New Defender Strange Engine Noise - Paranoia?

[solmanic]

Following the saga being played out in this thread (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/59562-devastating-phone-call.html), I (and possibly several others) am now bordering on paranoid regarding every little noise, cough and sneeze my new Defender makes.

Since new my vehicle has had an issue where about 1-5 minutes after starting off (from cold) the engine revs harshly for an instant (with perhaps the slightest loss of power), then settles down to normal functioning. Like I said, this has been happening since it was new but I get the feeling it is happening just a bit more often now - every trip instead of every third trip.

Last month I had an engine warning light come on with the same revving but much greater loss of power. The vehicle went straight back to the dealer and they did a diagnostic check before reporting that the common rail system was stuffed (apparently a common fault - "common-fail" system :p). This was replaced along with the "entire fuel system" under warranty. I thought this odd behaviour after start-up may then go away since the event that caused me to take it into the dealer seemed just like a magnified version of the usual noise.

Alas no, this morning it happened again only this time with a slight misfire - but no engine warning light.

When they replaced the fuel system & common rail they checked and reported that all the injectors were fine and "no other damage had been done".

So gurus and mechanical sages - any ideas? :confused:

[dullbird]

solmanic

that is exactly what happened to us........

including the symptoms your are describing (not trying to scare you mate)

except we were told not to bother bringing the car in SEE HOW IT GOES!!!

now look at what strife we are in.

[PAT303]

I hope LR aren't having the same problems Toyota are having.It's the fuel that is causing headaches,the new breed of engines don't like it. Pat

[LROV90]

I am having very similar problems. The engine does a funny rev thing and often lacks power to the point of not being able to accelerate to 100k/h. If your in 5th at 80 and put you foot down it surges and carries on. Apparently the dealer has carried out the fuel control mod but this has done nothing. They have now emailed landrover for a response.

While I am whinging it has been back in about 4 times for strange noises coming from the transfer case. It also jumps out of diff lock. The first time it was in I asked them to at least drain the oil which they didn't do. I cracked it the other day and drained it myself and it is full of large brass chips - probably from the diff lock cones - useless!!!!

[dullbird]

I hope LR aren't having the same problems Toyota are having.It's the fuel that is causing headaches,the new breed of engines don't like it. Pat

pretty bad fuel problem if that is the case pat, as this problem is evident now in the uk and in ireland

[one_iota]

I hope it isn't the subject of the attached service bulletin issued by Land Rover yesterday relating to a knocking noise in the engine. SMS38792 "2.4 Puma engine knocking noise"

:eek:

[jimbo110]

Now everybody go out to your trucks and check the numbers....................














































My 300TDI is looking better all the time, first the TD5's now the Puma's :wasntme:

Some of you guys might be getting new engines to run in.......................again

[Blknight.aus]

why is it I think were going to be getting a reccurance of the ULSD causing injector spotting and regulator stickings....

[jimbo110]

why is it I think were going to be getting a reccurance of the ULSD causing injector spotting and regulator stickings....

http://www.4x4accessories.co.nz/images/moreyD.jpg

[one_iota]

Now everybody go out to your trucks and check the numbers....................














































My 300TDI is looking better all the time, first the TD5's now the Puma's :wasntme:

Some of you guys might be getting new engines to run in.......................again

Don't panic that would be hysteria as opposed "hysteresis" (to use their word):




hys·ter·e·sis https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/08/494.jpgAudio Help (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/audio.html)/ˌhɪshttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/08/494.jpgtəˈrihttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/08/494.jpgsɪs/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[his-tuh-ree-sis]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun Physics. 1.the lag in response exhibited by a body in reacting to changes in the forces, esp. magnetic forces, affecting it. Compare magnetic hysteresis (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=magnetic hysteresis). 2.the phenomenon exhibited by a system, often a ferromagnetic or imperfectly elastic material, in which the reaction of the system to changes is dependent upon its past reactions to change.
[Origin: 1795–1805; < Gk hystérésis deficiency, state of being behind or late, hence inferior, equiv. to hysteré-, var. s. of hystereǐn to come late, lag behind, v. deriv. of hýsteros coming behind + -sis -sis (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=-sis)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/08/494.jpg]



You've got to laugh!

