Head Gasket...

[sam_d]

During an inspection of my Disco the other the day my mechanic (reputable fella near St. Peter’s station) told me that my head gasket was leaking externally.

To fix it I was told would take 3 days and cost about $2400.

When I mentioned this to my colleagues at work there were dropped jaws and gasps all round followed by tales of how replacing a head gasket should take only and hour or so. Admittedly they are "armchair" mechanics or have only worked on Barinas and the like in the past.

I don’t think I am being ripped off by this particular mechanic but is replacing the head gasket such a mammoth task? I seem to remember the chirpy lad on the desk mention something to do with machining/milling and that materials and parts don’t cost much but that there is a lot of work to do?

Does this make sense to any of you more mechanically knowledgeable folks?

[up2nogood]

Seems to be a bit on the high side, unless they are talking about replacing a hell of a lot of parts.

It will take a while if a V8, disassembly around 2-3 hours @ $85/hr = $255. Head rebuilds wil cost you about $800 (incl VRS set at a guess). Clean radiator about $150, new thermostat $65, water pump $150, belts around $100. Reassembly around 3-4 hours @ $85/hr = $340.
Allow for cleaning and mucking around of another 4 hours $340 and $200 for stuff breaking like exhaust studs or a new rad hose, etc, $540.

Total $2,400.

So sounds right for an estimate of a good quality job, renewing stuff that needs to be without cutting corners. You could probably shave some time off those estimates and your heads shouldn't cost that much given it's their first time round.

You know what I'd do first? Check it's not actually the rocker cover gaskets ot the inlet manifold leaking. These tend to go first and leak down over the heads. So unless they are totally leak free and the head is the obvious spot, or they degreased the engine and pinpointed the leak, make sure these are checked.

[mike 90 RR]

During an inspection of my Disco the other the day my mechanic told me that my head gasket was leaking externally.

To fix it I was told would take 3 days and cost about $2400.

When I mentioned this to my colleagues at work there were dropped jaws and gasps all round followed by tales of how replacing a head gasket should take only and hour or so. Admittedly they are "armchair" mechanics or have only worked on Barinas and the like in the past.

but is replacing the head gasket such a mammoth task? I seem to remember the chirpy lad on the desk mention something to do with machining/milling and that materials and parts don’t cost much but that there is a lot of work to do?

Does this make sense to any of you more mechanically knowledgeable folks?


A quote is a quote $$$ .... These are the dollars, that are required for this mechanic to do the job

It's up to you to either ... accept the price ... or ... to obtain another quote

Keep in mind what he is actually going to do for the dollars ... it's always more than just a head gasket ..
I take it that it's the V8 ... so is he going to do both heads or just 1 ....

:)

[sam_d]

Seems to be a bit on the high side, unless they are talking about replacing a hell of a lot of parts.

It will take a while if a V8, disassembly around 2-3 hours @ $85/hr = $255. Head rebuilds wil cost you about $800 (incl VRS set at a guess). Clean radiator about $150, new thermostat $65, water pump $150, belts around $100. Reassembly around 3-4 hours @ $85/hr = $340.
Allow for cleaning and mucking around of another 4 hours $340 and $200 for stuff breaking like exhaust studs or a new rad hose, etc, $540.

Total $2,400.



Yeah, so that sounds about right then. Like I said originally, I didn't think I was being ripped off - I just wanted to know what you get done for your money.

And as for shaving time offf / cutting corners, it just isn't worth the potential problem further down the line for the sake of saving a few $$$ now.

Oh and one more question, what is VRS?

[sam_d]

A quote is a quote $$$ .... These are the dollars, that are required for this mechanic to do the job

It's up to you to either ... accept the price ... or ... to obtain another quote

Keep in mind what he is actually going to do for the dollars ... it's always more than just a head gasket ..
I take it that it's the V8 ... so is he going to do both heads or just 1 ....

:)

I just wanrted to know what I got for my money. And for something like this, it's not worth doing cheap I suppose.

And yes, it the good ol' V8. Would they normally do both gaskets even if one was faulty? I would have thought it would be good practice to do so.

[mike 90 RR]

And yes, it the good ol' V8. Would they normally do both gaskets even if one was faulty? I would have thought it would be good practice to do so.

