Range Rover Classic 4BD2T

[olyller]

I have an 85 USA spec Range Rover Classic.

I want to convert it to the Isuzu diesel engine for eventual dual/fuel Bio-WVO fuel system. Has anyone done or kno of someone whom has made this conversion.

What transmission and transfer box set-up was necessary? The truck is currently stock & automatic.

I have a LHD vehicle and have heard that this would be an issue.

Also, I want the Isuzu 4bdT2 because it is the Indirect Injection system as apposed to the Direct injection, where issues will develop over time with the rings and other engine internals with the WVO and combustion. With indirect injection, the injectors, precombustion chamber and other areas can be clean.

More importantly, I have read that the overall combustion in an indirect injection engine is more thorough.

What do you suggest?

What do you think?

BJ

[Bigbjorn]

Pre-chamber diesel engines are pre-historic. Even stick-in-the-mud Caterpillar got out of them many years ago when they made their push into being a major player in heavy trucks. Pre-chamber engines are popular in passenger cars because they are quieter at idle. Thay are hard starters when cold and usually require glow plugs for cold starts and may require a lengthy warm-up period in very cold conditions such as encountered almost everywhere in the USA.

[olyller]

OK B,

what about the use of WVO/SVO and its destruction of the rings and inner-cylinder destruction over time.

[Blknight.aus]

seconded, go the 1D varients that are direct injected they will run better on bio when its cold.

The big thing to watch when selecting your diesel for a Bio conversion is the injection pressure. Imho well made bio is at its limits for lubricity under pressure at about the 15-18K psi Injection range and goes down hill quickly as the quality drops off.

The injection range mentioned is within range of almost every comercially available diesel engine that doesnt feature unit injectors. Specific to landrover that covers the 2.25l series diesel (good luck finding one or making it satisfactorily push a rangie) and the tdi200/300 diesels and since they come in configurations in discoveries that mount autos that'd be the way Id go in your shoes.

the TDI is nicely tweakable to produce enough get up and go to keep you happy, admitedly it wont go as far as a tweaked 4bdT2 or even a 4BD1-T can but the tdi's can be pushed past both varients of the suzi in standard form.

As for the lubrication deal IMHO if you stick to the original OEM service intervals when the tdis came bout (5k miles or 8k Km) then you dont have to worry about it unless your using the crappest oil on the planet.

Hope that helps

[maca]

Cross Post:mad:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/59486-range-rover-classic-4bd2t.html

[Dougal]

Pre-chamber diesel engines are pre-historic. Even stick-in-the-mud Caterpillar got out of them many years ago when they made their push into being a major player in heavy trucks. Pre-chamber engines are popular in passenger cars because they are quieter at idle. Thay are hard starters when cold and usually require glow plugs for cold starts and may require a lengthy warm-up period in very cold conditions such as encountered almost everywhere in the USA.

The japanese had a resurgence in IDI diesels in the late 90's.
Isuzu went from the DI 2.8 diesel to the IDI 3.1 in the jackaroo/bighorn/trooper, replaced the 4BD1T in some markets with the 4BD2T. Until the more recent commonrail variants your mitsubishi, toyota, mazda, ford and nissan diesels were almost all indirect injection.

Why? Noise and startup emissions are the only ones I can think of. Isuzu got the efficiency of the 4BD2T within about 5% of the 4BD1T, the penalty with other engines is up to 20% more fuel consumption.

[Bigbjorn]

Pre-chamber diesel engines are pre-historic. Even stick-in-the-mud Caterpillar got out of them many years ago when they made their push into being a major player in heavy trucks. Pre-chamber engines are popular in passenger cars because they are quieter at idle. Thay are hard starters when cold and usually require glow plugs for cold starts and may require a lengthy warm-up period in very cold conditions such as encountered almost everywhere in the USA.

Might I add to the above, that pre-chamber engines use significantly more fuel.