[jimbo110]

Don't panic that would be hysteria as opposed "hysteresis" (to use their word):




You've got to laugh!

Lets hope you've got the later motor.........only 3 sleeps to go........................;)

[one_iota]

Lets hope you've got the later motor.........only 3 sleeps to go........................;)

:D

Well if it is then it's ok but if it isn't then that's ok too

I have had a 300Tdi for nearly 12 years and have learned to be philosophical inspite of nightmares about head gasket dramas, input shaft failures and timing belt failures not covered by warranty:

Zen and Land Rover ownership.

Now I'm only loosing sleep through excitement.;)

[defmec]

bring back the 200 tdi:D

[PAT303]

We have a cony at work that has had his new cruiser in for the same thing and our lowlux was doing it 2 weeks ago and our rodeo one week ago.The lux had a recall awhile back for throttle position sensor but for me it's the fuel.My unreliable defender has not missed a beat thou. Pat

[TimNZ]

My '08 110 hasn't given too much touble yet, apart from the new transfer box. Oh and its got to go in to have the hand brake looked at, it's a little bit off center and binds occasionaly, (only once per revolution):




https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/07/342.jpg




Oh, and the rear diff:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/07/343.jpg




And finally, the LR dealer in Perth called me today to inform me that the new bolt for the Turbo heat sheild that fell out has arrived on the courier from the eastern states today.

Apart from that its been perfect.

Tim

[dullbird]

I am having very similar problems. The engine does a funny rev thing and often lacks power to the point of not being able to accelerate to 100k/h. If your in 5th at 80 and put you foot down it surges and carries on. Apparently the dealer has carried out the fuel control mod but this has done nothing. They have now emailed landrover for a response.

While I am whinging it has been back in about 4 times for strange noises coming from the transfer case. It also jumps out of diff lock. The first time it was in I asked them to at least drain the oil which they didn't do. I cracked it the other day and drained it myself and it is full of large brass chips - probably from the diff lock cones - useless!!!!

there is also a case of certain chassi numbers being quarantined due to a bad batch of gearboxes mahn if you go into the pre sales checks there is something in there about it

[solmanic]

except we were told not to bother bringing the car in SEE HOW IT GOES!!!

now look at what strife we are in.

Well I'm glad I was able to get straight in to the dealer the moment the warning light came on - within 30 min. It just happened to be on my way to where I was going. Now at least they have checked the system over (apparently) and reported no damage as of a month ago. But the fact still remains that it has been doing this since about three weeks after delivery and it's definitely getting worse.


I am having very similar problems. The engine does a funny rev thing and often lacks power to the point of not being able to accelerate to 100k/h. If your in 5th at 80 and put you foot down it surges and carries on. Apparently the dealer has carried out the fuel control mod but this has done nothing. They have now emailed landrover for a response.

So have both you guys (LROV90 & MM/DB ) had this happening at any particular time during a driving cycle? My harsh revving occurrs only when cold and only once within the first 5min of driving then everything's fine. Never at any other time and, due to my distance from any motorways, only at low speed or stopped at lights.

Anyway, I've booked it in for its first 10,000km service and sent a long essay to the dealer on the subject. I figure I need to prepare them for a bit of work when it comes in since we're going away in September. I also thought it might help to gently remind them of the fact that I've already reported the problem and they have supposedly checked it out and replaced major components with no success.

[LROV90]

When I think about it, it does only occur when cold.

(Probably the cylinders scoring themselves due to lack of oil - LOL)

Maybe it really is time for a D3!

[boggo]

I hope LR aren't having the same problems Toyota are having.It's the fuel that is causing headaches,the new breed of engines don't like it. Pat

"In fact, not only is this new engine designed to be fully compliant with EU4 emissions legislation, a unique engine tune has been developed to allow it to tolerate the variable quality, high-sulphur fuels to be found across developing markets and is, of course, in keeping with the vehicle´s iconic status as a truly global product"

Land Rover blurb about the new engine

[solmanic]

Yes, I copied that into another thread somewhere. Makes you wonder whether failures due to poor fuel shouldn't automatically qualify as "not fit for purpose".