Make sure it's both heads that are being attended to // Don't assume
Also get him to change the valve stem seals & lap the valves while there off
ESPECIALLY THE STEM SEALS

Also ask him about shimming the rockers if he's gonna shave or face the heads
(in other works ... Whats he gonna do)

[sam_d]

Make sure it's both heads that are being attended to // Don't assume
Also get him to change the valve stem seals & lap the valves while there off
ESPECIALLY THE STEM SEALS

Also ask him about shimming the rockers if he's gonna shave or face the heads
(in other works ... Whats he gonna do)

I'll ask next Wednesday when I take my Disco in - I'll take a list of questions :)

[mike 90 RR]

Hi Sam
The stem seals cause it's just rubber that's 10years old .. and thats why you get blue smoke on startup when they fail ... (2 dollar part .... so to speak)

Shimming may not be required .. but he should check the rocker clearance / tolerance on the hydrolic lifter as the height is being changed due to new head gasket & facing of head

[Tank]

I'll ask next Wednesday when I take my Disco in - I'll take a list of questions :)
When you go in next Wednesday ask them for a written, detailed Quote and list everything that will be done, including any machining of heads, projected labour costs and all replacement parts and any warranty on work done.
Sounds like you are going to Coopers, they do good work and have a reputation to uphold.
If you cant do it yourself, then this is the next best thing, Regards Frank.

[sam_d]

Sounds like you are going to Coopers, they do good work and have a reputation to uphold.

That's right, I am going there :)

I'm sure they will do everything that needs doing - my only concern is that the last couple of times I've taken my car there it came away fixed but there were bits that hadn't been tidied up and finished properly (eg cap not put back on brake fluid reservoir, trim not reattached inside etc). I hope that whoever is taking my engine to bits has a better eye for detail and does the job thoroughly.

That said, at least they spotted this problem now before it became a major problem later when I was halfway up a mountain or out somewhere a bit remote. The last place my car was at failed to spot this and that wasn't that long ago (in terms of time or kms).

[up2nogood]

Aside from making damn sure it's not the gaskets above the head gaskets leaking.......

It is wise to take the list, but don't hit the guys too hard about the head requirements as they won't know until they're actually off........

But do make sure they do all the stuff listed, other wise the job would be a bit dear.

[rovercare]

Aside from making damn sure it's not the gaskets above the head gaskets leaking.......

It is wise to take the list, but don't hit the guys too hard about the head requirements as they won't know until they're actually off........

But do make sure they do all the stuff listed, other wise the job would be a bit dear.

If they're leaking externally it'll be coolant, not oil;)

[Tank]

That's right, I am going there :)

I'm sure they will do everything that needs doing - my only concern is that the last couple of times I've taken my car there it came away fixed but there were bits that hadn't been tidied up and finished properly (eg cap not put back on brake fluid reservoir, trim not reattached inside etc). I hope that whoever is taking my engine to bits has a better eye for detail and does the job thoroughly.

That said, at least they spotted this problem now before it became a major problem later when I was halfway up a mountain or out somewhere a bit remote. The last place my car was at failed to spot this and that wasn't that long ago (in terms of time or kms).
That's exactly why you need them to give you a written list of the work and parts, always tell them if they have not done a job properly, if you don't it will happen again, they would prefer to hear of any mistakes and fix them, rather than having a dissatisfied customer telling all and sundry and always check the work before you leave and ask them to show you what has been done, it shouldn't p!ss them off and if it does, complain and threaten to take your business elsewhere, after all you are paying your hard earned and they dont want to lose your custom, Regards Frank.

[PhilipA]

This type of lack of QC drives Graeme Cooper nuts.
I had him fit a maxi eight years ago now, and on the way home I found that I had no dash lights as the mechanic had not plugged the dimmer back in.
I rang him up and complained and he read the riot act. Graeme regards the tidy up and cleaning as QC and tries to educate his staff.
Its a fine line for workshops where good mechanics are very hard to find and keep. How do they discipline staff to tie up the loose ends.
On a major job its just human nature to get one thing wrong, and now I expect it. I do it. Mechanics do it.
Its the willingness to for the workshop to listen and make amends that makes them good.
I should say that I count Graeme as a friend so I am probably biased.
Regards Philip A

[djam1]

This type of lack of QC drives Graeme Cooper nuts.
I had him fit a maxi eight years ago now, and on the way home I found that I had no dash lights as the mechanic had not plugged the dimmer back in.
I rang him up and complained and he read the riot act. Graeme regards the tidy up and cleaning as QC and tries to educate his staff.
Its a fine line for workshops where good mechanics are very hard to find and keep. How do they discipline staff to tie up the loose ends.
On a major job its just human nature to get one thing wrong, and now I expect it. I do it. Mechanics do it.
Its the willingness to for the workshop to listen and make amends that makes them good.
I should say that I count Graeme as a friend so I am probably biased.
Regards Philip A

Please all dont see this as an add for Graeme Cooper but I live the other side of the country and Graeme Cooper has gone to extreme lengths to help me, none of my cars will ever see a Graeme Cooper workshop but he has been really helpful to me and he has had no agenda in doing so

[Taz]

Today I spent 9.5hrs putting the heads back on my v8, after spending over 6hrs getting them off. My first time with a rover v8. If your not in the trade and it's your first time also, I doubt you will do it much quicker.

[PhilipA]

Good character building stuff young man.
Regards Philip A