Defender 4bd1t

[jimbob]

Hi All, I am very new to Landrovers so was hopeing for some more advice. I am after a twin cab 130. So the options are obviously the tdi or td5 [or brand new but dont have the funds for that]. Some time down the track i want to convert the vehicle to wvo so that rules out the td5 [please correct me if i have any of this wrong]. So if i go with the tdi then i would be expecting reasnable ks on it already due to age and i would rather change to the 4bd1t than rebuild a tdi so my question is... Has this motor been put in:) a defender tdi 130 before and will it run on wvo? I know it has been put in V8 countrys but just not sure on the defas.

Thanks Jim.

[incisor]

there are a few posts on here about defender tdi -> 4bd1 conversions.

seems the biggy is getting the r380 gearbox to handle the isuzu.

i recall a post not to long agon where someone got around this with a custom clutch assembly.

a few searchs should reward you with some very usefull info..

[dobbo]

there are a few posts on here about defender tdi -> 4bd1 conversions.

seems the biggy is getting the r380 gearbox to handle the isuzu.

i recall a post not to long agon where someone got around this with a custom clutch assembly.

a few searchs should reward you with some very usefull info..


There seems to be a problem with any Land Rover gearbox long term behind a 4BD1. Predicting the inevitable demise of my box anytime over the next few years I have been researching alternatives. A suggestion I was told was a diesel 80 series Cruiser gearbox. It may require a few mods of the transfer and propshafts to replace my standard LT95.

[jimbob]

there are a few posts on here about defender tdi -> 4bd1 conversions.

seems the biggy is getting the r380 gearbox to handle the isuzu.

i recall a post not to long agon where someone got around this with a custom clutch assembly.

a few searchs should reward you with some very usefull info..

Thanks Incisor, The TDI i am looking at if for sale from Triumph Rover Spares in SA. Has any one had muck to do with them?

[incisor]

There seems to be a problem with any Land Rover gearbox long term behind a 4BD1. Predicting the inevitable demise of my box anytime over the next few years I have been researching alternatives. A suggestion I was told was a diesel 80 series Cruiser gearbox. It may require a few mods of the transfer and propshafts to replace my standard LT95.

what about an isuzu NPR box and a remote transfer? anyone done that you know of?

[Blknight.aus]

the TDI can be tweaked to equal the 4bd1t and then you can tweak the suzi

Both engines can handle WVO and bio. (with some minor mods to accomodate the eventual failure of seals, lines and filters)

you can rebuild the TDI with out needing to be a rocket surgeon ditto the 4bd1t.

the LT95 is the trans of choice for the Suzi especially if your going to take full advantage of what the 130 is capable of with the 4bd1t (think of it as a perentie 6x6 sans the extra axle and you'll get what I mean)

You'll get one with a TDI so that'll be cheap and the amount of effort and money you'll expend obtaining installing and getting approval for modding it all to take the suzi will pretty much buy you a replacement of or rebuild of the TDI and the gearbox thats behind it.

the other side of that is the TDI has an anticipated life where as most people regard the suzi as the engine that will be laying in the corroded out hulk of the landrover surrounded by the corpses of the cockroaches that survived the nuclear holocast waiting for someone to give it some diesel and a fresh battery so it can get on with shaking things to pieces again.

hope that helps.

[abaddonxi]

Maybe you should just buy this one -
Used LAND ROVER COUNTY Private Seller Cars For Sale - carsales.com.au (http://carsales.com.au/used-cars/private/LAND_ROVER/COUNTY/details.aspx?__sid=11B191AB9DAB&Cr=0&__Ns=pCar_PrivateSpecialFlag_Int32%7C1%7C%7CpCar_I mageCount_Int32%7C1%7C%7CpCar_LastModifiedDate_Dat eTime%7C1&State=All%20States&distance=25&silo=1003&seot=0&__Nne=20&Model=COUNTY&R=5606898&__N=4294965541+0+4294965486+834+285+257&Make=LAND%20ROVER&state_id=0&trecs=1)


Cheers
Simon

[dobbo]

what about an isuzu NPR box and a remote transfer? anyone done that you know of?


