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incisor
8th July 2008, 05:05 PM
sorry no photos... :eek:;):angel:

on a serious note

just had an interesting chat with qld transport regarding kids in front seats of utes and panel vans..

i was a bit taken aback to hear that you can have kids in the front seat at any age as long as they are in an approved booster seat or capsule suitable for their weight.

i was under the impression they had to be twelve, but that is no longer the case it appears.

now to investigate anchorage point options....

whats the rules down south ?

one_iota
8th July 2008, 05:21 PM
Here you go grandad,;)


This is what we say the Iemma way:

266 Wearing of seatbelts by passengers under 16 years old


(1) The driver of a motor vehicle (except a bus or motor bike) that is moving, or is stationary but not parked, must ensure that this rule is complied with for each passenger in or on the vehicle who is under 16 years old.
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.

<A name=pt.16-rule.266-sub.1-nt.1>Note. Bus, motor bike, motor vehicle and park are defined in the Dictionary.

(2) If the passenger is under 1 year old, and not exempt from wearing a seatbelt under rule 267, the passenger must be restrained in a suitable approved child restraint that is properly fastened and adjusted.

<A name=pt.16-rule.266-sub.2-nt.1>Note 1. Approved child restraint is defined in subrule (7).

<A name=pt.16-rule.266-sub.2-nt.2>Note 2. This subrule is not uniform with the corresponding subrule in rule 266 of the Australian Road Rules</I>. A reference to subrule (5) has been omitted because it is not reproduced in this rule.

(3) If the passenger is under 1 year old, and the motor vehicle has 2 or more rows of seats, he or she must not be in the front row of seats.

(4) If the passenger is at least 1 year old but under 16 years old, and is not exempt from wearing a seatbelt under rule 267:

(a) he or she must be restrained in a suitable approved child restraint that is properly adjusted and fastened, or

(b) he or she:

(i) must occupy a seating position that is fitted with a suitable seatbelt, and

(ii) must not occupy the same seating position as another passenger (whether or not the other passenger is exempt from wearing a seatbelt under rule 267), and

(iii) must wear the seatbelt properly adjusted and fastened.

(5) *****

<A name=pt.16-rule.266-sub.5-nt.1>Note. Rule 266 (5) of the Australian Road Rules</I> has not been reproduced in these Rules. The subrule has been left blank in order to preserve uniformity of numbering with the Australian Road Rules</I>.

(6) For this rule:

(a) an approved child restraint is available in the motor vehicle for a passenger if an approved child restraint is fitted in the vehicle and is not occupied by someone else under 16 years old, and

(b) (Repealed)

(c) an approved child restraint or seatbelt is suitable for a passenger if it is suitable for restraining, or to be worn by the passenger.

(6–1) This rule does not apply to the driver of a motor vehicle (other than a motor bike) who is the holder of a learner licence or a provisional P1 or P2 licence.

<A name=pt.16-rule.266-sub.61-nt.1>Note 1. Motor bike, motor vehicle, provisional P1 licence and provisional P2 licence are defined in the Dictionary, and learner licence is defined in the Act.

<A name=pt.16-rule.266-sub.61-nt.2>Note 2. Rule 267–1 provides for the use of seatbelts and other restraints by drivers of motor vehicles (other than motor bikes) who are holders of learner licences or provisional P1 or P2 licences and their passengers.

<A name=pt.16-rule.266-sub.61-nt.3>Note 3. This subrule is an additional NSW subrule. There is no corresponding subrule in rule 266 of the Australian Road Rules</I>.

(7) In this rule: approved child restraint means a child restraint approved by the Authority.

<A name=pt.16-rule.266-sub.7-nt.1>Note 1. Authority is defined in the Act.

<A name=pt.16-rule.266-sub.7-nt.2>Note 2. This definition is not uniform with the definition in rule 266 (7) of the Australian Road Rules</I>. However, the definition in the Australian Road Rules</I> allows another law of this jurisdiction to make provision for the approval of child restraints. Different definitions may apply in other Australian jurisdictions.