Incidentally (and I posted this on the other thread too) I checked the fuel filter/water separater this morning. I thought I would do this before starting and after having had the vehicle sitting there all night. Barely a couple of ml of water and hardly any crap in what I drained out. This is however only what has collected there since five weeks ago when Land Rover replaced the filter.

[muddymech]

sounds exactly like the problem we have, i would start car first thing in morning then on chsangeing gear swecond to third there would be the rattle and sometimes power loss, very occosianally would do it after work but alkways in the morning, i thought it was a fuel leak but been proved wrong very costly wrong, its water in the tank.




get it looked at and dont fall into the situation we are in, my joy has been added to by the 90 blowing its head gasket to tonight. so now we have gone from thre cars to two down to one, all part of owning landrovers unfortunatly.

[solmanic]

OK, I'm getting increasingly suspicious of Land Rover's claim that your's (and maybe my) problem is water in the fuel.

Five weeks ago the common rail PRV along with much of the fuel delivery system on my vehicle was replaced. The dealer checked the rest of the engine (including injectors) and reported that "no damage had been done". I just checked my fuel filter this morning and there is only a couple of ml of water and hardly any crud in it.

Yet this odd engine behaviour continues...


Surely there is something else awry here and maybe "water in the fuel" is just a convenient excuse. I think there is evidence mounting that points to a design fault and hopefully gets you and DB off the hook as far as Land Rover footing the bill for your repairs.

My car is going in for a pre-service inspection next Monday so they can work out what they have to do and how long it will take.

[muddymech]

its definatly water in the fuel, unless the dealer docked my fuel sample, but its how the water got there. a recent bullitin i read said the breather can get blocked and drawers water in though the fuel cap.
there is defiantly aproblem but getting alnd rover to accept it is beyond painfull and expensive.
plus having no car for a long time is upsetting.
takes away lot of joy of anew car, sorry to be depressing.

lets hoep landrover see the light and fix it all. its good everyone is so helpfull with what ever information they have, in teh long run i hoep it saves us all a lot of money and the cars all get fixed and running the way they should.

[boggo]

its definatly water in the fuel, unless the dealer docked my fuel sample, but its how the water got there. a recent bullitin i read said the breather can get blocked and drawers water in though the fuel cap.
there is defiantly aproblem but getting alnd rover to accept it is beyond painfull and expensive.
plus having no car for a long time is upsetting.
takes away lot of joy of anew car, sorry to be depressing.

lets hoep landrover see the light and fix it all. its good everyone is so helpfull with what ever information they have, in teh long run i hoep it saves us all a lot of money and the cars all get fixed and running the way they should.

No wonder Land Rover develops such bad reputations. All cars break down and have problems, but it's the dealers response to these that makes the difference, I reckon. My brothers two year old Subaru outback is having problems, goes into the dealer, new radiator, new auto = problems fixed and a happy customer singing the praises of their product. Land Rover refusing to fix a problem as simple as a blocked breather, or faulty sensors for example, leads them to be branded as unreliable heaps!(not by me)
Makes you wonder, wathching any thread about the new fenders with interest................:soapbox:,I'll hop off now

[solmanic]

So far I count the following people who have either had, or reported similar problems...

DB/MM (Sydney)
Solmanic(me) (Brisbane)
LROV90 (Melbourne)

and on the Defender2 forum...

Andrew Klimacki (Ireland)
Tony Hillerby (UK)
Nidge (Ireland)
Daz110 (UK)
Jas (UK)
netbotigger (UK)

Now this is just after a trawl on TWO forums. Some of these people have already had the common rail PRV replaced (me included) and others have had the fuel tank breather relocated either themselves or by the dealer.

If ALL the reports were coming from the one area then poor fuel would seem likely, but with a spread of complaints from all over the world you would have to suspect the problem lies with the vehicle.

[Aaron]

Have you checked to see if all those countries have the same spec fuels?

[kenleyfred]

We are expecting delivery mid to end August of our new Defender and I was in Land Rover ( Brisbane ) this morning querying a few things and at the service department I specifically bought this up. At first it was denied and only later did they acknowledge that they have had one vehicle with engine problems caused by water in the fuel. They said this person had picked up dud fuel on a trip back from Bundaberg.
As far as getting the breather re positioned and water ingress through the fuel cap they new nothing of this.
Getting very excited about the new Defender but also nervous reading reports like this.
Cheers
Kenley

[one_iota]

I'm picking up mine tomorrow and two weeks ago I sent a list of items that I wanted some response on.

