do you know Im taking about you........are you the only Ray that is a total Knob? no idea why

Funny how you blokes were arguing with everyone well before I came along.... i've only ever had 1 other argument on this forum and that was with Drivesafe years ago so i dont know where that comes from

Like the pot calling the kettle Black to me... mate your a full kitchen of them .........

I think thats enough of the personal cracks though, again I will not post anymore in this thread so do your worst....:pseems most of the personal attacks come from you or started by you

lets hope you keep to what you say this time about not posting

[p38arover]

I wish you blokes would meet at the pub, have a few beers, then a punch up to sort it out between you! :mad:

[mcrover]

lets hope you keep to what you say this time about not posting

Nah...Changed my mind just to make you happy.....:D

[mcrover]

I wish you blokes would meet at the pub, have a few beers, then a punch up to sort it out between you! :mad:

Yeah tried all that, he's just a meat head.......thats all :D

[mcrover]

Hmmmmm...not very good at keeping your word are you?
This really is getting boring McRover

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Derrrrr then stop reading.......:p

[dullbird]

Hmmmmm...not very good at keeping your word are you?
This really is getting boring McRover

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/numpty_01/fishslap.jpg



the fish..................lol

[mcrover]

I only just started reading :D Got fed up with it pretty damned quick too!!

Why don't you fix the spelling mistakes in your sig line? makes you look ignor-ant :D

Geez half the people in here would say I am......:p

I wont fix them because I dont care :o

Funny thing about all of this, any time that Ray and I get in a thread together and the bickering starts, the hits on that thread go through the roof and then when 1 stops the rest start.....Anyone might think that instead of not liking it.......you all secrately do.......:eek:

If you dont like what your reading then stop reading it, works for me and works for most other people outside of AULRO....:p

[WhiteD3]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/59265-fish-slappers-forum.html

[abaddonxi]

Time please, ladies and gentlemen.



Cheers
Simon

[moose]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/07/1129.jpg

[Disco Steve]

If you dont like what your reading then stop reading it, works for me and works for most other people outside of AULRO....:p


But we do come on here to read, and before you came along I was interested in this thread. so when you hijack a thread it anoys the living **** out of most of us.

[mcrover]

But we do come on here to read, and before you came along I was interested in this thread. so when you hijack a thread it anoys the living **** out of most of us.

I hyjacked the thread did I........oh ok


Try again.....I actually think it was Rovercare that posted that I was going against waht I had said before and the Ray piped up.

I just reacted to their posts.

If you dont believe me, go back and have a look for your self.:mad:

[mcrover]

But we do come on here to read, and before you came along I was interested in this thread. so when you hijack a thread it anoys the living **** out of most of us.

Ignore button is also usefull if you dont want to read what I write, as well as you could just skip what I post or anything that doesnt float your boat.

I cant believe that this needs to be explained when we are all adults on this forum, most of it is simple comon sense.

[rovercare]

Try again.....I actually think it was Rovercare that posted that I was going against waht I had said before

Correct...........on both counts:)

Take yourself off hidey would ya, your scareing the children:D

I'm off to bed now, spent 4 hours fixing the hire trailer to take to sydney, up at 4:eek:

Night night Damo, no contradicting yourself while I'm gone:p

[Disco Steve]

Ignore button is also usefull if you dont want to read what I write, as well as you could just skip what I post or anything that doesnt float your boat.

I cant believe that this needs to be explained when we are all adults on this forum, most of it is simple comon sense.

But I dont want to ignor everything you say as some of it can be usefull. othertimes its just ****.

[dungarover]

Okay, back on topic.

There's a bit of lodgic here. I'll always sway for the V8 camp myself but it depends on how your LR gets used. A weekend warrior is great as a V8, no comprimise and you have a cheap vehicle with a reasnobly cheap matenance bill. Diesel is great for long range touring as we all know but more exxy to fix/repair, etc..

Personally I can't see a point in a diesel for my needs. My rangie is hardly used as a road vehicle and onbly used in anger anyway so the extra $$ investment in a diesel is a waste of money, the V8 does the job and I only have to live with the hidious fuel bill on trips but it's well worth it :twisted::twisted::twisted:

Each to there own and it's a never-ending arguement and not worth getting into a ****ing contest for anyway

[Bigbjorn]

Well, we did not have diesel cars way back so I can only compare petrol prices and wages from then against now.

Old records from our family business show that in 1958 we paid 3/9d/gallon or 8.26c/litre then for super petrol and we paid a tradesman mechanic $36.20 for a forty hour week, two weeks annual leave was the norm, no long service leave, leave loading,or superannuation levy.

In 1970 a mechanic was being paid $72 exactly per week, three weeks annual leave, long service leave and leave loading had been legislated but still no superannuation. We were paying 42c/gallon or 9.25c/litre.

In 1984, the wage was $300 for a thirty-eight hour week, long service leave, leave loading and still no superannuation levy. Petrol was 34.9c/liter. Note the savage increase in price since 1970 as against almost no change from 1958 to 1970.

In 2008 a mechanic is getting around $1000 for thirty-eight hour week, four weeks annual leave, improved long service leave, leave loading and superannuation. Last Wednesday our local servo. had unleaded at 148.8c/litre.

So, in 1958 our mechanic could buy 438 litres of petrol with his gross weekly wage; in 1970, 778 litres; in 1984, 859 litres; in 2008, 672 litres.

At all times we regarded petrol as expensive but in the cities people tended to use cars much less than they do today. Often the family car was not used through the week except for very short trips. Most to and from work travel was by public transport. Until the rise of the supermarkets and malls, shopping was done locally and in small amounts as couldbecarried on foot or in the bus/tram/train.

So if you want the convenience, you must pay, otherwise stop complainig and alter your usage to a level you can afford.

[djam1]

Good points Brian my issue is I have never lived in a city.
Where I live there is no public transport and for me to travel to the nearest City for whatever reason I must drive 3200 km return and paying over $2 a litre for the privellage.
I guess the politicians think the way you do it must be a convenience for me to use my car so therefore I should pay, the alternative is a push bike or walking.
All Australians are equal NOT

[Bigbjorn]

Good points Brian my issue is I have never lived in a city.
Where I live there is no public transport and for me to travel to the nearest City for whatever reason I must drive 3200 km return and paying over $2 a litre for the privellage.
I guess the politicians think the way you do it must be a convenience for me to use my car so therefore I should pay, the alternative is a push bike or walking.
All Australians are equal NOT

We lived in Winton, Western Qld, and I would no longer choose to live in a remote area or even an inland small city, those who choose to do so should have taken into account the discomforts and inconveniences of living in these places, and ensure the remuneration compensates them adequately.

Most Australians now live in the five major conurbations and do have public transport but choose not to use it. I go for a walk each morning and my suburb is surrounded and bisected by major roads choked with traffic heading for the inner city and CBD. All these travellers are coming from suburbs served by fast ferries, electric trains, and/or air-conditioned express buses yet they choose to use their personal transport in frustrating stop/start traffic at great expense.

This is their free choice and they must pay the cost of making his choice.

The Fraser/Howard government made the decision that Australian crude must be sold at world parity pricing, and not at cost plus. Add the multiplicity of taxes to this pricing level and we start to see that petroleum products are artificially priced.

We are exporting LNG and LPG to Asia at ridiculously low prices, a few cents per litre. Why are we not refining this into consumer petroleum products and avoiding our dependence on overseas sources and overseas pricing.

[djam1]

True Brian True