I think Bush65 has a setup similar to that, and a 6 speed box would be very nice

However

80 series cruisers are plentiful in wreckers and may be a cheaper option if it works.

[p38arover]

See here - mut be sold by 16th July:

Overlander 4WD :: View topic - 2001 Land Rover Defender 130 - dual cab ute, steel tray (http://forums.overlander.com.au/viewtopic.php't=55322&start=15)

[dobbo]

mentioned in this thread below


http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/56403-database-isuzu-engine-landrover-gearbox-combos-2.html

[Bigbjorn]

Maybe you should just buy this one -
Used LAND ROVER COUNTY Private Seller Cars For Sale - carsales.com.au (http://carsales.com.au/used-cars/private/LAND_ROVER/COUNTY/details.aspx?__sid=11B191AB9DAB&Cr=0&__Ns=pCar_PrivateSpecialFlag_Int32%7C1%7C%7CpCar_I mageCount_Int32%7C1%7C%7CpCar_LastModifiedDate_Dat eTime%7C1&State=All%20States&distance=25&silo=1003&seot=0&__Nne=20&Model=COUNTY&R=5606898&__N=4294965541+0+4294965486+834+285+257&Make=LAND%20ROVER&state_id=0&trecs=1)


Cheers
Simon

There is a typo in the price. The author has slipped an extra digit, a 2, in ahead of the 4.

[abaddonxi]

There is a typo in the price. The author has slipped an extra digit, a 2, in ahead of the 4.

It sounds stupidly expensive, but if you're looking at a 300tdi or newer, plus a 4bd1t conversion I reckon that's around the money you'd be spending.

Cheers
Simon

[jimbob]

OK so this country twin cab ute is 110 inches???? And the 130 is 127 inches then where would that length be lost? One of the main reasons i am going for the 130 is the size of the thing, so dont want to loose much cab or tray length. Any ideas where that 7 inches has been chopped from????

[Sleepy]

OK so this country twin cab ute is 110 inches???? And the 130 is 127 inches then where would that length be lost? One of the main reasons i am going for the 130 is the size of the thing, so dont want to loose much cab or tray length. Any ideas where that 7 inches has been chopped from????

wheelbase 110" vs 127"

[jimbob]

wheelbase 110" vs 127"

Sorry, yeah, i quess what i was getting at was, has it lost any cabin space or has it lost the tray length? It would be hard to tell i guess with out looking closely at this conversion. Does a country have mory leg room in the back than a 130 Defa???

[dobbo]

There is a typo in the price. The author has slipped an extra digit, a 2, in ahead of the 4.


Based on what?

Having seen the vehicle at Cooma and seeing the level of detail the conversion has been done to, I feel the price is still to high but not unjustified.

I wouldn't sell mine and I bet you wouldn't sell yours for redbook value? Why should this guy?

[jimbob]

Ok, So again i find my self in unfamiliar teritory. I have done all my research on defenders and know knothing about countrys. So what is the difference?




Ha Ha its an easy question to ask!!!!



Not so easy to answer.

[303gunner]

I have done all my research on defenders and know knothing about countrys. So what is the difference?

The spelling. They are COUNTY, not COUNTRY.

[JDNSW]

Ok, So again i find my self in unfamiliar teritory. I have done all my research on defenders and know knothing about countrys. So what is the difference?
........

The Landrover 110 was introduced in 1984 (and the 90 a year or so later, but since almost none have been sold here, no further notice will be taken of it). In Australia it came with only the V8 or the Isuzu 4BD1 diesel. A few years later the 130 (actually 127 wheelbase) was introduced, but they are quite rare. Before this there was a local variant the 120, which came only as the diesel cab/chassis.

At the same time as these the Perentie project manufactured somewhat modified 110s in 4x4 and 6x6 form (with 4BD1 and 4BD1T respectively). As an offshoot of this, a relatively small number of civilian 110 6x6s were sold, all were cab/chassis and fitted with the 4BD1T. They share the Perentie 6x6 drive train and suspension, but have the standard cab. Most were sold to mining companies etc and thrashed to death, and rarely come on the market.