Included in this was the breather location issue.

The response back from the dealer was bland but reassured me that they were aware of the issues raised and would be attending to them.

I'll have a look tomorrow night and let you know if the breather location has in fact been attended to.

[dullbird]

I'm picking up mine tomorrow and two weeks ago I sent a list of items that I wanted some response on.

Included in this was the breather location issue.

The response back from the dealer was bland but reassured me that they were aware of the issues raised and would be attending to them.

I'll have a look tomorrow night and let you know if the breather location has in fact been attended to.


to be honest mahn......your chassi number should be over the number that the breather modification comes as standard...i.e would be done of the production line

saw a 130 in the dealer looked new off the boat the other day and that breater had been moved and tucked up, i would still check but you should have no worries:)

[one_iota]

to be honest mahn......your chassi number should be over the number that the breather modification comes as standard...i.e would be done of the production line

saw a 130 in the dealer looked new off the boat the other day and that breater had been moved and tucked up, i would still check but you should have no worries:)

Hi Louise,

I suffer from a healthy scepticism.

I was told that mine will be a 2009 build date....interesting concept considering that my calender tells me otherwise.

I will post a full report for the benefit of those who are about to receive or order theirs. After all as this place has demonstrated we should be well informed even if it is unfortunately at some pain for the pathfinders. Hang in there....maybe there is Karma :D

[muddymech]

Hi Louise,

I suffer from a healthy scepticism.

I was told that mine will be a 2009 build date....interesting concept considering that my calender tells me otherwise.

I will post a full report for the benefit of those who are about to receive or order theirs. After all as this place has demonstrated we should be well informed even if it is unfortunately at some pain for the pathfinders. Hang in there....maybe there is Karma :D


b it on the early side but manufactures normally start the next year buikld spec in sep.

[PAT303]

I find it hard to believe that water in the fuel is the problem.After ten years I have only got water in my fuel twice so I can't believe you all have somehow got water in there at the same time.Toyota are having similar problems in some of their engines but the problem lies in the fact it is so random.For me it is the blend of the fuel as all these engines are made to pass polution standards first so they are very picky as to what they like.Remember we have only just got motors here that have been used in europe for years because they wouldn't run on our fuel. Pat

[dullbird]

I find it hard to believe that water in the fuel is the problem.After ten years I have only got water in my fuel twice so
I can't believe you all have somehow got water in there at the same time.Toyota are having similar problems in some of their engines but the problem lies in the fact it is so random.
For me it is the blend of the fuel as all these engines are made to pass polution standards first so they are very picky as to what they like.Remember we have only just got motors here that have been used in europe for years because they wouldn't run on our fuel. Pat


and as been stated by landrover these engines are designed to take a variety of fuels to deal with other countries where fuels are of far less quality.....than europe and other well developed countries...

and as for your quotes above we have a fuel anlyasis report saying that IT IS WATER IN THE FUEL and quite a large amount.......and not just water bacterial growth!!

so for our case pat i think your fuel blend idea is not the case here

[one_iota]

I know that we Defender people come here for specific info but we are not alone:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-zone/55878-water-diesel.html


That's the problem with silos :twisted:

I see this as a fundamental engineering issue (Using Risk Management techniques).

The risk is that water in fuel will (to use Solmanic's terminology) result in a "common fail" situation. This is a risk with severe consequences. The likelihood of this happening given the fact that the Defender is likley to be used in adverse conditions is also high. This is a "red zone" situation!

So look at the the risks and the appropriate responses

Risk: Breather location results in water ingress.
Response: relocate

Risk: Water in fuel supply
Response:Separate water from fuel by way of Filter

Risk: Water enters fuel delivery system.
Response: Detect by means of technology or observation.

Risk: Water is detected but not easily dealt with.
Response: Locate filter so that water can be removed easily.

This is crude but I hope that my point is made.

I think that the bean counters and the engineers have failed.