[Dougal]

Might I add to the above, that pre-chamber engines use significantly more fuel.

The 4BD2t is the best I've seen figures for, it's only around 5% worse than the 4BD1T.

[mcrover]

If you want a reliable indirect diesel, an old Kubota 3 cyl will do the job, 25hp but will never let you down.:p

On a more serious note, I recon Blknight has it pretty straight up, if you want to keep the auto, go the 300Tdi.

[Blknight.aus]

nope sorry you have to have a deutz 2 stroke air cooled diesel...

those things NEVER stop. not real big tho but excelent un attended engines so long as theve got good oil good fuel and the ambient temps is below 85 degrees theyre good to go.

dont quite make 17 HP from the 2 cylinder ones tho.

the 4stroke 4 pots are good for up to about 85 tho.

[Bigbjorn]

The 4BD2t is the best I've seen figures for, it's only around 5% worse than the 4BD1T.

5% is a bit more than significant if you are quoting 1000 mile line haul express jobs or pulling six decks of Tobermoreys or stores in the Top End dirt. The first Cat 3406 in road trains was pre-chamber & was pulling cattle out of Cloncurry and the Gulf to Kidman's in the corners and the Cummins (Big Cam 400) engined gear was carrying extra fuel for the Cat engined Road Boss.

[olyller]

I know that my inquiry was Isuzu 4bd2t; but what about the Cummins 4bt engine and the RRC. Does anyone have experience with this engine? It is the the other variation that I am considering.

Bryan

[Dougal]

5% is a bit more than significant if you are quoting 1000 mile line haul express jobs or pulling six decks of Tobermoreys or stores in the Top End dirt. The first Cat 3406 in road trains was pre-chamber & was pulling cattle out of Cloncurry and the Gulf to Kidman's in the corners and the Cummins (Big Cam 400) engined gear was carrying extra fuel for the Cat engined Road Boss.

CAT do an engine similar size to the 4BD1T, that uses almost 25% more fuel.:D

It's really interesting that most of the newest commonrail diesels have only got about 2% better fuel economy than the 20+ year old 4BD1T. Sure they burn cleaner, meet emissions, have a wider power band and better power/weight ratio. But it's still only 2%.

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

nope sorry you have to have a deutz 2 stroke air cooled diesel...

those things NEVER stop. not real big tho but excelent un attended engines so long as theve got good oil good fuel and the ambient temps is below 85 degrees theyre good to go.

dont quite make 17 HP from the 2 cylinder ones tho.

the 4stroke 4 pots are good for up to about 85 tho.

Oh goodie!! A sale!! I have these in stock!!!! :D

[Bush65]

I know that my inquiry was Isuzu 4bd2t; but what about the Cummins 4bt engine and the RRC. Does anyone have experience with this engine? It is the the other variation that I am considering.

Bryan
Sorry no experience with the 4BT.

Isuzu trucks are very popular in Australia, and Land Rover Australia fitted the Isuzu 4BD1 for a few years when Land Rovers were assembled in Australia (following the Aus military requirement for a direct injection diesel). These are the reasons the 4BD1 have a following in Aus Land Rover circles.

There may be problems fitting a 4BD1-T or 4BD2-T to a left hand drive vehicle.

Look at this site Overview (http://www.isuzudieselswapper.com/index.html) for an auto gearbox option. The ZF auto as fitted to Range Rovers will not last behind a 4BD1 - has been tried here and the torsional vibrations kill them.

The Cummins 4BT will be easier to fit into a lh drive rangie. The other engine option is a Toyota 14BT or 15BT - they will be better suited to use in a LH drive vehicle (and are better engines than the 4BD1-T IMHO). But these (Cummins 4BT and toy 14BT, 15BT) are all direct injection.

[Bush65]

I just remembered reading some posts about a Cummins 4BT being fitted to a Land Rover in the USA.

Edit: Sorry my memory let me down. Should have been http://www.roverhybrids.com/

Hope this helps.