the ethical mechanics of finding banknotes on the ground

[B92 8NW]

I'm talking about small sums, not $10,000 in a briefcase:D.

Would you keep it, try to return it to its owner, donate it to charity or leave it where it was? I was once told that it's deemed to be 'lost, mislaid or abandoned at common law', and therefore one may keep it.

I remember from Heartbeat, the old bloke claiming that he could "salvage" the coal off an abandoned truck as the "wheels were in water":D.

[hiline]

i would try and return it if possible

my wife once lost her purse 3 times in 1 week with a average amount of $600 in it :mad::mad::mad:boy does that hurt

so yes if i had a way of contacting them i'd return it........
but if i had no way of getting hold of them i'd keep it :p

[WhiteD3]

Did you see "No country for old men"?

[Michael2]

My father in law found $10 on the floor of Perth Casino, he didn't see who dropped it, so decided to keep it. Security (having seen events unfold on CCTV) apprehended him a few minutes later, argued that he should have returned it to the owner and banned him for 12 months!

That's because casinos hate to see people lose their money.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I actually believe that there is a charge of "steal by finding", so in fact it is not abandoned and there is no common law right to keep it. The question is not of ethics it's of criminality.

The appropriate process is to hand it in to a Police station and if no one claims it within 6 months it is yours. Whether it lasts in the Police station is another question of ethics, although most jurisdictions some sort of Police Integrity Commission, for that situation.

The law of the sea and salvage is completely another story but I do believe generally that to claim salvage the vessel or the salvaged cargo has to be at sea.

Diana

[hiline]

That's because casinos hate to see people lose their money.:Rolling::Rolling: nice one

[dobbo]

Posting a thread on the internet will not give you penance nor redemtion, you'll just have to live with the guilt of letting the owners kids starve whilst you spend their weekly shopping money.

Hypothetically speaking of course.


Now it's time for the big question,

How much did you score and what did you spend it on?

[p38arover]

Diana is right, if I recall correctly. In NSW, there was a case a few years back of a bloke finding a large amount and not reporting it. One of his colleagues did report it and the finder was arrested and charged, and convicted.

See, never tell your workmates.

Ahh, here we are: Guilty banker could have had $250,000 in the bag - National - smh.com.au (http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/guilty-banker-could-have-had-250000-in-the-bag/2005/10/11/1128796507054.html)

[vnx205]

I was told by a solicitor that he had a client who had lost his house because he had spent money he found.

How the money came to be lost is an interesting story in itself.

It involved tens of thousands of dollars.

His client handed the money in to the police station and when no-one claimed it he used the money to pay off his mortgage and to pay for an overseas trip.

The original owner who had originally thought his ex had taken it, tracked down the money after the 6 months was up, took the finder to court and won.

The finder had to sell his house to repay the money.

So will you be able to repay the money when the owner finds out where it went?:p

[EchiDna]

surely I'm not breaking the law if I pick up a $0.20 cent piece off the road? that's a fair stretch aint it?

I've found money a few times in my life, the most being 4 x crisp, new $50 bills when working in a bar on the floor after closing while cleaning up over 15 years ago.... hmm let me think, if I didn't keep it, who would have got it?? no doubt it would have gone to the manager and nobody would heard another thing about it.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

So, EchiDna,, did you go straight home---

or go out---:p

[Lotz-A-Landies]

surely I'm not breaking the law if I pick up a $0.20 cent piece off the road? that's a fair stretch aint it? ....
Yes you are breaking the law, however there is unlikely to be a charge in it as it isn't worth the Police time.


....I've found money a few times in my life, the most being 4 x crisp, new $50 bills when working in a bar on the floor after closing while cleaning up over 15 years ago.... hmm let me think, if I didn't keep it, who would have got it?? no doubt it would have gone to the manager and nobody would heard another thing about it.
That is why handing it in a Police Station is the correct process and $200 may be a sufficient sum for a young and eager constable to make a charge.