The design needs an holistic review...just relocating the breather is a knee jerk solution that just deals with one factor.

[solmanic]

The bottom line is that in a market where sales numbers are already under pressure from rising fuel prices, the last thing Land Rover would want is their new flagship vehicle being labelled as too delicate for work in the real world! Poor response to these problems for one or more of us (customers) is going to result in us (the customers) rubbishing their product in public, no matter how fanatical we may be about the marque.

As boggo said, Land Rover's response will determine whether this problem becomes a stain on their reputation.

[TimNZ]

I

Risk: Water is detected but not easily dealt with.
Response: Locate filter so that water can be removed easily.



I went to change the fuel filter on my 110 last night because paranoia has started to get the better of me. I scoured through the owners manual looking for any special instructions on changing the fuel filter, nothing. OK then, log onto the LR GTR website ( http://www.landrovertechinfo.com/extlrprod/market.jsp ) and give them $14USD and discover that it is necessary to bleed the low pressure fuel system using a special tool in order to not only change the filter, but to also simply drain any water also. Great.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/1613.jpg

Why is it that in order to carry out a relativley simple task it is necessary to have a LR special tool?? Couldn't they have simply fitted a hand pump in the vehicle like every other diesel engined vehicle I've ever owned????

Tim

[PAT303]

How come there isn't broken down vehicles everywhere?.I cleaned out the water trap in my defender a week ago,first time in six months and there was hardly a drop.It can't all be down to water.As for the LR statement about being able to go everywhere if they made it for that why use an engine that has more electrics than Dick Smith?.How is a farmer or bush dweller going to get any modern diesel going?.Most dealer mechanics struggle.That line about fuel tolerance is BS.You don't get V8 power out of a sub 4ltr TD with ''fuel tolerance''.As I also said Toyota are having the same problem.That's alot of water. Pat

[one_iota]

The bottom line is that in a market where sales numbers are already under pressure from rising fuel prices, the last thing Land Rover would want is their new flagship vehicle being labelled as too delicate for work in the real world! Poor response to these problems for one or more of us (customers) is going to result in us (the customers) rubbishing their product in public, no matter how fanatical we may be about the marque.

As boggo said, Land Rover's response will determine whether this problem becomes a stain on their reputation.


Yes I forgot to add the spin merchants to the three amigos..Engineers, Bean Counters and Marketeers. The organisation needs leadership to justify the rhetoric..will Tata do this???

No more or less than Leyland, BMW, or Ford I suspect.

True customer focus is required...we are the reason they exist so let's apply pressure.

[dullbird]

How come there isn't broken down vehicles everywhere?.I cleaned out the water trap in my defender a week ago,first time in six months and there was hardly a drop.It can't all be down to water.As for the LR statement about being able to go everywhere if they made it for that why use an engine that has more electrics than Dick Smith?.How is a farmer or bush dweller going to get any modern diesel going?.Most dealer mechanics struggle.That line about fuel tolerance is BS.You don't get V8 power out of a sub 4ltr TD with ''fuel tolerance''.As I also said Toyota are having the same problem.That's alot of water. Pat

well like i said pat and you can keep dressing it up with toyota all you like i have paper work that says so.

and the point that you made in regards to why aren't they dropping down every where, the problem yes is more evident in the uk, australia simply doesn't have the same volume of cars as they do so of course the problem isnt going to be more evident.

why does ever car have to show up with the problem?

there are lots of uncontrollable factors. where you drive your car? is it parked inside or outside? do you live in a dusty, muddy, or wet part of the country? i could go on!! all of which would have bearing on whether the problem may or may not arise

[PAT303]

Dullbird my defender has lived in Sydney,Hunter valley and Kal and has never been garaged ever.I am a fitter and now a diesel mechanic and run my own shop servicing light vehicles and plant vehicles.I am open minded towards all faults because one problem can be masking another which is my experience.Every day I looked after machines that operate in a salt water enviroment were the salt in the water is 6 times sea water in amount and water in the fuel is not an issue.The reason I keep bringing up Toyota is they keep giving Toyota drivers the same answer ''water in the fuel''.As I said,there is NO vehicle that is a work,bush vehicle.They don't make Tdi's because they can't pass polution rules,Diesel's can't pass the law's and get the power without being fragile.That is the way the world is. Pat