Apart from the 6x6, the 110 was sold as full length hardtop, cab/chassis, possibly high capacity utility, although I can't remember seeing one, and probably most commonly, as a "County" trim five door wagon. In addition there was a small batch of dual cab 110 V8s made for the Australian Bicentennial Authority in 1987. Because the wagons were prominently labelled "County" on the doors, the name seems to be widely if incorrectly used to describe the coil spring Landrovers pre-Defender. ("County" was, and may still be, a term used by Landrover to describe their top trim level for Rangerovers, Series 3, 90/110 and Defender, but seems not to have been used in Australia to any extent except for pre-Defender 110s - but note that only the wagon (and the few 110 dual cabs) had this trim level)

As mentioned above, original engines were either the Isuzu or the V8. Gearboxes were the original Rangerover LT95 four speed and after 1985-6 (depends on engine) the LT85 five speed. Countys had a rear sway bar and Boge self levelling strut at the back. Airconditioning was optional, and replaced the under windscreen vents. All Countys were nine seat (except of course the dual cabs).

In 1990, with the introduction of the Discovery to Australia, the 110 and 130 were discontinued, to be re-introduced over a year later, by then being renamed "Landrover Defender" rather than simply "Landrover", to allow the Landrover name to be also used by the Discovery, and now fitted with the 200Tdi engine developed for the Discovery.

The cab in dual cab 110s and 130s is essentially the front part of a station wagon, so the foot room is identical. This applies as well to Defenders as to the earlier models. It also means that the difference between the 127 and 110 wheelbases is entirely in the tray. 110 dual cabs (either Defender or pre-Defender) are quite rare, and a number of them, including the one in question, are conversions of the wagon.

To summarise, the differences between the Defender and pre-Defender 110 and 130 are the results of a continuous development process, not any sudden change, and, for example, there will be less difference between, say a 1988 110 and a 1992 Defender than between that Defender and the current one.

Some of the changes from the earlier 110 that are considered retrograde include lighter CV joints (for uniformity with Discovery) and grease instead of oil lubricated wheel bearings (to stop leaky seals, but makes bearing failure more common and introduced drive flange to axle spline wear as a serious problem).

Hope this helps

John

[Bigbjorn]

Based on what?

Having seen the vehicle at Cooma and seeing the level of detail the conversion has been done to, I feel the price is still to high but not unjustified.

I wouldn't sell mine and I bet you wouldn't sell yours for redbook value? Why should this guy?

He has not added $20,000 of value. That has been the cost of his hobby which is almost never recoverable at resale time.

[Dougal]

It sounds stupidly expensive, but if you're looking at a 300tdi or newer, plus a 4bd1t conversion I reckon that's around the money you'd be spending.

Cheers
Simon

That's not a 4BD1T, that's a 4BD1 with a turbo added.
For that price you don't expect a kinked turbo inlet pipe that doesn't fit and a birdsnest of wires by the brake booster. It makes a buyer wonder what else doesn't fit properly?

[jimbob]

Maybe you should just buy this one -
Used LAND ROVER COUNTY Private Seller Cars For Sale - carsales.com.au (http://carsales.com.au/used-cars/private/LAND_ROVER/COUNTY/details.aspx?__sid=11B191AB9DAB&Cr=0&__Ns=pCar_PrivateSpecialFlag_Int32%7C1%7C%7CpCar_I mageCount_Int32%7C1%7C%7CpCar_LastModifiedDate_Dat eTime%7C1&State=All%20States&distance=25&silo=1003&seot=0&__Nne=20&Model=COUNTY&R=5606898&__N=4294965541+0+4294965486+834+285+257&Make=LAND%20ROVER&state_id=0&trecs=1)


Cheers
Simon

SOLD.... and got close to what he was asking.

[jimbob]

The Landrover 110 was introduced in 1984 (and the 90 a year or so later, but since almost none have been sold here, no further notice will be taken of it). In Australia it came with only the V8 or the Isuzu 4BD1 diesel. A few years later the 130 (actually 127 wheelbase) was introduced, but they are quite rare. Before this there was a local variant the 120, which came only as the diesel cab/chassis.