Diana

[crump]

I once found a handbag on the side of the road with a coulpe of grand in it as well as purse, credit cards, jewellry etc..It had the owners drivers licence in it and as I continued down the road on my bike I spys a tearful woman walking the roadside matching the photo on the licence. I pulled up and gave her the bag, which it turns out she had left on the roof of the car. She had recently been burgled and had got all her valuables together and then been chatting to a friend who had driven off with the bag on car roof.It didnt make me feel any better and she only offered $20 reward and I still had beans for dinner that nite.:(

[Bushwanderer]

Decades ago, I left my wallet on the roof of my car (in Bondi).

When I got home (Meadowbank at the time) I found I didn't have it, & gave it up for lost.

The next day, it arrived in the mail, complete. Even though it hurt, I gave the finder the $250 that was in the wallet.

Both felt pleased at having done the right thing.;)

Best Wishes,

[mudmouse]

Steal by find - yep it's an offence. To prove the offence you're got to look at what the item is, what steps you took to locate the rightful owner and a reasonable test that it was abandonded.

If you hand stuff in to a Police Station you get a receipt and you're asked if you wish to claim it if no one bobs up in the next six months. Otherwise it goes off to government auctions or in the case of cash, to state revenue.

I found a wallet when i was working in a servo years ago - it had $910 in it:o. I took it to the local cop shop and later found out the owner had collected it and been advised of where she lost it and who handed it in. NOT A DICKIE BIRD OF THANKS!!! Not that I wanted it but geez.

Ethics is just a case of thinking 'well how I feel if it was me' - that 10 bucks that you lose somewhere can mean a lot at times but maybe we should be more careful....... and it's great to help someone out if you can.

[FenianEel]

What about when you find cash in a pair of pants you haven't worn in ages?:D

I've "found" $38.63 in the Series 3 ute & SWB I acquired. This is mine though, I bought them on a "as is where is" basis. :D

[Sprint]

lol friend of mine bought a VL commodore for $100, needed a new bonnet, front guards, radiator and rad support panel

anyway, he pulled it apart, $92 of shrapnel scattered through the car, and a 1125ml bottle of bundy sitting at the side of the boot......

[cartm58]

It really does depend on location notes found, amount found, if there is some way of returning the lost money l will otherwise it goes into my pocket, my general rule of thumb is $50 or less its mine.

For some reason kathy keeps finding money of various denominations in our front yard when she goes out weeding, heard of tooth fairy but never weeding fairy.

[V8Landy]

I once found a handbag on the side of the road with a coulpe of grand in it as well as purse, credit cards, jewellry etc..It had the owners drivers licence in it and as I continued down the road on my bike I spys a tearful woman walking the roadside matching the photo on the licence. I pulled up and gave her the bag, which it turns out she had left on the roof of the car. She had recently been burgled and had got all her valuables together and then been chatting to a friend who had driven off with the bag on car roof.It didnt make me feel any better and she only offered $20 reward and I still had beans for dinner that nite.:(

I once saw $20 fall out of a guy's pocket i picked it up handed it back and walked away with no money in my pocket i was dead broke.It felt good to walk away and knowing i had done the right thing.Cheers Brett

[George130]

Last money I found was an attempt at a bribe. $50 note apeared on the bar when a friend and I bought a drink after providing witness details to the cops over an employee beating up a drunk. We told the bar man (Owner) it wasn't ours when he tried to use it to pay for our drinks and paid him. Cops told us later when we made our formal statements that yes that particular pub would do that to bribe the witness and use it in court if you didn't play their game.

[slug_burner]

When I was a young teenager I stepped out of dad's car in the supermarket carpark and found a ladies purse on the ground. Checked it for details found licence, address, credit cards etc. and a couple of hundred dollars. Asked dad to drive me around to the address, lady answered the door did not even know she had lost her purse. She said thanks and went back inside leaving me standing on the door step.

Did I feel good? I would have felt better if she had of given me a few bucks for my troubles but that's not how it went:(

[EchiDna]

I tells ya that $200 was homeless when I got it and it kept me in a home for another month and enabled me to work on Uni study for a month in preference to working like a dog all weekend to afford to live.


anyways, with the boot on another foot, I found a CD book thing with about 200 cd's and DVD's in it in the carpark near my apartment here in Singapore - stuck up a few notes saying I'd found it and this lady in her 40's calls me up claiming it was hers... I asked her the colour - she didn't know. I asked her some of the discs inside, she didn't know... I asked her to name the type of music or type of movies... she didn't know... guess what, not 15 minutes later I got a second call and the guy could name every single disc on the first page in the folder, then told me what was in the back page... I figured it was his so returned it to him... no reward, but one happy bloke! :)

geez if you want to scam someone doing the right thing, the least you could do is have a guess!!