[dullbird]

Dullbird my defender has lived in Sydney,Hunter valley and Kal and has never been garaged ever.I am a fitter and now a diesel mechanic and run my own shop servicing light vehicles and plant vehicles.I am open minded towards all faults because one problem can be masking another which is my experience.Every day I looked after machines that operate in a salt water enviroment were the salt in the water is 6 times sea water in amount and water in the fuel is not an issue.The reason I keep bringing up Toyota is they keep giving Toyota drivers the same answer ''water in the fuel''.As I said,there is NO vehicle that is a work,bush vehicle.They don't make Tdi's because they can't pass polution rules,Diesel's can't pass the law's and get the power without being fragile.That is the way the world is. Pat

ok pat i'm getting a little lost here, are you suggesting that the water in our fuel tank is not what has damaged the car!!

[PAT303]

No what I am saying is you have to be opened minded about problems.The drama's people are having can't all be from water.It is very easy to focus on one thing but for me that's wrong.If I was you I would look up the ford transit and see if the same problems are there.Look back at the earlier post's''it mostly happens when first starting off'' What are you saying,the water only gives problems when first starting in the morning and then goes away??.Like I said it could be masking another problem,and as I also said you can't be all getting water all the time and the line about the breather blocking up and water coming throught the cap,are you telling me alot(litres) of water was sucked through the cap.I don't think so. Pat

[dullbird]

No what I am saying is you have to be opened minded about problems.The drama's people are having can't all be from water.It is very easy to focus on one thing but for me that's wrong.If I was you I would look up the ford transit and see if the same problems are there.Look back at the earlier post's''it mostly happens when first starting off'' What are you saying,the water only gives problems when first starting in the morning and then goes away??.Like I said it could be masking another problem,and as I also said you can't be all getting water all the time and the line about the breather blocking up and water coming throught the cap,are you telling me alot(litres) of water was sucked through the cap.I don't think so. Pat

we dont know exactly how much water got through we were just told alot!
also un beknown to some the td5 is situated in the same place as the new 110 except the new 110 doesn't have a one way valve like the td5 it breaths both ways (apparently its called a roll over valve or something)....is situated directly ablove the back wheel that catches the spray from the rear wheel.
the water in the tank gets pumped through pressurizes the rail...and forcing a valve open which in turn weekens the spring that returns the valve (think i got that right) but i can copy it straight off the service message from if you want it word for word
is it coincidence that a few vehicle have been put throught warranty for this valve problem? as there was a bulletin for the valve problem long before there was a serivce message for the breather

i hear what your saying but at the end of the day the fuel came from a BIG brand company which have had no reports of bad fuel

and is it possible that the cap could of pulled a few litres in maybe? maybe not? who is to know but what i do know is the car has had more than 6 months to collect that water to the point that it has now made a difference and done some damage....as the symptoms and the problems including limp mode and an eninge light first started at the beginning of feburary

and i also know that we had the heighest rain fall in feb enough that the roof top tent leaked really badly (which is has never done) as the car is permantly parked out side. coincidence maybe?

i also know that a car in the uk had almost a 50/50 mix in his tank when his car came to a sudden holt..

i also know that landrover as standard now have moved the breather to the new location of all the new defenders coming off the line..coincidence maybe?

i will certainly keep an open mind once my car has been fixed and my breather has been relocated should it ever happen again.
the car is also being fitted with a filter and a glass bowl so we can also visually see

[PAT303]

I would look up the transit side and see if it is a LR fitment thing or a motor problem.I can't see 30+ litres of water going through the breather or the cap.It's 9.30 here so it's 11.30 over there,get some sleep. Pat

[dullbird]

I would look up the transit side and see if it is a LR fitment thing or a motor problem.I can't see 30+ litres of water going through the breather or the cap.It's 9.30 here so it's 11.30 over there,get some sleep. Pat

yes i'm going....to bed that is:D

i never said my car had 30 litres of water in it...i was just told alot of water..

like i said i hear what your saying, but now i'm asking you to also keep an open mind...becasue just becasue one person says its not possible or unlikely doesn't mean it hasn't happened..

as we have all experienced somewhere in life stranger things in life do happen

i suppose only time will tell!!