NSW legislation website (http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/viewtop/inforce/subordleg+179+2008+fn+0+N)

bblaze
8th July 2008, 05:29 PM
and I thought we had a post going about tales in a ute or panel van when we were about 17 ish, now theres gotta be some stories there
cheers
blaze

mcrover
8th July 2008, 09:25 PM
In my old AU Falcon ute (no passanger airbag) I had my daughter in the passanger seat on one occasion in her car seat and fastened to the propper child support supplied with the car.

Was pulled over for RBT and they never said a word about it so I thought.....it must be ok then but I wouldnt be doing it if I had a back seat.

The thing I found really funny was that when I got the AU, it had 2 ancorage points bolted in, 1 behind the passenger seat and 1 behind the drivers seat.

I wouldnt be in the car if my daughter was driving at 2 yo so I have no idea why you would need an ancourage point behind the drives seat :o

Here's the Vic way :D


Questions about child restraints : VicRoads (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/RoadSafety/SeatbeltsChildRestraints/ChildRestraints/Questions+about+child+restraints.htm#Front)

When can children sit in the front seat?

While it is legal it is not safe nor is it recommended. The back seat offers far greater protection in a crash than the front seat so it is recommended that you fill the back seat first.
If children are big enough to use a lap/sash seat belt, use the back seat first.
If in a van/utility, use a properly constructed seat with a child restraint if appropriate, or seat belt

Jamo
8th July 2008, 10:28 PM
I was told that a front passenger airbag can kill a small child if it deploys.

(That obviously wouldn't affect a child in a Sandman, where the srs is a fixed steel dashboard.)

abaddonxi
8th July 2008, 10:45 PM
I had a child restraint fitted to my F100, hmm, about fourteen years ago at an approved fitting station.

Think she was over 12 months when I bought the ute.

Cheers
Simon

CraigE
8th July 2008, 10:46 PM
Air bags are the main issue as they may suffocate generally a child under 12 due to their size, position of head related to the airbag deployment.
Obviously in a non air bag vehicle this is not relevant as long a s the seat belt fits properly. People go on about kids being in more danger ina car accident if they sit in the front. Bollocks. Have a look at the results of side intrusion accidents or rear ends.

I originally thought this was going to be a different topic. Had some nice warm thoughts back when I was 18 and my second car was a HQ Panel Van, Vinyl roof, 186 and three on the tree. Many great times in the PV. Many more in another mates HZ (bombed to the eyeballs, decked out back with bar and all), and another mates HJ. Plenty of time spent in the back of utes as well. Way too dangerous now we all realize.
:twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:

strange_rover1
9th July 2008, 12:07 AM
I agree with Craig, I think the 12 year old age limit is referring to the cars that have a passenger side airbag fitted. Not sure if it illegal for a kid under 12 to sit in the front of an airbag fitted vehicle just not advised to do so? I could be wrong though.
Shano

Phoenix
9th July 2008, 08:34 AM
I was of the belief that it was the airbag issue that precluded young kids in the front seat of vehicles. I've had my youngun in his car seat fitted into the front of my series 3 a couple of times. Not ideal, but it worked fine, and he was as safe as my wife and I in the same vehicle.

incisor
9th July 2008, 08:47 AM
according to the guy at qld transport, it was in place for all vehicles until recently when it was removed due to the number of country people with utes and vans complaining.

airbags didnt come into it, and still dont according to them, other than saying it is better to have them in a rear seat if you have one.

the bags were breaking kids necks and suffocating them according to the info i have read over the years...

it is all based on weight not age. at 26kg you can but them in a normal seat with a seat belt i believe.

