300Tdi strong "extra" tickover rattle when warm.

[pommie]

Folks,

I have a problem with my 98, 300Tdi Defender, 155k on the clock - and I'm looking for some advice (the "crowd" is almost always right !).

There is a strong "unusual and very loud " engine rattle, appears to be at the front of the engine (appears at least) It only happens at tickover, when the engine is warm. It doesn't happen under any revs (stationary or not), or when the engine is cold. It's not the clutch - happens when it is in or out. Happens bonnet up or down.

Fan belt is brand new, and mechanic is pretty sure that it's not any of the pullys up front.

Otherwise it drives very very well as normal, no extra noise under load, no loss of power or anything. No more smoke (other than the black cloud at startup).

And it started all of a sudden. My mechanic thought it was the water pump dying so replaced it, but has not made any difference. I suspect that they only tested when the engine was cold (and so it wasn't happening at all).

The only other work that has happened just recently was the installation of an Enginesaver.

Now.... where should I start:

Harmonic balancer ?
Engine mounts ?
Exhaust (I only say this as it's happening only when hot)
The fan itself ?

Thanks for your help.

[B92 8NW]

Run the engine until it makes the noise, then see if it makes the noise with the belt off. If the noise stops, then you know its either fan bearings, water pump, alternation, ps, tensioner etc.

In fact I'd have thought the mechanic would have done this before replacing the water pump.

[long stroke]

Could be the engine mount's although it only does it when it's warm.

CHEERS TIM.

[one_iota]

Tappets?

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/55620-new-noise-300tdi.html

[zelko]

Mate

Also maybe check the Viscious coupler on the fan may have come broke.

Zelk

[mcrover]

Loose fan pulley bolts,
Tappets
Something hitting the fan e.g.fan shroud
Fan stuffed (the cluth can do silly things when it fails, this noise could be one of them).

[wally]

It could be the belt. Sometimes they squeak, but other times they make a sound that's a bit like a rattle at idle. And since it's only started since you changed the belt... With the engine running, hold a dri-lube stick against the grooved side of the belt and see if it stops.

[justinc]

I would be checking the harmonic balancer /crank bolt for looseness, especially if the rattle is LOUD. This can be only obvious at idle due to the torsional vibration at low engine speeds. Check it now before the end of the crank is damaged.

JC

[Andy-M]

I'm with Justin

Had the same symptoms with a 86 Hyundai sedan (daughters car). Noise would start and stop when the belt was taken off, elimination didn't lead to any pulleys, it was only by chance I noticed the bottom pulley bolt was finger tight :eek:.

Cheers Andy.

[pommie]

Thanks to everyone who helped- the knowledge of the "crowd" always more than the individual. Thanks internet !

I have documented the suggestions and they will be passed to the mechanics who are looking at the problem Tues this week. Sadly I don't have any time this week even to look at the easy stuff in daylight :(

Will let you know what they find.... personally my money is on tappet adjustment. That was the mechanics initial guess too.

[jimbo110]

I would be checking the harmonic balancer /crank bolt for looseness, especially if the rattle is LOUD. This can be only obvious at idle due to the torsional vibration at low engine speeds. Check it now before the end of the crank is damaged.

JC

Mine must have been loose from the time I bought it (2 years) though it got very loud all of a sudden. When I checked it, I could undo the bolt with my fingers. When the bolt was tightened up the engine was the quietest it has ever been, much better than when I bought it. At the time I bought it I thought the noise was normal :o

[JohnE]

aside from the usual suspects, ie tappets harmonic balancer etc
you could also check the tensioner pulley for the fan belt,
the easiest way is run the motor and while it is idling look at it from the side if it bounces up and down the rubber bush is shot. Mine was making a rattly noise after i did the tappets and the tensioner was the culprit, i replaced it and the noise dissapeared but the bearing was ok. But sometimes the bearings go on them too.

john

[pommie]

Expensive news from mechanic this morning (a very Land Rover specific mechanic may I say) - It's not the harmonic balancer, it's not tappets, it's not lose belts or bolts. It's "something at the back of the engine".

It's all suddenly become very very very expensive - with engine lifting required. :( We are talking 1000s.

Comments ? (or better still some serious donations ??)

[justinc]

Expensive news from mechanic this morning (a very Land Rover specific mechanic may I say) - It's not the harmonic balancer, it's not tappets, it's not lose belts or bolts. It's "something at the back of the engine".

It's all suddenly become very very very expensive - with engine lifting required. :( We are talking 1000s.

Comments ? (or better still some serious donations ??)

Hmmm, Loose flywheel bolts possibly but unlikely. I have a broken 300Tdi crankshaft sitting here that made some interesting harmonic balancer type noises, and the vehicle drove 400+ km like that!! In fact, I drove it into the workshop, thinking that all I have to do is check the harmonic balancer bolt....:eek: How wrong was I!!! The crank had broken through one of the big end journals, and we needed to replace the conrod too, as it was the only thing holding the crank together:eek:

I hope this isn't the problem:(

JC

[The ho har's]

you live in Vic Justin C is only a short boat ride:angel: away get him to look at it
as we trust Justin



just a thought

Mrs ho har:D

[pommie]

Thanks to everyone who helped- the knowledge of the "crowd" always more than the individual. Thanks internet !

I have documented the suggestions and they will be passed to the mechanics who are looking at the problem Tues this week. Sadly I don't have any time this week even to look at the easy stuff in daylight :(

Will let you know what they find.... personally my money is on tappet adjustment. That was the mechanics initial guess too.

Well apparently it was the clutch dying. Comments ?

It's been replaced and I am told that the nasty rattle has gone. :clap2:Won't be able to verify I have a chance to pick up next week (I'm o/s at the moment).

Also replaced the brake pads with originals to stop the loud (enough that the neighbours complain, and I once shocked an old guy off a bicycle !) brake squeal.

[justinc]

Well apparently it was the clutch dying. Comments ?

It's been replaced and I am told that the nasty rattle has gone. :clap2:Won't be able to verify I have a chance to pick up next week (I'm o/s at the moment).

Also replaced the brake pads with originals to stop the loud (enough that the neighbours complain, and I once shocked an old guy off a bicycle !) brake squeal.

I have seen a clutch pressure plate come to bits, and a friction plate damper spring come out and make a whole lot of noise, so I'm hoping that was what it was!

Glad to hear it wasn't a big horror story!


JC

[pommie]

I have seen a clutch pressure plate come to bits, and a friction plate damper spring come out and make a whole lot of noise, so I'm hoping that was what it was!

Glad to hear it wasn't a big horror story!


JC

Yes that's exactly the description the mech used. It was a very sudden and nasty sound - so it was clear that something had suddenly broken.

But I will believe it when I don't hear it. Can't pick it up til next week. :D

[pommie]

Yes that's exactly the description the mech used. It was a very sudden and nasty sound - so it was clear that something had suddenly broken.

But I will believe it when I don't hear it. Can't pick it up til next week. :D

All fixed. It was a collapsed clutch. All replaced with original parts.
Noise has gone [was the clutch], clutch is considerably lighter, and (maybe I'm imagining this ????) but the car seems to have more power ?? :BigThumb:

Also replaced some other stuff like squeeling brake pads (of biblical proportions), belts etc. Drives and sounds like new.