[CraigE]

Hey DB, look at it this way if it is something else, you would have to be definately covered by warranty.
I think LR are playing games with you and just trying to get out of repairs they have carried out for the rest of the world under warranty. Nothing new, there are many times recalls or repairs hav been done on the TD5 in Britain but not Australia.
They just take a gamble people will not push the issue or sue.
Being a new car your issues are not good or appropriate.
As said water should not destroy the system it should just need a good clean out. I have had to do this myself to a couple of diesels including my old Disco tdi when I got a contaminated batch of fuel.
Either way it should be LRs problem. I can not believe they dont have a water sensor on it. Their own filters tout being a water seperator, so back to them again.
Any way Good Luck.
:(:(

[solmanic]

Now that this thread is out of the sin-bin, I think we should still be working on this issue together...

My vehicle has gone into the dealer for its first service and I have pointedly asked them to investigate this problem. I have mentioned a lot of the information on this and the Defender2 forum where there have been reports of water in fuel etc. However I have been careful to point out that my revving/power loss when cold problem has been there since just after I took delivery of the car and it remains even after they did the Common Rail PRV replacement.


Like I said it could be masking another problem,and as I also said you can't be all getting water all the time

My thoughts exactly...

This has to be something else since it happens all the time. My (uneducated) suspicions are that there is a condensation issue in the fuel lines. The behaviour we are reporting seems consistent with water being drawn in with the fuel but I can't think why else it would only happen after the vehicle has been stationery for several hours. We need to focus on how cold starting may be a factor.

It's quite possible that some of the people reporting this issue have had bad fuel - but they would be the ones who had their vehicle actually stop working altogether. Our cars seem to be running generally fine!

[solmanic]

Well I have just had a call from my dealer to report on the work they are doing, in particular their diagnosis on this engine revving/power loss issue...

Nothing, no problem, no fault codes, nothing wrong at all! They couldn't even replicate the problem after two morning cold-start test drives :(. This is a problem that has been happening every time for me for at least the last couple of months and perhaps 1 in 3 times since new.

Their advice - "sorry but we couldn't find anything - you'll just have to keep monitoring it". :glare:

When I pick it up this arvo I'll see how they got on with the rest of my list of fixes and report back...

[solmanic]

OK - here's a summary of what they did and didn't do during this visit.....

Sump pan - replaced under warranty. It is now a scheduled service item so others take note and see that it is done.:BigThumb:

Fuel tank breather - not relocated. The dealer is adamant that they are unaware of any service bulletin to do this. They have however asked me to email them any info I have from elsewhere so they can look into it.:thumbsdown:

Engine problem - as I mentioned, they couldn't detect any problem, so nothing has been done. I guess I'll know tomorrow morning whether it's still doing it or not.:thumbsdown:

Now just for everybody's interest, here are some other items I got them to look at so you can see what their hit and miss ratio is like....

Water leak under LH side of windscreen panel - nothing. They did a leak test and said nothing came thorugh. This is odd because when I noticed the drip off the bottom of the dash in the passenger side footwell I looke up and could actually see the water seeping through!:thumbsdown:

Squeaky clutch and brake pedals - trivial I know, but they fixed them.:BigThumb:

Rear passenger door hard to close - fixed!:BigThumb:

Missing trim rivet cap in cargo area - fixed:BigThumb:

Rear seat support bracket incorrectly positioned - they are adamant that because the vehicle passed ADR inspection like this they can't touch it! (at least not without a mountain of paperwork) In any case, the rear seat has actually started sagging slightly so pretty soon it will be sitting on the support bracket anyway so I guess they figure they will get out of having to do anything.:thumbsdown:

Roof gutters misaligned - there has been much talk on the Defender2 forum about this. They checked it against a couple of other Defenders and reported that "they are all like this". Funny, I don't recall my Td5 being this crooked - oh well, as long as it doesn't leak..... oh hang on, it does!:blink:

All in all, it is only the engine revving issue which still has me worried. I will keep an eye on it but if anyone else has the same thing happening it would be good to know. BTW, is your vehicle still doing it DB & MM?

[dmdigital]

Do you have a VIN range for the sump replacement?