At the same time as these the Perentie project manufactured somewhat modified 110s in 4x4 and 6x6 form (with 4BD1 and 4BD1T respectively). As an offshoot of this, a relatively small number of civilian 110 6x6s were sold, all were cab/chassis and fitted with the 4BD1T. They share the Perentie 6x6 drive train and suspension, but have the standard cab. Most were sold to mining companies etc and thrashed to death, and rarely come on the market.

Apart from the 6x6, the 110 was sold as full length hardtop, cab/chassis, possibly high capacity utility, although I can't remember seeing one, and probably most commonly, as a "County" trim five door wagon. In addition there was a small batch of dual cab 110 V8s made for the Australian Bicentennial Authority in 1987. Because the wagons were prominently labelled "County" on the doors, the name seems to be widely if incorrectly used to describe the coil spring Landrovers pre-Defender. ("County" was, and may still be, a term used by Landrover to describe their top trim level for Rangerovers, Series 3, 90/110 and Defender, but seems not to have been used in Australia to any extent except for pre-Defender 110s - but note that only the wagon (and the few 110 dual cabs) had this trim level)

As mentioned above, original engines were either the Isuzu or the V8. Gearboxes were the original Rangerover LT95 four speed and after 1985-6 (depends on engine) the LT85 five speed. Countys had a rear sway bar and Boge self levelling strut at the back. Airconditioning was optional, and replaced the under windscreen vents. All Countys were nine seat (except of course the dual cabs).

In 1990, with the introduction of the Discovery to Australia, the 110 and 130 were discontinued, to be re-introduced over a year later, by then being renamed "Landrover Defender" rather than simply "Landrover", to allow the Landrover name to be also used by the Discovery, and now fitted with the 200Tdi engine developed for the Discovery.

The cab in dual cab 110s and 130s is essentially the front part of a station wagon, so the foot room is identical. This applies as well to Defenders as to the earlier models. It also means that the difference between the 127 and 110 wheelbases is entirely in the tray. 110 dual cabs (either Defender or pre-Defender) are quite rare, and a number of them, including the one in question, are conversions of the wagon.

To summarise, the differences between the Defender and pre-Defender 110 and 130 are the results of a continuous development process, not any sudden change, and, for example, there will be less difference between, say a 1988 110 and a 1992 Defender than between that Defender and the current one.

Some of the changes from the earlier 110 that are considered retrograde include lighter CV joints (for uniformity with Discovery) and grease instead of oil lubricated wheel bearings (to stop leaky seals, but makes bearing failure more common and introduced drive flange to axle spline wear as a serious problem).

Hope this helps

John

Fantastic stuff John thanks heaps. I could handle the loss of length in the tray just not in the cab. Vehicle gone though. But at least i will know for next time.

[abaddonxi]

I have a feeling that the foot room in a 130 rear seats is less than than of a 110. Don't know exactly since I've never sat in a 110.

130 rear seats - 300tdi - are 60/40 split, they sit on a box (not very convenient long storage) that is about 150mm tall. The base of the box sits 380mm back from the back base of the front seats.

Cheers
Simon

[clean32]

Thanks Incisor, The TDI i am looking at if for sale from Triumph Rover Spares in SA. Has any one had muck to do with them?

Personaly, i think thay are great. doint go any where else now.

[JDNSW]

I have a feeling that the foot room in a 130 rear seats is less than than of a 110. Don't know exactly since I've never sat in a 110.

130 rear seats - 300tdi - are 60/40 split, they sit on a box (not very convenient long storage) that is about 150mm tall. The base of the box sits 380mm back from the back base of the front seats.

Cheers
Simon

About twelve years ago we briefly considered buying a new 130, and as far as we could see the foot room was identical. However, I think the 2007+ 110s have the rear seat a couple of inches further back, giving a little more room. Also note that the width of the rear cushion was increased early in Defender production, probably at the same time as the split seat was introduced, and this makes the footroom appear less (this would apply to both 110 and 130)

John

[jimbob]

See here - mut be sold by 16th July:

Overlander 4WD :: View topic - 2001 Land Rover Defender 130 - dual cab ute, steel tray (http://forums.overlander.com.au/viewtopic.php't=55322&start=15)

Thanks i have purchased this one. I know i said i wanted a TDI but it was too good a deal to not get...:)