[B92 8NW]

The 'money found in rarely worn clothes' scenario is very satisfying:D.

[Hucksta]

Ok Ladies and Gents,

I have some expertise in this area.

First of all, the easiest way to explain property under the law is this..... it has to have or have had an owner and it must be of some value, though not necessarily a monetary value.

Right, if one should locate some 'property' then it is that person’s civic duty to make reasonable steps to locate an owner. Failing to do that may render the finder open to an arrest and charges of Theft. (known as Theft by Finding in this case).:eek::eek:

Now, the question here would be, what are reasonable steps. Well, this is open to interpretation. It may mean that you make enquiries with people in the immediate area, lets say that is a minimum, or it may mean that you take out an add in the local paper (lets say that is the extreme). If you manage to do something in the middle it may mean you are ok. However, the value of the property may make your minimal attempts seem petty, say if it was $10,000, and if you only do the bare minimum then you might find yourself in more trouble than the early settlers.:p:p

If you ‘assume the rights of the owner’ without trying to locate the original owner, then you may find then that you are in more strife than Batman even though you may not really mean to ‘steal’ the property.

You also should take into account the points of proof for Theft, which are ….
1. Identification
2. Dishonestly
3. Appropriates
4. Property
5. Belonging to another
6. Intent to permantly deprive (not required for Theft of a Motor vehicle)

There you have it, for you to be found guilty of Theft the court will have to be convinced that you did all the above. This may be also be proven if you are seen doing what they call ‘Overt Physical Acts’. As in, you were seen by a witness to take possession of the property and nervously look around to see if anyone saw you, before pocketing it. This is used to prove guilt when there are no admissions. When arrested you say ‘but your honour, I wouldn’t have …..’ too bad if the court is convinced that what you did was dishonest by your actions alone.:o:o

As with anything to do with the law it is very grey.

I can tell you, at least in Victoria, if you find anything of value hand it in to a police station. If the property has not been claimed or an owner not located within 3 months then you are entitled to receive that property. :D:D:D

That is a very basic run down though, it gets much more complicated at court. :(:(:(

In saying all that, if you find something, lets see, like 1 million bucks, PM me immediately and we can work on a plan on how you can keep it, for a small fee of course:cool::cool::cool: …… my ‘commission starts at around 40%.:D:D:D:D:D:D

Good Luck

Hucksta

[Gillie]

When I was younger I found myself as a tourist in Harare Zimbabwe. I stopped there for 3 weeks with my girlfiend at the time. In the last week we went back to the bank where we had exchanged some money before and asked to change $400 Aussie Dollars for Zim Dollars.
The lady who served us was the originally lady who we exchanged some money with when we first arrived in the country. She started counting the money and said that the exchange rate was up today. Looking at the exchange board It was basically the same as it was when we first exchanged money and didn't think much of it. The girlfirend got bored and waited outside. I took the money and the exchange slip and compared to what was on the board. I noticed she had changed it as if I had given her American Dollars. I went outside and caught up with the girlfirend and worked out that we were around 2 or 5 thousand Zim dollars Up (I can't remember now) . Now even at that time it wasn't that much if you converted back to Aussie dollars. Maybe $100 or more Aus $ . Now what to do.? Well we did the right thing and went back into the bank to explain what had happend. The lady had served us and gone out the back for lunch. I told them I really needed to talk to her so they went and got her. When she appeared you could tell she was annoyed about having her lunch interrupted. I descreetly told her what had happened, and she started saying "God is good, God is great" I remember telling her her that "No, I am good, I am great"! She fixed up her error and I asked her what would of happened if we had not returned and she said that she would of had to pay the money back which would take her two years! Whilst there was no reward at least I had done the right thing and that felt pretty good.
Interesting to note that if the girlfriend had exchanged the money she wouldn't of noticed the error and would of kept going quiet innocently being none the wiser.
If the same error happened today I would of been a few 100 Billion zim dollars up!