I suspect this is for the 07 and early 08 builds but I wonder where my sits:confused:

[dullbird]

OK - here's a summary of what they did and didn't do during this visit.....

Sump pan - replaced under warranty. It is now a scheduled service item so others take note and see that it is done.:BigThumb:

Fuel tank breather - not relocated.
The dealer is adamant that they are unaware of any service bulletin to do this. They have however asked me to email them any info I have from elsewhere so they can look into it.:thumbsdown:Its not a service bulletin its a SSM (special service message SSM#37380


Engine problem - as I mentioned, they couldn't detect any problem, so nothing has been done. I guess I'll know tomorrow morning whether it's still doing it or not.:thumbsdown:do you garage your car over night? becasue they may over night! hence the car not getting as cold for your cold start in the morning and them not veing able to replicate it, just a thought
Now just for everybody's interest, here are some other items I got them to look at so you can see what their hit and miss ratio is like....

Water leak under LH side of windscreen panel - nothing. They did a leak test and said nothing came thorugh. This is odd because when I noticed the drip off the bottom of the dash in the passenger side footwell I looke up and could actually see the water seeping through!:thumbsdown:

Squeaky clutch and brake pedals - trivial I know, but they fixed them.:BigThumb:

Rear passenger door hard to close - fixed!:BigThumb:

Missing trim rivet cap in cargo area - fixed:BigThumb:

Rear seat support bracket incorrectly positioned - they are adamant that because the vehicle passed ADR inspection like this they can't touch it! (at least not without a mountain of paperwork) In any case, the rear seat has actually started sagging slightly so pretty soon it will be sitting on the support bracket anyway so I guess they figure they will get out of having to do anything.:thumbsdown:

Roof gutters misaligned - there has been much talk on the Defender2 forum about this. They checked it against a couple of other Defenders and reported that "they are all like this". Funny, I don't recall my Td5 being this crooked - oh well, as long as it doesn't leak..... oh hang on, it does!:blink:


All in all, it is only the engine revving issue which still has me worried. I will keep an eye on it but if anyone else has the same thing happening it would be good to know. BTW, is your vehicle still doing it DB & MM?

all symptoms on the car gone as far as i'm aware....only problem i can see at the moment is the car is smoking a bit (grey smoke) when the car is under load which it never did before the problem

[Aaron]

:

Missing trim rivet cap in cargo area - fixed:BigThumb:



Its little things like this that makes me pleased to have got my car off you, and would buy another of you in the future!

[solmanic]

Do you have a VIN range for the sump replacement?

I suspect this is for the 07 and early 08 builds but I wonder where my sits:confused:

I got the feeling it doesn't matter - just that if your's has the "old" sump they will happily swap it over for a new one when they dump the oil out.


do you garage your car over night? becasue they may over night! hence the car not getting as cold for your cold start in the morning and them not veing able to replicate it, just a thought


No, it's in a car port but I did think of that. I don't think it was inside at the dealers since there was water marking from the rain we had the other night. If it keeps happening I will make sure to tell them to leave it outside overnight before they test it.



Its little things like this that makes me pleased to have got my car off you, and would buy another of you in the future!

Is that a subtle hint? If so, I'll make sure to invite you to my funeral so you can have first dibs on it :p. That is if I'm not buried in it.;)

[dmdigital]

Thanks! Have you got a pic of the new sump so I can compare it to mine?

[solmanic]

This is someone else's, but you can clearly see the depression in the side to allow for the front prop shaft CV to push up into...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://imageshack.us)

....and I seriously doubt that the photo was taken in 2003.

[solmanic]

Upon noticing that this thread by DB (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/59562-devastating-phone-call-15.html#post924244) has been resurrected, I thought I should post a follow up to my own saga...

Took the Defender in for its 20,000km service a few weeks ago and reminded the dealer that the peculiar noise after cold start-up was still not resolved. Through summer (as I suspected) the issue has been absent, only occurring slightly perhaps once every two weeks or so.

This time the dealer said they found a fault code logged and it was a faulty EGR. I have read about people having issues with these on the Defender2 forum, so that doesn't surprise me at all.

The EGR is due to be replaced sometime soon. I'll keep you updated.