Col.Coleman
9th July 2008, 09:12 AM
Yeah, Me too.
I thought it was going to be remember when we were kids and 5 accross the back seat, riding in the tray of the ute, and the family holiday where mum and dad sat in the front of the panelvan and 7 kids sat on a mattress in the back on the way to the footy or family holiday from Brissie to Cairns was the norm. Ahh the good old days. Yeah sure we lost a few, but the cotton wool mentality these days is sucking all the fun out of life. Anyway.....

My kids reguarly sit in the front of all my cars with exception of the subaru. This is because of the front passenger airbag. The other cars don't have them(or at least can't sit there when she is fitted:wasntme:). The sticker in the front of the subie says no kids under 12. This is because of the size of the children and when the airbag depoys there is a chance of the child being injured from the airbag. It is due to the child not having the amount of mass that the bag was designed to cushion(unless they eat McDonalds 24/7). Have heard all sorts of stories from decapitation to bruising.(Take your pick). Other than that, the rear is recommended as safer as in a frontal collision they are futher away from the point of impact. It's all down to luck in a side on.
In a 2t+ vehicle with a rigid chassis anything I manage to hit if I happen to stuff up has got to be alot bigger than us to reach us, baring side impact or rollover of course, and the shock wave with no crumple zones would be a pooftenth between the front and back. But the smile on my kids faces when they get to ride shotgun and the memory they take with them as they grow up is worth alot more than an extra 2%.
I come from riding bikes and drive with the attitude that everybody else is a tool and trying to kill me.

CC

Andy-M
9th July 2008, 10:09 AM
In Tas they adopted the standard Aust Road Rules, which most states now go by. In theory there should be very little difference between most states regarding seat belts laws.

Same as QLD, over the age of one can sit in the front if in a propper harness or booster seat. Age limits on front seats in passenger airbag vehicles are a guide only and not leagaly enforsable.

If I had an active child that likes to take seatbelts off in the back of the car, I would have no hesitation in taking the chance of placing them in the front. Should a crash take place an airbag injury would be better than flying through the windscreen.

Likewhat has been said before though, treat all other vehicles like they are being driven by tools, it will help lower your chances of a crash.

Just my thoughts.......Cheers Andy.

Utemad
9th July 2008, 10:57 AM
What is stopping you putting a wagon seat in the rear like a 5 or 6 seat Toyota Troopy?

I never new you couldn't seat a kid in the front. We did it all the time as kids. I just thought it was the airbag thing.

incisor
9th July 2008, 11:36 AM
there is an age limit on side facing seats i believe, cant recall the age tho, but it is 8 or 9 i think.

Utemad
9th July 2008, 11:57 AM
I mean the forward facing rear seat which is in the 5 and 6 seater. Not the side facing seats in the 11 seater.
Essentially making your panelvan into a two door wagon like a two door Disco1.

I assume you have already thought of this but dismissed it. Just wondering why. Would be easier than swapping vehicles especially since you have this one sorted.

incisor
9th July 2008, 01:20 PM
lets just say a higher authority has expressed a desire to implement a few changes... and i have to admit i would love to have an easy option for the grand kids to come camping etc with me.... but that said i am not happy as i waited a blood long time for this truck, but sometimes you just have to do the right thing.....

i am looking at a heap of different options.... getting things past engineering at an affordable price is a bit of a stuggle as well...

Sprint
9th July 2008, 03:01 PM
there is an age limit on side facing seats i believe, cant recall the age tho, but it is 8 or 9 i think.
not too sure about that in queensland, i know a few landcruiser troopcarriers are used for bush school bus duties in remote areas

incisor
9th July 2008, 03:11 PM
pretty sure it was mentioned when i was chatting with them yesterday

dobbo
9th July 2008, 03:37 PM
Tell me why a bus seat that sits in between the rear doors on a County could not be very easily adapted to sit legally in a panelvan? The van itself would require some slight mods but nothing more than an afternoon of sheet metal work I'd imagine.

I would like a lap sash seatbelt in the middle position of the back seat, then again my kids literally fight over the rear seat positions.