[one_iota]

I lost $50 walking down the street.

It must have fallen out of my pocket.

I didn't realise it until I got home.

The next day I went to the police station and asked if my fifty dollar note had been handed in.

The policeman said that several $50 notes had been handed in that morning.

So far so good.

He produced several notes in plastic covers and asked me to pick the note I had dropped.

He then asked me if I could prove that it was the note....serial number...distinguishing features.

You know I hadn't kept a record of the note and they all looked the same to me.

It might have been the note I found on the street last week.

What comes around goes around.

So as for the legalities...some times the law can be an ass.

[abaddonxi]

Well you could write your name on every fifty that comes your way.


But, I reckon the fine for defacing currency be a bit more than a fifty.

:D

Cheers
Simon

[DiscoStew]

My wife hands in anything she finds even though she knows that the person she hands it to will probably pocket it eg she found some notes at a servo and handed it in. She does so because she is petrified that she might appear on A Current Affair in one of their little traps.

I couldn't believe the trouble I had trying to convince a bank teller that one of their colleagues at another branch had written my $150 withdrawal up as a deposit. She just wouldn't reverse it so the next day I went back to the same teller the next day who was much relieved as she had been in a lot of trouble for being $300 out at the end of the day.

[CraigE]

I was told by a solicitor that he had a client who had lost his house because he had spent money he found.

How the money came to be lost is an interesting story in itself.

It involved tens of thousands of dollars.

His client handed the money in to the police station and when no-one claimed it he used the money to pay off his mortgage and to pay for an overseas trip.

The original owner who had originally thought his ex had taken it, tracked down the money after the 6 months was up, took the finder to court and won.

The finder had to sell his house to repay the money.

So will you be able to repay the money when the owner finds out where it went?:p
If the original owner has not claimed it within the 6 months and all the paperwork is done by the police they would have no claim to it. That is legislation and if this case did in fact occur the judge has erred big time.

[CraigE]

I think it would depend on the circumstance and amount. If possible I would return it. I have done so with phones, wallets, purses etc. Now with the arrogance of some people I would call them and get them to collect it as there are a lot of people who show no thanks and I am not talking about a reward. I would reckon I have found and returned 20-30 odd items of value and money only to be mildly thanked 5 or 6 of those times. Offered a reward twice (which I refused and did not want) and had a bottle of bourbon dropped on my doorstep once (who was I to refuse that) for a substantial find. I have had a bag/purse snatched back when returned with all contents, no thanks at all. I have even been abused for returning a purse (as though I would return it if I stole it). I try to think most people would appreciate it but it seems a lot just can not bring themselves to say thanks.
I have also had several things returned and if of value offer a reward but at the very least a heartfelt thanks.
Small amounts I would keep as it will only go to the treasury anyway. How do you identify small sums of cash you have lost.;)
If you ask people as I have done in the past they will mostly try and take a guess or try and get it out of you how much you had found so they can say it is theirs. It amazed me how many dishonest people are out there. We did it as a test one day some years back when a mate reckoned most people are honest. We asked 20 people if they had lost $50 and 16 of the 20 reckoned they had and it was theirs, yet we did not actually find anything. Most could not explain how or where they lost it, just it was theirs. Some come up with some elaborate stories. Was an eye opener.
:o

[CraigE]

When I was a young teenager I stepped out of dad's car in the supermarket carpark and found a ladies purse on the ground. Checked it for details found licence, address, credit cards etc. and a couple of hundred dollars. Asked dad to drive me around to the address, lady answered the door did not even know she had lost her purse. She said thanks and went back inside leaving me standing on the door step.

Did I feel good? I would have felt better if she had of given me a few bucks for my troubles but that's not how it went:(
It does annoy you when you go out of your way and get no thanks. Even driving 20 or 30kms to return something of value. Now if they want it back they can come to me.

[Tusker]

snip

The appropriate process is to hand it in to a Police station and if no one claims it within 6 months it is yours. Whether it lasts in the Police station is another question of ethics, although most jurisdictions some sort of Police Integrity Commission, for that situation.

Diana

A copper told me years ago this is the best way to launder money. Seriously. They'll borrow $20 or $50 Fri night, put it back Monday. When you get it back it's a completely different set of notes!

Regards
Max P

[scarry]

i was walking around the ghan railway in thailand a few months ago & found a aussie $50 note blowing in the breeze.:)

great i thought

a little later found out it fell out of my wifes pocket:(

i wonder how much we have 'LOST' out of her pockets over the years:(

[Grimace]

If I found a large sum... lets say in this case 20G. The rangie would be getting a 5.2L stroker :twisted:

If I found a small sum... lets say in this case 50 bucks. Assuming I had no idea of who had lost it, it would be used to shout a couple of rounds at the pub :)

If I found a very small amount... lets say 5 bucks. I would donate it to a charity.

If I found a extreme large amount... lets say a damn lot of money. wooshhhhh, gone never to be seen again :angel:

[303gunner]

In my employment, we tend to find a fair few lost Mobile Phones. First thing is to scroll through contacts to find "Home" (or Mum or Dad) and give them a call to let them know we've found it. Sometimes, the phone is locked and we can't check the contacts, so we wip off the back and look at the SIM card. If it's Telstra, Vodaphone or Optus whatever, we give them a ring and report the phone found and ask them to contact the owner. Get this for CRAP SERVICE! Optus and Vodaphone WON'T contact the owner to let them know their phone has been found, even though it may be on a contract plan, be worth $$$$. They will happily keep on taking the monthly fees, or not care less that one of their customers has lost an item worth hundreds and advise them. And they have the customer details there in front of them on a screen in the call centre!:angrylock:

[Basil135]

Ok Ladies and Gents,


First of all, the easiest way to explain property under the law is this..... it has to have or have had an owner



But does one actually "own" cash?

I was always of the opinion that the cash we hold in our pocket is merely held as a surety against something the federal treasury holds, usually gold...


Can anyone clear this little bit of trivia up?

[Rosco]

But does one actually "own" cash?

I was always of the opinion that the cash we hold in our pocket is merely held as a surety against something the federal treasury holds, usually gold...


Can anyone clear this little bit of trivia up?

I think you'll find that was the case in the old days of LSD. I forget the actual wording but it went something along the lines of ........ "The Chairman of the Reserve Bank of Australia promises to pay the bearer the sum of One Pound in gold .... blah de blah

AFAIK all that's gone into history ... much as when you could have a slash in the main street, so long as you had one hand on a wheel of your wagon .... :D

[FenianEel]

AFAIK all that's gone into history ... much as when you could have a slash in the main street, so long as you had one hand on a wheel of your wagon .... :D

As Brendan Fevola & a few others have since found out:twisted:

[Hucksta]

But does one actually "own" cash?

I was always of the opinion that the cash we hold in our pocket is merely held as a surety against something the federal treasury holds, usually gold...


Can anyone clear this little bit of trivia up?

G'day Basil,

I can tell you 100% that cash is property and you 'own' it, this is stated in the Crimes Act. Never heard of the surety thing, not saying that something like that doesn't exist but it doesn't pertain to criminal offences.

Cheers

hucksta

[JDNSW]

I think you'll find that was the case in the old days of LSD. I forget the actual wording but it went something along the lines of ........ "The Chairman of the Reserve Bank of Australia promises to pay the bearer the sum of One Pound in gold .... blah de blah

AFAIK all that's gone into history ... much as when you could have a slash in the main street, so long as you had one hand on a wheel of your wagon .... :D

I think Australia went off the gold standard in the 1930s, perhaps even earlier.

John

[Disco300Tdi]

Speaking of policemen....

I was travelling along the Maroondah Hwy near Molesworth one sunny day, when I see in the rear vision mirror a police car coming up behind me.
As he neared closer he activated the lights and siren.
I started to speed up, now doing approx 130kmh, but he kept his pursuit up and was now gesturing with his hand to pull over.
It was becoming difficult to maintain control of my car now doing close to 165kmh. All of a sudden my car started to sputter and stall, rolling along and eventually pulling over to the shoulder with the policeman now right behind me.
We both alighted our respective vehicles simultaneously. He asked me my reason for speeding, my reply was that my wife had left me for a policeman and I thought you were trying to return her to me...:D:D